Attention: "Ashtar"

[AMirza]

Ashtar Joon -
Change your name - I think it's your name :mymistake Ashtar - are you naming yourself after Malek Ashtar ?

but seriously - I agree with you the thread should have been addressed to older hezis. It's waay too much for you.

and trust me - we all knew there was not going to be a real response to the questions posed here.

 

[beystr]

wasn't a movie called Ashtar or was it Ishtar? any J/k

 

[Persian_Beauty]

1st of all, just because you offered me to ask you any question I had don’t assume the same from me. I never offered you that luxury. As I said before, I come here mostly to read and share news (sports, politics, or otherwise). I could care less if you like or don’t like IR.

2nd, Just because I question and point out baseless claims, false accusations, misinformation by certain members here, and try to show the other side of the coin as well, it doesn’t mean I’m supporting the other side. It merely means I support seeing the full picture and that I don’t support accepting whatever half-baked idea, baseless claims or lies that others try to feed me because of their own political bias. Just because someone doesn’t support the way Neo-cons attacked Iraq it doesn’t mean that they automatically supported Saddam, does it? This philosophy of "you’re either with us or against us" is a moronic philosophy.

3rd, I really neither have the time nor the inclination to get in to personal beliefs. What I personally believe has and will have no bearing on the truth, facts, and what is happening in the world. If you want to question or criticize the news, facts, or pictures that I post that’s one thing but questioning my own personal beliefs is a waste of your and more importantly my time.

4th, right off the bat let me tell you that I don’t believe that everything that IR does (and even more especially many of the things that many Akhoonds say and do) are Islamic, correct, ethical, or necessarily defendable. But just because I don’t think some of the things they do are right doesn’t automatically mean that I think everything they say or do is wrong. As I’ve said many times before, unlike you guys I don’t see things as purely black OR white.

Now to your questions:
This is a loaded question. You’re asking me to tell you what goes on in the minds of all the different Mullahs? I’m afraid I don’t have the psychic ability your looking for. But if you were asking me about the rational behind a certain official policy then I might be able to give you a reasonably acceptable personal deduction, understanding or rational. IMO as far as I know IR has never officially discouraged "suicide bombers" because this phenomena has never been either an Iranian problem nor a Shiite problem (where one may argue the Shiite Mullahs have some sort of religious authority). Other than in the field of battle where Iranian soldiers may have sacrificed their own lives to save the lives of others I CHALLENGE YOU to name me one other place where Iranians in anyway affiliated with IR have EVER undertaken such act. There are bunch of "k.. khols" who now a days may go around and signup volunteers for possible suicide missions in case Iran is attacked or occupied but as far as I know that is not an official IR policy and any reasonable person can deduce that is more for showmanship values rather than any real threat. The Shiites in Lebanon or Iraq have never undertaken any such actions either (at least in any significant number or as a group policy). So why would anyone go out of their way to officially discourage an act that is a none-issue for them? It’s like asking why doesn’t US officially condemn the printing of Prophet’s cartoons in EU? Well, because that is a non-issue for US and why should they go out of their way and talk about something that is not their problem?

That is a long answer to avoid getting in to an even longer answer about the philosophical and ethical difference between a person who has given up hope committing suicide and a hopeful soldier/fighter/person going on what might be tantamount to a suicide mission.
What 16, 17 year-old kids are you talking about? I have to assume you’re going back to the Iran-Iraq war. In that instance, as Reza already pointed out to you there were many Mullahs and Talabehs who fought and died on the frontlines along with others. There were hundreds and thousands of them who were assassinated in the early days of the revolution. The main officials may not themselves have gone to the frontline of the battlefields for the same reason that a military general doesn’t pickup a rifle and risk his life in the very frontline. Because times and styles of war have changed from 1500 years ago. Different people have different responsibilities in war. They even discouraged doctors from going to the frontlines and encouraged them to stay back and treat the wounded where they were more effective. But I wont deny that some of them were just scared punks who told others to fight but didn’t believe in what they preached. Those kinds of people exist everywhere in the world and are neither unique to IR or Iran or any other place or people in the world.
Yes I can. It has to do with what a person’s definition of Shahid. I’m not a religious expert so I couldn’t tell you what is the correct interpretation of Shahid. But from my lay understanding Shahid means martyr, which is a person who dies for their convictions or religious faith. In Islam it is typically referred to a person who dies (not necessarily killed by enemy's sword) in a Jihad (holly war). Thus a person who dies in the battlefield from a grenade accidentally exploding will equally be considered a Shahid as a person who is shot in the head by the enemy’s bullet.

Now if you accept that any act for the sake of promoting or defending your religion is considered a form of Jihad (jihad e akbar vs jihad e asghar and all that stuff) then logically one can see that t a person whose mission was promoting the faith and religion but is killed in that path be it from an enemy’s bullet or a plane crash or electrocution may also be considered a Sahid.

Of course, to the real believers what is important is whether GOD will consider them a Shahid or not. The labels given by any official or government is only good for making their living families feel a little better and perhaps enjoy some financial benefits that comes with their dead loved one carrying that title.

I am glad you call a simple communication a “Luxury”…? If you really are here to read and share news than you should know part of that includes “Questioning and replying”…However, I did not ask you to explain IRI nor do I think you are a qualified expert in their neither Laws nor Political actions! I wanted to know what it is “specifically” that you agree with IRI?? You defend their political positions left and right!!!

I did not ask you to analyze Islam nor Iran. Very clever on your end but I don’t give you that much Credit! Our conversation (reply to my post) was about the Uranium enrichment. Which in fact IS IRAN’S RIGHT but not under that regime!!! God only knows what IRI’s intention is!? They certainly care to help the economy (More money in Rafsanjani’s bank account)…In fact in my opinion Iran’s laws are for the Mullahs, by the Mullahs and Not the "People"… If it had anything to do for the “people of Iran” I would be supporting them too…

Now I see why some members said; it is pointless trying to get an answer from you! You went around my questions but never answered them! Playing it dumb! I guess that is expected from the IRI supporters!

Thank you!

PB..

 

[lordofmordor]

I also bellieve Shah was too weak of a man. He did not do to Mullahs what Artuk did to mullahs in Turkey. Khominie should have been killed on spot or assasinated later. IR does not give a second to anyone yet they are so blind and ignorant to be thankful to shah who did not kill that caveman cockroach Khominie.

Now, one say, would that not mean IR should kill our people? They have been doing it and that is why their time would come too. Why, because they do it not for the good of the country but good of their own pockets and Islam. Tha t is why the time comes when people would burn these people down, a democracy will prevail.

 

[Persian_Beauty]

I also bellieve Shah was too weak of a man. He did not do to Mullahs what Artuk did to mullahs in Turkey. Khominie should have been killed on spot or assasinated later. IR does not give a second to anyone yet they are so blind and ignorant to be thankful to shah who did not kill that caveman cockroach Khominie.

Now, one say, would that not mean IR should kill our people? They have been doing it and that is why their time would come too. Why, because they do it not for the good of the country but good of their own pockets and Islam. Tha t is why the time comes when people would burn these people down, a democracy will prevail.

I agree with you. As I mentioned in one of my earlier replies yesterday, Shah had to do what Atta Turk did..
For the sake of the people who live in iran I hope you are right on "a democracy will prevail.."

Love and Peace for all....
PB..

 

[TheAli]

IRI is there because people wanted it to be there. It is not there because Allah wants it to be there (of course this is a question of "jabr" or "ekhtiyar" that I am not going to answer here). IRI's roots goes back to the people's desire of having an independent government. It has nothing to do with the core of what Islam is all about. Islam is a religion and to some it is the truth that leads the One to the right path (matrix??). However, what the real "Islam" is can be a good questions to answer. each of you should think about it to come with an answer and let us compare them here.

IRI is there because in mid-70's and early 80's there was a great challenge between East and West (US versus Soviets). When Shah left Iran (as a result of revolution and the leftist/islamist opposition), US had no other option to sit and watch. The only propaganda they could (and did) turn off was the Soviet influence, which did not really succeed in Iran as a result of culture and moslem opposition to a communist type of a system!

You should read more history to understand what I am talking about. IRI supporters will tell you "Allah wanted it to happen" - they mean the enghelab (revolution - for my tagger!! ). Of course, this claim justifies their beliefs, but a deep literature survey, and a deep understanding of World politics will tell you that this may not have been the case...It is more complicate than you think it is.

Now, they have established a government that is backed by the Iranian people. Majority of Iranians are good moslems (or at least they try!) and they like Islam. They like the way today's Islam teaches you to live and such a tradition has become a part of the Iranian culture.

I advice some on this forum to open their eyes and turn into reality: Iran has changed and people have finally established a government that they like to have. however, it has nothing to do with what the core of Islam is all about, believe me it has nothing to do with it!

Shaheed to me is someone who gives his/her life to God for a holy cause. Giving your life away for your country, is it materialistic or not, I do not know if it is the right thing to do. But I can assure you that dying for a political reason, no matter what it is, is considered a deadly sin (this is what I understand from Islam). Suicide bombers are the ones who are brainwashed by a very clever and intelligent system. There are many of such established systems and Shiites and Sunnis they both have it well planned and established.

During the 9-11 case, some Vahabi brainwash groups (in UAE and Saudi) had strong ties with the CIA, for example. Hence, it worked this way:

CIA--->Bush--->Bin Laden---Suicide bombers--->CIA--->Bush--->Bin Laden

It is like a circle that turns around itself. It works beautifully: you have a bad guy named Bin Laden. He has deep connections with CIA (but no one knows). He has some Vahabi mullahs under his influence who have a brainwash system already established in the UAE and Saudi. CIA asks Bin Laden to send his crew (whom have been prepared for this) to "the" hijacking mission. Some of the brainwashed Pakisani-original hijackers are selected (they don't know the CIA connection of course) and are prepared for this "holy" cause. They get on the planes and kill themselves believing that they are dying for Allah (of course CIA lets them do this - they open the gates for them - click on the following link to see what I mean). In conclusion: US attacked Afghanistan and captures the opium and drug-planting fields (billions of dollars of drug trade), they (big OIL companies who also rule the US government) open a way for the natural gas pipeline through Khazakistan and Turkmenistan to Pakistan, and they establish plans to attack the middle east. Then they attack Iraq (12 years of sanction to finally give fruits) to capture the OIL fields (billions of dollars in OIL trade market, etc.). All of that happens because of US people's support for "war against terror".

Follow up with the following link which will teach you all a lot:

http://www.copvcia.com/free/ww3/02_11_02_lucy.html

Suicide bombing is a new way to convince people for OIL wars. there are more wars to come and the root will go to the same topic "war against terror". I advice you all not to fool yourselves with the stories that would compare moslems to non-moslems and suicide bombers as terorrists. Man, those poor Pakistanis did not have jobs, they were starving (not Mohammad Atta though - he received some cash money and no one knows where he is right now).

I advice you to do a google search on 'Michael Ruppert" or "Eric Hufschmidt" to learn and understand more about what is happening around you. The OIL is runnnig out and more wars to come!

Now, IRI is there and if it was not there the wars woudl still happen. They do not seem to be the hand of God or anything like that, do they?

Regards

 

[AliMR]

obviously you cant get a straight answer from ashtar.

 

[ME]

1st of all, just because you offered me to ask you any question I had don’t assume the same from me. I never offered you that luxury. As I said before, I come here mostly to read and share news (sports, politics, or otherwise). I could care less if you like or don’t like IR.

hahahahhahahahah, yeah right!

To keh dorugh nemigi, ... .... adame dorooghgoo!

 

[deerouz]

I don't think the title of this thread is quite appropriate. On many discussion forums this kind of "stalking" is not allowed.

My 2 cents

 

[ferdosi]

LooL

5 pages everybody responded (including me now) except for the guy who was supposed to respond.

 

[beystr]

baba chera inghadr kheng bazi dar miarin.....what the hell do u want the sheikh to say?

Age az IRI khoshesh miamad ke domesh nemindakht ro kolesh o boland she biad faranegstan...khode een baba josve fararihaye een mamlekate...hala keep asking the question.....

 

[R_E_Z_A]

PB,

I am sorry to say you are a bit confused on your ideology. I can very well undrestand all the others who are against the Islamic Regime, its simple they dont belive in Islam therefore they do not want the Islamic Regime which is quite clear to me and I can undrestand their point. However, you seem to be a beliver of Islam, Qoran and Imam Ali. For someone who belive in Islam and Qoran, the Prophet, he/she must also belive in their teachings and their ways. I suggest you read more about the way prophet Mohammad (PBUH) and Imam Ali lived. I suggest you read more Qoran. Dont choose the part of Islam you like and abandon the parts you dont like. You can not say I belive in Islam and "I wish Shah had done what Atta Turk did in Turkey" What Attaturk did was systemic erradications of the Religion.

Be true to yourself. When Imam Ali was hit by Ibn Muljam in the Mosque, some people were surprised that Imam Ali was killed in the Mosque becasue they were made to belive that Imam Ali did'nt pray !! at any era there are people who are against Islam make their OWN version of Islam, a version which they like.

 

[Dr Strangemoosh]

R_E_Z_A, in my experience, the orthodox muslims I know are of course strong believers in Islam and strong denouncers of IRI Calling IRI Islamic is the greatest oxymoron in the world. I am not religious, but I can still see that Islam is a great religion with numerous teachings and codes of morals and ethics, very few of which are applied to current Unislamic Republic of Iran

 

[payan]

Reza ,why you are doing Maghlate ,you are misinforming pb. islam and hazrat Ali ? ,what are you talking about .islam came up with 3 points ,1-souveinty of an idividuale god (vahdaniyt khoda ) 2- life after death 3- profhecy of mohamad as the last profhit of god . now if we iranians and shi;a add 2 more to that ,is a different story . (4 emamat 5-adl ) , emamat is leadership ,so we believe of 12 emam . and ADL ,this is questionable ,why we came up for justice ,didn't mean it ,during islamic ruling in all over places under kholefas, the justice didn't exist ,in other words ,the ruling of islamic government has had flaws ,so others like iranians desprately had been looking for justice . exactlly jus right now . people are looking for justice . however what shi'a added to the first 3 points , is not acceptable by sonnis moslems ,that 's why they still call us majous ( atesh parast) .

 

[Silverton]

lol..

IR is so Islamic that they haev ...

1) some of the, if not the highest interest rates in the world
2) they wanted to instill "chastity houses" for whoredom and prostitution
3) they torture and kill political prisioners and rape women before death

Some of the millions, yes millions, of hypocritical outline of the IR

 

[Silverton]

PB,

I am sorry to say you are a bit confused on your ideology. I can very well undrestand all the others who are against the Islamic Regime, its simple they dont belive in Islam therefore they do not want the Islamic Regime which is quite clear to me and I can undrestand their point. However, you seem to be a beliver of Islam, Qoran and Imam Ali. For someone who belive in Islam and Qoran, the Prophet, he/she must also belive in their teachings and their ways. I suggest you read more about the way prophet Mohammad (PBUH) and Imam Ali lived. I suggest you read more Qoran. Dont choose the part of Islam you like and abandon the parts you dont like. You can not say I belive in Islam and "I wish Shah had done what Atta Turk did in Turkey" What Attaturk did was systemic erradications of the Religion.

Be true to yourself. When Imam Ali was hit by Ibn Muljam in the Mosque, some people were surprised that Imam Ali was killed in the Mosque becasue they were made to belive that Imam Ali did'nt pray !! at any era there are people who are against Islam make their OWN version of Islam, a version which they like.

Who cares about "Imam" Ali ... he's dead, done with, and gone. Muawiyah and Yazid were Good Guys!
Hasan and Husayn were just power-hungry people who wanted to be positions of worldly power ...

Muawiyah and YazidIETEEEH!!!

 

[AMirza]

This is very interesting !!
None of the Hezis dared to take a shot at answering the questions posed here !!!

I ask again - can one believe in human rights (all humans are equal regardless of gender or faith) and still support the Islamic Republic ????

 

[Silverton]

This is very interesting !!
None of the Hezis dared to take a shot at answering the questions posed here !!!

I ask again - can one believe in human rights (all humans are equal regardless of gender or faith) and support the Islamic Republic ????

Baba, Shiite-ohs don't believe in human rights ... it's a terrorist sect. They just suck a lot of dick whether it's mullah this or ayatollah that .. they are nobodies and they are considered heretics in the rest of the Islamic World. They are heretics and nonbelievers, they are worshippers of this person and that ... And the Islamic World is a bunch of nobodies, so you can see how low Shiites are if other Muslims believe they are shit.

 

[TheAli]

R_E_Z_A, in my experience, the orthodox muslims I know are of course strong believers in Islam and strong denouncers of IRI Calling IRI Islamic is the greatest oxymoron in the world. I am not religious, but I can still see that Islam is a great religion with numerous teachings and codes of morals and ethics, very few of which are applied to current Unislamic Republic of Iran

Dr,

They are trying something that Hz. Ali could not succeed in. However, the core of IRI is something that resembles true Islam (it has such an outlook with a "very" advanced missionary and spionage system).

So you cannot count on it as a "holy" regime. You can just count on it as an "experimental system". In terms of strengthenning unity among people and keeping the country isolated, they have done a good job so far. At least, IRI has isolated itself from the World so as to gain no influence from the World...I appreciate that because the regimes in the Middle East are much more corrupted than the current IRI. In IRI's system, the corruption is "within" the system and it has almost no source that is really outside-related. So, it could be easier for people to figure out the corruption and then replace it with honesty since they do not have to deal with a foreign government. I think currently Ahmadinejad is trying to clean up some mess but I am not sure if he has the "culture" and real understanding of what people really want in Iran...I mena his beliefs are contradictory to many, but not contradictory to majority, right? If we put away North of Tehran and some high class families in state capitals, then the rest seem to be conservative, so they will really support what he wants to do.

It is our own fault that we have corruption in Iran. However, corruption exists everywhere and not in Iran only, and believe me, it is much worse than the current situation in Iran.

 

[Silverton]

Dr,

They are trying something that Hz. Ali could not succeed in. However, the core of IRI is something that resembles true Islam (it has such an outlook with a "very" advanced missionary and spionage system).

So you cannot count on it as a "holy" regime. You can just count on it as an "experimental system". In terms of strengthenning unity among people and keeping the country isolated, they have done a good job so far. At least, IRI has isolated itself from the World so as to gain no influence from the World...I appreciate that because the regimes in the Middle East are much more corrupted than the current IRI. In IRI's system, the corruption is "within" the system and it has almost no source that is really outside-related. So, it could be easier for people to figure out the corruption and then replace it with honesty since they do not have to deal with a foreign government. I think currently Ahmadinejad is trying to clean up some mess but I am not sure if he has the "culture" and real understanding of what people really want in Iran...I mena his beliefs are contradictory to many, but not contradictory to majority, right? If we put away North of Tehran and some high class families in state capitals, then the rest seem to be conservative, so they will really support what he wants to do.

It is our own fault that we have corruption in Iran. However, corruption exists everywhere and not in Iran only, and believe me, it is much worse than the current situation in Iran.

Again, an IR supporter writing a lengthy paragraph and not saying a whole lot. Just cut the crap. Maybe you didn't know that they could off-load money in other countries, say UAE or wherever.

Just because IR has said it is an "independent" regime, doesn't mean it is. If we merely take words to present reality, than the words of a lot of cold-blooded killers would wash the sins of their deeeds.