Best Wrestler of all times

[Agha Shojaa]

Great thread. Sean, one of our old-timers here must really love this discussion.

I could be wrong but Mohebi brothers never wrestled in 96 kilo as far as i know. Infact i am pretty sure there was no 96 kilo cathegory back then. I remember Hassan to wrestle in 90 kilo and Hossein in 82 kilo. In 90 kilo though i remember Hassan Mohebi always having problems with Khadartsev of russia.

Are you sure? I thought Hossein was in 74kg and Hassan in 82kg? Also, I may be wrong, but I think Khadartsev was a wrestler that came about after Hassan had already retired.

To me, the best Iranian wrestler was Rasoul Khadem, hands down. He started off in the 68kg and finished his career in the +120. Such a smart/intelligent wrestler. I think he won 4 Gold medals and to me, he under-achieved. He deserved a few more Golds.

Fadzaef in 68kg, or Khadarsev in 90kg were indeed great wrestlers. They dominated their weight category for a very long time. On John Smith: I still remember the minute he won his bout against Asgari Mohamadian in 1992. Mohamadian actually lifted his opponent out of respect after the final whistle, and celebrated finishing second. China, did you know that Asgari Mohamadian's son is following his dad's footsteps nowadays in becoming another great champ? We will hear more about him in the future.

Also, what do you think about Majid Torkan? His bouts with Yordanev in 52kg was always nerve-wracking. Such a likable person he was.

 

[TeamMeli]

I can't believe nobody mentioned this legend you can't mention wrestling without mentioning The Gable grip Dan Gable undefeated in high school 181 wins in college at Iowa finally he lost a match in college. Here is an old interview from Mr. Gable 1972 freestyle gold medalist Dan Gable (USA) v. Ruslan Ashraliev (USSR) - 1972 Olympic Gold Medal Final

[video=youtube;ngxZVmtKCCo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngxZVmtKCCo[/video]

If you don't know who Dan Gable is, you are not a wrestling fan.

Legend has it THE MAN WORKED OUT SEVEN HOURS A DAY SEVEN DAYS A WEEK!

 

[Chinaski]

Great thread. Sean, one of our old-timers here must really love this discussion.



Are you sure? I thought Hossein was in 74kg and Hassan in 82kg? Also, I may be wrong, but I think Khadartsev was a wrestler that came about after Hassan had already retired.

To me, the best Iranian wrestler was Rasoul Khadem, hands down. He started off in the 68kg and finished his career in the +120. Such a smart/intelligent wrestler. I think he won 4 Gold medals and to me, he under-achieved. He deserved a few more Golds.

Fadzaef in 68kg, or Khadarsev in 90kg were indeed great wrestlers. They dominated their weight category for a very long time. On John Smith: I still remember the minute he won his bout against Asgari Mohamadian in 1992. Mohamadian actually lifted his opponent out of respect after the final whistle, and celebrated finishing second. China, did you know that Asgari Mohamadian's son is following his dad's footsteps nowadays in becoming another great champ? We will hear more about him in the future.

Also, what do you think about Majid Torkan? His bouts with Yordanev in 52kg was always nerve-wracking. Such a likable person he was.

Yes i am pretty sure. Hassan wrestled in 90 kilo and Hossein in 82. Hassan was wrestling in the same era as kadartsev but all in all neither Hassan nor Hossein Mohebi were big time world class wrestlers. They were nationally sound but internationally they never belonged to the best of the best.

About Torkan and Yordanov i have to say i actually never sensed that nerve-wrackling thing. Torkan was not in Yordanovs class. He wrestled him many times and lost all those bouts excpet of the 1990 final of Tokyo and even then he only won because he was facing an already aging and declining Yordanov. We iranians made Torkan bigger than he actually was. Yordanov was a genious and one of the best of all times. Torkan was one of many.

I remember a bout against Yordanov inwhich Torkan behaved so miserably, falling down and play acting, pretending an injury, killing time to catch a breat, constantly complaining about the decisions at the edge of the mat...Yordanov dige khaste shode bood az in theatr haa o filmaash.

 

[Chinaski]

Peydaash kardam... bebin che maskhare baazi o kesaafat kaari raah andaakhte bood. badbakht yordanov aslan nemidoonest in chi mikhaad, chikaar mikhaad bokone...khode morabi iran ham dige daad saresh mizad migoft biaa vaaisaa mesl aadam koshti begir.

[video=youtube;NZ_fe2RmOEU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ_fe2RmOEU[/video]

 

[OSTAD POOYA]

I have to post something about "Jahan Pahlevan" takhti when it comes to his javan mardi behavior which was his signature and his technical abilities. He holds 1 Olympic Gold and 2 silvers, along with 2 world championship gold and 2 silvers, and one Asian gold. In the 1962 world championships in Toledo Ohio he faced Medved in which he never attacked his injured leg which caused him to get a silver as he was under-weighted by 200grams compared to Medved. I think being able to conduct such respect for humanity and act of selflessness that one becomes a great.

 

[Chinaski]

I have to post something about "Jahan Pahlevan" takhti when it comes to his javan mardi behavior which was his signature and his technical abilities. He holds 1 Olympic Gold and 2 silvers, along with 2 world championship gold and 2 silvers, and one Asian gold. In the 1962 world championships in Toledo Ohio he faced Medved in which he never attacked his injured leg which caused him to get a silver as he was under-weighted by 200grams compared to Medved. I think being able to conduct such respect for humanity and act of selflessness that one becomes a great.

Absoloutely. Takhti was truely a MARD (something that has completely disappeared from iranian lexicons and behaviour). Medved btw was similarly a mard va javan mard. He actually was the best wrestler in that categorie, winning more medals, bouts and and championships but he never forgot Takhtis behaviour in that match and he traveled to tehran to visit his grave and pay him respect. Medved several times said that the biggest person he ever got to know in his sportive career was Takhti.

 

[OSTAD POOYA]

Absoloutely. Takhti was truely a MARD (something that has completely disappeared from iranian lexicons and behaviour). Medved btw was similarly a mard va javan mard. He actually was the best wrestler in that categorie, winning more medals, bouts and and championships but he never forgot Takhtis behaviour in that match and he traveled to tehran to visit his grave and pay him respect. Medved several times said that the biggest person he ever got to know in his sportive career was Takhti.

Indeed so.. He truly loved Takhti for what he did and traveled to Iran several times and always pays respect and tribute to him for what he did. Many many of just passed up on that and did not recognize it but it takes a true "Mard" to accept that and honor it. For that he gets the most respect from me for being true to the actual values of wrestling. I think its important to note that "zoor khooneh" wrestling is something that had to arise from the ashes of the Islamic conquest and which we have talked about here before on how Iranians had to exercise under Islamic names of Ali and so and so and do it underground as they were not allowed to practice their roots. Its too bad that there is not much more investments in this national sport of Iran that goes back thousands of years and many countries such as Mongolia, China, Cuba, America, Azarbaijan, Uzbeskistan, and others have caught up or are passing us. I think Iranian wrestlers with their style and historic background can be right on top and perform much better than what is seen.

 

[TeamMeli]

So nobody thinks Dan Gable is worth a mention because he is not an Iranian or Russian wrestler? I know we had some legendary wrestlers but we should acknowledge someone as legendary as Gable. I believe as the coach of Iowa he also coached Iowa to either 9 or 10 NCAA division1 championships. Iowa is known because of Gable.

 

[OSTAD POOYA]

So nobody thinks Dan Gable is worth a mention because he is not an Iranian or Russian wrestler? I know we had some legendary wrestlers but we should acknowledge someone as legendary as Gable. I believe as the coach of Iowa he also coached Iowa to either 9 or 10 NCAA division1 championships. Iowa is known because of Gable.

I just read up on him and he is pretty impressive going 181-1 in his career. 16 NCAA titles is a big result and he sure knows his managing capabilites. The thing is wrestling is brought up different here in the United States due to the University systems and where all these guys grow up wrestling and then going to college. In places like Iran and some other countries its practiced differently. The system is in place in the US that's what I am saying.


Interesting thing I I wanted to share about that Russian Wrestler Krelin is that he fought against Matt Ghafari in the 1996 Olympic finals in Atlanta. Ghaffari is Iranian and is actually my friends brothers son. He won Silver that year and that was his biggest victory. He kind of faded away after that trying to obtain some wrestling positions which did not work out for him.

 

[Chinaski]

Americans have all the physical tools but they lack finesse, technics and proper coaching. Aside from a guy like John Smith who was truely a genius, everybody else always relied on physics instead of technics. In that regard no one beats the russians though. Russians coaches are simply the best, russian wrestlers have the biggest reportoir of technics. We iranians were known for being good "zir gir". But we always had to be careful not being surprised by the variety of technics of russian wrestlers. Zir migerefti, root kheyme mizad o fito mizad, bala kaar mikardi ke aslan khodaaye baalaa kaar kardan boodan. paahaashoon moratab kaar mikard va hanooz ham mikone, yani khodeto mashghool fan haaye baalaa koni, ye dafe behet zir paaai mizanan. They are truely the best and most complete wrestlers. However iranians have done a good job in the last 5 years. Specially in light and middle weights iranians seem to know more technics. in the 80s and 90s iranians really wrestled poorly. Most of them were all into hol daadan because the coaching simply wasnt good at any level. It changed though, they are a lot better now.

 

[Chinaski]

This is a scramble compilation of 2011 Russian Nationals. people always said winning the Soviet or Russian championship has been harter and more difficult than winning the world championship and its true. Today with the reemergence of the iranians it might be a little more difficult to win the world championship but hell i have seen russian nationals on a higher level than world championships because close to everyone participating can wrestle while in world championship level you have likes of qataris, canadians, spanish...who participate who however are mostly a walk in the park. In russian nationals, no one is a walk in a park.

[video=youtube;VLwYTR4nAWs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLwYTR4nAWs[/video]

 

[TeamMeli]

I just read up on him and he is pretty impressive going 181-1 in his career. 16 NCAA titles is a big result and he sure knows his managing capabilites. The thing is wrestling is brought up different here in the United States due to the University systems and where all these guys grow up wrestling and then going to college. In places like Iran and some other countries its practiced differently. The system is in place in the US that's what I am saying.


Interesting thing I I wanted to share about that Russian Wrestler Krelin is that he fought against Matt Ghafari in the 1996 Olympic finals in Atlanta. Ghaffari is Iranian and is actually my friends brothers son. He won Silver that year and that was his biggest victory. He kind of faded away after that trying to obtain some wrestling positions which did not work out for him.

Interesting. I watched a clip and Dan Gable talked about the one loss he had at Iowa. He said that motivated him to never want to lose again. The man worked out seven hours a day and that loss fueled him. 181-1 at Iowa. You are right and I think the Americans have a huge advantage over the Iranians because you can learn from good coaching even in the high schools here, you have good wrestling coaches who will teach you the fundamentals. You will have weightlifting facilities, if the wrestling team doesn't you can use the football team's facilities. I would have done wrestling but our HS didn't offer it because of TITLE IX we had to have a girls wrestling so I had to settle for to stay in shape and relieve stress(doctor recommended it as good therapy I'm glad I listened) Jiu Jitsu but even in classes I remember we would watch clips from Dan Gable. The guy was probably the most fundamentally sound wrestler and that is why Iowa was so tough to beat. Iowa wrestlers are known for their fundamentals and it started with Gable. That is why Gable's win against the Soviet at the Olympics in the finals was impressive because this was back when the Soviets dominated everybody. They couldn't dominate Gable.

I remember Krelin as well and China brings up a point back in the day the Soviet championships was tougher to win than the World Championships although in 94 they were not CCCP or USSR they were Russia and they lost a few of their good wrestlers to other countries.

By the way there are two thing Jiu Jitsu and Wrestling have in common. 1-You need good cardio 2-the concept of leverage is the same in wrestling, jiu jitsu and even when you tackle someone in American football.

 

[Chinaski]

There was one Georgian wrestler in 90 kg category who never became world champion but i loved his style. He was always among the best in the world but could never manage to win it all. Giorgi Gogshelidze

[video=youtube;0SEnJDdIWZ8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SEnJDdIWZ8[/video]

 

[Shahin2000]

Although I don't follow wrestling as closely as other sports, I have to say Jordan Burroughs is one of the most dominating wrestlers I have seen in the past 20 plus years.

 

[TeamMeli]

Although I don't follow wrestling as closely as other sports, I have to say Jordan Burroughs is one of the most dominating wrestlers I have seen in the past 20 plus years.

He's nice I agree with you and in August of 2012, Burroughs defeated Sadegh Saeed Goudarzi of Iran to become the Olympic Champion at 74 kilos. The future is bright for him and you can tell he works hard by looking at his physique and I believe he had an injury in college but in his senior year he won his 3rd Big 12 and he won two national championships at Nebraska. He title he had his 17 game wining streak broken by the Wisconsin wrestler, who was also a champion and I know that because I watch a lot of Big 10 sports. The kid has a bright future and a possible future in MMA as well. If he learns some striking and takes some MT the guy will be a beast and dominate UFC.

 

[R.BAGGIO]

Saitiev vs Burroughs

that would be a match for the ages
Saitiev would take it via some unorthodox movement only Saitiev would do.

Aleksander Medved is a candidate too but that's way before my time

 

[TeamMeli]

Saitiev vs Burroughs

that would be a match for the ages
Saitiev would take it via some unorthodox movement only Saitiev would do.

Aleksander Medved is a candidate too but that's way before my time

You never know and you can never predict maybe Saitiev doesn't match up well with Burroughs one thing Burroughs has is pure athleticism and you can never take that lightly it would be one HELL of a match up though.

 

[R.BAGGIO]

It's a tough one to predict but I'd have to go with greatest of all time Saitiev. Almost everyone he faced was more athletic than him, but it's just his movement and technique were unbelievable, specially his movement. He was just one of those rare athletes that saw things in slow motion I believe, it sure looked like it. Some of his ground movement is not even wrestling movement it's more like Judo or BJJ.

Denis Tsargush wrestled both Saitiev and Burroughs
both very good matches to watch. Saitiev did not make the Russian team in 2007 though, was not his best year when he wrestled Tsargush. Also Tsargush was only 20 at the time.
[video=youtube;DUrtauim468]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUrtauim468[/video]

 

[R.BAGGIO]

I think Burroughs and Tsargush were both in peak condition for London 2012.

[video=youtube;iZDiocjP9AU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZDiocjP9AU[/video]

 

[Chinaski]

I have to say as someone who has been into wrestling for along time, i respect Burroughs physical capabilities but i simply dont like his style. He is not a good technician, he practically is always on his four spinnig around like a monkey. Yes he is quick, he is physical but to me he is way too much and way too often on his knees to look good.