Abdolkarim Soroush : Khomeini was much wiser and more educated than Shah , HERE IS HALOO's WONDERFUL RESPONSE

May 21, 2003
19,844
145
Not The Eshaalic Goozpublic !
#3
reedam too soorat e har jakeshi ke had anything to do with this revolution.
shaasheedam too khodeshoon o deeneshoono o khodashoon.

yek sari jakesh bi hame chiz mese baghiye donya ke por e jakesh e bi hame chize.

az hamoon baazargan o sanjaabi kos keshi shooroo shod ta bani sag o akbar koose o baghiyashoon.
mesle een e ke mardom were riding a roller coaster instead of twisting in the air the coaster traverses FAZEL AAB E yek shahr ke hamashoon eshaal e khooni toosh daaran.

they wanted a republic, they got a republic.
they wanted eslaam, they have eslaam e naab e mohamadi.
they wanted kooni haaye zanoo zakhm o jakeshaaye meydoon tare to run things, they are running things.

cheraa een television e melli iran e modeer e kos kesh esh famil e farah pahlavi bood interview shah ba david frost and barbara walters ro too iran pakhsh nakard...

ke oon maadar jendehaaye dayoos mese OLAAGH nagan shah americayee ye.
yek mosht dayoos e bi cheshm o roo mardom ham bishtareshoon oon dore yek seri jooje fokoli e haroom zade nim che communist nim che eslami e kiri boodan.

hala mese pehen e gaav pakhsh shodan too donya o hamishe taa roozi ke bemiran har goorestooni ke hastan KHAREJI khanand bood.

oon javoon hayee ham ke ooja bedonya miyaan badbakht o bichareh ke bezanan torkiye ya beran camp to oghyanoos e aram
 
Oct 18, 2002
16,215
155
#7
If We want to stay strictly academic Soroush is right.

Khomeini had far more "education" than Shah or really than any other Shah we have had (that i can point recall).

Of course Soroush is not an idiot he knows that people interpret this as a political statement not strict academic discussion.

I am more interested to learn a lesson from this whole controversy

There is this common misconception among iranians "if education then good". (this is basic fallacy that is pointed out in first week of a logic class)

Education/Wisdom is certainly a necessary ingredient to be a good leader (in any organization), however it is not sufficient.

Third Reich, Communist party of China the Politburo all were and are filled with highly educated individuals ( in class sense).

to be an outstanding leader with transformational results you need match many parameters ( here is some).

Luck, Courage, Charisma, above average intellect, Managerial skills, Education,Empathy/ruthlessness modulation, well grounded (a person of wisdom. or rounded person as churchil called it.)

we can certainly go down the list of iranian leaders and grade them on this. ( of course people are gone differ on this)

Mosadegh
luck: NO
Courage: Yes
Charisma : Yes
intellect: Yes
Managerial skills: lean no
Education: Yes
Empathy: Yes
Well Grounded: Yes


Khomeini
Luck: Yes
Courage: Yes
charisma: yes
intellect: yes
Managerial skills: mostly yes
Education: Mostly Yes
Empathy: Hell no
well grounded : No

Reza shah
Luck: Yes and then NO
Courage: Yes
Charisma: yes
intellect: YES
Managerial skills: No
Education: No
Empathy: No
Well Grounded: Yes

Mohmmad Reza Shah
Luck: Early on Yes. Late no
Courage: No
charisma: No
intellect: Yes
Managerial skills:No
Education: lean toward no
Empathy: Yes
Well Grounded: Yes

People are far too attached to Figures.
 

Iksanihc

Well-known member
Feb 14, 2019
621
231
#8
I'm not sure the essence of Soroush's claim is actually wrong:

He claims Khomeini was a much more popular figure than Shah, hence the right choice for Iranians and that would be absolutely accurate.
Khomeini was a hell of an uneducated moron. who ever tell us shah was not educated and khomeini was, must be joking. Khomeinis level of education was not even on the same level as soopoore mahale. His whole education was based on hozeye elmiyeh and you and i know what kind of "education" that is. Khomeinis books could easily become the hot comodities for comedians to quote from. His farsi was on the same level as a kelaas dovomi kid and this is the whole problem of this backward country and people: these people made such a total joke, such an uneducated backward zero to their leader. They crowded the streets for this kind of a character. Now seriously, is this the sign of a very educated country? Those people just wanted someone who was on their own level in any imaginable aspect. this is why my problems with iranians is not superficial, its deep rooted and its logical. These guys are one of the most backward people in the whole region. Baba back then the brits used to steal our oil without allowing us to have access to documents and papers to see what they actually pumped out and to what prices they sold our oil. Years later after nationalization of oil, and after we found access to the papers, we found out that the brits were pumping iranian oil basically for free. They gave us 5% but nobody knew 5% of how much oil! The mossadegh administration found out that even Iraqis and Kuwaities had negotiated better prices and conditions for their oil that Iranians with the same british oil company. Yani hatta eraaghi haa o koweiti haa ham enghdr badbakht naboodn ke nafteshoono kaamelan majaani bedan, ghoroor daashtan, nafteshoono oonaa ham baayad midaadan, vali baaz na be in rahati ke maa irooni haa midaadim. Yani oon zaman ham az doro vari haamoon aghab moonde tar boodim, raahat tar sarvaari midaadim, raahat tar sar kham mikardim, raahat tar baaj midaadim, raahat tar too sari mikhordim.

Anything more educated and better than khomeini would be way more than those backward people could handle and stomach. Even today, you get shah back and in 5 years, they would crowd the streets again and ask for another mullah. Iranians are what they are: They are shia, backward, they are naadorost and they traditionally ask for someone who is similarly naadorost and backward
 
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