There are a lot of wealthy Bahai's that live in Iran but they are the type that put their heads down and publicly don't talk about their religion just like Jews in Iran but Bahai's are more hated than any other religious group in Iran. Even Iranians that are against the government but are religious don't have a favorable view of the Bahai's because its a newer religion based on Islam . Here is a video of Larijani claiming Bahai's are part of cult and that they have freedom in Iran but are not free to advertise their religion . . http://youtu.be/3R5kow39A8s
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maziar95, I don't know what you mean by "putting their heads down", but Baha'is don't come out of their homes shouting their beliefs. However if an inquiry is made they share their beliefs. All should be encouraged to the same because it is through exchange and dialogue that truth will prevail. The Islamic republic and other Islamists don't want that because they rule by fear-mongering.
It is interesting that Larijani sticks to the same old and outdated "ferghe" (sect) argument. What exactly makes a sect and why should it not be allowed to share its beliefs, should be the questions Muslims ought to ask.
It is interesting that Larijani sticks to the same old and outdated "ferghe" (sect) argument. What exactly makes a sect and why should it not be allowed to share its beliefs, should be the questions Muslims ought to ask.
The emam jome in a shahrestaan has many legal and not-so-legal avenues available to him to get rid of any competition/threat besides murder. Ultimately, if he really wants something he just comes and takes it. If the theory was that a regular, non-connected person killed him for money it would have been a lot more believable.
Farsi Zaban, In the early years of the Islamic revolution, the government persecuted, arrested, tortured and executed Baha'is openly as a matter of Islamic law without any regard for any objections. Recently, perhaps with the advent of internet and other social media that make such information available at an instant, it has changed tactics to a more covert approach and as such they often threaten and attack prominent Baha'is by vigilantes who are members of its law enforcement or under its protection. This is in addition to the regular persecutions including prevention of higher education, intimidation, arrests, torture, that have also become more covert but intensified since the appearance of Ahmadi-Nejad and continue today with the new president and government. This is not surprising since the supreme Islamic leader, Khamenei, issued the recent edict directing Muslims not to deal with Baha'is.
These all stem from the fact that they are unable to prevent the growth of the Baha'i faith and whenever people come in contact with Baha'is and hear about Baha'i teachings and principles, they become attracted to it, attend devotional gatherings, spiritual education classes and if not for the heavy handed treatment of so called "mortads" and the fear of execution, many would join the Baha'i community formally. This is their real fear and in their dealings they have made it clear to members of Baha'i institutions that if they direct the Baha'i community not to teach the faith, they can go free. Of course no one, including members of Baha'i institutions, can direct other Baha'is not to teach the Baha'i faith as it is the spiritual duty of every Baha'i to share their faith with those interested.
In spite of the heavily scripted and staged interview, this was also echoed in Larijani's statement. The real question however is that, if the Baha'is are such a fraud as Larijani, Khamenei and others say, isn't it better to let them speak and make the emptiness of their claims known to the entire nation? Why not invite them on open live broadcasts where they can debate their claims and the grand ayatollahs can once and for all refute them and make their "cultness" and "gomrah" ways obvious to the whole nation? In general, isn't an informed nation better protected against empty claims? Why is it that the government and mullahs make this determination and dictate it to the nation? Is the nation not educated enough to understand for itself?
The other questions are, what is a sect (ferghe) anyway? what makes Baha'i a sect or a cult? Is a cult not a group gathered around one charismatic leader which gradually disbands after the death of that leader? The founder of the Baha'i faith died 121 years ago, why has it not been extinguished in spite of the violent opposition it has received? Why is it that it does not even have leaders today, but they are elected in open free elections without any nomination, or propaganda?
As for a sect, does it not mean a branch of a religion which believes in its prophet and book, but has disagreements with other groups over details? For instance it might be correct to view Shia Jafari as a sect of Islam as there are many others. However the Baha'i faith professes to have an independent prophet and book after Islam, how could it be a sect of it? It would be as much a sect of Islam, as Islam itself would be a sect of Christianity or Judaism?
Mr. Larijani, you compare Baha'is with the Islamists and terrorists in the West, my dear every one knows Baha'is never harm anyone including the ones that torture and execute them. It is simply because Baha'is have been trained by Baha'u'llah, that "it is better for ye to be slain than to slay", so Baha'is rather die than to kill another. If Islamists or any other groups for that matter, also taught peaceful teachings, they too should be free. Of course society cannot tolerate the actions of violent people who teach hatred and seek to advance their cause by intimidation and violence. You make such absurd claims on a scripted and censored TV show, but the truth will become evident when Baha'is are allowed to defend themselves and their beliefs in a free and civil environment and let the people decide for themselves. Will the Islamic republic let the Iranians decide for themselves?
These all stem from the fact that they are unable to prevent the growth of the Baha'i faith and whenever people come in contact with Baha'is and hear about Baha'i teachings and principles, they become attracted to it, attend devotional gatherings, spiritual education classes and if not for the heavy handed treatment of so called "mortads" and the fear of execution, many would join the Baha'i community formally. This is their real fear and in their dealings they have made it clear to members of Baha'i institutions that if they direct the Baha'i community not to teach the faith, they can go free. Of course no one, including members of Baha'i institutions, can direct other Baha'is not to teach the Baha'i faith as it is the spiritual duty of every Baha'i to share their faith with those interested.
In spite of the heavily scripted and staged interview, this was also echoed in Larijani's statement. The real question however is that, if the Baha'is are such a fraud as Larijani, Khamenei and others say, isn't it better to let them speak and make the emptiness of their claims known to the entire nation? Why not invite them on open live broadcasts where they can debate their claims and the grand ayatollahs can once and for all refute them and make their "cultness" and "gomrah" ways obvious to the whole nation? In general, isn't an informed nation better protected against empty claims? Why is it that the government and mullahs make this determination and dictate it to the nation? Is the nation not educated enough to understand for itself?
The other questions are, what is a sect (ferghe) anyway? what makes Baha'i a sect or a cult? Is a cult not a group gathered around one charismatic leader which gradually disbands after the death of that leader? The founder of the Baha'i faith died 121 years ago, why has it not been extinguished in spite of the violent opposition it has received? Why is it that it does not even have leaders today, but they are elected in open free elections without any nomination, or propaganda?
As for a sect, does it not mean a branch of a religion which believes in its prophet and book, but has disagreements with other groups over details? For instance it might be correct to view Shia Jafari as a sect of Islam as there are many others. However the Baha'i faith professes to have an independent prophet and book after Islam, how could it be a sect of it? It would be as much a sect of Islam, as Islam itself would be a sect of Christianity or Judaism?
Mr. Larijani, you compare Baha'is with the Islamists and terrorists in the West, my dear every one knows Baha'is never harm anyone including the ones that torture and execute them. It is simply because Baha'is have been trained by Baha'u'llah, that "it is better for ye to be slain than to slay", so Baha'is rather die than to kill another. If Islamists or any other groups for that matter, also taught peaceful teachings, they too should be free. Of course society cannot tolerate the actions of violent people who teach hatred and seek to advance their cause by intimidation and violence. You make such absurd claims on a scripted and censored TV show, but the truth will become evident when Baha'is are allowed to defend themselves and their beliefs in a free and civil environment and let the people decide for themselves. Will the Islamic republic let the Iranians decide for themselves?
I'm not saying its right for Iran's religious minorities for having to "put their heads down " but that's just the reality in Iran. Most Iranians have to put their heads down and shut up in order to have a chance to survive and Baha'is are no exception . Jews and Baha'is that are still living in Iran and are successful probably hide their religion from their neighbors , co-workers , and friends or else they wouldn't have a chance to be successful just like the Iranian born Muslim that isn't religious and hates the government that has to pretend he is religious and likes the government in order to have a chance at being successful . Larijani is an idiot , I posted the video to show what the official stance is on Baha'is by the IRI . Even the so called " reformers " like Khatami share the same view as Larijani .
Or probably not! It is easy to speculate, but as a Baha'i principle, Baha'is do not hide their faith and that is the reason so many have been persecuted in so many ways aziz jaan. There is no TAGHIEH (dissimulation) in the Baha'i faith and Baha'is profess their faith whenever they are asked. Unless they are not asked, otherwise when asked they tell the truth. This is also one of the sources of contempt of this government for Baha'is, for they would much rather for Baha'is to lie also, but they do not as a principle. With so many places asking for people's religion, and the Baha'i principle of truthfulness, Baha'is don't even have a chance to hide. Rest assured they are all known and the government has been collecting data on them for years.
The other thing is that as I said before, the government has changed its tactics to a more covert approach and they deliberately leave some Baha'is alone so they can say to the world, see Baha'is are free, but soon after they attack them too and this cycle will go on and on. This is what Larijani used in his interview also, otherwise why should a government know followers of what religion do what, as long as they are law-abiding citizens, why should it even matter what religion they practice or not. Likewise, as long as they are law-abiding citizens, why should it matter if they teach their ideology to others or not. If the ideology is as "gomrah" as they say, people will see it and stay away.
I don't know if Larijani is "an idiot" or very smart, but he knows there are no logical explanations so he tries to deflect the question and resort to fallacy, otherwise what is a solid religion to him could be a perverted sect to others, it is all a matter of perspective, but that perspective cannot become a justification for prejudice and persecution. However simply put, I explained the definition of cults and sects, which in spite of what he says are NOT the same, and Baha'i clearly does not fall under either.
The other thing is that as I said before, the government has changed its tactics to a more covert approach and they deliberately leave some Baha'is alone so they can say to the world, see Baha'is are free, but soon after they attack them too and this cycle will go on and on. This is what Larijani used in his interview also, otherwise why should a government know followers of what religion do what, as long as they are law-abiding citizens, why should it even matter what religion they practice or not. Likewise, as long as they are law-abiding citizens, why should it matter if they teach their ideology to others or not. If the ideology is as "gomrah" as they say, people will see it and stay away.
I don't know if Larijani is "an idiot" or very smart, but he knows there are no logical explanations so he tries to deflect the question and resort to fallacy, otherwise what is a solid religion to him could be a perverted sect to others, it is all a matter of perspective, but that perspective cannot become a justification for prejudice and persecution. However simply put, I explained the definition of cults and sects, which in spite of what he says are NOT the same, and Baha'i clearly does not fall under either.
Comparison is incorrect!
I wish Bahaeis had 10% of the freedom which Iranian Jews enjoy.
Jewish faith is recognized and officially accepted as minority religion in Constitution.
They are free to practice their religion in their own places of worship which are strictly protected against vandalism, attack etc
There is no restriction if they decide to attend higher academic institution.
No restriction for governmental employment.
On top of all they have 2 seats in the parliament.
If they get killed or properties looted by vigilantes perpetrators will be prosecuted.
I wish Bahaeis had 10% of the freedom which Iranian Jews enjoy.
Jewish faith is recognized and officially accepted as minority religion in Constitution.
They are free to practice their religion in their own places of worship which are strictly protected against vandalism, attack etc
There is no restriction if they decide to attend higher academic institution.
No restriction for governmental employment.
On top of all they have 2 seats in the parliament.
If they get killed or properties looted by vigilantes perpetrators will be prosecuted.
Well said Motori jaan. It is quite troubling how truly unaware some Iranians are of what has been happening to Baha'is in Iran, right under their noses, sometimes with their acquiescence! Recently a friend told me that in the early years of the revolution they arrested and executed one of their neighbors for being a Baha'i under the guise of being a spy of Israel. He said they used to think poor guy was such a nice guy, we had no idea he was a spy! They simply accepted what the regime told them that he was a spy but was a good man too! Now he understands his mistake in trusting the clerical apparatus and is ashamed of the atrocities his innocent neighbors and other Baha'i compatriots received for their faith. Such seems to be still the case with many others that they simply do not grasp the depth and severity of the injustices that have been heaped upon the wronged Baha'i community of Iran...
That some people make some successful Baha'i businesses as touchstone of freedom and prosperity of the Iranian Baha'i community is quite untrue and unfortunate. Not to mention exactly according to the plans of the Islamic republic which no doubt in due time will terminate those "successful businesses" too. As you say, Baha'is do not even have the right to gather, they are not even allowed to elect their own councils to look after the spiritual affairs of their community, to perform marriages, bury their dead, their cemeteries are desecrated; their youth are not allowed to attend universities, sometimes even finish high school; they cannot obtain business permits, and the list goes on. These are all documented and copies of edicts of Khamenei are available where he has ordered all of the above. How can such a community which is larger than all other religious minorities combined, be compared with other communities that maintain their places of worship, are represented in the parliament and so on. The pen is overcome with shame to write that for instance years ago some people used to say Baha'is have tails! This is the level of ignorance breathed into the Iranian people by the mullahs from the pulpit that seems to linger on to some degree. This is the challenge of the Iranian society: to rid itself of the deep-rooted prejudice and passion, ignorance and arrogance, superstition and dogma that have been breathed into it from the pulpit...
That some people make some successful Baha'i businesses as touchstone of freedom and prosperity of the Iranian Baha'i community is quite untrue and unfortunate. Not to mention exactly according to the plans of the Islamic republic which no doubt in due time will terminate those "successful businesses" too. As you say, Baha'is do not even have the right to gather, they are not even allowed to elect their own councils to look after the spiritual affairs of their community, to perform marriages, bury their dead, their cemeteries are desecrated; their youth are not allowed to attend universities, sometimes even finish high school; they cannot obtain business permits, and the list goes on. These are all documented and copies of edicts of Khamenei are available where he has ordered all of the above. How can such a community which is larger than all other religious minorities combined, be compared with other communities that maintain their places of worship, are represented in the parliament and so on. The pen is overcome with shame to write that for instance years ago some people used to say Baha'is have tails! This is the level of ignorance breathed into the Iranian people by the mullahs from the pulpit that seems to linger on to some degree. This is the challenge of the Iranian society: to rid itself of the deep-rooted prejudice and passion, ignorance and arrogance, superstition and dogma that have been breathed into it from the pulpit...
Iran’s constitution also says there should be freedom of press in Iran but is that the reality ? no , its obvious the IRI only gives Iran’s “recognized” religious minority groups a couple worthless seats in parliament to paint a false picture to the outside world that Iran allows freedom of religion . Jews in Iran can’t hold important jobs in government , military , and academic field . Name one Iranian Jews , Christian or non-Shia that’s held an important position in Iran under this regime . You won’t be able to name any because the IRI system is designed to only allow religious shia Muslims to have any of those important jobs. It’s easy for us to recognize that the IRI is discriminating against Bahai’s because they do it openly whereas when they discriminate against Iranian Jews they hide it . I am trying to point out that Baha’is are victims of this government just like most Iranians , we can’t say Bahai’s suffered more or less than any group because most Iranians have suffered under this government. Here is an article about Jews in Iran that just came out , and a quote about a girl that had to hide the fact that she is Jewish in Iran which is something I pointed out earlier about Jews, Bahais and other groups of having to put their heads down and not talk about their religion publicly in Iran.
http://frontpagemag.com/2013/majid-...n-tragedy-irans-beleaguered-jewish-community/
OK buddy you can claim all you want that you were mistreated the most out of all Iranian groups since the revolution but I am sure the thousands of political poisoners , Kurds , Atheists , Arabs , Jews , Christians , gays and others that were killed, tortured , and imprisoned by these thugs would disagree with you .
This is tragic yes but i simply dont get it: These animals have killed, tortured and jailed tens of thousends of iranians and they still do. Vast majority of iranians are shiites so are the poor victims of these animals. Now when do people realize that this regime is all about "hefze ghodrat" and to secure their stay, they do everything they can and kill anyone who they consider a threat. In that regard, they dont give a fuck about if you are a shiite or bahaai. Now Bahais are some special victims. They are a target because their religion is based on some other islamic bullshit and they follow a bisavaad shiite mullah who started to write some ridiculous stuff in absolutely horrible arabic trying to open up his own noon dooni. Hamin aakhoond ke sardasteye in bahaai haa bood ro gereftan 4 taa too gooshi behesh zadan be goh khordam ghalat kardam oftaad. Baba inaa hamash pashme. Khode Shiie chiye ke kalle paachash (bahaai gari) chi baashe?
If you want to morn and raise attention then do it by leaving the religion alone. He is just another iranian victim of these murderous animals. Not more and not less.
If you want to morn and raise attention then do it by leaving the religion alone. He is just another iranian victim of these murderous animals. Not more and not less.
Just for clarification, I liked this comment (not the anti-religious) but that because most of the people who have suffered are Iranians (who the vast majority of which is Shia). I am not Shia btw. It is important to shed light on the Bahai's persecution. But to say they have suffered than this group or that is tough to say with certainty. We have all suffered. Sunnis suffer. Jews suffer, Shias suffer, Bahais suffer. Every Iranian outside the tight elite in IR suffers.
Anyway, Bahais and all religious and non-religious groups in Iran are part of the rich Iranian fabric. We need to stand up for all group infractions and injustices, then we will get somewhere.
Anyway, Bahais and all religious and non-religious groups in Iran are part of the rich Iranian fabric. We need to stand up for all group infractions and injustices, then we will get somewhere.
Hmmmm. Didn't you just say they have seats in parliament?! What do you consider an "important job", presidency or supreme nachosi?! There have also been Sunni cabinet members - we even have one or two under Rohani. That's a far cry from not even being allowed to go to university or having your burial place uprooted. All that aside, just because certain minority groups do not have the rights that they should, it doesn't mean we should become insensitive to the plight of other minority groups or even the ones that have some rights.
There is a difference between general suffering because of government policies and systematic discrimination - they're not even in the same ballpark bro. No other group in Iran will be denied employment or admission to university if they reveal that they belong to a certain minority group. And even if they were, it shouldn't make the systematic discrimination of another group okay, unimportant or irrelevant.
I'm not referring to you directly, but it's seriously hard to fathom the level of ignorance among Iranians sometimes. We spend pages and pages and threads after thread talking about the suffering of majority Iranians. People don't need to take a shit in the one thread that's drawing some attention to a minority group. It's really not that complicated.
There is a difference between general suffering because of government policies and systematic discrimination - they're not even in the same ballpark bro. No other group in Iran will be denied employment or admission to university if they reveal that they belong to a certain minority group. And even if they were, it shouldn't make the systematic discrimination of another group okay, unimportant or irrelevant.
I'm not referring to you directly, but it's seriously hard to fathom the level of ignorance among Iranians sometimes. We spend pages and pages and threads after thread talking about the suffering of majority Iranians. People don't need to take a shit in the one thread that's drawing some attention to a minority group. It's really not that complicated.
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