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  1. #76
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    Pot 3 or 4, we are really inferior to any team from Europe or S. America. The more physical they are, the less chance we have. We might not lose to Argentina worse than 1-0 but then we get hammered by Bosnia.
    We are give or take in par with Asian teams but we won't be with them in one group so really who cares. So it leaves us North American and African teams, which are fairly comparable within the same pots excluding Mexico. So we need good preparation, number of friendlies, and a lot of luck!

    I personally don't believe we should do worse than 2012. We have a younger more ambitious team (for the first time we will not field old farts in the WC stage) but a number of our players have WC experience, we are cohesive, we have a lot of players in 3rd level Eu teams but more than any time before they actually play for their respective sides, and we have no internal divide that we are aware of.
    The trench is dug within our hearts
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  3. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bache Tehroon View Post
    Again, it certainly makes a difference if Iran wants to play football, but how different does Iran play against Argentina than it does against Iceland or Croatia? Not all that different.

    Team Melli is a one-trick pony. Compact defense with the rare success on counters. This tactic works against almost every single team in the world and on a lucky streak it could actually take Iran very far. Like it did Greece in 2004.

    I personally hate it but fuck it. If people like it, then so be it.
    It worked with Greece in Euro not in world cup. I think there is a huge difference.

  4. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Real Madrid View Post
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    BT has the point, if we play football yes it makes a difference but then again if are going to sit deep and wait for a counter then god should help in WorldCup . when was the last time we played a quality team ? almost 2 1/2 years ago against Chile and Sweden and ever since we never broke out of Asia . Are we a master of our domain ? Maybe so but Is Iran ready to take it to the next level ? Then That is up to discuss. We played our best game in 2014 against Argentina in Pot 1 and the worse against Bosnia in Pot 3, this is why I say it does not really matter whether be pot 3 or 4 . As of right now I believe with CQ style Iran play the likes of Belgium better than Honduras .
    We played worst against Bosnia because we tried to attack and win and left space between lines. Iran is at its best staying tight and leaving no space. Just next time we should maybe avoid defending with 11 in our own field against a good team when the score is 0-0 in the 90th but maybe try to take the ball and the team towards their half. Even if we don't have the ball.

    The key is always to keep the opponent away from your goal. Be it with or without the ball. That's something we have improved on since 2014.

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  6. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by ME View Post
    Pot 3 or 4, we are really inferior to any team from Europe or S. America. The more physical they are, the less chance we have. We might not lose to Argentina worse than 1-0 but then we get hammered by Bosnia.
    We are give or take in par with Asian teams but we won't be with them in one group so really who cares. So it leaves us North American and African teams, which are fairly comparable within the same pots excluding Mexico. So we need good preparation, number of friendlies, and a lot of luck!

    I personally don't believe we should do worse than 2012. We have a younger more ambitious team (for the first time we will not field old farts in the WC stage) but a number of our players have WC experience, we are cohesive, we have a lot of players in 3rd level Eu teams but more than any time before they actually play for their respective sides, and we have no internal divide that we are aware of.
    We are inferior to the GOOD teams in Europe and South America, we can beat or tie the middle of the road teams. When you say ANYONE then what we are going to lose to Bolivia, Venezuela, Estonia or Latvia I don't think so. We NEED to be in Pot 3 so we can at least have ONE crappy team in our group, if we are pot 4 then we are screwed and have no shot

  7. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mahdi View Post
    The key is always to keep the opponent away from your goal. Be it with or without the ball. That's something we have improved on since 2014.
    I don't believe we have. How would we know anyway? We haven't played a dominant side since the last world cup.

    Even against a pathetic Korea we got badly boxed in for continuous minutes at a time. Jalal Hosseini, as good a defender as he is, just sits way too deep and brings the entire team back with him.

    We thought we had found a jewel in Ezzatollahi. Apparently we were wrong. The kid is not dependable. He could've been the key to breaking Nekounam's lazy and slow trend, but he's too hot-headed and not skillful enough.

    Overall, Iran's offensive game and build-up play is extremely lacking. Almost as bad as it was in 2014. We don't even have the younger Shojaei and Dejagah anymore. And who the hell knows what this Ghoddos guy is capable of. He won't get much exposure before the WC anyway.

    Defensively Iran is as good as a top 20 team can be (probably one of the best). But then again, that's only half of football.


  8. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bache Tehroon View Post
    I don't believe we have. How would we know anyway? We haven't played a dominant side since the last world cup.

    Even against a pathetic Korea we got badly boxed in for continuous minutes at a time. Jalal Hosseini, as good a defender as he is, just sits way too deep and brings the entire team back with him.

    We thought we had found a jewel in Ezzatollahi. Apparently we were wrong. The kid is not dependable. He could've been the key to breaking Nekounam's lazy and slow trend, but he's too hot-headed and not skillful enough.

    Overall, Iran's offensive game and build-up play is extremely lacking. Almost as bad as it was in 2014. We don't even have the younger Shojaei and Dejagah anymore. And who the hell knows what this Ghoddos guy is capable of. He won't get much exposure before the WC anyway.

    Defensively Iran is as good as a top 20 team can be (probably one of the best). But then again, that's only half of football.
    Are you saying the team is not more skilled than 2014?
    Sardar 22 goals in 28 matches.
    Taremi a goal or assist in almost every cap.
    We have guys like Kaveh, Gucci, Karim on bench who could have been starter in any TM since 2006.
    Milad Mohammadi a very solid LB.
    Either of Ghafouri, Rezaein ok choices in RB.
    Pouraligaji a very solid CD. Beside Jalal who is still very reliable despite the age.
    Ghoddos, Dejagah will be good choices. Dejagah actually well rested and should be key player one more time. Add JB too who needs to raise his game in NT level as well.
    I agree about Ezzatollahi his game dropped but other than him we are much stronger team compare to 4 years ago. There is no question about. You never liked Nekounam anyway lol ..
    But on serious note the only advantage of 2014 team compare to now was Neko-Ando duo. We don't have it now!!

    4 years a go we only had Dejagah in Fulham and Gucci in Belgium. Now there are 11-12 who play outside. Not top leagues but still much much better than IPL.

  9. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babr View Post
    Are you saying the team is not more skilled than 2014?
    Sardar 22 goals in 28 matches.
    Taremi a goal or assist in almost every cap.
    We have guys like Kaveh, Gucci, Karim on bench who could have been starter in any TM since 2006.
    Milad Mohammadi a very solid LB.
    Either of Ghafouri, Rezaein ok choices in RB.
    Pouraligaji a very solid CD. Beside Jalal who is still very reliable despite the age.
    Ghoddos, Dejagah will be good choices. Dejagah actually well rested and should be key player one more time. Add JB too who needs to raise his game in NT level as well.
    I agree about Ezzatollahi his game dropped but other than him we are much stronger team compare to 4 years ago. There is no question about. You never liked Nekounam anyway lol ..
    But on serious note the only advantage of 2014 team compare to now was Neko-Ando duo. We don't have it now!!

    4 years a go we only had Dejagah in Fulham and Gucci in Belgium. Now there are 11-12 who play outside. Not top leagues but still much much better than IPL.
    No way to tell.

    The goals, assists, clean-sheets and all have been obtained against evidently weakened Asian opponents.

    It's hard to deny the added depth in our squad, but it's also hard to make a case for added competitiveness against tougher opponents than Korea or Uzbekistan.

    In the game against Russia Iran did look okay at times, but not a single soul in this world can actually quantify Russia's quality or position in football these days. They're such a shit team at times it's hard to see them beat even the likes of UAE, but they can also be half decent. Again, not a definitive test at all. Even then, Iran still looked extremely defensive against the weakest Russia in decades.

    Kollan Iran doesn't have a midfield. It's basically 8 defenders and 2 strikers most times. Very hard to score goals like that. Also, pretty stupid to think Iran can ever come back from being 1-0 or 2-0 down. It's not happening. If Iran concedes a goal, it's pretty much game over. This is generally unacceptable in football, but it can work in short tournaments.


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  11. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bache Tehroon View Post
    No way to tell.

    The goals, assists, clean-sheets and all have been obtained against evidently weakened Asian opponents.

    It's hard to deny the added depth in our squad, but it's also hard to make a case for added competitiveness against tougher opponents than Korea or Uzbekistan.

    In the game against Russia Iran did look okay at times, but not a single soul in this world can actually quantify Russia's quality or position in football these days. They're such a shit team at times it's hard to see them beat even the likes of UAE, but they can also be half decent. Again, not a definitive test at all. Even then, Iran still looked extremely defensive against the weakest Russia in decades.

    Kollan Iran doesn't have a midfield. It's basically 8 defenders and 2 strikers most times. Very hard to score goals like that. Also, pretty stupid to think Iran can ever come back from being 1-0 or 2-0 down. It's not happening. If Iran concedes a goal, it's pretty much game over. This is generally unacceptable in football, but it can work in short tournaments.
    That is true what you said about Russia, they haven't been quite the same since the collapse of the ZSSR but when are we going to know if Iran is in pot 3 or pot 4? To be fair too, the level of competition in Asia improved, take a look at Syria, they are not as bad as we thought. My question is did we do enough to save ourselves and go into pot three? I know they are doing the group draw soon and the October fifa rankings should come out. As for Russia Iran game, considering they beat Korea 4-2, well the same guy on Korea's team scored twice but they have the potential to be good. They looked good at times vs Russia but a 1-1 tie on the road is a good result. I HOPE we did enough to save ourselves. The only time Russia had some success, post ZSSR/CCCP era, was in the UEFA Euros, when Gus Hiddink was their head coach, I believe they made it to the semi finals. Other than that, they have not done much. They can beat most Asian(minus Iran, CONCACAF(minus maybe Mexico) and African teams. They can beat the Eastern Euro and lesser SA teams but they can't take the good Western Euro and SA teams, it is not like it was before, when they made it to three UEFA Euro's and won one.
    Last edited by TeamMeli; 15-10-2017 at 06:54 PM.

  12. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babr View Post
    Are you saying the team is not more skilled than 2014?
    Sardar 22 goals in 28 matches.
    Taremi a goal or assist in almost every cap.
    We have guys like Kaveh, Gucci, Karim on bench who could have been starter in any TM since 2006.
    Milad Mohammadi a very solid LB.
    Either of Ghafouri, Rezaein ok choices in RB.
    Pouraligaji a very solid CD. Beside Jalal who is still very reliable despite the age.
    Ghoddos, Dejagah will be good choices. Dejagah actually well rested and should be key player one more time. Add JB too who needs to raise his game in NT level as well.
    I agree about Ezzatollahi his game dropped but other than him we are much stronger team compare to 4 years ago. There is no question about. You never liked Nekounam anyway lol ..
    But on serious note the only advantage of 2014 team compare to now was Neko-Ando duo. We don't have it now!!

    4 years a go we only had Dejagah in Fulham and Gucci in Belgium. Now there are 11-12 who play outside. Not top leagues but still much much better than IPL.
    To be fair, at that time we also had the iron man of the WC, Pouladi! We had 3 other reliable defenders in Hosseini, Montazeri and Sadeghi! Both Dejagah and Gucci were young and in European top forms. Add to that Nekounam and Teymourian, a young Haji Safi in the LAM position and a 20 year old Jahanbakhsh who'd just joined NEC. I don't think we were worse than now at that time. In fact far from it! The only advantage in today's TM is having more European experience. That's all.

    In fact if we categorize TM of both times in possession of 100% reliable starters for different positions, we'd have:

    TM2014: Dejagah, Gucci, Nekounam, Teymourian, Hosseini, Montazeri, Sadeghi, Pouladi, Haji Safi = 9 fully reliable starter positions.

    TM2017: Hosseini, Milad Mohammadi, Rezaei/Ghafouri, maybe Pouraliganji= 4 positions to be honest.

    Azmoun is out of form despite scoring goals against Asian teams for TM. He's not yet proven against European teams in TM (yes 1 goal against Russia).
    Taremi: Begir nagir dare. Sometimes he plays out of this world, sometimes he can not score in front of the open goal even if his life depended on it.
    Jahanbakhsh: plays in a lower level in TM
    Ezatollahi: Inconsistent
    Dejagah: Not very young anymore
    Shojaei: Not very young anymore
    Haji Safi: Not the same player of 4 years ago.
    Ghoddos: Still unknown.
    Torabi: would have been a great reliable player if CQ started him.
    Gucci: Not a starter. hasn't scored a goal for a very long time.
    Ansarifard: Very inconsistent. Not a starter.
    Amiri: Slow and ineffective nowadays.

    Even if you add both Azmoun and Taremi in among the reliable starters, we'd still be left with only 6 positions.

    CQ and IFF really need to use the Fifa friendly days for finding those reliable starters we need! Otherwise we'll be screwed.
    Last edited by Sly; 15-10-2017 at 09:20 PM.

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  13. #85
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    Forget about individual comparisons. This is a bettr TEAM than the ine we had 3-4 years ago. However, even a good draw doesn’t necessarily mean getting through to next round but at the same time it is not far from reach.

  14. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Payandeh Iran View Post
    Forget about individual comparisons. This is a bettr TEAM than the ine we had 3-4 years ago. However, even a good draw doesn’t necessarily mean getting through to next round but at the same time it is not far from reach.
    This is a very important WC for us for this key reason. IF we get a good draw and IF we go to the second round, when CQ leaves, the IFF will be forced to hire a good coach. IF we do not go to the second round, then they will go cheap and get a dolati coach. I happen to agree a good draw does not necessarily ensure us a 2nd round spot but this team is more experienced it is not out of reach., like it was four years ago. They have a nice mix of veterans and young players and the team is overall stacked. Even Birnavand looked good against Russia, the goal that Russia scored was not his fault, it was the one lapse we had on defense. Even without seeing the draw, I like our chances, compared to the last WC. I just hope we did enough to save ourselves and go back to pot 3.

  15. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Payandeh Iran View Post
    Forget about individual comparisons. This is a bettr TEAM than the ine we had 3-4 years ago. However, even a good draw doesn’t necessarily mean getting through to next round but at the same time it is not far from reach.
    THAT i agree with! We have a better TEAM than we had when we had just qualified to the WC2014! Let's see what CQ can make out of it for this WC!

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  17. #88
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    Even individually...

    Haghighi=Damagh or anyone else
    PAG>Sadeghi
    Rezaeian/Ghafouri> Montazeri(as RB)
    Milad=(or even better) Pouladi as LB
    Javad> Ezzatollahi
    Ando>Hajsafi or Ebrahimi

    Jahanbakhsh/Torabi/Ghoddos>Heydari(as RM in 2014 World Cup)
    Taremi>Hajsafi(as LW)
    Azmoun>Gucci(22 goals in 28 matches)
    Dejagah/Ghoddos/Shojaei.. Probbaly at the same level of 4 years ago, but older in case of Masoud and Dejagah.

    Overall as i said the only disadvantage compare to 14 is two DM positions.

    BUT,

    We have a deeper bench, way deeper, Ghafouri(or Rezaeian), Montazeri, Cheshmi, Aghaei, Karim, Kaveh, Gucci, Torabi, Ghoddos(or Shojaei if they invite him again), Amiri.

    We probably sit 4-5 guys who play in Europe on bench!! When was the last time this happened in Iranian football?!

  18. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bache Tehroon View Post
    No way to tell.

    The goals, assists, clean-sheets and all have been obtained against evidently weakened Asian opponents.

    It's hard to deny the added depth in our squad, but it's also hard to make a case for added competitiveness against tougher opponents than Korea or Uzbekistan.

    In the game against Russia Iran did look okay at times, but not a single soul in this world can actually quantify Russia's quality or position in football these days. They're such a shit team at times it's hard to see them beat even the likes of UAE, but they can also be half decent. Again, not a definitive test at all. Even then, Iran still looked extremely defensive against the weakest Russia in decades.

    Kollan Iran doesn't have a midfield. It's basically 8 defenders and 2 strikers most times. Very hard to score goals like that. Also, pretty stupid to think Iran can ever come back from being 1-0 or 2-0 down. It's not happening. If Iran concedes a goal, it's pretty much game over. This is generally unacceptable in football, but it can work in short tournaments.
    Again it comes back to the concept of building attacks from wingers, that doesn't mean you don't have midfielder, it is actually the other way around, the two DM play HUGE role in a defensive-minded system. Anytime each of them fail you notice it in the game. They cover lots of space compare to typical DM in an offensive space because they defend deep and on counter need to also help the attack and wingers. In this regard, both Ezzatollahi, and Hajsafi, even Ebrahimi are faster than Nekounam who was in his 30s in 2014.

    Having said that, i wouldn't be surprised to see CQ start Cheshmi in the first match next to Hajsafi or Ebrahimi(because of Ezzatollahi suspension).

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  20. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babr View Post
    Even individually...

    Haghighi=Damagh or anyone else
    PAG>Sadeghi
    Rezaeian/Ghafouri> Montazeri(as RB)
    Milad=(or even better) Pouladi as LB
    Javad> Ezzatollahi
    Ando>Hajsafi or Ebrahimi

    Jahanbakhsh/Torabi/Ghoddos>Heydari(as RM in 2014 World Cup)
    Taremi>Hajsafi(as LW)
    Azmoun>Gucci(22 goals in 28 matches)
    Dejagah/Ghoddos/Shojaei.. Probbaly at the same level of 4 years ago, but older in case of Masoud and Dejagah.

    Overall as i said the only disadvantage compare to 14 is two DM positions.

    BUT,

    We have a deeper bench, way deeper, Ghafouri(or Rezaeian), Montazeri, Cheshmi, Aghaei, Karim, Kaveh, Gucci, Torabi, Ghoddos(or Shojaei if they invite him again), Amiri.

    We probably sit 4-5 guys who play in Europe on bench!! When was the last time this happened in Iranian football?!
    Your comparisons are not always fair though. Heydari was a sub in the world cup and should not be compared with Jahanbakhsh (a starter) and Ghoddos (a probable starter). We don't even know about Ghoddos to know if he's really better than anyone in TM yet. Our RM should be compared with Dejagah in the WC2014! He was playing there while Masoud was playing as CAM and Haji Safi as LAM.

    and to me.... Dejagah 2014 >>>>>>>>> anyone we have in RM at the moment.

    Taremi is less of a player as a LW/LAM than Haji Safi was at that time. It's not even Taremi's real position there! And as said, Taremi is very inconsistent compared to Haji Safi of 2014 (as LAM) who was consistently our second best LAM after Khalatbari who should have been in the WC!

    Dejagah is waaaaay below his own level now than back in 2014.

    Amiri? I don't even think he deserves to be in TM anymore to be honest.

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