Arizona county gives wrong election date in Spanish voter cards

Feb 22, 2005
6,884
9
#1
http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/18/us/arizona-spanish-election-ballot/index.html?hpt=hp_t2


CNN) -- Arizona's Maricopa county listed the wrong date in the Spanish version of voter registration cards, a development likely to further complicate tense relations between local authorities and Latino residents.
The county's elections office says it mailed out nearly 2 million new voter registration cards. Only about 50 of the cards -- handed out over-the-counter at its offices -- had the error, it said.
Instead of November 6, the Spanish translation said the election would take place on November 8.
"The program has been updated so it reflects the correct dates in both English and Spanish," the county said in a statement.
A local rights group said the damage has already been done.

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Civil suit over Ariz. 'racial profiling'

"It's a mistake that should not have happened," Petra Falcon, the executive director of Promise Arizona in Action, told CNN affiliate KNXV-TV. "To know that there's information out there that's wrong, it's going to take a lot of work to make sure that people know the correct date."
Promise Arizona describes itself as "a nonprofit organization dedicated to expanding civic participation in Arizona, particularly among Latinos and youth."
County officials and local Hispanics have long had an adversarial relationship, particularly over the subject of illegal immigration.
Those disputes have landed in court.
In one instance, the American Civil Liberties Union of Arizona and other attorneys are representing Hispanics in a class-action lawsuit accusing Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio of civil rights and constitutional violations.
The bench trial is being held in the U.S. District Court in Phoenix.
Plaintiffs in the civil case accuse Arpaio -- who bills himself as "America's toughest" -- and his department of racial discrimination against Latinos.
The Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund, and the American Civil Liberties Union of Arizona, are waiting for a federal judge's ruling after a trial of their class-action lawsuit.
Arpaio denies any discrimination.
In a separate matter, the U.S. Justice Department has also accused the sheriff's office of civil rights violations against Latinos.
The sheriff has described the lawsuit against him and the county as politically motivated.
"They're using me for the Latino vote, showing that they're doing something, taking on the sheriff over an alleged racial profiling," he said in May.
Arpaio rejected the Department of Justice's call for monitors to oversee the workings of his department.
"That shows you they want to take over this office," he said. "Under this agreement with the so-called monitor, I'd probably have to clear every press release before I go public, especially having to do with illegal immigration, with the Department of Justice."
His remarks came after the Justice Department filed the civil lawsuit.
"At its core, this is an abuse-of-power case involving a sheriff and sheriff's office that disregarded the Constitution, ignored sound police practices, compromised public safety and did not hesitate to retaliate against perceived critics," Assistant U.S. Attorney General Thomas Perez said in May.
The Justice Department had delivered in December a report with findings of civil rights violations and sought to fix them through a negotiated settlement with Maricopa County and its sheriff's office. Those talks broke down in February over the county's refusal to consider any agreement that involved an independent monitor, Perez said.
According to the civil complaint, the sheriff's office has displayed a pattern of discrimination against Latinos, which includes racial profiling, unlawful detention and searches, and unlawful targeting of Latinos during raids.
Arpaio has denied any discrimination, and one of his attorneys called the Justice Department investigation a "witch hunt."
 

Flint

Legionnaire
Jan 28, 2006
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#2
There is one way this mistake could have been avoided. Read it in English! Do you really need November 6 translated for you? What is there to "translate"? I hate to belong to a party that thinks their constituents are a bunch of idiots.
 
Oct 20, 2003
9,345
1
#3
I never thought I ever agree with Flint, but he has a point here. You live here, you are not living in a Spanish speaking country anymore, learn the language of your host country :doh:
 

Flint

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Jan 28, 2006
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#4
I never thought I ever agree with Flint, but he has a point here. You live here, you are not living in a Spanish speaking country anymore, learn the language of your host country :doh:
This is just the tip of the iceberg. You'll be surprised how much agreement there is if I go down list point by point. How about bilingual education? Dead against it. You?
 
Oct 20, 2003
9,345
1
#5
This is just the tip of the iceberg. You'll be surprised how much agreement there is if I go down list point by point. How about bilingual education? Dead against it. You?
ditto.

OMG, second point on which I agree with with Flint.
 

Mahdi

Elite Member
Jan 1, 1970
6,999
497
Mjunik
#7
ditto.

OMG, second point on which I agree with with Flint.
Don't want to ruin your lovefest but there's enough academic evidence now for bilingual education or teaching kids with a different native tongue than the language tought at school to learn that language(mother tongue or language spoken at home) well. It helps the kids immensely in learning the language of the host country better too. Since this is a case Europeans had more problems with than Americans, the research was done here more extensively and it's no comparison.
 

Flint

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Jan 28, 2006
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#9
Don't want to ruin your lovefest but there's enough academic evidence now for bilingual education or teaching kids with a different native tongue than the language tought at school to learn that language(mother tongue or language spoken at home) well. It helps the kids immensely in learning the language of the host country better too. Since this is a case Europeans had more problems with than Americans, the research was done here more extensively and it's no comparison.
If I wanted to hear DNC talking points I wouldn't post here. There is no group of people more qualified to comment on bilingual education than us. I would fight tooth and nail with the school if they wanted to segregate my kids. They sometimes go so far that simply being born from foreign born parents makes them a candidate for bilingual education even if they were born here. This happened to me and I was immensely offended. Bilingual education is a pot of gold for teachers.
 

Flint

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Jan 28, 2006
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#10
Yeeahy, Flint loving
Well, yes or no? I take it as a no but you don't have the guts to say it.

Third,

You can't jump over the fence and ask for a green card when my cousin has to wait, in Iran mind you, for 10 years before they even talk to her. Everyone should have a fair shot? Where have I heard that before?
 

Mahdi

Elite Member
Jan 1, 1970
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497
Mjunik
#11
Flint, Flint, Flint, why are you acting like an angry white man? Chill dude...seriously..

If I wanted to hear DNC talking points I wouldn't post here. There is no group of people more qualified to comment on bilingual education than us. I would fight tooth and nail with the school if they wanted to segregate my kids. They sometimes go so far that simply being born from foreign born parents makes them a candidate for bilingual education even if they were born here. This happened to me and I was immensely offended. Bilingual education is a pot of gold for teachers.
It's not about DNC talking people, it's something called science. I know, you guys have an issue with it, but all research proves that teaching kids their mother language helps them immensely in learning the second language too. I can post around 25 academic papers on this, and they were all done in Europe and Europeans don't have a DNC. Further, there would only be classes teaching kids in their mother tongue and they would learn basic maths and such in that language. Some kids come from less educated backgrounds and their parents can neither speak for example Spanish or English right, so they en all end up with not so good English and since their parents are illiterate, they don't learn Spanish either. This is a problem among immigrants in Europe too, specially with Turks. However, kids from Turkish background in Sweden and Germany who have learned at school Turkish and German and grew up bilingual, excel in classes and simply do better. Now, please go ahead and fight tooth and nail against science and facts....if you got nothing better to do, knock yourself out.

Well, yes or no? I take it as a no but you don't have the guts to say it.

Third,

You can't jump over the fence and ask for a green card when my cousin has to wait, in Iran mind you, for 10 years before they even talk to her. Everyone should have a fair shot? Where have I heard that before?
Actually yes my dear redneck brethren. Historically speaking, the US has been the best superpower in the history of mankind. We can argue about the shit they had running in Latin America, but historically no comparison to Opium wars, Boer wars, Algeria and everything else Brits and French were involved. And given that the countries in the waiting list are China and Russia, I prefer to run with the US.

and I'm very sorry for your relatives in Iran not getting a Green Card. Unfortunately, if it was as easy as jumping over a fence, I would have done it. I can only hope for Green Card lottery and a STEM quota regulation coming soon. Although, I have to say, I live in the city with the highest living quality on earth for the 2nd year running and I could be hit worse, but I kind of miss the Pacific, Olympic Gardens, Magic City, Pastrami at Katz's...stuff like that..

Look, deep down and in the end, me, you, Masoud, Natural etc. want the same things. We believe in different ways to achieve it. If you were less defensive, acted less like a mad man, and I'm not talking about Draper, less etc. and such, the world would be a nicer place.
 
Oct 20, 2003
9,345
1
#12
Don't want to ruin your lovefest but there's enough academic evidence now for bilingual education or teaching kids with a different native tongue than the language tought at school to learn that language(mother tongue or language spoken at home) well. It helps the kids immensely in learning the language of the host country better too. Since this is a case Europeans had more problems with than Americans, the research was done here more extensively and it's no comparison.
Madhi jAn, the issue which I object to is the lack of willingness to learn the language of the host country. I do not know about the academic evidence and such, I know if one wants to better his life in a foreign country, one must first be able to communicate, that is a simply fact and does not need academic study to provide support. I know first hand that there are people in my state who have been here for decades and cannot communicate or convey a simple idea. You call an organization, government or otherwise and you hear, if you want to speak English push one, if you want to speak Spanish push 2...Where does this stop. I have heard Iranians in LA who want to get a driver license can have their test in Persian. How would you read the sign if you take the test in a different language, How would you call 911 in an emergency?
When you provide the convenience or lack of motive, do you think the immigrants would bother to learn, I do not think so.
 

Mahdi

Elite Member
Jan 1, 1970
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Mjunik
#13
Madhi jAn, the issue which I object to is the lack of willingness to learn the language of the host country. I do not know about the academic evidence and such, I know if one wants to better his life in a foreign country, one must first be able to communicate, that is a simply fact and does not need academic study to provide support. I know first hand that there are people in my state who have been here for decades and cannot communicate or convey a simple idea. You call an organization, government or otherwise and you hear, if you want to speak English push one, if you want to speak Spanish push 2...Where does this stop. I have heard Iranians in LA who want to get a driver license can have their test in Persian. How would you read the sign if you take the test in a different language, How would you call 911 in an emergency?
When you provide the convenience or lack of motive, do you think the immigrants would bother to learn, I do not think so.

That is a different issue and no disagreement there. I might understand it if the person is 70 when moving to the US. For everyone else, there's no excuse really.

My issue is with 2nd generation immigrants or kids of those immigrants. Obviously the first language they learn is the one spoken at home. If they manage to learn that one right and get behind the "formula" of it, it will also help them learn the adopted language better, it will also help them with any other language. I had it easy to learn languages because of that(my parents obviously and madrese farsi), and research from Sweden, Germany, even UK has proven that this is correct too.
 

ardy

Legionnaire
Nov 25, 2004
6,575
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San Diego Armando Maradona, CA
#14
I never thought I ever agree with Flint, but he has a point here. You live here, you are not living in a Spanish speaking country anymore, learn the language of your host country :doh:
How about if you don't speak English (except the native Americans of course) then you don't deserve to become a citizen. The US citizenship has become a total joke.
 

Flint

Legionnaire
Jan 28, 2006
7,016
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United States
#16
My issue is with 2nd generation immigrants or kids of those immigrants.
Hey, you don't have to consult voluminous scientific studies for this. Talk to me. I had a second generation kid. He is grown up now of course but as the first child all he knew was Farsi. We had zero qualms sending him to a nursery school and before you knew it he was up and running. You are so underestimating the ease with which kids learn a language. Let's make this personal. How would YOU like to have your children taken away, segregated and stigmatized any more than they already may be? I have seen older kids, 10, 11, 12, coming from the Iran who were similarly absorbed.

One more thing, did you know that the parents of immigrant children had to demonstrate to prevent the LA school district from putting up their kids in their bilingual education? How is that as a "study" for you?

"They resent educators patronizing insistence that their children ought to be fluent in Spanish in case the families want to go back to their home countries - a ludicrous suggestion to most. And they say their children get plenty of Spanish language, culture and heritage where they ought to get it, at home.

“I speak Spanish at home, so they won t forget, but they answer me in English," said Ana Espinosa, 35, a Puerto Rican native and mother of eight."

http://www.crpc.rice.edu/newsArchive/nsl_11_16_97.html
 

Mahdi

Elite Member
Jan 1, 1970
6,999
497
Mjunik
#17
My dear compadre Flint,

Hey, you don't have to consult voluminous scientific studies for this. Talk to me. I had a second generation kid. He is grown up now of course but as the first child all he knew was Farsi. We had zero qualms sending him to a nursery school and before you knew it he was up and running. You are so underestimating the ease with which kids learn a language.
I really don't know what you are talking about and which Republican horror show you recently watched, but here's the thing my brother:
I assume that your Persian is pretty good and you have an educated background. Further, your English seems half decent as well. So whatever language you spoke with your kid, it learned it the right way. However, a lot of immigrants have a poor educational background. Their kids neither learn English right, because they grow up probably in an area where no speaks English right and at home, they learn a language that is supposed to be their mother tongue but isn't. Further, they don't understand what that language is that they are learning. Now, obviously, that wasn't the case with you and your kid and it wasn't the case with me, but it's the case with way too many immigrant kids. Further, I really don't know what kind of outcast and "they will take my kids away" trip you are on now, but your kid is just going to school, I assume in a pretty white neighborhood. So aehm, sorry, what are you smoking?

Let's make this personal. How would YOU like to have your children taken away, segregated and stigmatized any more than they already may be? I have seen older kids, 10, 11, 12, coming from the Iran who were similarly absorbed.
Baba what taken away, segregated and stigmatized? Seriously, what are you talking about? First, this would happen in the actual class or they would visit classes for that language, and it wouldn't change a bit the way they are taught as they are at school. Second, obviously I would feel terrible about it that my kid would actually learn something at school...I expect him to go hunting and such stuff...NOT. No seriously dude, what drugs do you take? Is that a sideeffect of Purple Drank or just Meth?

One more thing, did you know that the parents of immigrant children had to demonstrate to prevent the LA school district from putting up their kids in their bilingual education? How is that as a "study" for you?
Ok, what are you trying to prove here? That people with little educational background know it better than actual research?

"They resent educators patronizing insistence that their children ought to be fluent in Spanish in case the families want to go back to their home countries - a ludicrous suggestion to most. And they say their children get plenty of Spanish language, culture and heritage where they ought to get it, at home.

“I speak Spanish at home, so they won t forget, but they answer me in English," said Ana Espinosa, 35, a Puerto Rican native and mother of eight."

http://www.crpc.rice.edu/newsArchive/nsl_11_16_97.html
Sure, always better to speak broken English and get the low paid jobs. Anyway my dear, you have your latino illegal immigrants, I have studies and facts. The L is all yours. Take care buddy!

http://www.uddannelsesnetvaerket.dk/rdb/1205421604.pdf

http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0014/001466/146632e.pdf

http://iteachilearn.org/cummins/mother.htm