Page 4 of 11 FirstFirst 1234567891011 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 154
  1. #46
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    7,989
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by R_E_Z_A View Post
    You are free to express yourself within the framework of Islam. Is this difficult for you to undrestand?

  2. #47
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    7,016
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by byebyenow View Post
    I live like anybody else, I try to be more environmental friendly but like you said it doesn't help when I use electricity I'm mostly getting them from coal power plants and ect...
    It is not about that as we are all trapped into it, however we all can be much more active and being more involve to go against these corporate power. There is many things people can do in order to stop these policies. For example people could push their governors and mayors into regulating many corporations and energy plants. We as people should put a lot more pressure on our government to regulate our energy and oil companies. We as people should put way more pressure on our government to build greener resolution than fracking and such. We as people can do a lot to put pressure on our government to do a right thing rather than benefiting corporations. Of course each one of us should help in this trend as not being as wasteful and be more environmental friendly!
    We as people should have put a lot of pressure on our government to build public transportation but we have Highways and Freeways instead in America, we as people should force government to be more people friendly rather than investors friendly.
    I don't drive my car for no reason, I try to shop locally and I try not waste a lot of electricity. There is so much each one of us can do individually but it would never be enough until we regulate our Energy and oil companies!
    This is all talk. Anyone can say them. Don't wait for others to act. Start with yourself. Turn off the AC, bike to work, don't fly, raise your own chickens.
    They can again be what they once were

  3. #48
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    7,989
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Flint View Post
    Generally speaking, the people who have a problem with the US or Canada are already living there.
    He Means there is not so man akhond in Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by R_E_Z_A View Post
    You are free to express yourself within the framework of Islam. Is this difficult for you to undrestand?

  4. #49
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    7,104
    Post Thanks / Like
    Why to prove that this is the best country ?
    Anyone who has lived here knows that Canada and USA are great countries to live in.

  5. #50
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    2,308
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Flint View Post
    This is all talk. Anyone can say them. Don't wait for others to act. Start with yourself. Turn off the AC, bike to work, don't fly, raise your own chickens.
    Sorry, but you are oversimplifying the issue.

    Environmental responsibility has two aspects to it, social (or public, including industry) and personal. At the personal level, it is more about responsible choice than sacrifice. To be an environmentally responsible person, you should not be expected to sacrifice to the extent that puts you in great disadvantage. You cannot expect someone to bike to work in Los Angeles (if they do that's great) because the city is not built that way. It is an issue of public responsibility to ensure that anyone who does not want to drive can move around without putting herself at great disadvantage compared to those who choose to drive.

    The solution is simple. There is nothing wrong with driving, or having AC work 24 hours a day, or with flying, or with watering your large garden in the desert, or living in 10000 sq-ft mansion, or with a pipeline, etc. These are all fine, as long as people are held accountable for their environmental footprint. When you use someone's land, you pay for it. When you use someone's material, you pay for it. You pay for labor that benefits you. However, we do not pay for environmental resources that we use, and neither do industries. This is the core of the problem, and environmental groups have it all wrong to oppose projects like pipeline, or coal-fired power plants, or off-shore drilling, etc. Instead, they should insist on the industry being financially accountable for monetized burden on the environment. You want to use coal to generate power, that's fine, you just have to pay more in environmental cost. When this additional cost is passed to the consumer, they will have a financial choice that will remove the issue of sacrifice from the table.

    If you truly believe in a market economy, this is the solution. The problem is the industry does not believe in an equitable market economy that accounts for external costs.

  6. #51
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    7,016
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Iran-Esteghlal-Inter View Post
    As someone else mentions, we left our country to have the right to think about these things, something that is non-existent in our country. I am glad that I live here and I am thankful about the life I have but I am not going to become a red-neck just because average idiot wasteful dictate me to do so.
    Looks like you left your country to tell others how to live. I'll drink my coffee anyway I damn please. Now let me tell you something. I demand that you vacate your house and move to a 500sq. ft. apartment and have your electricity shut off as soon as you go over 250 kWh. How do you like that?
    They can again be what they once were

  7. #52
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    7,016
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by khodam View Post
    You want to use coal to generate power, that's fine, you just have to pay more in environmental cost. When this additional cost is passed to the consumer, they will have a financial choice that will remove the issue of sacrifice from the table.
    Looks like you got your man in office.

    They can again be what they once were

  8. #53
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    7,104
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Flint View Post
    Looks like you left your country to tell others how to live. I'll drink my coffee anyway I damn please. Now let me tell you something. I demand that you vacate your house and move to a 500sq. ft. apartment and have your electricity shut off as soon as you go over 250 kWh. How do you like that?
    Again, you are incapable of having a logical discussion. You know what, you are right !!
    continue your life with ignorance, it is a bliss.

  9. #54
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    844
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Flint View Post
    Looks like you left your country to tell others how to live. I'll drink my coffee anyway I damn please. Now let me tell you something. I demand that you vacate your house and move to a 500sq. ft. apartment and have your electricity shut off as soon as you go over 250 kWh. How do you like that?
    How old are you?

  10. #55
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    4,762
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Flint View Post
    This is all talk. Anyone can say them. Don't wait for others to act. Start with yourself. Turn off the AC, bike to work, don't fly, raise your own chickens.
    NO, I am not all talk ! what you are suggesting is not logical at all. The core problem is lack of regulation on our oil companies and Energy plants not me not biking to work, as a matter of fact everybody drives here because of lack of good public transportation. People should put more pressure on their government, this is not talk, people around the world does it but seems like people in America are in lala land. You are talking about raising my own chicken but you lack to understand people living in urban cities don't have the space and capital for that. As the mater of fact I have helped many to build their own green houses and teach them how to grow vegetables and fruits organically. So you are assuming I just talk is because you have no idea what kind of person I am and what I do for living!
    Forza La Vecchia Signora

  11. #56
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    4,762
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by khodam View Post
    Sorry, but you are oversimplifying the issue.

    Environmental responsibility has two aspects to it, social (or public, including industry) and personal. At the personal level, it is more about responsible choice than sacrifice. To be an environmentally responsible person, you should not be expected to sacrifice to the extent that puts you in great disadvantage. You cannot expect someone to bike to work in Los Angeles (if they do that's great) because the city is not built that way. It is an issue of public responsibility to ensure that anyone who does not want to drive can move around without putting herself at great disadvantage compared to those who choose to drive.

    The solution is simple. There is nothing wrong with driving, or having AC work 24 hours a day, or with flying, or with watering your large garden in the desert, or living in 10000 sq-ft mansion, or with a pipeline, etc. These are all fine, as long as people are held accountable for their environmental footprint. When you use someone's land, you pay for it. When you use someone's material, you pay for it. You pay for labor that benefits you. However, we do not pay for environmental resources that we use, and neither do industries. This is the core of the problem, and environmental groups have it all wrong to oppose projects like pipeline, or coal-fired power plants, or off-shore drilling, etc. Instead, they should insist on the industry being financially accountable for monetized burden on the environment. You want to use coal to generate power, that's fine, you just have to pay more in environmental cost. When this additional cost is passed to the consumer, they will have a financial choice that will remove the issue of sacrifice from the table.

    If you truly believe in a market economy, this is the solution. The problem is the industry does not believe in an equitable market economy that accounts for external costs.
    This is very true, but it seems like the issue of paying the price of using resources or producing smogs take away the focus of finding new ways and greener of producing energy instead it still focus on the old methods. Instead of investors pay for these resources and smogs they could invest the same money in finding and engineering new technologies for producing much cleaner energy.
    Forza La Vecchia Signora

  12. #57
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    4,762
    Post Thanks / Like
    I understand people are concern about jobs and economy but the problem doesn't lie on not extracting natural resources, Canada used to be an industrial country but now seems like it is a drilling and mining and logging country. The reason jobs left Canada and US and many other western countries is because of them exporting the jobs and manufacturing over seas specially Asia for cheaper labor and less unions. So now it became to the point that people in US and Canada are destroying their natural lands in order to make few bucks, that is the shame!
    Forza La Vecchia Signora

  13. #58
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    7,104
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by byebyenow View Post
    I understand people are concern about jobs and economy but the problem doesn't lie on not extracting natural resources, Canada used to be an industrial country but now seems like it is a drilling and mining and logging country. The reason jobs left Canada and US and many other western countries is because of them exporting the jobs and manufacturing over seas specially Asia for cheaper labor and less unions. So now it became to the point that people in US and Canada are destroying their natural lands in order to make few bucks, that is the shame!
    And also, they are used to the consuming life style and very hard to change their way of life.
    The funny part is some Iranians now have become red neck Americans, this is even more shame LOL

  14. #59
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    11,593
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by byebyenow View Post
    I understand people are concern about jobs and economy but the problem doesn't lie on not extracting natural resources, Canada used to be an industrial country but now seems like it is a drilling and mining and logging country. The reason jobs left Canada and US and many other western countries is because of them exporting the jobs and manufacturing over seas specially Asia for cheaper labor and less unions. So now it became to the point that people in US and Canada are destroying their natural lands in order to make few bucks, that is the shame!
    Labor may have left North America, but the products that are built in China and Asia are owned by American and Canadian companies and the profits are mostly coming back to North America. Who do you think makes the bigger bucks from iPhone and iPad sales? Foxconn or Apple?

    The industry in Canada is still strong and the high tech sector is doing very well lately. Canada lost some high paying technology jobs but to the US, not to Asia. The reason was the rise of the Canadian dollar versus US dollar (from 60 cents in 2003 to 105 last year). If the US dollar value strengthens, some of those jobs will move back to Canada.

  15. #60
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    2,308
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by byebyenow View Post
    This is very true, but it seems like the issue of paying the price of using resources or producing smogs take away the focus of finding new ways and greener of producing energy instead it still focus on the old methods. Instead of investors pay for these resources and smogs they could invest the same money in finding and engineering new technologies for producing much cleaner energy.
    byebye jan, it's actually the opposite. If you make polluters pay based on the damage they cause to the environment and public health, then you are indirectly putting cleaner technologies at an economic advantage, hence encouraging development of cleaner technologies. It's just that you let the market dictate that instead of imposing it through regulations. A good example of this is the development of hybrid technology by the automative industry which was, at least in part, an answer to increasing gas prices. By the same token, if "pollution" becomes more expensive, cleaner technologies will be developed due to market forces. This is the underlying idea of cap and trade, though cap and trade does not take into account the damage caused by pollution, but just the cost of reducing it to a cap level. The problem is that for many environmental issues, the damage is at least few times (and in many cases an order of magnitude) larger than the cost of reducing the pollution.

 

 

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •