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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by keyvan_pars View Post
    doost nadaram.

    be har haal merci az daav talab shodanet.

    agar dalilesho ham mikhahi bedooni man mikham een soal ro az yek kasi bokonam ke taraf dare jomoorhi e eslami ye. shoma farmoodin zed e jomhoori e eslami hastin.

    hala playboy:
    please tell us when and where shit-e religion started. I am all ears.
    ولی من اسلام رو قبول دارم
    خیلی از مسلمونهای ایرانی ضد جمهوری اسلامی هستند

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by General Parsaian View Post
    ولی من اسلام رو قبول دارم
    خیلی از مسلمونهای ایرانی ضد جمهوری اسلامی هستند
    shoma aghide hatoon ro systemtically hezaaran baar neveshtin.

    oon play boy ro baram jaleb bood ke bebinam aghidash chiyeh...

    hala migeh man doost nadaaram raje be elaahiaat harf bezanam. jomhoori e goozesh elaahi e vali doost nadareh raje be elaahiaat harf bezaneh.
    holiness is in the right action not in god .

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meehandoost View Post
    Ok I understand your point. Why an All-Loving, Kind God allow anyone to suffer? His true servants, the ones that actually recognized His latest Manifestation and followed His instructions, why would they be left to suffer cruelty and indignity? That is a good question which deserves some reflection. I agree it is difficult not to experience anger and frustration. And I don't pretend to know all the answers. I only offer my thoughts and reflections and hope that that they may be helpful. Ultimately every one has to decide for oneself what makes sense and try to understand one's creator and nurture their relationship.
    the third word in your second sentence, namely 'SERVANT' puts the conversation on the hold. why does your god (now i am being specific rather than before where i talked about everybody's god) need servants. is he a slaver ? or maybe yourself see a need in yourself to be a servant. if the answer is yes to either please explain.

    to clarify:
    Q1: if your god needs a servant. why?
    Q2: lets assume your god doesn't need servants then why do you feel the urge in yourself to be a Servant ?

    since i hate the iranian way of questioning something without a possible solution.

    if your answer to Q2 is yes:

    then

    Q3: why would you rather be a 'servant' to your god (whose existence is drastically under question) than be a 'friend' to your conscience that exists in everyone no matter if they believe in god or not ?
    holiness is in the right action not in god .

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by keyvan_pars View Post
    shoma aghide hatoon ro systemtically hezaaran baar neveshtin.

    oon play boy ro baram jaleb bood ke bebinam aghidash chiyeh...

    hala migeh man doost nadaaram raje be elaahiaat harf bezanam. jomhoori e goozesh elaahi e vali doost nadareh raje be elaahiaat harf bezaneh.
    حالا شرط نیست پلی بوی مسلمون باشه
    من دوستانی دارم که خدا و پیغمبر رو قبول ندارن اصلا اتئیست هستند ولی طرفدار رژیم هستند !!ا
    شیعه های دو اتشه رو هم می شناسم که سایه جمهوری اسلامی و طرفدارنش رو با تیر میزنند!!ا
    این دو گروه کاملا سیاسی به موضوع نگاه میکنند
    اینطور فکر نکن که هرکسی طرفدار رژیمه حتما مسلمون و شیعه هست

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by General Parsaian View Post
    حالا شرط نیست پلی بوی مسلمون باشه
    من دوستانی دارم که خدا و پیغمبر رو قبول ندارن اصلا اتئیست هستند ولی طرفدار رژیم هستند !!ا
    شیعه های دو اتشه رو هم می شناسم که سایه جمهوری اسلامی و طرفدارنش رو با تیر میزنند!!ا
    این دو گروه کاملا سیاسی به موضوع نگاه میکنند
    اینطور فکر نکن که هرکسی طرفدار رژیمه حتما مسلمون و شیعه هست
    intori fekr nemikonam. man mikhaastam bedoonam oon chi fekr mikoneh. midoonam to chi fek mikoni, midoonam khodam ham chi fek mikonam.
    holiness is in the right action not in god .

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by keyvan_pars View Post
    the third word in your second sentence, namely 'SERVANT' puts the conversation on the hold. why does your god (now i am being specific rather than before where i talked about everybody's god) need servants. is he a slaver ? or maybe yourself see a need in yourself to be a servant. if the answer is yes to either please explain.

    to clarify:
    Q1: if your god needs a servant. why?
    Q2: lets assume your god doesn't need servants then why do you feel the urge in yourself to be a Servant ?

    since i hate the iranian way of questioning something without a possible solution.

    if your answer to Q2 is yes:

    then

    Q3: why would you rather be a 'servant' to your god (whose existence is drastically under question) than be a 'friend' to your conscience that exists in everyone no matter if they believe in god or not ?
    It's really none of those things. It is a statement of the spiritual truth of our existence, the relationship between the Creator and His creatures. In it there is the limitations of the language too. For instance the word in Persian is "bandeh" as opposed to servant which could mean "mostakhdem" also. Speaking of which it is interesting how we humans have no problem to be servants of other fellow humans for money, but sometimes find it so difficult to humble ourselves before our creator out of love!

    It also conveys a deep devotion, like when we say in Persian "nokaretem, mokhlesam, or chakeram" to another human being, we probably don't mean it in the literal way rather a sign of deep love and devotion for that person. It is a sign of humility and making oneself truly humble before one's creator out of deep love and devotion. And it has an element of service which we should all show not only to our Creator but also to our fellow beings.

    The closet example we can see in this material world to our relatioship with our creator is that of children with their parents. Children too humble themselves before their parents out of love and deep devotion and seek to serve them and live within their good pleasure. And love is the ultimate force that attracts us to our friends, family and our creator.
    شکرشکن شوندهمه طوطیان هند، زین قند پارسی که به بنگاله میرود


  7. #52
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    bandeh means exactly the same as mostakhdem.

    with a difference of the master in one case is invisible and in the other visible. The cause and effect are one and the same.

    about nokaretam o mokhlesam etc are also remnants of destruction of culture by religion. They absolutely don't show devotion or love in any of the above cases. If you have deep love for your child and you see that they are walking down a wrong path. Would you advice him/her that she/he might be in for some heartache/hurt ...

    if you have deep devotion towards your god when you see he/she/it is messing everything up as he has since he was invented, how can you express that to him ? where do you see him to tell him he is goofing everything up?

    if a child humble himself or herself before their parent(s) he or she is AN IDIOT. (or raised to be an idiot or moron) i am sorry to use that tone but could not find a better world. Child / parent relationship is not about servitude and humbling. It is one of the best friendships that could exist between two human beings. Not servitude and bowing down (not literally i mean mentally).

    this is actually a sign of hate and abuse not deep devotion that you mention. This is old men/women copying their god to water their dry egos by innocent children they brought into the world.

    ... and sadly everything you mentioned up in your post comes from religion. that is one WHY religion is the root of all evil. It hurts even harder at a personal level. I am sorry but you are mistaking submission for devotion. Two different things.
    holiness is in the right action not in god .

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by keyvan_pars View Post
    as a footnote i feel that i need to make a short comment about your reference to china and TM, about china all i can say is that I learnt a lot from his posts and PMs and if his tone was offensive to some people (never to me even though we disagreed on multitude of things), you need to savvy yourself in every situation in life to 'take away' whatever you can that adds to your perspective of things (e.g. other people's point of view) ...
    I think we are agreed regarding my question and your response, all good.... thanx for that!

    As a small reaction to your footnote, TeaMeli is a hell of a nice fella (character), awesome and actually inspiring sometimes still very funny of course, god bless.

    But Chimansky (character) I said funny, but I never figured out how he worked, every time I sneaked over here (the Forum) he was trying to get involve sexualy with the fella counterparty 'cause he was not agree with the same fella!
    I think it is very cultural and said much about him and where he grew up, maybe it sounds masculine talking like that, but here in this part of the world (I dont think he said things like that in a bar face to face) it calls being "queer" whether you give it or get it when you're trying to become intimate with another fella guy.

  9. #54
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    bro i have no idea what you are saying about china but i am sure your opinion is based on your real experiences.

    as long as you understand that i didn't mean anything personal i am happy.
    holiness is in the right action not in god .

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by keyvan_pars View Post
    bandeh means exactly the same as mostakhdem.

    with a difference of the master in one case is invisible and in the other visible. The cause and effect are one and the same.

    about nokaretam o mokhlesam etc are also remnants of destruction of culture by religion. They absolutely don't show devotion or love in any of the above cases. If you have deep love for your child and you see that they are walking down a wrong path. Would you advice him/her that she/he might be in for some heartache/hurt ...

    if you have deep devotion towards your god when you see he/she/it is messing everything up as he has since he was invented, how can you express that to him ? where do you see him to tell him he is goofing everything up?

    if a child humble himself or herself before their parent(s) he or she is AN IDIOT. (or raised to be an idiot or moron) i am sorry to use that tone but could not find a better world. Child / parent relationship is not about servitude and humbling. It is one of the best friendships that could exist between two human beings. Not servitude and bowing down (not literally i mean mentally).

    this is actually a sign of hate and abuse not deep devotion that you mention. This is old men/women copying their god to water their dry egos by innocent children they brought into the world.

    ... and sadly everything you mentioned up in your post comes from religion. that is one WHY religion is the root of all evil. It hurts even harder at a personal level. I am sorry but you are mistaking submission for devotion. Two different things.
    That's your opinion and you are entitled to it. I am not trying to convince you what kind of relationship to have with God, or even that there is one. That is your journey and choice in life. You had made certain assumptions about Baha'is which I wished to clarify, particularly about some of their teachings that pertain to the current struggles in Iran. Some of them were listed in that video that I posted by a non-Baha'i through his research and how these teachings were new and revolutionary, such as equality of men and women, separating religion from government and secular governance, rule of law, elimination of all forms of prejudice and freedom and equality of all citizens, abolishment of professional clergy, etc. Let's focus on that and bring freedom and justice to Iran by peaceful means that are consistent with those values, free from anger and antagonism...If we can agree on that then this conversation has been fruitful, otherwise as you said another argument with no solutions. Be well.
    شکرشکن شوندهمه طوطیان هند، زین قند پارسی که به بنگاله میرود


  11. #56
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    looks like the 'healing balm' propagandists were called into action by the high house.
    save your breath since in the 21st century communication age the old tricks don't work.
    'equality of men and women' is the saddest joke within the collection of all the jokes.
    watch minute '36:00' in particular to see how sex is used to cover up the absurdity of
    this joke.


  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meehandoost View Post
    Baha'is believe in all past dispensations including Islam, Christianity, Zoroastrianism, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc. one not more than the other, in the context of their time and that they all brought guidance relevant to its challenges. Baha'is also believe that all humans have received divine guidance in one shape or form including the aboriginals. At the same time, Baha'is believe that Islam and its teachings have been abrogated by the coming of the Báb and then Baha'u'llah. This is why it is an independent "religion" with its own teachings and principles. Baha'i teachings are the reason for the persecution of its followers in its birthplace more than anywhere else. Those who paint the Baha'i faith with the same brush as they do the clerical cast that has persecuted it for centuries, only do so to their own detriment, detriment of being deprived the truth. This is the tool of the mullahs: fallacies, suspicions, mistrust and prejudice to condition the people against investigating the truth for themselves.
    I totally agree with you about the tools of mullahs (which I don't think is unique to them but used by other religions in power before.) With all due respect, you avoided to directly respond to my question. What's your position on Mohammad being a prophet and Quran being a holy book? It is illogical to say that religions must follow each other. Bab could have said he accepted Jesus but not Mohammad. What's the position with respect to Mohammad? A man of God? Let's please have an answer without qualifications and justifications.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardesheer View Post
    I totally agree with you about the tools of mullahs (which I don't think is unique to them but used by other religions in power before.) With all due respect, you avoided to directly respond to my question. What's your position on Mohammad being a prophet and Quran being a holy book? It is illogical to say that religions must follow each other. Bab could have said he accepted Jesus but not Mohammad. What's the position with respect to Mohammad? A man of God? Let's please have an answer without qualifications and justifications.
    do you actually expect a reply ?

    the conversation goes on, question reply, question reply and at the end ...
    at the top of once you reach the critical point, all people of faith, say well YOU NEED TO HAVE FAITH.

    It is like leaving your entrance exam to a university blank and telling the professor, 'have faith that i studied' ...

    it is logically and intellectually impotent.
    holiness is in the right action not in god .

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meehandoost View Post
    That's your opinion and you are entitled to it. I am not trying to convince you what kind of relationship to have with God, or even that there is one. That is your journey and choice in life. You had made certain assumptions about Baha'is which I wished to clarify, particularly about some of their teachings that pertain to the current struggles in Iran. Some of them were listed in that video that I posted by a non-Baha'i through his research and how these teachings were new and revolutionary, such as equality of men and women, separating religion from government and secular governance, rule of law, elimination of all forms of prejudice and freedom and equality of all citizens, abolishment of professional clergy, etc. Let's focus on that and bring freedom and justice to Iran by peaceful means that are consistent with those values, free from anger and antagonism...If we can agree on that then this conversation has been fruitful, otherwise as you said another argument with no solutions. Be well.
    i know that you were not trying to convince. I never said or implied so.

    I asked you a direct question, to which there was no answer.

    I find this insulting and hurtful that you people of faith choose to opt out of conversations as you please. Why not be honest and say I DON'T KNOW.
    I say i don't know at least 20 times a day. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. (that is if our egos can take the hit)

    so again i ask have you ever asked your god why has he messed everything up ? Why has he created a man that kills, gets cancer, burns, is genetically not perfect ???

    would you drive a car that has three wheels ? would you, at the grocery store, get a paper bag with no bottom ?
    holiness is in the right action not in god .

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Playboy View Post
    looks like the 'healing balm' propagandists were called into action by the high house.
    save your breath since in the 21st century communication age the old tricks don't work.
    'equality of men and women' is the saddest joke within the collection of all the jokes.
    watch minute '36:00' in particular to see how sex is used to cover up the absurdity of
    this joke.

    where, when and how your religion got started? by which principles?

    till you answer that i am afraid nothing you present here has any sort of authenticity. as i said you need to be honest with yourself before people can believe you are honest with them.
    holiness is in the right action not in god .

 

 

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