Brexit negotiations ... disaster looming in the horizon.

TeamMeli

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Feb 5, 2014
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#61
Couple of things:

1) The UK could have decided on who comes in and who goes out with or without the EU. Same way Austria and Germany decide who comes into the country from outside of the EU, the UK could have done the same and was actually doing the same. Bright talents were never hindered to come to the UK from anywhere, and if anything, the UK will become now less attractive due to not being part of Europe.

The fact that Polish and Romanian workers came to the UK and had rights like other EU citizens, is something you might complain about as a Pakistani or Iranian, but then again, there was a reason they came to the UK in the first place, which is that the UK had a demand for these workers. And frankly, Polish workers for construction, carpenters, truck drivers are simply better educated than say Pakistani ones.
Same way, lots of Eastern German citizens are currently working in Switzerland as they get paid much more than in Germany. It's a give and take. The only thing Polish workers did to the UK was pay taxes. It was a non-zero-sum-game.

2) The main reason UK was attractive over the past 20-30 years for big banks was being part of the EU. Whether you like it or not, the UK will lose some banks as they will not be able to trade and clear Euro denominated bonds in the UK anymore. No one knows how many will leave, but there will be people leaving. Brexit will have a toll on the UK housing market, which has been a big part of the wealth for British citizens.
Bro THANK you so much and I agree with you 100% and DR JAN great sources about the UK's economy so I WAS right. I just wanted to let everyone know, I arrived home safely from Mexico and enjoyed speinding time with my Babooskha for a couple of days. UK is going to lose it's attractiveness because good workers are going to no longer be in the UK. The East German or GDR situation was also different, they were leaving CCCP 2.0 aka DDR. The UK is going to lose some of it's luster, bright minds and another nation will get the BRAIN DRAIN affect. Polish German, Iranian, Indian etc will all now go elsewhere and other nations will be the beneficiary of smart and educated workers. Also, as Doctor pointed out it does not matter if you are East German/Polish or Iranian/Indian, the English are equal opportunity BIGOTS! If you are not from a certain part of UK or have a title, from a well to do fam, then you are fighting an uphill battle. I got this information FROM people in the UK and I visited there multiple times. I JUST SPOKE with a lovely young UK couple on a flight to Mexico about this and they basically said the same thing. BTW Yes the reason why Germans and Polish came to the UK was because of COMMUNISM. Indians and Iranians, different story. Iranians because of the IR and Indians because India is a shithole. BTW Indians are successful in EVERY part of the world, except for INDIA, with the exception of a few big dogs.
 
Apr 15, 2016
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#62
The leftist toe rag that is the Guardian.

Many Iranians too suffer from the leftie neo-Liberal disease of the love for a big central government.

I am a UK citizen and I voted to leave the ghastly idiotic Union with all its idiotic bureaucracy run by a bunch of continental buffoon. The hell with the lot of them down there.

We can be a united Europe without having a central government to run every aspect of our lives. The EU will fall apart sooner or later and I am glad for my kids that Britain jumped this stupid sinking ship when it did.
Behrooz jan, i am with you on this issue and i think i have expressed it somewhere else before. The only thing i have a little beef with is your reasons. Leftie, liberal, financial industry...well thats far off reality. I know a lot of lefties who are against this corrupt EU construction. Its also not a liberal or anti liberal thing and the welfare system of a country like Germany has always been bigger and more generous than the UK and they are decreasing and cutting the benefits and welfare since the country is in the EU! Before EU the welfare system of the Germans has been by far more generous than it is today. So i guess you might be exposed to some ill informed sources who are running their own agenda based on wrong informations. Fact is EU is a purely capitalistic construction and idea and without the big capital being supporting it, it couldnt even be brought up as an idea let alone being realized and forced on so many millions of people around the whole continent. German people dont want it but nobody even asked about their opinions because asking and respecting their eventual denial would be a hell of a risk. A union without Germany is not possible so they just skipped the opinion of german people and forced it on them to get things going. The way i know you, you are advocating less government for years. With EU you would be getting exactly that though. The central and national governments are getting smaller and smaller and their radius of action and decisions is on the lowest level ever. So if you really want less government you should have gone with EU and not be against it. I am all against EU but because i want central and national governments to become more powerfull and not just be a faceless (under EU flag, they are all faceless motherfuckers who obey to corporates without any national feelings) institution called EU government filled with corrupt politicians who factually and evidently dont give a fuck about national interests and can get bribed a lot easier than dedicated politicians of a country who still feel commited to the benefits of their own people and their own country first. EU is an absolutely capitalistic plan to get rid of nations, people who feel commited to their nations and citizens, to get rid of essential borders and national laws which need to be there to prevent the big capital to graze and do whatever they like nationally and internationally without having to hesaab pas daadan to anyone.

If you look at it, weak national governments in europe are gettting ridiculed by the corporates nowadays and the general living standard of almost all "giving" EU members is decreasing fast under the EU banner why? Because the national governments are becoming to nonfactors, they have practically no power to decide over vital and essential matters, they have no power to protect the citizens from becoming cheap labor, they have no power to stop the corporates will to expand at whatever cost...why? Because the corporates under the flag of EU have made sure everything is getting without borders. There is no border to control the economic growth and their down sides, there is no border for a company to stay commited to their homeland and provide labor to domestic people. National governments used to held those companies accountable for their sood o zarar. Today, a government doesnt have the slightest power to tell a company like Benz, BMW, BASF...to pay x or y % of taxes because that borderlessness has made sure that company will easily reject paying the taxes and leave the country to open a branch in China or Brazil. So european governments are kept as hostage here nowadays. They cant ask the corporates to pay a reasonable amount of tax out of fear of them to leave the country and produce somewhere else, so as a result almost all european countries are now having problems with their yearly budget because less and less taxes are coming in but their systems are built on these taxes to keep up vital and essential social, cultural, medical things up and running. People are earning less money but the big corporates are getting richer and richer and all that under that fucked up EU flag. EU is just a capitalistic trojan horse mate. Those corporates are making astronomical amount of money, more than ever before but how comes their workers, those who are actually making the whole thing happen, are becoming poorer day by day? Fact is under EU, companies are paying a lot less taxes to central governments and this alone creates a big hole in the countries budgets so as a result the living standard can not be contained and has to decrease automatically. The corporates wins are privatized and the public has nothing to gain from it but as soon a big corporate makes losses, their losses get treated as public losses and the government helps out that fucked up corporate to get back on track using public money to equalize their losses and provide debt consolidation! Thats a disaster mate, this is a gigantic disaster which people dont seem to recognize. The community and public is asked to bail out a big corporate to become solid again so all of a sudden the corporates ask people to be communists, but as soon as the same corporate starts making milliards of euros , they skip the communist part and become capitalists again and the public has to leave them and their wins alone. These are the true reasons why we should be against EU by all means. We need strong national governments and politicians who are dedicated to their own people and countries. EU government are filled with motherfuckers who can easily be bribed to force the corporates will on millions of people. This is why this EU is so loved by the corporates, its easier to bribe fewer face and gutless people sitting in one single EU parliament and make them force things on people of several countries than to bribe so many people sitting in various national parliaments who, if at all, would only be able to affect the politics of one single country.
 

TeamMeli

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Feb 5, 2014
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#63
@Mahdi jan like I mentioned before, UK is being stupid because they are losing great minds. Countries like Poland, Germany(well back then DDR), Iran and India would educate their people for free. Those people would head west to the UK because one can make more money, especially in those countries I mentioned. Dr jan pointed this out and so did I, it is English bigotry but what do you expect with a system which has a House of Lords and a House of Commons. I was just discussing this topic with a lovely young couple, from the UK, they were from Surry so we had a bond. Anyways, the UK is going to lose on it's consumer based economy and it is not as big as people think. I poisted before that the BP is already down from 1.7 to 1.29 to the USD. I say those racist teabaggers have everything coming to them and then some: for everything they did in the past, what they are doing today and what they PLAN to do in the future. Obrytz tu Menya UK! Oh and you are right about Deutschland, Australia and UK btw came back from Aust and NZ 6 months ago, talk about a HAJJI PROBLEM, well same thing with DE. UK, DE can allow anyone they want to come in, regardless of what the poosy socialist EU thinks. However, I sort of saw this coming I saw the anti foreigner rhetoric and it does not matter if you are German or Indian, the English are equal opportunity racists.
 
#64
My point is that you are basing nothing on evidence. It is all fairytales and "faith" and "hope". It is a very simple point and you have ignored it completely, concentrating on my simile instead of the content of my post (i.e. deflecting the argument). You haven't answered a single point with proper evidence and then you concentrate on my simile and have the chutzpah to call my argument "intellectually inept"....!?

Bankers are already leaving and banks are already moving, what do you mean " that is not going to happen." It is ALREADY HAPPENING. Where is your evidence to the contrary? I don't want vague comments, I don't want "believe in this". What is this fairytale Britain that you're describing?
Let me flip this around. What evidence do you have that in the long run the EU will not be a disaster? Why are you any more knowledgable about the future than I am? I often hear arrogant Remoaners say: "Brexiteers didn't know what they were voting for". What a load of shlt. I ask the opposite question, did the Remoaners know what they were voting for? Do they know what the EU has in store for them in the future? What makes you less ignorant than me?

Sure there might be some short-term pain of Brexit, but in the long term I am sure my children will be much better off.
 
#65
Keyvan.
You tried but did a terrible job of connecting gooz and shaghigheh.

Why should someone from Slovenia or Poland walk in here and have an advantage over someone from Iran or India or Australia, simply because he/she belongs to an arbitrary political and economic Union? Whatever happened to merit? Contrary to how they like to advertise the EU, is not an open market. It's a restrictive market, limited to citizens of member states.

The EU reminds me of the line in George Orwell's Animal Farm: "all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others".
 
May 21, 2003
19,733
98
Not The Eshaalic Goozpublic !
#66
well bruv,
i guess we are at a little bit of a deadlock here.

lets wait a few years and see how you guys fare now that you are free of the shackles of Euro.

selling weapons to bullshit middle eastern camels does not count as exports. i am saying that ahead of time. :drunk:

as well as, licking trumps balls to throw a half eaten bone.

i guess we ll see.
 
Nov 29, 2002
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417
#67
well bruv,

as well as, licking trumps balls to throw a half eaten bone.

.
Absolutely correct on the middle east part, that's the only way forward now for this country to have relevance.


From speaking to American bankers on both sides of the political spectrum, they don't give a shit about the UK any more. UK's geopolitical strength has been powered by America's general view of UK as the rational, pragmatic Europeans they want to do business with.

Losing banks, bankers and industries as a direct consequence of UK leaving the EU doesn't give them the best sign. Now they see us as backward, regressive, not the "open for trade" pipedream that the Brexiters thought they would see us as. Trump is keeping up appearances at the moment because he wants to have the UK's military power available in case of a war, but beyond that I think they are getting their french and german phrasebooks out, and learning a bit of gaelic too perhaps.

It's like England deciding to leave FIFA because of it's corruption and backwardness. Outstanding, you are free from Fifa's shackles! But who the fuck would want to play you now?
 
#68
To say Britain is "not open for trade" because of Brexit is stupid and irrelevant. If anything, Britain will no longer be restricted by the EU and can go out and make its own deals with everyone.

Don't forget, there are plenty of European companies that have a lot at stake here too. They want a good deal because they don't want their trade with Britain to be damaged.

I guess we just have to wait and see. But I am confident Britain will come out of this better than most people think.
 
Nov 29, 2002
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417
#69
Today's banking news:

https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/35480957/banks-plan-to-move-9-000-jobs-over-brexit/#page1


The largest global banks in London plan to move about 9,000 jobs to the continent in the next two years, public statements and information from sources show, as the exodus of finance jobs starts to take shape.

Last week Standard Chartered and JPMorgan were the latest global banks to outline plans for their European operations after Brexit. They are among a growing number of lenders pushing ahead with plans to move operations from London. Goldman Sachs chief executive Lloyd Blankfein said in an interview on Friday that London's growth as a financial centre could "stall" as a result of the upheaval caused by Brexit.

Thirteen major banks including Goldman Sachs, UBS, and Citigroup have indicated of how they would bulk up their operations in Europe to secure market access to the European Union's single market when Britain leaves the bloc. Talks with financial authorities in Europe have been underway for several months, but banks are increasingly firming up plans to move staff and operations.

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Bank of America this week:
https://www.americanbanker.com/articles/b-of-a-likely-to-pick-dublin-for-main-eu-base-after-brexit

"B of A views Dublin as its default destination for a new hub inside the European Union if Brexit means the U.K. loses easy access to the single market, according to one of the firm's top executives in Germany. The bank will likely move some jobs to other cities across the EU, including Frankfurt, Madrid, Luxembourg and Amsterdam

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Frankfurt lays claims to banks fleeing the UK post-Brexit:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-banks-frankfurt-idUSKBN1811GA
 

Bache Tehroon

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#70
Mostly scare tactics to make Brexit look like a mistake (to prevent others from going their own way).

UK will not lose its significance. No sane American or Chinese bank is going to put its eggs in a French, German or Italian basket. Sure, a few reorgs and personnel moves will happen, but major capital will not flow out of England to go to EU.

Having more bank buildings is not a sign of economical prosperity. The 100,000 or so people employed by these banks and their related ventures are pretty much irrelevant. England is still a far superior immigration destination for most investors and workers than places like France, Germany or Italy. Culture, language and history play a part too. There's more to desirability of a place than tall bank buildings and finance operations, otherwise, Panama would be the #1 destination for immigration.

England will be fine. EU won't be.
 
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TeamMeli

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Feb 5, 2014
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#71
For now we can only speculate but I understand UK history and Dr jan is filling me in on tabloid racism, thank you Dr jan. It is going to get worse and they have everything coming to them, fooking teabaggers. Like I said UK's economy/GDP is consumer driven and the BP already took a hit plus Brasil just passed them up. As for Mahdi jan's point I mentioned people from Europe, Iran and India would used to go to UK even Germans but mainly Eastern Europeaners like Polish. Countries like Poland, Iran and India would educate them and UK used to get FREE educated people. Those days are GONE now but time will tell what LONG TERM impacts this Brixx fiasco will have. My prediction is not good and God Shave the Queen, nice Germanic Royal Family :)
 
Nov 29, 2002
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#74
Keyvan.
You tried but did a terrible job of connecting gooz and shaghigheh.

Why should someone from Slovenia or Poland walk in here and have an advantage over someone from Iran or India or Australia, simply because he/she belongs to an arbitrary political and economic Union?

this inconceivably myopic view... cutting not just your nose but also your eyes, ears and doodool to spite your face.
 
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Nov 29, 2002
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#77
Pat Condell Soroush, really?

A fucking failed comedian who is pretty damn illiterate and has spent the last 10 years shouting the sort of shit which would get both you and Behrouz (probably even me) deported back to Iran.

He's a kind of Alex Jones, Katie Hopkins sort of angry nutjob, with more xanthelasma. I guess he's a darling of the alt-right. You guys who are a bit "kasseh daghtar az aash" might think he is a kindred spirit but trust me, he isn't.


And Fuck Brexit by the way. BTW Behrouz stop talking garbage- I dislike the EU, a lot of people who voted remain do. Don't give this utopian "union" bullshit, an arrogant assumption. It's not that the corrupt monolithic organisation is perfect or even good. It's just that leaving it is rank socio-political and economic suicide based on lies and nostalgia.

In my own field, I've already seen a lot of great research nurses leave, funding for some important projects gone etc... in anticipation for Brexit. I don't know what field you work in, but you have children who are going to grow up in a lot more isolated, regressive looking country ("open to the world" my arsehole)
 
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Bache Tehroon

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#78
has spent the last 10 years shouting the sort of shit which would get both you and Behrouz (probably even me) deported back to Iran.
I don't follow him closely, but never seen anything hateful from him. He doesn't want his country contaminated by Islamists and freeloaders. Why would that get you or Behrouz deported (or me?!).

I think you're trying very hard to be short-sighted when it comes to Brexit, when deep-down you know it's not going to be the doom and gloom scenario you're trying so hard to anticipate.

Globalism is nothing but a more modern version of communism. Good in some aspects, terrible in others. As it stands, Its cons outweigh the pros. The world is not ready for it. Maybe some centuries in the future, but not now.
 
Nov 29, 2002
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417
#79
I think you're trying very hard to be short-sighted when it comes to Brexit, when deep-down you know it's not going to be the doom and gloom scenario you're trying so hard to anticipate.
Nah bro, I'm really hoping it's going to be OK with just a minor initial economic hit and that all of us "pseudo-intellectuals" and "elites" will be proved wrong (e.g. governor of the nation's bank, pretty much every economic and social thinktank from the political spectrum). At the end of the day I was born here and lived all my life here and culturally I'm more British than anything else despite my love of my ancestral home, so am I mental to want this to not work if it has to happen?

But my head is telling me its going to be a lot worse than what my heart is hoping. For most people it's a carte blanche for the biggest insecurities and backward beliefs - its the combination of ignorance and arrogance which other cults all over the world are experiencing now:

WhatsApp Image 2018-10-03 at 19.49.40.jpeg

If you speak to people in the finance industry in places like New York or Sydney, they seem to be the most anti-Brexit - they are asking us "why are you guys committing suicide, the reason why London is so powerful is because UK is seen as the stabilising force within the EU and the people we want to deal with, on your own you guys aren't anything special". People don't like admitting it, but UK's biggest industry is the financial sector, and we do need it to remain being a global capital.
BRITAIN-EU-JOBS.jpg

As I said, more than anything my field is already taking a hit. There are small margins in this huge healthcare system which has problems but is something the vast majority of Brits are very proud of. Seeing crucial people and funding leave in advance of Brexit is impacting my job already

Brexit-making-sense-of-issues-infographic.jpg

NHSC-Europe-Brexit-A4-26-Sept-(1).jpg
 
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Bache Tehroon

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#80
For most people it's a carte blanche for the biggest insecurities and backward beliefs - its the combination of ignorance and arrogance which other cults all over the world are experiencing now:
You consider yourself an intellectual and among the "elite", but really, that statement quoted above proves how arrogant, self-centered and dismissive of others you are.

Perhaps you're the "backward" one. Perhaps, labeling others ignorant and insecure is merely a projection? Have you thought about it?