ایران یک هواپیمای بدون سرنشین آمریکایی ر&#

R.BAGGIO

National Team Player
Oct 19, 2002
5,702
0
Toronto
I actually wouldn't be surprised if Iranians brought it down in this case. I don't know much about the military technology but we have some of the best electrical and signal processing experts in the world coming out of Sharif Uni. Some of the ones that don't end up in MIT or Caltech probably work for the Iranian military. just saying
 

shahinc

Legionnaire
May 8, 2005
6,745
1
I actually wouldn't be surprised if Iranians brought it down in this case. I don't know much about the military technology but we have some of the best electrical and signal processing experts in the world coming out of Sharif Uni. Some of the ones that don't end up in MIT or Caltech probably work for the Iranian military. just saying
Baggio Jan Aziz
Nothing is impossible.
But Bringing it down is very different by hacking into it, taking over the control and basically having a controlled landing in Iran.
I have had the pleasure and honour of doing research and working with at least 20 Shrif graduates before ( in a very similar filed related to navigation and remote control) and they are very smart men and women. However, the sophistication of these system , the medium that they use to communicate , the back up systems and ... makes it highly unlikely that someone can just hack in and take over the control unless the manufacture of these plans.
As I said earlier here, no one knows this system and what is using for its navigation or how it is controlled and ... so no one can really make the claim that they know what has exactly happened but the chance of hacking into this system, is less than 1% even though we have some of the most brilliant minds working for Sepah and Amry in Iran.
It is just that the technology and knowledge of the system and tools are not there.

But then I can be wrong and some of the Shrif graduates here can make a comment.
 
Last edited:

shahinc

Legionnaire
May 8, 2005
6,745
1
باریکالله سوگلی ، واقا دمت گرم که امدی و ثابت کردی که من چیزی که در مورد تو گفتم کاملا درست بوده و من خودم نمیتونستم بیام اینجا و دیگه چیزی بگم که به این زیبایی بتونه ثابت کنه که چه قدر در این زمینه استاد و اهل فن هستی. یعنی زدی تو خال عزیزم . اگر فهم تو از حرفای که موتوری زده همینقدر است و این چیزی که ما اینجا به زبان ساده و عامیانه گفتیم همینقدر است ، پس دیگه ما چی بیام بگیم. این مانند این است که استاد دانشگاهی دو ساعت در باره فیزیک هستهی درس بده بعد زلفعلی از آخر کلاس در حالی که انگشت تو دماغش کرده و با ون دست دیگه داره سوراخ کون پر از کرمکشو میخارونه بلند بشه و بگه، استاد، ۲+ ۲ میشه ۷ . زلفعلی انگشت تو دماغت نکن.​
 

Ardesheer

Bench Warmer
Jun 30, 2005
1,580
1
جناب اردشیر
حرف بیخود می زنی
این ترید و خیلی از تریدهای دیگر شما نشان میدهد که از طالبان هم تعصبی تر هستید
مگر تعصب فقط مال مسلمون و یهودی و مسیحیه؟
تعصب یعنی کورکورانه روی حرف خودتان ایستادن
قبلا گفتید عکس نیست باور نمی کنیم دروغه
بعد گفتید حتما افتاده و سی ان ان گفته تیکه تیکه شده
بعد که عکس ها و ویدئو را دیدی باز امده ایدو چرند و پرند می نویسید
خوب اگر تعصب نداشتید مثل عضو گرامی ایسامانی قبول میکردید
من مطمئا هستم ویدئو پایین اوردن هواپیما را هم ببیند می گویید روسیه بوده و کره شمالی
اگر مستقیما ببینید که ایرانی ها اوردندش پایین باز یه حرف دیگه در می اورید به این می گویند تعصب تعصب که شاخ و دم ندارد جانم
حالا بیا بگو قران گفته بکشید و نمی دانم حضرت علی چند نفر را کشته

:--confuse
Just like your Arbabs at IRI and your Prophet you make up stuff. All this stuff you said, only the last line is what I have said. There is no logic when it comes to your religion, so don't pretend you have any logic in you.
 
May 9, 2004
15,154
180
I don't have any RADAR knowledge so can't argue in that department but as someone who has done CLAY modelling for years ,what I saw was a 1:1 clay model of the actual plane which landed somewhere in Iran

Don't forget that the US confirmed the plane landing in Iran (either hacked by Russians or loosing control from US army )so I'm not doubting the whole story but I believe they showed a full scale model being built according to the real shape
جناب
به نظر نمی رسد که ایران این را به این سرعت ساخته باشد
همچنین قسمت هایی از ان که در ویدئو نشان داده شد به نظر نمی رسد با گل و شل ساخته شده باشد


[video=youtube;ivPq6_DMHwM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivPq6_DMHwM[/video]
 
May 9, 2004
15,154
180
باریکالله سوگلی ، واقا دمت گرم که امدی و ثابت کردی که من چیزی که در مورد تو گفتم کاملا درست بوده و من خودم نمیتونستم بیام اینجا و دیگه چیزی بگم که به این زیبایی بتونه ثابت کنه که چه قدر در این زمینه استاد و اهل فن هستی. یعنی زدی تو خال عزیزم . اگر فهم تو از حرفای که موتوری زده همینقدر است و این چیزی که ما اینجا به زبان ساده و عامیانه گفتیم همینقدر است ، پس دیگه ما چی بیام بگیم. این مانند این است که استاد دانشگاهی دو ساعت در باره فیزیک هستهی درس بده بعد زلفعلی از آخر کلاس در حالی که انگشت تو دماغش کرده و با ون دست دیگه داره سوراخ کون پر از کرمکشو میخارونه بلند بشه و بگه، استاد، ۲+ ۲ میشه ۷ . زلفعلی انگشت تو دماغت نکن.​
جناب
تو و موتوری اصلا انشتین
و ما زلفعلی مفو
قبول
حالا این زلفعلی مفو از جناب پرفسور شاهینک یک سئوال ساده دارد
توضیح شما در مورد اینکه ایران این هواپیمارا اینچنین دست نخورده پایین اورده چیست
جان خودت بیا خیلی ساده برای این زلفعلی بگو چطور و توضیح بده
منتظر توضیح انشتین گرامی هستم
امضا زلفعلی مفو

 
May 9, 2004
15,154
180
Just like your Arbabs at IRI and your Prophet you make up stuff. All this stuff you said, only the last line is what I have said. There is no logic when it comes to your religion, so don't pretend you have any logic in you.
جناب
چه ربطی به پیر و پیغمبر دارد
من می گویم شما تعصب به خرج می دهید و نمی خواهید چیزی را که جلوی چشمان خودتان می بینید باور کنید
هواپیما دست نخورده توی دست ایرانی هاست
به من بگو چطور چنین چیزی ممکن است
من در مورد هواپیما و چگونگی پایین امدن ان در ایران به این شکل سئوال میکنم تو می اید و میگی رژیم ادم کشت و علی ادم کشت پیامبر با عایشه نو ساله ازدواج کرد؟ و تو اوین شنکجه می کنند
:--wierd:
 

shahinc

Legionnaire
May 8, 2005
6,745
1
سوگلی شما پرفسور هستی . نوه راسپوتین هستی ، ای کیو ۱۸۰ داری ، حوزه درس خوندی ، تاریخ دان هستی ، سفر به ماه کردی .
گوگلی تو خدای این مسایل هستی ما اینجا هیچی نمیدونم در مقابل تو

. گی پی اک ، دوباره بخون شما این پست ها رو جواب شما رو ۱۰۰ نه تنها من بلکه موتوری و خیلی از دوستان دیگه دادند ولی شما این قدر استاد هستی، علامه دهر هستی، با سواد هستی که این مسایل رو نمیتونی بفهمی.

از اشتر که پرسیدی حالا شاید ان زبان جاندارانی مانند شما رو بلد باشه و چیز فهمت کنه

.وقته ما رو نگیر گی پی اک و دلقک بازیهارو بگذار واسه سفر بعدی به اسراییل که باید انجا جنرال رو سرگم کنی.

امضا تق زن مادر و زن و خواهر بچه های حزب مهر

اما حالا بی شوخی اگه هنوز جوابتو نمیبینی حتما دکتر برو شاید مشکلی داشته باشی

الان باز حتما ننه من غریبم در میاری که چرا به من توهین میکنی ..... پست های خودت رو بخون پر از توهین و فحاشی هست

 
Last edited:

shahinc

Legionnaire
May 8, 2005
6,745
1
Is it possible for IRI to have actually electronically sabotaged the UAV? Yes, anything is possible. But is it likely? No, it is highly unlikely. Unless they can actually down another UAV no one would actually believe that they not only were able to detect a relatively small and radar evading UAV but also to electronically take over its control.
.

اشتر جان میشه برای این گی پی اک توضیح بیشتر بدی !! ما که زبان این جاندار رو نمیفهمیم شاید شما بهتر بتونی حالیش کنی که چرا این یک چیز بسیار غیر ممکنی هست .
بیا گی پی اک ، دارم برات معلم کمکی میگیرم ، باز نگی چرا توهین میکنید به من گی پی اک .
 
Nov 10, 2002
9,738
785
These are the scenarios:
[1]
The US lost control of their drone and probably the system has a secondary control mechanism using satellite that landed it in somewhere remote ...
The Iranian army found the drone sooner than the American did ...

Now they are showing it on TV as the big achievement !!

[2]
The American's removed all the high tech stuff from the drone and just using this as an excuse to use it again Iran some day

The possibility that they actually took control of the drone is almost none ... let's say you even know the encryption algorithm ...
they probably have a protocol written to control the device and they found that out in a fraction of a second ... Any engineer who has done
any implementation knows that testing a protocol or even a small hand-shaking takes months ...

Even if Iran had a drone and American stole it, I would have had the same idea ... I don't' want to discredit anyone just common sense.
 
Aug 27, 2005
8,688
0
Band e 209
Is it possible for IRI to have actually electronically sabotaged the UAV? Yes, anything is possible. But is it likely? No, it is highly unlikely. Unless they can actually down another UAV no one would actually believe that they not only were able to detect a relatively small and radar evading UAV but also to electronically take over its control.
Captain,
Sabotage, Yes. Take over the controls, not with present technology available to Iran.

As I mentioned earlier, Iran could easily break up the SATCOM link if they could anticipate the proximity of where the craft would be and what time. This can be easily done by simple HUMINT, without even using sophisticated Intel assets. I'll explain how this could be possible below

Their are only two questions for me. One, how did the Iranians find out that there was a UAV crash landed somewhere in the vast deserts of Iran?
I don't believe this was a single "lucky" incident which made Iran take advantage of. I strongly believe they had a plan and working on it for some time which finally bore fruit.

451st Air Expeditionary Wing (451 AEW) U.S air force base in Kandahar is where the RQ-170 is stationed. There are 1000s of non-military locals working inside the base by which Iran could infiltrate her own operatives. All they needed to do just watch the sky around the Base 24/7 and observe "when" and how many of these crafts are taking off and landing. These operatives don't have to be working inside 451AEW, they can easily depict as street venders and such and constantly relay their findings back to Iran.

By studying all findings Iran can generate a pattern and finally anticipate the proximity of the craft's when and where about. This is similar to what Serbs used to achieve 1999 impressive shooting down an F-117 using simple and ancient SA-3 missile.

I'm guessing Iranian recovery team were already in the anticipated area before the craft resting on its belly on the ground.

And number two, how were the US agents planning to retrieve a 3 ton piece of machine inside Iran covertly.
I'm sure American authorities contemplated and studied possible missions to either destroy or recover it. But bear in mind that aircraft (piloted or UAV) crossing neighboring nation's FIR is pretty routine and happens all over the word, which majority of the time is considered as a mistake (error). But intentionally sending a special Op team or a B-1 Lancer to destroy or retrieve a valuable asset is definitely considered as act of war.
 
Last edited:

ashtar

National Team Player
Aug 17, 2003
5,448
19
Captain,
Sabotage, Yes. Take over the controls, not with present technology available to Iran.

As I mentioned earlier, Iran could easily break up the SATCOM link if they could anticipate the proximity of where the craft would be and what time. This can be easily done by simple HUMINT, without even using sophisticated Intel assets. I'll explain how this could be possible below



I don't believe this was a single "lucky" incident which made Iran take advantage of. I strongly believe they had a plan and working on it for some time which finally bore fruit.

451st Air Expeditionary Wing (451 AEW) U.S air force base in Kandahar is where the RQ-170 is stationed. There are 1000s of non-military locals working inside the base by which Iran could infiltrate her own operatives. All they needed to do just watch the sky around the Base 24/7 and observe "when" and how many of these crafts are taking off and landing. These operatives don't have to be working inside 451AEW, they can easily depict as street venders and such and constantly relay their findings back to Iran.

By studying all findings Iran can generate a pattern and finally anticipate the proximity of the craft's when and where about. This is similar to what Serbs used to achieve 1999 impressive shooting down an F-117 using simple and ancient SA-3 missile.
I'm sorry but your explanation of Iran finding out the course of the UAV is as unlikely as them actually taking direct control of the bird. Lets assume that Iranians know exactly when each UAV is scheduled to fly every day for the next year. Their flight schedule does not give them any additional insight on their mission, route, altitude, speed, point of entry or exit. And it's not like Kandahar is close to Iranian border where they can make a presumption of all the points of entry.



And even, if Iranians knew when the UAV was expected to reach Iran in order for them to deploy their jamming device they needed to be able to detect the radar evading machine. The difference between RQ-170 and F-117 is that even if your radars can't detect the F-117 you can still hear it and see it in the air and direct your missile toward it. But if you can't see the RQ-170, can't hear it and can't detect it with radar then how are you going to disrupt its electronics with a brief pulse of electromagnetic radiation? Unless you want to revise your theory to that of Iran using a continues (not a brief, pulsating) radiation for minutes to hours and thus being able to disrupt any incoming UAV. But even if that were the case one would expect the drone to crash at the border and not deep within Iran's territory.

Then, even assuming that they somehow got the hold of the intel regarding this specific UAV's mission, route, etc and assuming that they used a brief pulsating electromagnetic radiation to disrupt the bird's electronics and communication it still does not explain why the UAV would not crash to pieces or have it's contingency system destroy the machine in the air. For a 3 ton machine to glide and land flawlessly on its belly without breaking a wing or even causing a big dent it means that its main electronic and aviation system must have been working properly at the time of landing!
 
Oct 18, 2002
11,593
2
As every engineer knows, you cannot CONTROL a system before your reverse engineered it or know the design in detail. What code/signal can they send to the plane to bring it down? "Mashti, lotfan bishin!"?!!

As Jenab motori said, they might have known the route in advance and in such case, disrupting the communication line is quite easy and may have forced it to land, or some other similar attack. But controlling it is impossible unless we assume the Iranian army had already reverse engineered an RQ170 and knew the codes, or got the codes from the manufacturing company.
 

ashtar

National Team Player
Aug 17, 2003
5,448
19
As every engineer knows, you cannot CONTROL a system before your reverse engineered it or know the design in detail. What code/signal can they send to the plane to bring it down? "Mashti, lotfan bishin!"?!!

As Jenab motori said, they might have known the route in advance and in such case, disrupting the communication line is quite easy and may have forced it to land, or some other similar attack. But controlling it is impossible unless we assume the Iranian army had already reverse engineered an RQ170 and knew the codes, or got the codes from the manufacturing company.
How would have they known the route in advance?

If you're going to assume that they have intel and moles in the US army and CIA that would have given them details of a secrete drone mission why not assume that they have intel that would have given them the details on how to control the drone as well?!
 

ashtar

National Team Player
Aug 17, 2003
5,448
19
Russions may still be fooled if US have sent the wrong version of the airoplan. I reall wonder what the mission of this plane has been.
I don't think figuring out these drones are a big priority for either the Russians or Chinese. These machines are good for tactical and limited, low to medium priority commando type missions which neither China or Russia are at risk of engaging with the US in any foreseeable future.

In fact, it begs the question of why US would use this drone for spying on Iran when it has dedicated spy satellites monitoring Iran that can detect even a gulf ball movement. Not to mention all the human intel they have on the ground. What more could have possibly been gained through this drone that could not have already been gained by a spy satellite or intel on the ground? Unless the CIA was trying to provide intel backup for a limited commando-style operation (perhaps by either MKO or other outlaw Iranian groups) against a limited source in Iran which they could not justify the cost or changing the position of the satellite and thus they were using this drone. And I think in the middle of this operation the drone malfunctioned and they thought they could crash land it and have their team recover it. Which would explain how Iranians were aware of the crash land so fast as well. Because they were already involved in the scrimmage with the opposing group on the ground.
 

Ali(ISP)

Tottenham till I die
Oct 16, 2002
25,912
27
Southampton, UK
i'm not sure what exactly happened, but i can see an interesting link between iran's recent war games, which was held only a week before this incident.

The Thamen al-Hojaj war games began late on November 18 in Iran's eastern regions covering some 800 thousand square kilometers (500 thousand miles), the Iranian army said in a press release. Commander of the Khatam al-Anbiya Air Defense Base Brigadier General Farzad Esmaili launched the first phase of the drills in which air defense units of the armed forces were positioned in predetermined locations.

A large number of combat, intelligence and operational divisions of the country's armed forces in addition to numerous passive defense units participate in the latest military maneuvers. The initial stage of the drills will assess the units' performance in setting up primary and secondary command centers and stationing tactical and swift reaction divisions while adhering to principles of passive defense.

The drills, led by the Khatam al-Anbiya Air Defense Base, will also weigh up the preparedness of the forces involved and their interoperability, and appraise the operational capacities of all the equipment.

After the end of the exercise, the spokesman of the war game, Colonel Abolfazl Sepehri, told reporters that during various stages of maneuvers, the air defense command post assessed the effectiveness of air defense units’ tactics used to control and manage fields of operations and measured units’ level of coordination and precision, and their ability to act with speed and decision.

He also described as satisfactory the performance of intelligence, communications, logistics, electronic warfare, and cyber warfare units during the operations.

Rapid response units also managed to thwart mock enemy’s plans, using innovative and camouflage techniques and domestically manufactured mobile communication equipment and without using the country’s telecommunications infrastructure network, he added.
i cant find the exact article in mehr news, but they kept going on about electronic warfare and such. i guess maybe they knew something at the time.
either way, no one really knows.
 
May 9, 2004
15,154
180
سوگلی شما پرفسور هستی . نوه راسپوتین هستی ، ای کیو ۱۸۰ داری ، حوزه درس خوندی ، تاریخ دان هستی ، سفر به ماه کردی .
گوگلی تو خدای این مسایل هستی ما اینجا هیچی نمیدونم در مقابل تو

. گی پی اک ، دوباره بخون شما این پست ها رو جواب شما رو ۱۰۰ نه تنها من بلکه موتوری و خیلی از دوستان دیگه دادند ولی شما این قدر استاد هستی، علامه دهر هستی، با سواد هستی که این مسایل رو نمیتونی بفهمی.

از اشتر که پرسیدی حالا شاید ان زبان جاندارانی مانند شما رو بلد باشه و چیز فهمت کنه

.وقته ما رو نگیر گی پی اک و دلقک بازیهارو بگذار واسه سفر بعدی به اسراییل که باید انجا جنرال رو سرگم کنی.

امضا تق زن مادر و زن و خواهر بچه های حزب مهر

اما حالا بی شوخی اگه هنوز جوابتو نمیبینی حتما دکتر برو شاید مشکلی داشته باشی

الان باز حتما ننه من غریبم در میاری که چرا به من توهین میکنی ..... پست های خودت رو بخون پر از توهین و فحاشی هست

جناب شاهینک
باز تو مارا حواله کردی به پست های گذشته
جانم بجای این همه که نوشتی و توهین کردی فحش دادی بیا نوکرتم برای من بیسواد خیلی ساده توضیح بده که چطور این هواپیما دست نخورده دست ایران افتاده
بابا قبول امکان ندارد این هواپیما را کسی بنشاند و موتوری اصلا سازنده هواپیما و فوت و فنش را می داند و تو هم دستیارش
امکان پذیر نیست اوکی قبول نوکرتم
حالا بیا بگو چطور شده که چنین امکانی بوجود امده که هواپیما دست نخورده دست ایرانی هاست
یا خود ایران ان را ساخته با گل و شل ؟
یا امریکا هدیه کرده به ایران ؟
یا تکه تکه شده و ایران جمع اوریش کرده
یا ان رن ایرانی ها همانطور که ادعا میکنند نشانده اند
حالا شما بیا بگو نظرت چیه
جان خودت نیا و هی توهین کن و بگو تو بیسوادی و نمی دانم مادر حزب مهر و خواهر اعضای حزب مهر را چه و چه کردم
چه ربطی داره ؟
من بچه کودکستانی و تو عقل کل و همه را همه تک و طایفه ما رو هم گاییدی
قبول
الان بیا خیلی ارام توضیح بده
فحش و توهین احتیاج نیست
منتظر جواب جنابعالی هستم هرچند که می دانم باز می ایی و حرفی نداری و توهین میکنی و باور من بر اینکه ایران راست میگه و هواپیما را نشانده را دو چندان خواهی کرد

:D
 
May 9, 2004
15,154
180
Dear Natural,
No, it is not a mock-up and seems to be authentic RQ-170.
The tarp is covering the under belly damage which apparently happened when the craft crash landed "uncontrolled".

IRR claims they tapped into SATCOM link and took over the control of the craft, and landed it undamaged, numerous high resolution pix indicate other wise. If the craft was in line of sight and "closer than 20 km proximity" Iran could break the SATCOM link by emitting a heavy and momentary burst of radar beam and make the craft confused which ultimately use its pre-programmed software and land, or even circle in a holding pattern until the link is reestablished, or craft runs out of fuel and land with gears retracted, hence the the tarp covering under belly.

Iran is NOT capable of tapping into encrypted satellite communication signals in the orbit, neither does Russia or China. Other wise they could take over the world.
اولین باره می بینم یک هواپیما سقوط میکنه و فقط چرخهاش از بین میرود وتنه ان مثل دسته گل صحیح و سالم می ماند
خدا کند همیشه هواپیماها اینطور سقوط کنند
دیگه جان هیچ مسافری در خطر نخواهد بود
:D