Messi

[Babr]

sorry but fuck the world cup...seriously...world cup happens every 4 years...Messi is week in week out the best player in the world. No one can touch Messi, no one comes close to Messi, with or without world cup. It really shouldn't matter whether a player is the best player in the world at a tournament that happens every 4 years. And ffs, France made it to the WC Final in 98 basically without Zidane(didn't play against Paraguay, against Italy was 0-0 and penalty kicks, against Croatia basically nothing). I don't think Argentina would even get into the second round of a tournament without Messi. So the comparison is ridiculous.

Also Maradona played in a different era, were tactics didn't matter as much as they do now and players played much more on national team level so there was some cohesion. So really...it's like saying Goodfellas isn't as good a movie as Dancing with the Wolves because Dancing with the Wolves won Oscars.

And Ronaldinho didn't pick up an injury...he didn't care anymore about football.

that is ur opinion and u have right to yours ! but for me he will never be in same category of diego or zidane ( i never mentionned zidane in 98! did i ? i said zidane in 2006) if he doesnt win world cup! what you mean fuck the world cup?!
btw : i didnt say ronaldinho was victim of injury i mean you dont know what happen to a player as injury or lack of mitivation can be example ( case of ronaldnho as you said )

 

[kasra1930]

View attachment 28269



"یک روز که بازی او را دیدم، او پا به توپ با سرعت کامل و 100 درصد می دوید، نمی دانم چند بار توپ را لمس کرد شاید 5 یا 6 بار، اما توپ به پای او چسبیده بود، این کار عملا غیر ممکنه" -رائول گنزالس بلانکو
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"من فکر می کنم وقتی مسی توپ را لمس می کند، همه چیز طلایی میشود، نمی توان این حقیقت را انکار کرد که بازی او زیبا و دیدنی است" -کـلارنس سیـدرف


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"مسی توقف نـاپذیـره، او تنها بازیکن دنیـاست که می تواند تغییر مسیر را با چنین سرعتی انجام دهـد... او همانند پلی استیشن عمل می کند" - آرسن ونــگر



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"مسی تکِ و همه دارن در مورد مقایسه اون با مارادونا و پله صحبت می کنن، اگر او به همین ترتیب ادامه دهد، محتملا بزرگترین بازیکنی خواهد بود که تا بحـال دیده شده" - سر بابی چارلتون


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"توی پلی استیشنم، با مسی هر کار که دلم بخواهد انجام میدهم، اما او در واقعیت از این هم بهتر است" - ویـن رونــی


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"کاری که لئو با توپ انجـام میـده شگفت انگیزه، تا حدی که وقتی با او بازی می کنم همیشه باید مراقب باشم تا نـایستم و حرکات او را تمـاشا کنـم ! " - تیری آنـــری


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"بهترین راه برای توقف مسی اینه که 11 نفره باشید و شما با دونفر اونو تحت فشار قرار بدید، یکی با او باشه و دیگری کمک کنه، اما اگه 10 نفره باشید تقریبا هیچ شانسی برای توقف او ندارید" - خوزه مورینــیو

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"هیچ کس در 19 سالگی تا این حد فوق العاده نبوده، نه مارادونا و نه پله" -کارل هایس رومینیگه

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"بهترین؟ مســی" - مارچلو لیپـی

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"هیچ کس مثل لئو نیست، امیـدوارم مارادونا مرا ببخشد، اما فکر می کنم گل لئو بهتر بود (اشاره به گل مسی به ختافه) " - دکو

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"مسی همیشه سایر بازیکنان رو در حرکاتش شرکت میده، انجام یک و دو برای ایجاد فضا و غلبه بر بازیکن حریف، او در این کار متبحرِ، مارک کردن او بسیار مشکلِ، علاوه بر خودش باید مراقب بازیکنان اطراف او هم باشید" - مارسل دزایی

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"مسی از یک سیاره دیگه است" - آرین روبن

"رونالدینیو بهتر از کریس رونالدوست، اما هیچ کدام مثل مسی نیستند" -آنتونیو کاسانو

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"بازی مسی رو نمی توان توصیف کرد، فقط باید دید، باید دیـد تا باور کـرد" -پپ گواردیولا

I have to answer to carl heinz ruminigee:
1) hichkass dar 19 saleghi oonghadr movafagh naboodeh.this answer is wrong, there is one player who was more succesful than messi at age of 19,and he was EDSON ARANTES DONACIMENTO his nickname pele,he was elected as a best player in south america and world cup in 1958,at age of 17,yes he was just 17 years old,he scored twice in final game against sweden,in world cup and humiliated sweden national team in front of 50,000 spectator in stockholm....Nils Niedholm,the great all time striker of sweden national team who scored the first goal of the match,confessed that pele humiliated swedish nation after his second goal in minute 89...(brasil won 5-2 and pele scored twice)
2)when you discuss about the ability of a player in the field you have to consider his success not only at the club level , but also at the national team and world cup.level..pele,maradona and sivori,platini,cruyeff were all succesful at their national team and club team but unfortunately,this guy has been very succesful at his club level,but not much at world cup or national level.....

 

[Mahdi]

that is ur opinion and u have right to yours ! but for me he will never be in same category of diego or zidane ( i never mentionned zidane in 98! did i ? i said zidane in 2006) if he doesnt win world cup! what you mean fuck the world cup?!

Zidane in 2006? Really? Zidane in 2006 barely made it out of the group stages with France. Then he had a good second half against Spain and a brilliant game against Brazil. But still, France had a defense, France had a midfield, France had an attack.
And with fuck the world cup I mean exactly that! A world cup says nothing about the consistency and greatness of a player. A world cup happens every 4 years and then you need more luck than anything else. Toto Schillachi did great at a World Cup. Who cares though?

 

[R.BAGGIO]

This is a different era. I really don't think it's relevant if he wins a world cup or not. He is the greatest player in the world by far and has been for the past 3 years. His form at Barcelona is simply unbelievable and he scores important goals in big games, he makes his teammates better, he comes back and defends when he has to, he is humble, doesn't talk shit and does not dive. He is the greatest player that I've ever seen play.

If we want to go with the opposite argument, then David Villa is a better player than Messi. He has played real well in Barcelona and he was the best player for Spain in the WC and the Euros.

We all know that the champions league is the most elite showcase of football in the world and what they play in the CL is on a whole other level compared to the world cup. The argument you guys make would be valid 20 or 30 years ago but this is a whole new generation and club football has surpassed the national game by far and no sane person would argue that the level of football played in the world cup even by the best of teams is superior to the level of football played in the CL.

Nowadays it's much more about the club game. It's like say if Jordan never won an Olympic gold in basketball then he would not be the best player ever. Football is at a similar stage now. The international game is inferior to European club football and that's the truth.

 

[Mahdi]

This is a different era. I really don't think it's relevant if he wins a world cup or not. He is the greatest player in the world by far and has been for the past 3 years. His form at Barcelona is simply unbelievable and he scores important goals in big games, he makes his teammates better, he comes back and defends when he has to, he is humble, doesn't talk shit and does not dive. He is the greatest player that I've ever seen play.

If we want to go with the opposite argument, then David Villa is a better player than Messi. He has played real well in Barcelona and he was the best player for Spain in the WC and the Euros.

We all know that the champions league is the most elite showcase of football in the world and what they play in the CL is on a whole other level compared to the world cup. The argument you guys make would be valid 20 or 30 years ago but this is a whole new generation and club football has surpassed the national game by far and no sane person would argue that the level of football played in the world cup even by the best of teams is superior to the level of football played in the CL.

Nowadays it's much more about the club game. It's like say if Jordan never won an Olympic gold in basketball then he would not be the best player ever. Football is at a similar stage now. The international game is inferior to European club football and that's the truth.

Nevermind that argument...if we go by this argument, Iniesta and Xavi are the 2 best players of all time. After all, they have 3 CLs, 5 La Ligas(Xavi actually 6), a World Cup and a EC title. That's more than Zidane ever did. If the argument is that, then so be it...Zidane >>> Messi but Iniesta >>>>>>>>> Zidane, Xavi >>>>>>>> Zidane

 

[Real Madrid]

and with all these magic the mystery continue for him not performing in international level, that is why for me he can never be in same category as the greatest Diego or even Zidane : carry their national team in their shoulder on top of club level .
I know in case of diego some will say football has been changed and is not one man show anymore , but france in 2006 was all about zidane !

As a Madrid fan I hate to admire someone in a blaugrana jersey but as I always said ;

First thing first Pep almost made barca around Messi when they play almost 60-65 games per season comparing to 10-15 games with Argentina.
As a matter of fact everyone in Barca play for him.

Yes Diego put the whole team on his shoulder but let's see who he had around him ; Batista , Brown , Valdano , Burruchaga , Caniggia and many more

As we speak, unlike decade ago the main problem with Argentina and south american teams in general is that they have no personality ( Teamhaye Bi shakhsiati hastan) I can only except Uruguay for now.

Fortunately Messi fell in one of the best era of Barca club but unfortunately in one of the worst Argentine time.

One more thing , neither Diego nor Zidane achieved what Messi achieved at the age of 24 ...

FUCK , what's wrong with me ??? AM i defending a barca player .... F%^&*( me

 

[byebyenow]

Scirea should be the best player of all time, except Euro Cup he has won everything CL, WC, Uefa, CWC, world club cup, super cup, many scudetto and few coppa italia. But he is not, he is one of the best defender and sweeper ever walked on earth, RIP to legend.
Anyway I do agree with R.Baggio. BTW since ur username is Baggio I think beside Maradona in 86 and 90 he was pre much a one man show in 94 and came very close to win it. Even that Italy team had great players in squad with defense, midfield and great goalkeeper. Zidane also had great team with him but also Messi. Lets not take anythng away from Zizu though without him France would have never been France in those years, he also had good Euro in 2000 and him not being in the first two games of the 2002 and Henry getting sent off that caused France to have a shitty cup. He also was awsom at Juve and unlucky to not win the Cl with them. All in all Im not saying he is better than Messi but Messi still has many years left to become greater than Zizu. Zidane himself also has to battle out with Platini to be the best French player of all time let alone europe or the world.
Messi will have to do much more to be the best player of Argentina because Maradona never had a team like Barcelona but instead Napoli and he was against one of the best teams in history Milan, Juve, Inter... Which that Milan was probably as big as this Barca team. He was against like Baresi, Bergomi, Maldini, Scirea, Gentile, and many more. He won the most difficult domestic league not with Milan or Juventus but Napoli. Yes Napoli was no Messina like I remeber someone compared them to but they were no Barca or Milan and majority of Napoli goals that year had something to do with Maradona. Messi has no Xavi in Argentina and you cant expect him be much better with no great playmaker but nor did Maradona in Argentina and Napoli none of those team had any midfield like Barca but Maradona made a big difference in both teams.

 

[mashdi]

What they said about Messi ....

Sir Alex Ferguson at Balon d'or Awards Ceremony :

" Great players would play in any generation. Lionel Messi could play in the 1950s and the present day, as could Di Stéfano, Pelé, Maradona, Cruyff, because they are all great players. Lionel Messi without question fits into that category."

"It's not a crime or a weakness, just a plain fact that the Barcelona team now, particularly with Lionel Messi in the side, are just an extraordinary team. I can't see anyone taking a trophy from them this year – Real Madrid are probably the nearest to them."

 

[Babr]

لیونل مسی گفته هدف بعدیم اینکه پدر بشم. امیدواریم اینکارو بتونه بدون کمک ژاوی و اینیستا انجام بده. ....!!!!

 

[Real Madrid]

لیونل مسی گفته هدف بعدیم اینکه پدر بشم. امیدواریم اینکارو بتونه بدون کمک ژاوی و اینیستا انجام بده. ....!!!!

:exercise::exercise::exercise:

 

[Babr]

time will tell us about messi ..

 

[Babr]

Zidane in 2006? Really? Zidane in 2006 barely made it out of the group stages with France. Then he had a good second half against Spain and a brilliant game against Brazil. But still, France had a defense, France had a midfield, France had an attack.
And with fuck the world cup I mean exactly that! A world cup says nothing about the consistency and greatness of a player. A world cup happens every 4 years and then you need more luck than anything else. Toto Schillachi did great at a World Cup. Who cares though?

you talk about exceptions toto schillachi , you know excatlly what i mean , i give messi the benefit of doubt and consider his young age ,etc but for me performing in WC is as important as club level ..

 

[kasra1930]

Scirea should be the best player of all time, except Euro Cup he has won everything CL, WC, Uefa, CWC, world club cup, super cup, many scudetto and few coppa italia. But he is not, he is one of the best defender and sweeper ever walked on earth, RIP to legend.
Anyway I do agree with R.Baggio. BTW since ur username is Baggio I think beside Maradona in 86 and 90 he was pre much a one man show in 94 and came very close to win it. Even that Italy team had great players in squad with defense, midfield and great goalkeeper. Zidane also had great team with him but also Messi. Lets not take anythng away from Zizu though without him France would have never been France in those years, he also had good Euro in 2000 and him not being in the first two games of the 2002 and Henry getting sent off that caused France to have a shitty cup. He also was awsom at Juve and unlucky to not win the Cl with them. All in all Im not saying he is better than Messi but Messi still has many years left to become greater than Zizu. Zidane himself also has to battle out with Platini to be the best French player of all time let alone europe or the world.
Messi will have to do much more to be the best player of Argentina because Maradona never had a team like Barcelona but instead Napoli and he was against one of the best teams in history Milan, Juve, Inter... Which that Milan was probably as big as this Barca team. He was against like Baresi, Bergomi, Maldini, Scirea, Gentile, and many more. He won the most difficult domestic league not with Milan or Juventus but Napoli. Yes Napoli was no Messina like I remeber someone compared them to but they were no Barca or Milan and majority of Napoli goals that year had something to do with Maradona. Messi has no Xavi in Argentina and you cant expect him be much better with no great playmaker but nor did Maradona in Argentina and Napoli none of those team had any midfield like Barca but Maradona made a big difference in both teams.[/QUOTE

very good,YOUR DISCUSSION was excellent,you name the great players and compare to each other,I like it very much,I like your comment because you know what you say,it seems a scientific article,...I hope now they understand the difference between Maradona AND Messi,yes maradona did not need any body he was a team,...but messi is not as effective as maradona or pele or platini in his national team,plus if you can bring up a second hand!!! foot club as napoli,to the top,that is a masterpiece va shahkar......can messi do his role in argentina?or if he is transferred to napoli can he do the same thing? I doubt it.....

 

[Mahdi]

you talk about exceptions toto schillachi , you know excatlly what i mean , i give messi the benefit of doubt and consider his young age ,etc but for me performing in WC is as important as club level ..

Toto Schillachi, Burruchaga, Igor Salenko, Roger Milla, Davor Suker, El-Hadji Diouf, everyone that played for Turkey in WC2002, Iaquinta...really, exceptions??? that's a lot of exceptions..

 

[Mahdi]

very good,YOUR DISCUSSION was excellent,you name the great players and compare to each other,I like it very much,I like your comment because you know what you say,it seems a scientific article,...I hope now they understand the difference between Maradona AND Messi,yes maradona did not need any body he was a team,...but messi is not as effective as maradona or pele or platini in his national team,plus if you can bring up a second hand!!! foot club as napoli,to the top,that is a masterpiece va shahkar......can messi do his role in argentina?or if he is transferred to napoli can he do the same thing? I doubt it.....

Maradona in WC82, around Messi's age, had Mario Kempes, Passarella, Ozzy Ardiles, Valdano, Santamaria etc. and got kicked out of the tournament in shame. So much for that...

and if Hamsik and Lavezzi can qualify Napoli for the Champions League, I would really make a strong bet that Messi with Cavani at Napoli would win at least 2 scudettos in 4 years.

 

[kasra1930]

As a Madrid fan I hate to admire someone in a blaugrana jersey but as I always said ;

First thing first Pep almost made barca around Messi when they play almost 60-65 games per season comparing to 10-15 games with Argentina.
As a matter of fact everyone in Barca play for him.

Yes Diego put the whole team on his shoulder but let's see who he had around him ; Batista , Brown , Valdano , Burruchaga , Caniggia and many more

As we speak, unlike decade ago the main problem with Argentina and south american teams in general is that they have no personality ( Teamhaye Bi shakhsiati hastan) I can only except Uruguay for now.

Fortunately Messi fell in one of the best era of Barca club but unfortunately in one of the worst Argentine time.

One more thing , neither Diego nor Zidane achieved what Messi achieved at the age of 24 ...

FUCK , what's wrong with me ??? AM i defending a barca player .... F%^&*( me

totally disagree with you ;
1)I CAN ANSWER ALL YOUR RESPONSE ONE BY ONE,but I prefer to answer ONE AT A TIME,the rest would be in next post.
I give you some statistic to understand better the situation of messi and pele.I start from messi when he was at age 24:
messi achievments at age 24:grabbed 4 cups in la liga 2004-5 2008-9 2009-10,2010-11
copa del Rey 2008-09
super copa 4 or 5 times(2005-6-9-10-11)
European super cup 2009
club world cup 2009
champion leagues 2005-6 2008-9 2010-11
argentin youth team 1
NO acheivement in world cup in 2 periods(disaster for the best player)
NO acievement in copa americana (also another disaster)
pele achievement at age 24:
4 cups with in santos paulista tournament
2 cups in Rio-sao tournament
3 cups in brazilian championship
2 cups in copa liberatores
2 cups for brasil in a tournament with portugal,england,bolivia,and next year with paraguay,chile,uruguay
2 WORLD CUP CHAMPIONSHIP 1958,1962,IN 1958,he scored twice in final when he was 17 year old
grabbed the title of the most valuable player in continent of south america 1958,1959,1960
he got second after garrincha in 1962

and finally please listen to BOBI Charlton,the legendary player of england,he used to play with pele,IN 1962,1964.1966 1970..,he also saw maradona,WHEN HE USED TO PLAY,
what he says is,IF messi.......you know IF,IF and IF.....IF HE KEEPS PLAYING LIKE THIS,HE WILL BE GREATEST...IF....

ABOUT THE REST OF YOUR ANSWERS I WILL RESPOND IN ANOTHER POST

 

[byebyenow]

Maradona in WC82, around Messi's age, had Mario Kempes, Passarella, Ozzy Ardiles, Valdano, Santamaria etc. and got kicked out of the tournament in shame. So much for that...

and if Hamsik and Lavezzi can qualify Napoli for the Champions League, I would really make a strong bet that Messi with Cavani at Napoli would win at least 2 scudettos in 4 years.

But not so much in 86, and thats why I say Messi has so much left to prove himself, but Maradona in 86 is something Messi can reply in the future but hasnt just yet. In 82 they lost to the best Italian team in the history.
And I agree Napoli is much different right now, Cavani, Hamsik, Lavezzi, Zuniga, Maggio, Inler, ect... This team is much stronger and if they have Messi they can win the Scudetto but when Maradona Joined Napoli, Napoli wasnt doning so good and struggling for relegation before Maradona plus winning scudetto was much harder to win than right now. Napoli already had a decent team before Cavani join the team and only looked like they were ganna get stronger year by year since their pormotion. What Maradona did for Napoli is like Cavani win the CL with Napoli this year beating Chelsea, Barca, and Madrid.

 

[byebyenow]

Maybe not this Napoli but lets say he move to Fiorentina right now and win the scudetto or lets say Genoa, Napoli is more like that Sampdoria of Vialli and Mancini. And they dont really need Messi to win the Scudetto, they can win in few years if things going well for them and they dont need Messi to win it.

 

[Real Madrid]

totally disagree with you ;
1)I CAN ANSWER ALL YOUR RESPONSE ONE BY ONE,but I prefer to answer ONE AT A TIME,the rest would be in next post.
I give you some statistic to understand better the situation of messi and pele.I start from messi when he was at age 24:
messi achievments at age 24:grabbed 4 cups in la liga 2004-5 2008-9 2009-10,2010-11
copa del Rey 2008-09
super copa 4 or 5 times(2005-6-9-10-11)
European super cup 2009
club world cup 2009
champion leagues 2005-6 2008-9 2010-11
argentin youth team 1
NO acheivement in world cup in 2 periods(disaster for the best player)
NO acievement in copa americana (also another disaster)
pele achievement at age 24:
4 cups with in santos paulista tournament
2 cups in Rio-sao tournament
3 cups in brazilian championship
2 cups in copa liberatores
2 cups for brasil in a tournament with portugal,england,bolivia,and next year with paraguay,chile,uruguay
2 WORLD CUP CHAMPIONSHIP 1958,1962,IN 1958,he scored twice in final when he was 17 year old
grabbed the title of the most valuable player in continent of south america 1958,1959,1960
he got second after garrincha in 1962

and finally please listen to BOBI Charlton,the legendary player of england,he used to play with pele,IN 1962,1964.1966 1970..,he also saw maradona,WHEN HE USED TO PLAY,
what he says is,IF messi.......you know IF,IF and IF.....IF HE KEEPS PLAYING LIKE THIS,HE WILL BE GREATEST...IF....

ABOUT THE REST OF YOUR ANSWERS I WILL RESPOND IN ANOTHER POST

How can you compare Champions league and laliga with Ria-sao tournoments and paulista or libertadores ? in that case Ali karimi also has a few League Azadegan title under his belt, so what ?

Pele never played in Europe and you know that you are NOBODY if you don't play in Europe. It's like you get your MD degree in Yale or in one of the caribbean countries. As Ronaldo ( the brazilian ) said No one even in South America knows you unless you play and shine in Europe .

European leagues are broadcasted in South America but you can barely see any South American league on Air in Europe or elsewhere.

When Pele was shining in Brazil , no one even bother to tackle as tackling was just invented in football

just few weeks ago , you saw what happened to one of the most promising brazilian players when they faced barca , Neymar it is . he almost cried and waited till the 90 minutes is over. and who is Neymar ? the one who scored the best goal of the year against flamingo ....

by the way ... bobby charlton ? I would say the same if My team would lose twice against barca in the Champions league final , eep: don't take him seriously

 

[Mahdi]

Maybe not this Napoli but lets say he move to Fiorentina right now and win the scudetto or lets say Genoa, Napoli is more like that Sampdoria of Vialli and Mancini. And they dont really need Messi to win the Scudetto, they can win in few years if things going well for them and they dont need Messi to win it.

But not so much in 86, and thats why I say Messi has so much left to prove himself, but Maradona in 86 is something Messi can reply in the future but hasnt just yet. In 82 they lost to the best Italian team in the history.
And I agree Napoli is much different right now, Cavani, Hamsik, Lavezzi, Zuniga, Maggio, Inler, ect... This team is much stronger and if they have Messi they can win the Scudetto but when Maradona Joined Napoli, Napoli wasnt doning so good and struggling for relegation before Maradona plus winning scudetto was much harder to win than right now. Napoli already had a decent team before Cavani join the team and only looked like they were ganna get stronger year by year since their pormotion. What Maradona did for Napoli is like Cavani win the CL with Napoli this year beating Chelsea, Barca, and Madrid.

well, let's say Messi joins Roma then. But anyway, the key point is that football right now is a totally different sport than it was 10 years ago, nevermind 20.

but actually good point, if Messi joined Napoli and won CL with them...would probably be the equal of winning scudetto in that stuffed era.