Carlos Queiroz the mastermind Chess player

Sly · Jul 24, 2018

kasra1930 said:

Take it easy Kasra jan. I did not compare Croatia with Iran. They got to the final of the WC. That's not even in our dreams, let alone a comparison.

My point was, you don't necessarily need to have stadiums and a league like Spain for you to do relatively well against big teams in the WC. In that sense I do not agree with mr. Jalali. Although I do agree that a good league, good stadiums and good planing will improve our football tremendously.

Gaines · Jul 24, 2018

Pooya said:

Seriously? Cheap shot? No buddy. My post was not a cheap shot. The post below is:

Bache Tehroon said:

This was a cheap shot directed not only at me, but a whole country, its men, and its women; i.e. our daughters, sisters, mothers. Given that you did not have much to say about it, I assume it is just fine with you. And no it was not the first or the only time, your “moderator” has pulled this crap.

My post was also very related to the topic. The topic is CQ and possible outcomes for TM at AFC. I correctly pointed out that these haters that criticize Iran and TM at every chance, will not change colors even if TM wins the whole damn AFC. Looking for evidence: See your moderator's post again. Read it a couple of times. Let it sink in..

When the Iranian women won the AFC championship, despite all the hardships, all the road blocks, all the limitations, did your “old-timers” jump and cheer. NO. They disparaged them in the most despicable, disgusting manner that is befitting of their character. Are you not appalled, embarrassed, ashamed that such a person is a moderator on a site you administer?

My post was not a cheap shot either. It was actually a very expensive one. Your old-timers would have to spend years in therapy at $500/hour to figure out what the hell is wrong with them. Given the advantage of reading their drivel for a few years, I diagnosed their issues at no charge. No thanks necessary old-timers!!! Helping you all out is thanks enough.

p.s. Sorry for the late reply. I do not frequent this site for obvious reasons.

Sly · Jul 24, 2018

Dr Strangemoosh said:

I agree completely with that part and as mentioned not the least being the only person able to challenge Iran's football mafia, government, etc.

But what I mean is a little pressure from us fans, saying we want to see TM playing attractive football, would only make him being a bit less defensive minded so we can enjoy watching TM games even more. A little bit more excitement. TM has shown in the past 5 years that they know how to defend now. It's time to go a bit more forward, specially with the type of players we have at our disposal, like Jahanbakhsh, Torabi, Ghoddos, Taremi, Ansarifard, Kaveh Rezaei, Shekari, etc.

and by that I don't mean only against Asian teams but also against bigger European/South American teams.

oghabealborz · Jul 24, 2018

Dr Strangemoosh said:

I was very disappointed not to see Saman playing more minutes and not seeing Gucci in place of Taremi , also Azmoon playing so far back .

Dr Strangemoosh · Jul 24, 2018

Guys, in retrospect I wonder how you felt about how we approached the game with Morocco, which some of us have even forgotten?

Before the tournament almost every podcast and article had Morocco as the dark horses of the entire tournament and said they would beat either/both of Spain or Portugal. I was much more worried about Morocco than Spain and Portugal in the days before the tournament.

During their tournament they played better than all three of Iran, Spain (much better than Spain) and Portugal but only racked up 1 point due to naïveté (Hervé Renard is a great coach, but is no Queiroz when it comes to pragmatism) and some atrocious refereeing decisions in their games against Spain and Portugal.

After the world cup on the Guardian/Totally Football podcast, many contributors highlighted how Morocco played and said they lit up the group stages with the way they played, and were immensely unlucky.

Sly · Jul 25, 2018

Dr Strangemoosh said:

I totally agree with Guardian. I think they were very unlucky to get their first nervous game against Iran in which they were even more unlucky not to win. If they played their first game against a stronger side, I think they could have won both remaining games in the group stage.

Pooya · Jul 26, 2018

Dr Strangemoosh said:

Ostad, So you telling me, you would not cry if we play disciplined football but didnt make it out of the group ?
Again for the 1000000 times, I AM NOT taking ANYTHING away from CQ, No-one can question what he has DONE so FAR for TM. No-one, what I am not sure is, has given all he got to TM and its time for a new voice or he still has to give more. At the end of the day, for ME at least what matters is RESULTS, you dont get scored on for 23874892374 min means NOTHING to me, how far you went in a tournament is what matters, and the progress.

Anyway, correct me if I am wrong, but to summarize your post, IF we play disciplined football yet do NOT make it out of our group in 2022 AND do NOT make it to final / win Asian Cup, you would still keep CQ? is that correct?

OSTAD POOYA · Jul 26, 2018

The issue here is the type of questioning that's directed at CQ about progress while placing the super defensive side that does not get scored on easily against that objective of progress, versus playing very offensive and so called attractive football is wrong and flawed. You guys need to keep in mind the first step to being able to compete with better and stronger teams is before anything not losing. Once you are capable not to lose and at for the most part (In CQ terms over 90% which is the highest in Iranian history, and against Asian teams over 95%) then you have such a solid core and fundamental philosophy which gives you the capability to take it to the next level.

It seems the more efficient and solid results that are achieved by Iran some like to just not look at that at all and the bigger picture and just equate attractive or offensive against a whole philosophy which has taken years to build upon and discredit it.

2 WC's in a row by topping both groups which are both records for Iran and this is not progress? Have you forgotten losing to Bahrain, Qatar, and Saudi??? Drawing the likes of Thailand and Kuwait and getting eliminated???

In the last Asian cup Iran won all her group games. Then was leading Iraq and got an unfair red card and still managed to draw the game twice in OT playing with 10 men while losing in PK's. It was a very successful Asian Cup and something like that is out of the coaches hands. That was success there as well. Very good one.

In this WC almost making it out of the group as the winner and getting most points ever in the WC by Iran is not progress and playing good??? That's both results oriented and Iran showed they can hang with the biggest of them all. The bottom line is without defense and this discipline and order Iran will return to being just like the teams that lost to Bahrain and Qatar. We know how Iranian system works and the coaches. Just look at Asians champions league to see how far our teams get year in and year out. It will become the same.

Its time to appreciate and really understand the big picture of what CQ has done for Iran and continues to do

Pooya · Jul 26, 2018

OSTAD POOYA said:

I dont think anyone here is NOT appreciating what he has DONE, the question is, can he "Continue" to "IMPROVE" our team or not. NOT what he has done in the past. (personally I think there is no debate on what he has already accomplished).

Babr · Jul 26, 2018

This team will get better, i have no doubt in my mind. 4 years a go the team that almost got a draw against ARG had very few players in Europe. This team had 2/3 of squad playing outside. Queiroz is defensive coach and will remain one and we see more and more coaches becoming result oriented. Nothing wrong with it.
Now the way some talk as two consecutive qualification is not an achivement is like Iran made it to WC like Japan since last 20 yrs or like Korea forever.
In order to win a tournament or advaing from your group in WC, you need many factors on your side including luck. That made the difference between 4 points Iran vs 4 points Japan
Hala age in basharam bere. Fekr mikonid ki miad jash? Branko o dar dastash!!

Dr Strangemoosh · Jul 26, 2018

Pooya said:

You haven't answered my questions.

"At the end of the day, for ME at least what matters is RESULTS,"

You don't think qualifying twice in a row for WC, for the first time, is a success for Iran? We never managed it before, and we were always losing to Bahrain/Jordan/Kuwait etc.... so has something else changed? I am confused about your response to this.

If we qualify for next world cup, that will be 3 in a row for this team from a pariah state. So that isn't a good result for you?

If you think this is easy, and the expectation is that we qualify for consecutive world cups, why haven't we done this before?

If you answer these questions, then I will answer yours.

Pooya · Jul 27, 2018

Dr Strangemoosh said:

You haven't answered my questions.

"At the end of the day, for ME at least what matters is RESULTS,"

You don't think qualifying twice in a row for WC, for the first time, is a success for Iran? We never managed it before, and we were always losing to Bahrain/Jordan/Kuwait etc.... so has something else changed? I am confused about your response to this.

- Is it a success? YES, however, you need to also keep in mind, up until 2006, Asia had less than 3 spots, and now has 4.5, so this helps qualification as well. Furthermore, why do you keep going BACK to what CQ has done, did I not make it CLEAR what he has done is great? if so, let me say it AGAIN. my argument is "GOING FORWARD" is success for you is qualifying for 100 WC in a row? sure, if that's urs, then CQ is perfect coach! for me is making it 2nd round, if we keep qualifying for WC and keep getting out at group stage, whats the point? where is the PROGRESS in that?

If we qualify for next world cup, that will be 3 in a row for this team from a pariah state. So that isn't a good result for you?
- No, remember starting 2026, Asia gets 8 teams, so really qualifying for WC doesn't mean much. Success for me is "PROGRESS" not keep repeating what u already did.

If you think this is easy, and the expectation is that we qualify for consecutive world cups, why haven't we done this before?
- Again, up until 2006, less than 3 teams could qualify , now 4.5 and soon 8.

If you answer these questions, then I will answer yours.

Reply above in red.
I hope i answered them all.

Cheers,

OSTAD POOYA · Jul 27, 2018

Pooya jaan you are not correct in your assessment as where Asia had less than 3 teams qualifying to the world cup going back to 2006. Asia has had 4.5 spots going back to 2002 until now. So the years in 2002 and 2010 which Iran did not qualify the number of teams entry possibility was all identical. Going back to 1998 which was the first 32 team wc Asia had 3.5 spots at that time. The top two teams qualified and Iran played Japan for the 3rd spot and lost and then played Australia for the .5 spot.

So comparing CQ to WC's going back from 1998 (Including this one just as a record since 3.5 teams qualified and not 4.5) until 2014 which is a total of 5 tournaments this is how it goes:

1998 (Iran qualifies as a .5 birth from 3.5 teams as as the last team to make it to the WC)

2002 4.5 spots and Iran fails to qualify (Fails in playoffs losing to Ireland fighting for the .5 spot)
2006 4.5 spots and Iran qualifies as the 2nd team
2010 4.5 spots and Iran fails to even make it to plays offs. Becomes 4th in the group from 5 teams

2014 4.5 spots and Iran tops the group
2018 4.5 spots and Iran tops the group

So lets compare CQ results to the previous 3 before him which had the same number of entries at 4.5. 1 time losing in the playoffs/ 1 time qualifying and 1 time becoming 4th out of 5 and not even going to playoffs. so 1/3 times success and not even topping the groups once. That's a 33% success rate while failing bad at attempting.

Now under the same number of entries of 4.5 teams Iran has topped the charts both times and has qualified as group leaders. For 2018 as the 2nd team to make it to the WC after hosts already being there, Brazil and then Iran. (100% success rate while topping the groups both times). 1 less attempt also as where CQ is 2/2 and the 3 previous attempts are 1/3

First time ever in the 6 qualifiers with 32 teams where Iran was the group winners both times under CQ. so Iran went from 0/4 to topping groups, to 2/2 topping groups under CQ.

Progress has to be measured in steps and baby steps and you build upon it. The results of CQ proves that a lot of progress has been made. It is being made. And it will continue to be built. His work needs to be looked at as an overall comparison to the previous results so one can really see how much progress is being made.

OSTAD POOYA · Jul 27, 2018

We can also take it a step further and look at the qualifiers too and see how Iran performed in them. Comapare qualifying round from one year to another and the same results can be seen in greater details on how CQ has brought order and a lot of progress.

We can also do a WC by WC comparison as well and that will also prove how Iran played in her best WC in history in the aftermath of this successive progress of qualifying to 2 world cups in a row. These are all proof of progress and progress in the right direction and only getting better. Records of progress are all factual.

Dr Strangemoosh · Jul 27, 2018

Pooya said:

Agha, where are you getting this "less than 3 spots before 2006" from? Asia had 3.5 spots in 1998, 4.5 (including 2 home) in 2002, 4.5 in 2006 onwards.... What happened in 2002 and 2010? Ostad Pooya puts it much more detail, thanks.

Of course the goal of 2nd round is my dream, but I also want Iran to have a good long-term future, so that 2nd round becomes a minimum. If I see the building blocks successfully continuing to be put in place to further remove Iran from the shitty deimi, see-what-happens football of the past, then why should anyone want to go back to that shit? Why risk any chance of going back to that era of iranian football's style?

Remember, Japan lost its last three friendlies before the world cup. But everyone was impressed with how they played and when they brought it to the world cup itself, they got to the second round. It was a culmination of patience and hard work People were patient with the Japanese coach because they could see what was happening even if the results in those friendlies was poor.
Same goes for Iran, as long as we are making progress in HOW we are playing, we should be happy that we are going forwards not backwards. If it becomes obvious that Iran is stagnating, then that is time for CQ to go. No ifs, and, or buts.

Pooya · Jul 27, 2018

Dr Strangemoosh said:

1998 Asia had 3.5, however, in 2006 it had 2.5 really, yes 4.5 when 2 were already taken by Japan and Korea!
Anyway, I think we have beaten this topic to death.
- In Summary: We both agree what CQ has done to this point is fantastic
- You rather not take the risk and keep him
- IF we do find better coach (again not the likes of Parvin) , i am all for changing him , yes its a risk, but you have to take risks to progress.(IMO)

Cheers guys,

Dr Strangemoosh · Jul 27, 2018

Pooya said:

2002

I think we are in agreement, we have to take risks to progress. However I see our performance this world cup as a huge progression over before. Not even the results themselves (which was a record for Iran against three tough opponents) but the way the team actually played, the discipline that european club teams have. Iran played possibly the most disciplined football in the whole world cup.

When Iran stops progressing, it is time to replace CQ. For the moment, Iran is progressing.

I think we agree.

Pooya · Jul 27, 2018

Dr Strangemoosh said:

Agreed, just one last thing to add, regarding this being 3 tough opponents, i posted earlier, this was the first time ever for Iran, that the 2 teams in Iran group that did advance, did NOT make it past round of 16. So while we can argue, 3 big NAMES, (well 2 at least), their performance this this world cup was not one to remember for either of the 2.

Cheers,

lordofmordor · Jul 27, 2018

I dont think we can expect miracle to happen when the team does not get any top International friendlies.

You cant expect Iran who had not played any top teams to come out and open their defense and go out on attack against Spain. And Football is a funny business. Once a goal gets scored early, it can break the team confidence and end up in 4 or 5 quick goals for Spain.

Dr Strangemoosh · Jul 27, 2018

Pooya said:

I appreciate that they didn't get as far as they should have.

But looking at it the other way, was there a possibility that the european champions and the penultimate world cup champions were drained by playing:

A) A miserly African side who did not concede one single goal in qualifying against Ivory Coast, Aubameyang's Gabon and Mali, and tipped by many to be a dark horse for the tournament
B) An Iranian side which also had not conceded a single goal in the final stage by the time they had qualified

Two absolute defensive units, both of which may have run these two sides ragged. Then in the second round they had to play two teams whose other opposition were Saudi Arabia and a very poor Egypt side...

All three of Spain, Portugal and Iran played a Morocco side which was better performing than them. Spain and Portugal were very lucky with refereeing decisions, Iran with a last minute free-kick. The teams in this group had a much harder three games than the teams in group A.

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