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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardesheer View Post
    Not sure if you are trying to be funny or not, but I think he has done a lot more right by humanity than Mohammad, Ali, Jesus, Bahaollah, etc.
    LOL!

    Why is a joke at Dawkins expense a support for Islam? Are atheists just unfunny and without sense of humor, or are Mohammad, Ali, Jesus, Bahaollah and Dawkins the only people you have read that argue the existence or lack of a divine being?

    Anyway, to me he is a scientific entertainer like DeGrasse Tyson and neither his scientific contributions nor his "humanitarian" contributions are too worthwhile. But if you feel about him the same way others feel about Mammad, Jesus and Ali, then please go ahead and do so. Not my problem.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by keyvan_pars View Post

    Everything that means 'anything' in this world should be measured on a scale, quantified and proved. That is the essence of atheism or agnosticism.
    Scales are arbitrary.

    Everything to do with provable evidence and nothing to do with feeling.
    That might be the case whenever humans become robots, but has nothing to do with the real world. Also absence of evidence does not equal to evidence of absence.

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    to me he is a scientific entertainer like DeGrasse Tyson
    This is very true, but he's a lot more tolerable and a better speaker than that Tyson guy.


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  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Strangemoosh View Post
    Just to repeat myself again, in science and medicine we have quantitative and qualitative study. Both are important.

    Your coding python can only be done with numbers and figures i.e quantitative.

    Attitudes to God/flying spaghetti monster/Salma Hayek's puppies might not lend itself to quantitative analysis. Dawkins has his scale. Others don't.

    I don't see why this is hard to understand, but am happy to say it a third time.
    maybe, like some other people that i know, your explanations only make sense to yourself. and not to others.

    as far as Dawkins having a scale and others not having it, maybe that is why he is 'telling' them about his scale to inspire ideas in their heads together with your god, china teapot, salam hayek's etc etc.

    often your explanations make perfect sense to yourself but others have absolutely not fucking idea what you are talking about.
    holiness is in the right action not in god .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sly View Post
    Wasn't that the whole point of your thread? To think yourself critically instead of quoting others?


    and who should be measuring the scale and do the quantification? Dawkins is a person with his own ideas. He put down his ideas in a book. Believing or disbelieving in god, is nothing you can prove by any calculated percentage which means everyone will have to have their own ideas about it! Dawkins put up a quantification based on his own experiences, theories and what he sees. Not based on proved mathematical formulas.

    and the same thinking should go to his whole book when you read it! The book only describes his ideas. You might find his ideas to be similar to yours and then again, you might not! You can not post a thread on him and try to discuss about his book as if it was a scientifically proven fact!
    i know you are used to be told what to do ... the 'what' instead of 'how',
    he is trying to open a new door for his daughter.

    by quoting him, i am trying to share my interest with the forum. that is all.
    if you are questioning dawkins go on his website and question him. i am sure he will promptly reply. good luck !
    holiness is in the right action not in god .

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bache Tehroon View Post
    This is very true, but he's a lot more tolerable and a better speaker than that Tyson guy.
    That might be because of his British education and English accent. I had an argument with my uncle two days ago about Tyson and how he is an entertainer and he should be treated as one. His argument were the 17 honorary degrees he has. I had nothing left to say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mahdi View Post
    Scales are arbitrary.



    That might be the case whenever humans become robots, but has nothing to do with the real world. Also absence of evidence does not equal to evidence of absence.
    true that scales are arbitrary, agreed. but as a believer (forgive me for being presumptuous, if you are not please correct me), don't you feel you need to dig into things more, try to get some sort of assurance that you are not on wrong path ?

    some scale is better none.

    I also agree absence of evidence does not equal evidence of absence but with our present knowledge, taking into consideration all factors, would it be somewhat reasonable to lean one way or the other due to overwhelming (not total but) overwhelming evidence to one side ???

    i guess i should not judge others with the same standards of myself. that is very self centered.

    I would say, i think, no matter how much people think this sort of thing does not affect everyday life, it does. Obviously more in Aleppo than Rodeo drive but it does nonetheless.

    basically, i don't like people pissing on my back and telling me it is raining.

    Now assume a world with 90 percent faith and 10 percent doubt as probably it is now, with no religious wars, no greed and minimum poverty, would i talk about my atheism in such a world ? NO BLOODY WAY.

    would i quote dawkins in this forum? no i would probably post an album of women's photos with firm natural tits and hard asses. In such a world, i would only be vocal when someone asks or steps over my rights, otherwise i would be silent about my personal beliefs.

    now is that too much to ask of muslims, jews, christians, china tea pots, pink elephants, darth vader etc etc .
    disband your mosques and churches and have faith in PRIVATE. since it is between you and god.

    but as we know there is no business like show business. you suggest something like that, you will achieve something impossible, you will unite Netenyaboo, ISIS, king faghat, Trump, ali mafool, kim choon koon all in the same camp and you ll disappear in a blink of an eye.
    holiness is in the right action not in god .

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  10. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mahdi View Post
    LOL!

    Why is a joke at Dawkins expense a support for Islam? Are atheists just unfunny and without sense of humor, or are Mohammad, Ali, Jesus, Bahaollah and Dawkins the only people you have read that argue the existence or lack of a divine being?

    Anyway, to me he is a scientific entertainer like DeGrasse Tyson and neither his scientific contributions nor his "humanitarian" contributions are too worthwhile. But if you feel about him the same way others feel about Mammad, Jesus and Ali, then please go ahead and do so. Not my problem.
    i guess you might take evolution (how you were to be here) as entertainment. It is a positive way of looking at things.

    as far as comparing him to the religious figures you mentioned, one might get the same high from mohamad and jesus,

    i mean if you are more interested in jesus exorcising a girl in nazareth and direct the demons go into a pig's ass and the pig runs into water and kills the demon and the girl lives happily ever after then jesus does it for you.

    or

    you are interested in seeing how garden spiders, over millions of years, have perfected their nesting and mating habits.
    again your choice

    with one tiny difference.

    jesus-girl-pig-demon ---> you have to accept on faith
    spider ---> you can wait for spring and see for yourself with a high end infra red camera
    holiness is in the right action not in god .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mahdi View Post
    That might be because of his British education and English accent. I had an argument with my uncle two days ago about Tyson and how he is an entertainer and he should be treated as one. His argument were the 17 honorary degrees he has. I had nothing left to say.
    Ahmadinejad, Khamenei and Rafsanjani all have multiple honorary degrees.

    Obama has a fucking Nobel Peace prize! LOL!


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  13. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by keyvan_pars View Post
    true that scales are arbitrary, agreed. but as a believer (forgive me for being presumptuous, if you are not please correct me), don't you feel you need to dig into things more, try to get some sort of assurance that you are not on wrong path ?
    believer is a big word. I just believe that there might be a spiritual level to our life and a higher being. his existence or non-existence however don't have much to do with my everyday life. I don't know what this is called. I live my life by best practice and golden rules. I also live by not putting others in harms I myself am not exposed to. I believe religions are customs in our every day life that have survived. Most customs in religion date back to "pagan" times so I don't think that they have much to do with Abrahamistic religions. Some of these customs have survived times, some haven't. Some of these customs make sense, some don't. Now, I think this is too complicated of a thought to put a scale on it. I studied maths but I'm against quantification of everything. I also don't think much about wrong or right paths, neither for myself nor for others. Anyway, does that make sense?

    I also agree absence of evidence does not equal evidence of absence but with our present knowledge, taking into consideration all factors, would it be somewhat reasonable to lean one way or the other due to overwhelming (not total but) overwhelming evidence to one side ???

    i guess i should not judge others with the same standards of myself. that is very self centered.
    But what is the time frame we're looking at of our ideas and our evidence to whichever side? It is a world we have no idea about. It's a belief. Atheism is a belief like every other belief. The question to me is always about harm. Right now the belief that is most harmful to people's life is Wahabi-Salafist-thoughts aka Islam aka whatever. Well, I have a problem with that.

    I would say, i think, no matter how much people think this sort of thing does not affect everyday life, it does. Obviously more in Aleppo than Rodeo drive but it does nonetheless.

    basically, i don't like people pissing on my back and telling me it is raining.

    Now assume a world with 90 percent faith and 10 percent doubt as probably it is now, with no religious wars, no greed and minimum poverty, would i talk about my atheism in such a world ? NO BLOODY WAY.

    would i quote dawkins in this forum? no i would probably post an album of women's photos with firm natural tits and hard asses. In such a world, i would only be vocal when someone asks or steps over my rights, otherwise i would be silent about my personal beliefs.

    now is that too much to ask of muslims, jews, christians, china tea pots, pink elephants, darth vader etc etc .
    disband your mosques and churches and have faith in PRIVATE. since it is between you and god.

    but as we know there is no business like show business. you suggest something like that, you will achieve something impossible, you will unite Netenyaboo, ISIS, king faghat, Trump, ali mafool, kim choon koon all in the same camp and you ll disappear in a blink of an eye.
    Well, I agree. But if you look at history, Islam's expansion had all to do with a battle for resources. Crusaders were about resources. colonialism was about resources. But I guess we agree anyway that this is all about business and dokoonrani and not actual beliefs.

    Quote Originally Posted by keyvan_pars View Post
    i guess you might take evolution (how you were to be here) as entertainment. It is a positive way of looking at things.
    Actually I wrote my thesis in maths on evolutionary game theory. It was related to biomathematics and such. The only thing I'm certain of in life is evolution.

    as far as comparing him to the religious figures you mentioned, one might get the same high from mohamad and jesus,

    i mean if you are more interested in jesus exorcising a girl in nazareth and direct the demons go into a pig's ass and the pig runs into water and kills the demon and the girl lives happily ever after then jesus does it for you.

    or

    you are interested in seeing how garden spiders, over millions of years, have perfected their nesting and mating habits.
    again your choice

    with one tiny difference.

    jesus-girl-pig-demon ---> you have to accept on faith
    spider ---> you can wait for spring and see for yourself with a high end infra red camera
    I just don't like Dawkins as a persona and public intellectual. That's it. I prefer a dialectic approach to his. I don't mind what he says, he is free to say it. It's more about forms and the way it's presented and such things. To me Tyson, Dawkins, Aslan etc. different sides of the same coin. They give oversimplified solutions and explanations to things other people invested a lot of thought into and gave better thought answers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mahdi View Post
    LOL!

    Why is a joke at Dawkins expense a support for Islam? Are atheists just unfunny and without sense of humor, or are Mohammad, Ali, Jesus, Bahaollah and Dawkins the only people you have read that argue the existence or lack of a divine being?

    Anyway, to me he is a scientific entertainer like DeGrasse Tyson and neither his scientific contributions nor his "humanitarian" contributions are too worthwhile. But if you feel about him the same way others feel about Mammad, Jesus and Ali, then please go ahead and do so. Not my problem.
    You know, it does not surprise me how dumb some people are anymore. How would a human brain work to make the above weird conclusions from what I said, I don't know. But then again, there are plenty of dumb people to celebrate stupidity.

    Dawkins is just a regular person. Nothing more. My point: he has contributed more to humanity than a bunch of charlatans that lied about being God's messengers. Get it? Wanna hear something scary? You have contributed more to humanity than Mohammad, Ali, Jesus (if existed) and Bahaolah, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardesheer View Post

    Dawkins is just a regular person. Nothing more. My point: he has contributed more to humanity than a bunch of charlatans that lied about being God's messengers. Get it? Wanna hear something scary? You have contributed more to humanity than Mohammad, Ali, Jesus (if existed) and Bahaolah, etc.
    he is an extremely down to earth regular chap. unlike prophets, presidents, football players, leaders, etc etc that are untouchable in people's minds.

    I would say his contributions to humanism and atheist culture is nearly unmatched. ( i have not read much Sagan, or Espinoza)

    One needs to approach such topics without bias and then maybe things might be a bit clearer. For sure he is no George Carlin. I have seen one lecture by Degrasse, interesting as he is, however, he does not use the same methodology as Dawkins. Different listeners.

    as a child after the revolution when all lectures at school were dominated by allah and mohamad etc etc ...
    i asked my islamic vision (binesh e eslami) teacher, you say god created everything, therefore things start by creation and not evolution.

    he said yes my brother (baraadar), I asked so WHO CREATED GOD ? (i had not read dawkins, hitchens, voltaire, sagan, russel, espinoza, etc) i had just spoke a few times with my grand father who had told me always question things, don't accept them just because people tell you so.

    i lost 5.5 marks on my behavior grade that brought my annual GPA average below 18.75 which meant i could not do a two for one over the summer.

    my father had to take me to school to apologize so that i was able to study over the summer to jump a grade.

    such is the workings of the faithful minds.
    holiness is in the right action not in god .

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    Quote Originally Posted by keyvan_pars View Post
    maybe, like some other people that i know, your explanations only make sense to yourself. and not to others.

    as far as Dawkins having a scale and others not having it, maybe that is why he is 'telling' them about his scale to inspire ideas in their heads together with your god, china teapot, salam hayek's etc etc.

    often your explanations make perfect sense to yourself but others have absolutely not fucking idea what you are talking about.
    Maybe not to you chief...

    OK I agree with you that maybe Dawkins is saying this to inspire ideas, that is fine.

    But you're saying things which are just barndoor wrong, and just another style of dogma:

    "Everything that means 'anything' in this world should be measured on a scale, quantified and proved."
    "you need to put things on a scale, especially when comparing two ideas"

    Wrong. This just isn't true, anyone who is into Research and the fundamentals of Science knows this. Maybe you say this because you work in a field which is just about numbers and codes, that is fine, but your statements here do not hold true. And I'm telling you as someone who is into this kind of thing that scales are only useful for one sub-branch of learning more about science/medicine/gooz/choss.
    Last edited by Dr Strangemoosh; 21-04-2017 at 07:12 PM.

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  18. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardesheer View Post
    One more thing, I am not here to win arguments. .
    No shit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ardesheer View Post
    So, to continue the discussion, what makes you to be 5-6 if Dawkins is at 6.5.
    Because I don't care about scales or quantification about how much one believes in fairytales, that's what makes me 5-6 and Dawkins at 6.5. I prefer Science and Research, be it quantitative or qualitative.

    So my lack of caring takes a point off me.

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  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Strangemoosh View Post
    Maybe not to you chief...

    OK I agree with you that maybe Dawkins is saying this to inspire ideas, that is fine.

    But you're saying things which are just barndoor wrong:

    "Everything that means 'anything' in this world should be measured on a scale, quantified and proved."
    "you need to put things on a scale, especially when comparing two ideas"

    Wrong. This just isn't true, anyone who is into Research and the fundamentals of Science knows this. Maybe you say this because you work in a field which is just about numbers and codes, that is fine, but your statements here do not hold true. And I'm telling you as someone who is into this kind of thing that scales are only useful for one sub-branch of learning more about science/medicine/gooz/choss.

    If you are convinced these two statements are true, then that's fine, but that's just another style of dogma.
    yes you are right i got one word wrong.

    everything that ...is this world WILL be measured on a specific scale. Scientific advancement is required.

    feelings, love, hate, conscience can also be measured not on a scale but in relativity.

    of course you can say base on different cultures love means different things and it is measured differently:

    in western socities, IN GENERAL, love is measured by level of compromise, sacrifice, closness etc
    in other societies is is directly measured by belongings and on a monetary scale
    in others love is measured by a level of the 'reduced hate'

    IT IS STILL MEASURED.
    you can't isolated it in your lab but it is measured.

    the feeling of love is not measured in a lab as you say but what we love, or who we love should be measurable or else we are in need of psychiatric help. i.e. we believe in god
    holiness is in the right action not in god .

 

 

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