9 Timeless leadership lessons from Cyrus the Great

Aug 27, 2005
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Forget 1-800-CEO Read. The greatest book on business and leadership was written in the 4th century BC by a Greek about a Persian King. Yeah, that’s right.

Behold: Cyrus the Great, the man that historians call “the most amiable of conquerors,” and the first king to found “his empire on generosity” instead of violence and tyranny. Consider Cyrus the antithesis to Machiavelli’s ideal Prince. The author, himself the opposite of Machiavelli, was Xenophon, a student of Socrates.

The book is a veritable classic in the art of leadership, execution, and responsibility. Adapted from Larry Hendrick’s excellent translation, here are nine lessons in leadership from Xenophon’s Cyrus the Great:


Be Self-Reliant
“Never be slow in replenishing your supplies. You’ll always bee on better terms with your allies if you can secure your own provisionsGive them all they need and your troops will follow you to the end of the earth.”
Be Generous
Success always calls for greater generosity–though most people, lost in the darkness of their own egos, treat it as an occasion for greater greed. Collecting boot [is] not an end itself, but only a means for building [an] empire. Riches would be of little use to us now–except as a means of winning new friends.”

Be Brief

“Brevity is the soul of command. Too much talking suggests desperation on the part of the leader. Speak shortly, decisively and to the point–and couch your desires in such natural logic that no one can raise objections. Then move on.”

Be a Force for Good

“Whenever you can, act as a liberator. Freedom, dignity, wealth–these three together constitute the greatest happiness of humanity. If you bequeath all three to your people, their love for you will never die.”
Be in Control
[After punishing some renegade commanders] “Here again, I would demonstrate the truth that, in my army, discipline always brings rewards.”


Be Fun
“When I became rich, I realized that no kindness between man and man comes more naturally than sharing food and drink, especially food and drink of the ambrosial excellence that I could now provide. Accordingly, I arranged that my table be spread everyday for many invitees, all of whom would dine on the same excellent food as myself. After my guests and I were finished, I would send out any extra food to my absent friends, in token of my esteem.”
Be Loyal
[When asked how he planned to dress for a celebration] “If I can only do well by my friends, I’ll look glorious enough in whatever clothes I wear.”
Be an Example
“In my experience, men who respond to good fortune with modesty and kindness are harder to find than those who face adversity with courage.”
Be Courteous and Kind
“There is a deep–and usually frustrated–desire in the heart of everyone to act with benevolence rather than selfishness, and one fine instance of generosity can inspire dozens more. Thus I established a stately court where all my friends showed respect to each other and cultivated courtesy until it bloomed into perfect harmony.”


There’s a reason Cyrus found students and admirers in his own time as well as the ages that followed. From Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin to Julius Caesar and Alexander (and yes, even Machiavelli) great men have read his inspiring example and put it to use in the pursuit of their own endeavors.
That isn’t bad company

Ryan Holiday is the author of Trust Me, I’m Lying: Confessions of a Media Manipulator (Penguin/Portfolio). More of his writing can be found at RyanHoliday.net, and you can sign up for monthly reading recommendations through his reading list email.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanhol...less-leadership-lessons-from-cyrus-the-great/
 
Last edited:
Aug 27, 2005
8,688
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Band e 209
#2
The charter of Cyrus the Great, a baked-clay Aryan language (Old Persian) cuneiform cylinder, was discovered in 1878 in excavation of the site of Babylon. In it, Cyrus the Great described his human treatment of the inhabitants of Babylonia after its conquest by the Iranians.

The document has been hailed as the first charter of human rights, and in 1971 the United Nations was published translation of it in all the official U.N. languages. "May Ahura Mazda protect this land, this nation, from rancor, from foes, from falsehood, and from drought". Selected from the book "The Eternal Land".

This is a confirmation that the Charter of freedom of Humankind issued by Cyrus the Great on his coronation day in Babylon could be considered superior to the Human Rights Manifesto issued by the French revolutionaries in their first national assembly. The Human Rights Manifesto looks very interesting in its kind regarding the expressions and composition, but the Charter of Freedom issued twenty three centuries before that by the Iranian monarch sounds more spiritual.

Comparing the Human Rights Manifesto of the French National Assembly and the Charter approved by the United Nations with the Charter of Freedom of Cyrus, the latter appears more valuable considering its age, explicitness, and rejection of the superstitions of the ancient world.

Cyrus the Great entered the city of Babylon in 539 BCE, and after the winter, on the first day of spring, he was officially crowned:

My numerous troops moved about undisturbed in the midst of Babylon. I did not allow anyone to terrorise the land of Sumer and Akkad. I kept in view the needs of Babylon and all its sanctuaries to promote their well being. The citizens of Babylon ................. I lifted their unbecoming yoke. Their dilapidated dwellings I restored. I put an end to their misfortunes.

The description of the coronation of Cyrus is the most elaborate one in the world written by the Greek philosopher, politician, and historian Xenephon (Cyropaedia of Xenophon, The Life of Cyrus The Great).

On the day of coronation, Cyrus read the Charter of Freedom out after he put on the crown with his hand in Marduk Temple.

Uncertain and the full text of the Charter was unavailable until an inscription was foundering the excavation works in the old city of Ur in Mesopotamia. After the translation of the words, it was found out that the document was the same Charter. It is now kept in the British Museum and it is no exaggeration to say that it is one of the most precious historical records of the world.

In the Charter, after introducing himself and mentioning the names of his father, first, second, and third ancestors, Cyrus says that he is the monarch of Iran, Babylon, and the four continents:

I am Kourosh (Cyrus), King of the world, great king, mighty king, king of Babylon, king of the land of Sumer and Akkad, king of the four quarters, son of Camboujiyah (Cambyases), great king, king of Anshân, grandson of Kourosh (Cyrus), great king, king of Anshân, descendant of Chaish-Pesh (Teispes), great king, king of Anshân, progeny of an unending royal line, whose rule Bel and Nabu cherish, whose kingship they desire for their hearts, pleasure. When I well -disposed, entered Babylon, I set up a seat of domination in the royal palace amidst jubilation and rejoicing. Marduk the great god, caused the big-hearted inhabitations of Babylon to .................. me, I sought daily to worship him.

He continues:

At my deeds Marduk, the great lord, rejoiced and to me, Kourosh (Cyrus), the king who worshipped him, and to Camboujiyah (Cambyases), my son, the offspring of (my) loins, and to all my troops he graciously gave his blessing, and in good sprit before him we glorified exceedingly his high divinity. All the kings who sat in throne rooms, throughout the four quarters, from the Upper to the Lower Sea, those who dwelt in ..................., all the kings of the West Country, who dwelt in tents, brought me their heavy tribute and kissed my feet in Babylon. From ... to the cities of Ashur, Susa, Agade and Eshnuna, the cities of Zamban, Meurnu, Der as far as the region of the land of Gutium, the holy cities beyond the Tigris whose sanctuaries had been in ruins over a long period, the gods whose abode is in the midst of them, I returned to their places and housed them in lasting abodes. I gathered together all their inhabitations and restored (to them) their dwellings. The gods of Sumer and Akkad whom Nabounids had, to the anger of the lord of the gods, brought into Babylon. I, at the bidding of Marduk, the great lord, made to dwell in peace in their habitations, delightful abodes. May all the gods whom I have placed within their sanctuaries address a daily prayer in my favour before Bel and Nabu, that my days may be long, and may they say to Marduk my lord, "May Kourosh (Cyrus) the King, who reveres thee, and Camboujiyah (Cambyases) his son ..."

Now that I put the crown of kingdom of Iran, Babylon, and the nations of the four directions on the head with the help of (Ahura) Mazda, I announce that I will respect the traditions, customs and religions of the nations of my empire and never let any of my governors and subordinates look down on or insult them until I am alive. From now on, till (Ahura) Mazda grants me the kingdom favor, I will impose my monarchy on no nation. Each is free to accept it , and if any one of them rejects it , I never resolve on war to reign. Until I am the king of Iran, Babylon, and the nations of the four directions, I never let anyone oppress any others, and if it occurs , I will take his or her right back and penalize the oppressor. And until I am the monarch, I will never let anyone take possession of movable and landed properties of the others by force or without compensation. Until I am alive, I prevent unpaid, forced labor. To day, I announce that everyone is free to choose a religion. People are free to live in all regions and take up a job provided that they never violate other's rights. No one could be penalized for his or her relatives' faults. I prevent slavery and my governors and subordinates are obliged to prohibit exchanging men and women as slaves within their own ruling domains. Such a traditions should be exterminated the world over. I implore to (Ahura) Mazda to make me succeed in fulfilling my obligations to the nations of Iran (Persia), Babylon, and the ones of the four directions.

http://people.bu.edu/persians/archive/7/11/cyrus-the-great/cyrus-charter-of-human-rights.html
 
Feb 22, 2005
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#4
When you read the names used by Cyrus, they are beautiful names. Compared to Ali, Hassan, Hussien, Fatieh, zeinolab, Muhammad, mahmoud, , ugly names that are made by the invaders that forced themselves upon us.

Now compare the writing of Cyrus to Muhamad. Which one is more god like or supporter of a kind, compassion and a great god?

One forces his religion down the throat by the force of sword, and once you are taken, only death will allow change of religion. The other, give freedom of exercising religion.

How can Iran continue to burn due to the tragic disaster and backwardness than follows countries that follow Islam? When they can follow one granting freedoms?
 

ME

National Team Player
Nov 2, 2002
5,548
93
#5
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyropaedia
The Xenephon book is called Cyropaedia -
According to Wikki: "............In turn, many of the Founding Fathers of the United States of America sought inspiration from the Cyropaedia, and Thomas Jefferson had two personal copies of the book ..."
That is true. Thomas Jefferson in fact had special interest in Cyropedia and it is widely believed this influenced the foundation of America as a nation. Another great leader and founder of an empire, Alexander the great was also an admirer of Cyrus. Yet it is also hard to accept that the whole savage world of 25 centuries ago submitted to Cyrus on peace and diplomatic missions. I take what we know of Cyrus with a grain of salt, and think he was a great king, fine man, and with spiritual believe in good and of course with great knowledge if importance of public relations. The facts are he ran a mighty army and fought many wars and this tradition was continued after him by his successors. He was also considered a warmonger by some nations. Just read the story about his death, and how his head was soaked in blood by his enemies as a symbol of his ethernal thirst for blood. The world was not and still is not as rosy as it is portrayed.
 
May 9, 2004
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#6
When you read the names used by Cyrus, they are beautiful names. Compared to Ali, Hassan, Hussien, Fatieh, zeinolab, Muhammad, mahmoud, , ugly names that are made by the invaders that forced themselves upon us.

Now compare the writing of Cyrus to Muhamad. Which one is more god like or supporter of a kind, compassion and a great god?

One forces his religion down the throat by the force of sword, and once you are taken, only death will allow change of religion. The other, give freedom of exercising religion.

How can Iran continue to burn due to the tragic disaster and backwardness than follows countries that follow Islam? When they can follow one granting freedoms?
جناب
یعنی ما سرزمین های دیگران را با گل و بلبل فتح می کردیم
خوب حتی داریوش کبیر در کتیبه اش می گوید که وقتی اسرای جنگی را می گرفته وتیر در مقعدشان فرو می کرده و بینی و گوش انها را می بریده و چشمهایشان را در می اورده و دست و پایشان را انها را می بریده
و نزدیک به سه هزار اسیر را تیر در مقعدشان کرده تا خونرزیزی کنند و بمیرند
خوب فکر نکن تاریخ فقط گورش بزرگ بوده
شما یا تاریخی که از ان دم می زنید نخواندید یا خوانده اید و این چیزها را تحسین می کنید
البته در ان زمان چنین چیزهایی و گرفتن برده برای یک پادشاه تحسین بر انگیز بوده
چنانکه داریش بزرگ اینها را جزو حسنات خود می داند
و برای ان زمان همینطور هم بوده نمی توانید تاریخ گذشته را با قوانین امروزی مقایسه کنی و نتیجه بگیری
و کورش بزرگ به این خاطر الان مورد تحسین است که اعمالش با بیشتر قوانین امروزی مطابقت دارد
مثلا اگر داریوش این کارها را نکرده بود شاید ایرانی الان وجود نداشت پس کارهایش تحسین بر انگیز بوده که توانسته با کشتن برخی از اسرا و روسای اقوام گوناگون امپراتوری را حفظ کند
خوب الان یکی بیاید و بگوید داریوش جنایتکار بوده ؟
من قبول نمی کنم هرچند که با معیار امروزی چنین است ولی ما از تاریخی بیش از دو هزار سال صحبت می کنیم
همین حرف را شما همیشه در مورد اسلام می زنید که نمی دانم حمله کرد
خب مغول هم حمله کرد و اسکندر و تیمور و دیگران هم حمله کردند
بعد رفتند و ایران باقی ماند
ولی مسئله گرایش به اسلام اصلا ربطی به حمله اعراب نداشته
خود ایرانیان انرا پذیرفته اند و نه در طی دو سه سال جنگ بلکه صدها سال طول کشیده
مردم دیدند زندگی طبقاتی ب این شکل از بین می رود
تازه مگر ان زمان مغان دست کمی از اخوندهای الان داشتند یا دین و ایین ما از نظر کیفری و شرعی زیاد فرقی میکرده که شما هی می ایی و اسلام اسلام میکنی که انگار در سوئد سال 2012 یا دانمارک و نروژ زندگی میکردیم و اعراب سال 680 میلادی به ما حمله کرده اند
 
Feb 18, 2005
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#7
yani chi khodeh Iranian paziroftand ? :12: ba zoor bood na ba mayl ... oonham ke napaziroftand majboor shodand tarkeh vatan kardand raftand Hend ,allan ham beheshoon migand Parsian e Hend .

yek eddeh ziad ham moghavemat kardan o koshtehaa dadand ..namadeshoon ham Babak Khoramdin .

araba ro ham bezar baghaleh eskandar o moghol o Room o Roos ...

albateh vatan foroosh oon mogheh ham boodeh , harchi mikeshim az dasteh vatanforoosh haast ...ageh veleshoon koni farda tammam sotoonhayeh takhteh jamshid ro baareh container mikonand mifrooshand ...kooneh lagheh nasleh baadi o heritage o miraseh farhangi ...

barayeh oonha migan : cho Iran nabashad be tohkmam ke nist ... ravam jaayeh digar ke jaa ghaht nist .
 
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May 9, 2004
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yani chi khodeh Iranian paziroftand ? :12: ba zoor bood na ba mayl ... oonham ke napaziroftand majboor shodand tarkeh vatan kardand raftand Hend ,allan ham beheshoon migand Parsian e Hend .
yek eddeh ziad ham moghavemat kardan o koshtehaa dadand ..namadeshoon ham Babak Khoramdin .

araba ro ham bezar baghaleh eskandar o moghol o Room o Roos ...yek eddeh ziad ham moghavemat kardan o koshtehaa dadand ..namadeshoon ham Babak Khoramdin .

araba ro ham bezar baghaleh eskandar o moghol o Room o Roos ...

albateh vatan foroosh oon mogheh ham boodeh , harchi mikeshim az dasteh vatanforoosh haast ...ageh veleshoon koni farda tammam sotoonhayeh takhteh jamshid ro baareh container mikonand mifrooshand ...kooneh lagheh nasleh baadi o heritage o miraseh farhangi ...

barayeh oonha migan : cho Iran nabashad be tohkmam ke nist ... ravam jaayeh digar ke jaa ghaht nist
.
جناب
وقتی من می گویم پذیرفتند معنای ان این نیست که همه انها پذیرفتند چنانکه هموطنان زرتشتی و یهودی و مسیحی ما اسلام را نپذیرفتند و عده ای هم از ایران مهاجرت کردند
و برخی ها هم به اسم مسلمان شدند
ولی من هیچ جایی ندیده ام که یک قوم به زور مکتب یا کیش و ایینی را بپذیرند چون اصلا چنین چیزی امکان ندارد
حالا فرض می کنیم عده ای گول خورده اند یا این دین و ایین انها را به شکلی جذب کرده
این باز پذیرفتن است نه با زور والا شما یک نمونه برای من بیار که یک قوم در جایی مکتب یا ایینی را به زور پذیرفته اند و صدها سال از ان پیروی میکنند
شما اگر بروید و تاریخ اوخر دوران سلسله ساسانی را بخوانید می بینید که درست مثل زمان شاه بود که مردم منتظر یک جرقه بوده اند
اگر مسلمانان در دوران شکوفایی مثلا هخامنشی حمله می کردند نه تنها مسلمانان شکست می خورند بلکه اگر پیروز هم می شندن نمی توانستند حداقل ایرانیان را به ایین خود جذب کنند
ما نمی خواهیم باور کنیم که ایرانیان همانطور که اعراب عربستان به اسلام گرویدند به اسلام گرویدند
یا می گوییم به زور بوده یا نمی دانم اینها عرب هستند و ایرانی ها همه فرار کردند
بله عده ای از ایرانیانی متدین به ایین قبل از ایران خارج شدند ولی این عده اند اندک بودند
همچینی مقاومت هم شد ولی ایا اگر مقاوتی رخ داد یا بر علیه خلیفه بود یا باز عده ای اندک بودند که مخالفت کردند
هیچوقت هیچ ملتی که با فکری مخالف باشد نمی توان ان تفکیر و عقیده را به زور به انها قبولاند حالا حتی اگر هیچ مقاومتی هم صورت نده اند
مقاومت درونی و نا رضایتی از مکتب کم کم همگیر می شود
مثال ها زیاد است مانند مکتب مارکسیسم للننیسم در اتحاد جماهیر شوروی
هیچ کس با ان مقاومت نکرد بلکه اکثریت ان را پذیرفتند انطور به زور هم نبود ولی گیرایی نداشت و کم کم افول کرد
حالا باز کلیسا در مسکور و استالینگراد ناقوس می زند و مسجد در ازبکستان و تاجیکستان و بسیاری از شهرهای کمونیست ان زمان اذان می گوید
چرا با اسلام اینطور نشد
ان هم اسلامی که از طرف اعراب قومی که از نطر ایرانیان برده و پست ترین اقوام منطقه بوده اند
و هنوز ایرانی عرب را خوار می شمارد
اگر مردم نپذیرند و نسلها انران نپذیرند حالا در یک مقطع زمانی همه ایرانیان هم وطن فروش باشند باز نسل های اینده اصلاح خواهند کرد و ان مکتب را به زباله دان تاریخ می فرستند
این خاص به ایران و حتی منطقه نیست در تمام دنیا چنین است
ایرانی ها تا انجا در اسلام ادغام شدند که می بینیم بعد از مدتی علمای بزرگ فقهه اسلام ایرانی هستند
ایرانی برای اعراب تفسیر قرانش را می نویسد و شرح می دهد
ایرانی برای اعراب در مورد قرانش توضیح می دهد و حکم ها را تفسیر و توضیح میدهد
تاریخ اسلام را ایرانی می نویسد
حتی لغت و زبان عربی را ایرانی برای عرب به شکل امرزوی و نوین پایه کذاری میکند
اسلام زبانش می شود عربی و قران عربی ولی با تفکران ایرانی این دین و مکتب در سراسر قلمرو اسلامی جان میگیرد
خوب این ایرانی اگر نپذیرفته و بزور بوده چرا این کار را انجام میدهد
بجز ان است که این نشانگر پذیرفتن بلکه متقاعد بودن به این مذهب نه تنها در میان عامه بلکه خواص و علما و دانشمندان ایرانی است


متشکرم
 

Ardesheer

Bench Warmer
Jun 30, 2005
1,580
1
#10
^^^ You started with your nonsense again, GP. Where else people accepted a religion by force? Are you kidding me? You want examples too? Just like Islam, many became Christians by force, and their kids are still Christians after 100's of years.

I tell you what, you are forcing religion down people's throat in Iran today. How many women do you think will remove their covers as soon as you announce that it is not mandatory in Iran? How many people will eat on the streets during Ramazan? You don't need to go back 1000 years to argue whether it was by force. If the force is removed today, in 100 years, how many muslims do you think you will have left in Iran? Just like you said, I am not talking aboout Muslims by name, but those who follow the basic requirements.
 

Silverton

National Team Player
Nov 6, 2004
4,524
6
#11
Beautiful thank you.

A defining quality of a great person is even if your enemies respect you ... and Cyrus was respected and revered.
 
May 9, 2004
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#12
^^^ You started with your nonsense again, GP. Where else people accepted a religion by force? Are you kidding me? You want examples too? Just like Islam, many became Christians by force, and their kids are still Christians after 100's of years.

I tell you what, you are forcing religion down people's throat in Iran today. How many women do you think will remove their covers as soon as you announce that it is not mandatory in Iran? How many people will eat on the streets during Ramazan? You don't need to go back 1000 years to argue whether it was by force. If the force is removed today, in 100 years, how many muslims do you think you will have left in Iran? Just like you said, I am not talking aboout Muslims by name, but those who follow the basic requirements.
جناب
شما متوجه نشدید که من چی گفتم
من اجبار لحظه ای را در مقاطع زمانی نگفتم و گفتم حتی ممکن است بزرو یک یا چند نسل را مجبوربه کاری کرد و مثال زدم
ولی نسل های بعد انران نخواهند پذیرفت
شما مثال حجاب در ایران را زدید خوب همین مثال دلیلی بر علیه شما است نه من
چون این خانومهایی که بزور حجاب میکنند حتما به دختران و بچه های خود توی خونه میگویند که حجاب مزخرف است
بعد انها کم کم این حرفها را قبول میکنند و در نسل های اینده نه تنها حجاب را از سر خود و فرزندانشان در می اوند بلکه تشویق به بی حجابی هم میکنند
این رفتارها با پذیرفتن و عقیده داشتن زمین تا اسمان فرق میکند
فرض میکنیم بزور شما را مجبور کنند که نماز بخوانید و روزه بگیرید ایا نسل های بعد از شما یا حتی شما در مواقعی که زور بالای سرتان نیست نماز می خوانید ورزوه میگیرید ؟
جواب خیر است
برعکس به نظر من اگر یک قومی را بزور وادار به کاری کنی نسلهای اینده ان عکس العملی صد در صد مغایر با ان را انجام خواهند داد
درست مثل ایرانی هایی که بزور حجاب میکنند سرشان وقتی می روند خارج مثل روسپی های خیابانی لباس میپوشند و سعی میکنند از خود غربی ها هم غربی تر باشند
ولی عقیده با اجبار و تظاهر و مظهر خارجی فرق میکند
اسلام در ایران یک عقیده است نه مظهری خارجی
حداقل تا قبل از این رژیم اینطور بوده
شما تاریخ اسلام در ایران را نگاه کنید می بینید حجاب و نماز و اینچیزها بزور نبوده عقیده بوده
شاید این عقیده در فرهنگ رخنه کرده و به صوررتی در امده که جامعه بی حجابی را مبنوذ کرده ولی یک اجبار نبوده
ا نمی توان گفت اجبار باعث شد ایرانیان مسلمان شوند
برعکس همانطور که گفتم اجبار باعث میشود مردم در برابر ان شدت العمل بیشتری به خرج دهدن و نسل های اینده از چیرهایی که مجبور بوده اند انجام دهدند دوری گذینند

متشکرم
 

Flint

Legionnaire
Jan 28, 2006
7,016
0
United States
#13
General, explain this to us. Why did Iranians "accept" Islam as their religion but never accepted Arabic as their language? Seems to me the same force that made people convert to Islam could have forced Arabic on us too, but it didn't work. I really want to know why.
 
May 21, 2003
19,847
146
Not The Eshaalic Goozpublic !
#14
جناب
شما متوجه نشدید که من چی گفتم
من اجبار لحظه ای را در مقاطع زمانی نگفتم و گفتم حتی ممکن است بزرو یک یا چند نسل را مجبوربه کاری کرد و مثال زدم
ولی نسل های بعد انران نخواهند پذیرفت
شما مثال حجاب در ایران را زدید خوب همین مثال دلیلی بر علیه شما است نه من
چون این خانومهایی که بزور حجاب میکنند حتما به دختران و بچه های خود توی خونه میگویند که حجاب مزخرف است
بعد انها کم کم این حرفها را قبول میکنند و در نسل های اینده نه تنها حجاب را از سر خود و فرزندانشان در می اوند بلکه تشویق به بی حجابی هم میکنند
این رفتارها با پذیرفتن و عقیده داشتن زمین تا اسمان فرق میکند
فرض میکنیم بزور شما را مجبور کنند که نماز بخوانید و روزه بگیرید ایا نسل های بعد از شما یا حتی شما در مواقعی که زور بالای سرتان نیست نماز می خوانید ورزوه میگیرید ؟
جواب خیر است
برعکس به نظر من اگر یک قومی را بزور وادار به کاری کنی نسلهای اینده ان عکس العملی صد در صد مغایر با ان را انجام خواهند داد
درست مثل ایرانی هایی که بزور حجاب میکنند سرشان وقتی می روند خارج مثل روسپی های خیابانی لباس میپوشند و سعی میکنند از خود غربی ها هم غربی تر باشند
ولی عقیده با اجبار و تظاهر و مظهر خارجی فرق میکند
اسلام در ایران یک عقیده است نه مظهری خارجی
حداقل تا قبل از این رژیم اینطور بوده
شما تاریخ اسلام در ایران را نگاه کنید می بینید حجاب و نماز و اینچیزها بزور نبوده عقیده بوده
شاید این عقیده در فرهنگ رخنه کرده و به صوررتی در امده که جامعه بی حجابی را مبنوذ کرده ولی یک اجبار نبوده
ا نمی توان گفت اجبار باعث شد ایرانیان مسلمان شوند
برعکس همانطور که گفتم اجبار باعث میشود مردم در برابر ان شدت العمل بیشتری به خرج دهدن و نسل های اینده از چیرهایی که مجبور بوده اند انجام دهدند دوری گذینند

متشکرم
یک ضرب مزخرف میگی ها
مقایسه های کس و شر و بی ربط و همش سفسته
همون خدا و پیغمبر تخمی که قبول دری شفات بدن
 
May 21, 2003
19,847
146
Not The Eshaalic Goozpublic !
#15
General, explain this to us. Why did Iranians "accept" Islam as their religion but never accepted Arabic as their language? Seems to me the same force that made people convert to Islam could have forced Arabic on us too, but it didn't work. I really want to know why.
I have another question to ask him,

I need this KOS MASHANG to explain to me that why did Iranians (on paper) accept this thing up their back side but literally every single thing they do from morning till night (not all but majority) is anti islamic;

- eating western style foods
- listening to western music
- drinking alcohol
- fornication without aghd, sigheh
- partying, dancing and mingling
- following norooz
- following char shanbe soori
- speaking and communicating in farsi and not ape language (ape-a-bic)
- naming their children pezhman, anahita, etc etc
- sending their children by hundreds of thousands out of the islamic rule into the bosom of the western civilization
 
#16
General, explain this to us. Why did Iranians "accept" Islam as their religion but never accepted Arabic as their language? Seems to me the same force that made people convert to Islam could have forced Arabic on us too, but it didn't work. I really want to know why.
He will now tell you that this very point you are making is further proof of what he says :p
 

ME

National Team Player
Nov 2, 2002
5,548
93
#17
I think you guys are fixed at the different time points. Maybe it is better to look at the the temporal course of interaction between Iran and Islam.

-Late Sassanid era: The ordinary Iranians were fed up by zorastrain clergy which pretty much were doing the role of Akhunds today. They had vast influence on the government, were corrupt, unappeasing, owned a lot of fertile land, placed themselves above the man, ... The evidence is Iranians sought for christianism, mitraism, and manavism despite harsh treatments and prosecuation. The whole Mazdak movement, just revels that how the country was ready for a revolution to get rid of zorastrian priests, and for the most part their economic role in sucking blood out of the people's lives.

-Iranians embraced Islam is like saying jews loved Hitler! Clearly Isalm was forced brutally upon Iranins. Yes, there was a vacum there but Isalm just didn't fit in in a freindly way. People were disstasfird by the system, central government was weak (they changed 10s of kings in the last few years of Sassanids), Army was confused in the political mess up, and provinces did not stick up together, So the whole country fell relatively so quickly. Yet, for many years to come, people were resilient to accept the new religion and to submit to Arabs. Their resistance, lasted for centuries in places like Gilan and Azabajan, was met with harsh Arab forces. Those who were already conceeded, were reduced into sub-citizens.

-Iranians never managed to get rid of Arabs. Unlike the ordinary belief, Arabs didn't last long either but Islam did. Arabs were first challenged by the warlords like Aboomoslem or Iranian politicians who adopted an islamic face by then. But real force came from the central Asian Turkik war lords about 200 years after Islam. With short exceptions, the majority of Islamic empire including Arab, Indian, Anatolian, Iranian or else, was pretty much ruled by Turks (and much later on monghols for some years) from that point on. (North Africa was a different story though). Arab Khalifs were a face and nothing beyond. Arab citizens were downgraded to ordinary themselves.

-Over centuries, Isalm became people's way of life and their integral part of belief system all across Islamic world including Iran, The crussaides probably helped in this process to bring people together against a common foreign threat. Free travel and trade in the whole empire under the common Islamic identity, relative internal stablity, a common language...should remind us of today's relative calm in Europe after centruies of cold and hot wars.

-The intellectualls always challenged limitations of Islam. They were not tolerated.

-Over the time, in a back and force fight, Iranian identity emerged again. Sometimes in confrontation with Islam, they finally accepted that they can coexist. They of course in this process changed eachother from the original.

-Islam is becoming decreasingly popular in modern societies for reasons that are needless to say. That does also apply to today's Iran. But even todate, noone can deny its roots in rural and less developed parts, or even among more modern people when they face a volatile time. It is not accidental that secular Iranians, just regressed into shouting islamic slagons at their rooftops when they were helpless 3 years ago.
 
May 9, 2004
15,126
179
#18
General, explain this to us. Why did Iranians "accept" Islam as their religion but never accepted Arabic as their language? Seems to me the same force that made people convert to Islam could have forced Arabic on us too, but it didn't work. I really want to know why.
جناب
کشوری که تمدن بزرگی دارد به اسانی تحت تاثیر فرهنگ و لغت کشور و قومی دیگری قرار نخواهد گرفت
ایران کشور متمدنی بود در ان زمان
اصولا ایرانیان قومی هستند که نه تنها تحت تاثیر دیگر اقوام قرار نگرفته اند چه قبل از اسلام و چه بعد بلکه دیگران را تحت تاثیر فرهنگ خود قرار داده اند
اگر دین اسلام را هم پذیرفتند بخاطر ان بود که در اواخر دوران ساسانی از جامعه طبقاتی ان زمان و هرج و مرجی که بوجود امده بود به ستوه امده بودند
شما نگاه کنید از اسکندر گرفته تا مغول و بعد از مغول این غازیان بوده اند که تحت تاثیر ایران و ایرانی قرار گرفته اند نه برعکس
همینطور هم بعد از اسلام
در میان یک چنین ملت و قومی نمی توان زبان خارخی را جایگزین زبان مادری کرد
در بقیه کشورها بجز مصر اوضاع فرق می کرده اکثرا تمدنی انچنانی نداشته اند البته خیلی از کشورهایی که بعد مسلمان شده اند در اصل عرب زبان بوده اند
وقتی تو به کشوری حمله می کنی که فرهنگ و تمدن ان از فرهنگ تو غنی تر و پربار تر است نمیتوانی فرهنگ زبان خودت را به انها تلقین کنی
بلکه بر عکس تحت تاثیر انها قرار خواهی گرفت
در جایی میتوانی این کار را بکنی که قوم تو فرهنگشان از فرهنگ و تمدن ان دیار والا تر و غنی تر باشد
نه تنها زبان بلکه می بینیم سیاست هم بعد از یکی دو قرن بوسیله رجال سیاسی ایرانی اداره می شده و خلیفه تنها یک سمبل است
یا سراداران ترک و فارس بوده اند که زمام امور را در دوران عباسی در دست داشته اند و در اواخر این دوران خلیفه به یک ادمک خیمه شب بازی تبدیل می شود
که امرای ایرانی و یا ترک انها را بازی می دهند
این نشانگر ان است که فرهنگ و تمدن تاثیر هنگفتی بر زبان و ادغام شدن گروهی در گروه دیگر دارد
البته کلمات زیادی ان هم چون در ان زمان عربی زبان متداول منطقه بوده به فارسی رخنه کرده ولی همچنین کلمات زیادی که الان اعراب استفاده می کنند در اصل فارسی است


متشکرم
 
May 9, 2004
15,126
179
#19
I have another question to ask him,

I need this KOS MASHANG to explain to me that why did Iranians (on paper) accept this thing up their back side but literally every single thing they do from morning till night (not all but majority) is anti islamic;

- eating western style foods
- listening to western music
- drinking alcohol
- fornication without aghd, sigheh
- partying, dancing and mingling
- following norooz
- following char shanbe soori
- speaking and communicating in farsi and not ape language (ape-a-bic)
- naming their children pezhman, anahita, etc etc
- sending their children by hundreds of thousands out of the islamic rule into the bosom of the western civilization
جناب
بدون توهین و بی ادبی هم سئوال کنی بد نیست
در مورد سئوال جنابعالی
شما همه چیز را قاطی پاتی کرده اید
خیلی از ایرانیان هستند که واقعا معتقد به قران و خداو پیغمبر هستند و اول همه انها روز عاشورا سینه چاک میکنند ولی عرق می خورند توی پارتی هم می رقصند
نوروز را هم جشن می گیرند اسم بچه هایشان هم از بیخ فارسی است
و خیلی کارهای دیگر می کنند و به ایرانی بودن و تاریخشان هم افتخار میکنند همین اسما و رسما هم مسلمان هستند و خدا و پیغمبر رو هم قبول دارند
خوب که چی ؟
فکر میکنی همه مثل شما هستند یا هرکسی که اسم بیژن و پروزیز و نمی دانم داریوش گذاشت خلاص از اسلام متنفر است
یا هرکسی نوروز گرفت و روی اتش پرید و پارتی رفت خلاص از اسلام متنفر است مثل شما ؟
جناب شما خودت و خانواده و دوست اشنایانت را مقیاس هشتاد ملیون ایرانی قرار نده
اصلا مثال تو اشتباه است و همانطور که گفتم قاطی کردی
کارهای خلاف شرع کردن با خلاف شرع بودن فرق میکند شما هنوز این نقطه را نمی دانید
 

masoudA

Legionnaire
Oct 16, 2008
6,161
11
#20
Dear General
Stay out of this particular thread....it's nothing that concerns you.
I for one tolerate a lot on ISP....but I don't have the energy to once again educate the ill-informed.....and idiots who can't see the evidence around them.
Go watch a football game - Iraq is playing in Oman with a total of 22 people in the stands.....3 of them are sitting in the VIP jaygah........that tells an intelligent person all they need to know.