A Selection from "Resaleh" (Towzih ol Masael) Book of Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini

Aug 26, 2009
469
0
#21
much of what khomeini wrote is not islamic. if anyone is interested they can ask point by point and I will look into it. but many will remain happy with what they think they know. that is also ok.
 

Ardesheer

Bench Warmer
Jun 30, 2005
1,580
1
#22
For the first time, General has nothing to say and directing us to other Hezis for an answer.

First off, do you agree that if you are Shia, you must follow one ayatollah that has a resaleh?
Secondly, as far as I know, unless you tell me otherwise, resalehs from other ayatollahs have the same junk using different wordings.
Third, what Khomeini says matches the history that Mohammad married Ayesheh before age of nine and had intercourse after age of nine.
Fourth, what Khomeini says matches Koran's verse that women are like your "keshtzar" and you can enter them anyway you want.
Fifth, you cannot come close to Khomeini's credentials when we talk about Islam ... Grand Ayatollah General
 
Aug 26, 2009
469
0
#24
For the first time, General has nothing to say and directing us to other Hezis for an answer.

1-First off, do you agree that if you are Shia, you must follow one ayatollah that has a resaleh?
2-Secondly, as far as I know, unless you tell me otherwise, resalehs from other ayatollahs have the same junk using different wordings.
3-Third, what Khomeini says matches the history that Mohammad married Ayesheh before age of nine and had intercourse after age of nine.
4-Fourth, what Khomeini says matches Koran's verse that women are like your "keshtzar" and you can enter them anyway you want.
Fifth, you cannot come close to Khomeini's credentials when we talk about Islam ... Grand Ayatollah General
1-no
2-you dont have to follow resaleh
3-no again. According to oldest record Aisha (ra) was 17. In some other accounts she was anywhere between 17-22 years old. there is only one record of her being 9. that naration is by an old person who admited having a bad memory. but if you go by calculation (I can explain in detail later if you like) she was older. another fact to consider: when the prophet wanted to marry her, she was already engaged to someone else. he did not know when asked, and she broke it off with the other guy. so she was old enough.
4-how do you know if that verse from Quran is Makani or Zamani? it does not specify. Keshtzaar is a place to put a seed (sperm) to grow. that verse is meant also as "do not have butt sex" but Quran does not say it in those ugly words.
 
Oct 18, 2002
11,593
3
#25
I heard its illegal to bring copies outside of Iran since this book has become a source of satire and jokes. Pretty interesting to think that an akhoond would know anything but about sex and eating.
This is not just in his book. Every Tozih-ol-massael (resaleh) by Shia ayatollahs include all these topics in the same way.

In fact, none of them have actually written any of these books. These books of fatwa are mostly copies from older books that their students collect, and then the Ayatollah approves it for publication. There are sometimes minor changes as some may have a slightly different fatwa on a topic than others. But the bulk of it is the same, including the table of contents.

Most of these books are, in one way or other, derived from the first book of fatwa written by Molla Mohammad Hassan Najafi (also known as Saheb-e Javaher, which is his book), a top Sharia scholar who lived more than 150 years ago. After him, major mujtaheds picked up his book and made their own version.

Khomeini's book is called "Tahrir ol Vasileh", which as the title implies, has been copied from "vassileh ol Nejat" which is the book of fatwa of Ayatollah Abulhassan Esfehani a major Shia figu and Marja of early 20th century.

It is interesting that with all their claims to scholarship and knowledge, the two howzeh of Qum and Najaf still do nothing more than copying a book written by a man some 150 years ago!
 
Oct 18, 2002
11,593
3
#26
For the first time, General has nothing to say and directing us to other Hezis for an answer.

First off, do you agree that if you are Shia, you must follow one ayatollah that has a resaleh?
Secondly, as far as I know, unless you tell me otherwise, resalehs from other ayatollahs have the same junk using different wordings.
Third, what Khomeini says matches the history that Mohammad married Ayesheh before age of nine and had intercourse after age of nine.
Fourth, what Khomeini says matches Koran's verse that women are like your "keshtzar" and you can enter them anyway you want.
Fifth, you cannot come close to Khomeini's credentials when we talk about Islam ... Grand Ayatollah General
You are correct on all points.
 
Oct 18, 2002
11,593
3
#27
3-no again. According to oldest record Aisha (ra) was 17. In some other accounts she was anywhere between 17-22 years old. there is only one record of her being 9. that naration is by an old person who admited having a bad memory. but if you go by calculation (I can explain in detail later if you like) she was older.
Strange that no islamic scholar over 1400 years noticed those accounts that you mention. Because in every major Islamic sect, the age of marriage is set to nine solely based on the account of the marriage between the prophet and Aisha. If there is such a solid evidence against it, why no Marja has ever acknowledged it so far?
 

OSTAD POOYA

National Team Player
Jan 26, 2004
4,678
426
#28
This is not just in his book. Every Tozih-ol-massael (resaleh) by Shia ayatollahs include all these topics in the same way.

In fact, none of them have actually written any of these books. These books of fatwa are mostly copies from older books that their students collect, and then the Ayatollah approves it for publication. There are sometimes minor changes as some may have a slightly different fatwa on a topic than others. But the bulk of it is the same, including the table of contents.

Most of these books are, in one way or other, derived from the first book of fatwa written by Molla Mohammad Hassan Najafi (also known as Saheb-e Javaher, which is his book), a top Sharia scholar who lived more than 150 years ago. After him, major mujtaheds picked up his book and made their own version.

Khomeini's book is called "Tahrir ol Vasileh", which as the title implies, has been copied from "vassileh ol Nejat" which is the book of fatwa of Ayatollah Abulhassan Esfehani a major Shia figu and Marja of early 20th century.

It is interesting that with all their claims to scholarship and knowledge, the two howzeh of Qum and Najaf still do nothing more than copying a book written by a man some 150 years ago!

Thank you Deerouz jaan. Pretty sums up what akhoonds stand for. Shekam and under the shekam and lack of knowledge beign produced. Just waste
 
Aug 26, 2009
469
0
#29
Strange that no islamic scholar over 1400 years noticed those accounts that you mention. Because in every major Islamic sect, the age of marriage is set to nine solely based on the account of the marriage between the prophet and Aisha. If there is such a solid evidence against it, why no Marja has ever acknowledged it so far?
I don't know maybe because people usually go by tradition. they don't bother to look into things deeply. hence the issue.
but you can look into what I said here and see if I am wrong.
 

Ardesheer

Bench Warmer
Jun 30, 2005
1,580
1
#30
1-no
2-you dont have to follow resaleh
3-no again. According to oldest record Aisha (ra) was 17. In some other accounts she was anywhere between 17-22 years old. there is only one record of her being 9. that naration is by an old person who admited having a bad memory. but if you go by calculation (I can explain in detail later if you like) she was older. another fact to consider: when the prophet wanted to marry her, she was already engaged to someone else. he did not know when asked, and she broke it off with the other guy. so she was old enough.
4-how do you know if that verse from Quran is Makani or Zamani? it does not specify. Keshtzaar is a place to put a seed (sperm) to grow. that verse is meant also as "do not have butt sex" but Quran does not say it in those ugly words.
My understanding is that according to Shia Islam, when you get to the age of puberty, you must choose a Marja-eh-taghleed. I am not sure based on what version of Shia you are making these statements. This in fact is one of the major differences between Sonie and Shia. It's the Sonie Islam that does not require Marja-eh-taghleed.

With respect to Ayesheh's age, what you say is not correct. She was not 17 or even close to that age (unless people would age twice as fast back then). Even assuming you are correct, could you remind us how old your Prophet was? Don't tell me he was 21 or something. Wasn't he in his mid 50's? Why would a Prophet in his 50's marry a 17 year old (according to you)? Weren't there enough women his own age? Why marry a kid?
 
Aug 15, 2009
303
0
#31
Strange that no islamic scholar over 1400 years noticed those accounts that you mention. Because in every major Islamic sect, the age of marriage is set to nine solely based on the account of the marriage between the prophet and Aisha. If there is such a solid evidence against it, why no Marja has ever acknowledged it so far?
LOL, In Aghaye ThinPad bandeh ro dar Ignore list khodeshon darand. Shoma azashon beporsid tahsilate academic In Agha che ghadr hast ? Tahsilat mazhabi in Agha che ghadr hast ? Che ghadr be zaban va dastor zaban Arabi Ashenayee Darand ke intori ba Kamale etminan miyan migan ke in hame fogheh Islami va Alameh va Ayatollah va ....... " Did not bother to look into things deep" :) :) Moshallah be cheshmaye in Agha ke bayad X-Ray dashteh basheh in hame Deep hastan
 
May 9, 2004
15,166
179
#32
For the first time, General has nothing to say and directing us to other Hezis for an answer.

First off, do you agree that if you are Shia, you must follow one ayatollah that has a resaleh?
Secondly, as far as I know, unless you tell me otherwise, resalehs from other ayatollahs have the same junk using different wordings.
Third, what Khomeini says matches the history that Mohammad married Ayesheh before age of nine and had intercourse after age of nine.
Fourth, what Khomeini says matches Koran's verse that women are like your "keshtzar" and you can enter them anyway you want.
Fifth, you cannot come close to Khomeini's credentials when we talk about Islam ... Grand Ayatollah General
جناب اردشیر
در موراردی که شما فرمودید
در فقه شیعه هر کسی باید مقلدی داشته باشد و من به همین خاطر گفتم از مقلدین ایت الله خمینی بپرسید
یعنی سن عایشه در زمان ازدواج من در چد ترید جواب داده ام
با دلایل علمی و تاریخی
من نگفتم بهتر از ایت الله خمینی می دانم
در موردی که فرمودید یعنی زنان کشتزار شما هستند اگر دقث ککنید می بینید که در این ایه که ایت الله خمینی در اینجا از ان صحبت می کند یک نقطه قوت برای اسلام است نه ضد ان
وقتی می گویم اول فکر کنید بعدا پست کنید ناراحت می شوید
حالا چطور نقطه قوتی برای اسلام است نه نقطه ضعف
؟
;)

عاقلان دانند
 
May 9, 2004
15,166
179
#34
Strange that no islamic scholar over 1400 years noticed those accounts that you mention. Because in every major Islamic sect, the age of marriage is set to nine solely based on the account of the marriage between the prophet and Aisha. If there is such a solid evidence against it, why no Marja has ever acknowledged it so far?
جناب دیروز
بنده در این مورد در چند ترید پست کردم
می توانید دلایل را خودتان بررسی کنید و اگر جایی انرا منطقی ندیدید بپرسید

متشکرم
 
Oct 18, 2002
11,593
3
#35
جناب دیروز
می توانید به بنده بگویید مثلا چرا شما فکر می کنید زنان کشتزار شما هستند
توهین به زنان است ؟
متشکرم
General jan,
I said Ardeshir's points in that post (which did not say whether this verse was insulting or not) was correct. Personally, I do not judge a comment from 1400 years ago with today's standard. It may not have been insulting back then. But it is insulting now to compare women with a farm as if they have no potential or role other than child bearing.
 

YePaDoPa

Elite Member
Oct 30, 2002
3,160
147
#36
Ay Khodayee ke Khalegheh Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaari,
Mibinamet ke To Ghaaaaaaaaaaaaaari
Man keh fekr nakonam Vali Faghiheh moslemineh Jahan Azin Arajeef Gofteh basheh. Be Adameh Mordeh Harf Nabandeed Shab Miyad To khabetoon shomare telephone mideh. :(
 

Ardesheer

Bench Warmer
Jun 30, 2005
1,580
1
#37
General, saying that women are your Keshtzar, as one of the frineds pointed out, is an insult. I don't think you want your mother, sister or daughter to be someones' keshtzar, but their equal.

Also, a bigger point that you missed is the part that says enter them anyway you want. This is the part that Kohomeini says you can enter vaginally or annally.

If you want, I can post tens of references to several prominant history books that Ayesheh married your Prophet at the age of 6 and had intercourse at the age of 9. Also, Mohmmand was 53. Even if you say Ayesheh was older, you cannot deny that Mohammad was in his 50's. Could you confirm that?
 

YePaDoPa

Elite Member
Oct 30, 2002
3,160
147
#38
A sane person would not want that for his mother or sister. however, for insane people that is just part of being a good muslim.
General, saying that women are your Keshtzar, as one of the frineds pointed out, is an insult. I don't think you want your mother, sister or daughter to be someones' keshtzar, but their equal.
 
May 9, 2004
15,166
179
#39
General, saying that women are your Keshtzar, as one of the frineds pointed out, is an insult. I don't think you want your mother, sister or daughter to be someones' keshtzar, but their equal.

Also, a bigger point that you missed is the part that says enter them anyway you want. This is the part that Kohomeini says you can enter vaginally or annally.

If you want, I can post tens of references to several prominant history books that Ayesheh married your Prophet at the age of 6 and had intercourse at the age of 9. Also, Mohmmand was 53. Even if you say Ayesheh was older, you cannot deny that Mohammad was in his 50's. Could you confirm that?
دوست عزیز
تشبیهاتی از اینگونه بسیار است و تشبیهه زن به کشتزار منظور همان نطفه مرد و رحم زن است
هیچ توهینی نیست
چنانکه در خود قران مرد را هم مانند لباس زن تشبیه کرده
یعنی مردها بیایند و گله کنند و بگویند ما مثل شرت و کرست زنان هستیم ؟
خیر جانم این مثال یعنی شما یکدیگر را از زشتی ها می پوشانید
چنانکه شما در مورد کشتزار برداشت غلطی کرده اید
والا زنان کشتزار شما هستند منظور همان سمبل بذر و زمین است که از ان میوه ها می روید
یعنی رحم زنان و نظفه مردان
خود قران در جای دیگری راه خداوند را تشبیهه به ریسمان و طناب کرده است


متشکرم
 
May 9, 2004
15,166
179
#40
A sane person would not want that for his mother or sister. however, for insane people that is just part of being a good muslim.
جناب
بنده فکر می کنم شما با تشبیهات اشنایی ندارید
یا شاید هم کورکورانه انچه را که می شنوید پیروی می کنید


بله جانم