Charts that summarize what's wrong with America

IPride

National Team Player
Oct 18, 2002
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Toronto, Canada
#1
I don't normally delve into these topics here on ISP and for the most part stayed far from the election related discussions..but thought many would find these charts interesting. United States today is truly a story of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer...
I had been hearing about this concept for a long time but had to move down here last year to really understand what is meant. I lived on the East Coast and now on the West Coast, it's all the same.

The fact of the matter is the far right talks about culture of entitlements crippling this country but I think the true entitlement mentality that is to blame is held by the super wealthy in this country that believe just because they're successful that they earned it 100% due to their own abilities and 0% at the cost of the general society..they feel entitled to everything including keeping more of the economy's output at the expense of employees and paying less in taxes at the expense of the middle class.

The bad news for everyone (including the super rich) is that this is not sustainable...at the end of the day it's the 98% that keeps the economy going and if their incomes don't go higher, the real economy won't either. The "job creators" won't do jack shit until there is an opportunity for them to make more money - so don't count on them to get this economy back on its feet.

Companies' profit margins at highest ever but paying the lowest wages in history as a % of the economy:





The long-run history of taxes on the super rich (over $2m in income):





The end result is this:


and this : 64% of all income growth since 1979 has gone to the top 10%...

 

Flint

Legionnaire
Jan 28, 2006
7,016
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United States
#2
I can make charts to show anything you want. I can make charts to show cancer rate goes up as taxes on the wealthy goes down, or goes up. Take your pick. So toss your charts and make a simple, coherent argument if you want a discussion.
 

IPride

National Team Player
Oct 18, 2002
5,885
0
Toronto, Canada
#3
What? Toss data and charts and make arguments using excerpts from the bible I guess?

Since you're good at putting charts together why don't you put a chart together (using data from reputable sources) that refutes the notion that the rich are getting richer while the middle class is getting smaller.
 

Mahdi

Well-known member
Jan 1, 1970
6,999
496
Mjunik
#5
great post...it was a real pity you didn't participate more during the election, because abstract and metaphysical talks and ideas don't get people anywhere.

I'm reading "Why Nations Fail" right now, and I have just started it, so I haven't made it to the parts where they make it to the parts about the US right now. But it was interesting to read about the differences among the settlers in North and South America. Unlike the idea that many have about the first settlers being idealistic hard workers, it's rather that they were forced to do so, because the Indians were not ready to work and had nothing to give them, unlike Inkas, Mayas and everyone else, plus the fact that people who got voted into office had to pay their dues and be responsible to people who voted them in and not the "superwealthy".
Every step the US had taken since 2000 was a step in the direction of every failed empire...I hope it changes because for what it's worth, the US is still historically by far the best super power we had and I don't think that any coming superpower will be much better.
 

Flint

Legionnaire
Jan 28, 2006
7,016
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United States
#6
Since you're good at putting charts together why don't you put a chart together (using data from reputable sources) that refutes the notion that the rich are getting richer while the middle class is getting smaller.
I assure you that even if the rich got poorer, you will not see one cent of that in your bank account. So stop lusting over other people's money. Go get your own.
 

Mahdi

Well-known member
Jan 1, 1970
6,999
496
Mjunik
#7
I assure you that even if the rich got poorer, you will not see one cent of that in your bank account. So stop lusting over other people's money. Go get your own.
LOL

aehm....dude, you just knocked yourself out...big time...
 

R.BAGGIO

National Team Player
Oct 19, 2002
5,702
0
Toronto
#9
I assure you that even if the rich got poorer, you will not see one cent of that in your bank account. So stop lusting over other people's money. Go get your own.
I hope it's settled now that Flint came in and made this unequivocal statement. I for one am satisfied. :sleep:
 

Mahdi

Well-known member
Jan 1, 1970
6,999
496
Mjunik
#10
No, it is YOU who is left speechless.
speechless about what? about you telling a guy who obviously is doing something in finance to start to make money....I mean, you, as a peasant living somewhere around Fresno.

yeah, your trolling, dumbness and allergy to facts and numbers leave me speechless.
 
Nov 10, 2002
9,573
726
#11
Great article indeed, The rich are getting richer and the poor poorer

The fact is that the prosperity of America came when there were a lot of middle class people, They earned reasonable money and could spend the money. Now the middle class is shrinking and I think it will have immense effect on rich people as well ...
This trend will fail one day ...
 

IPride

National Team Player
Oct 18, 2002
5,885
0
Toronto, Canada
#12
great post...it was a real pity you didn't participate more during the election, because abstract and metaphysical talks and ideas don't get people anywhere.

I'm reading "Why Nations Fail" right now, and I have just started it, so I haven't made it to the parts where they make it to the parts about the US right now. But it was interesting to read about the differences among the settlers in North and South America. Unlike the idea that many have about the first settlers being idealistic hard workers, it's rather that they were forced to do so, because the Indians were not ready to work and had nothing to give them, unlike Inkas, Mayas and everyone else, plus the fact that people who got voted into office had to pay their dues and be responsible to people who voted them in and not the "superwealthy".
Every step the US had taken since 2000 was a step in the direction of every failed empire...I hope it changes because for what it's worth, the US is still historically by far the best super power we had and I don't think that any coming superpower will be much better.
I totally agree with you. I shiver at the fact that USSR was once a super power capable of destroying the world.. I also shiver at the fact that China could soon take USSR's place.
Despite everything the US has done internally and externally, it has by far been the most benevolent super power the world has ever seen.

As you said, unfortunately, it is showing all the symptoms of a great nation collapsing at the seems.
 

Flint

Legionnaire
Jan 28, 2006
7,016
0
United States
#13
I totally agree with you. I shiver at the fact that USSR was once a super power capable of destroying the world.. I also shiver at the fact that China could soon take USSR's place.
Despite everything the US has done internally and externally, it has by far been the most benevolent super power the world has ever seen.

As you said, unfortunately, it is showing all the symptoms of a great nation collapsing at the seems.
I agree. When in a country of the 99-cent cheeseburger you have 45 million going "hungry" you got a problem.
 

ME

National Team Player
Nov 2, 2002
5,548
93
#14
No disrespect to anyone but why all you guys in selected developed countries of the world are so concerned about what is wrong in America? Isn't it by any chance because it is more wrong in your home countries and your economy, standarad of living, and your own job security depends on this so labled ailing American system?

And trust me on this one, unless one has mental illness or a serious physical condition, there is no reason to belong to the lower class in America unless you choose it yourself by the certain life style or values you adopt.
 

IPride

National Team Player
Oct 18, 2002
5,885
0
Toronto, Canada
#15
No disrespect to anyone but why all you guys in selected developed countries of the world are so concerned about what is wrong in America? Isn't it by any chance because it is more wrong in your home countries and your economy, standarad of living, and your own job security depends on this so labled ailing American system?

And trust me on this one, unless one has mental illness or a serious physical condition, there is no reason to belong to the lower class in America unless you choose it yourself by the certain life style or values you adopt.
Of course we talk about it because it affects our lives...who tried to keep it a secret?
And trust me, what happens to America and its political/economic well being will have severe consequences in the rest of the world. Don't kid yourself.

As to your second argument, I used to think exactly just like you - that if you had an able body and the will to do something you would be able to do it. Until I moved to NYC and took weekend trips out to Queens, Brooklyn, Harlem, Bronx, etc... There are severe societal issues in many places that hold people back from living up to their potential EVEN if they wanted to and had the values to succeed.

There are affirmative action, scholarships, all sorts of supports in place but unfortunately it isn't enough and the ailing economy isn't helping either.
 

Flint

Legionnaire
Jan 28, 2006
7,016
0
United States
#16
Until I moved to NYC and took weekend trips out to Queens, Brooklyn, Harlem, Bronx, etc..
If you embark on finding misery and failure in America you will find them. But success stories far outnumbers failures. I can't think of one Iranian who has failed here. 5 years from landing in JFK to first house is not uncommon. Yet, there are able bodied Americans who are constantly told that they don't have what it takes, just like you are saying. And please don't blame America for the incompetence of your local governments.
 

IPride

National Team Player
Oct 18, 2002
5,885
0
Toronto, Canada
#17
If you embark on finding misery and failure in America you will find them. But success stories far outnumbers failures. I can't think of one Iranian who has failed here. 5 years from landing in JFK to first house is not uncommon. Yet, there are able bodied Americans who are constantly told that they don't have what it takes, just like you are saying. And please don't blame America for the incompetence of your local governments.
I don't think you get what is being said here and don't blame you. It takes an open mind and an open heart, which you've clearly demonstrated that you have neither.

You jumped into this discussion by coming across as a prejudiced idiot and making assumptions about my financial well being and attacking me personally. For your info, I do quite well for myself and don't rely on anyone or any local government to get by but I'm smart enough to understand that what happens to the not so fortunate in this country will sooner or later have a direct impact on my life and the lives of my children.
 

Flint

Legionnaire
Jan 28, 2006
7,016
0
United States
#18
I do quite well for myself and don't rely on anyone or any local government to get by but I'm smart enough to understand that what happens to the not so fortunate in this country will sooner or later have a direct impact on my life and the lives of my children.
Oh, I care all the time on internet forums too.
 

Mahdi

Well-known member
Jan 1, 1970
6,999
496
Mjunik
#19
Of course we talk about it because it affects our lives...who tried to keep it a secret?
And trust me, what happens to America and its political/economic well being will have severe consequences in the rest of the world. Don't kid yourself.

As to your second argument, I used to think exactly just like you - that if you had an able body and the will to do something you would be able to do it. Until I moved to NYC and took weekend trips out to Queens, Brooklyn, Harlem, Bronx, etc... There are severe societal issues in many places that hold people back from living up to their potential EVEN if they wanted to and had the values to succeed.

There are affirmative action, scholarships, all sorts of supports in place but unfortunately it isn't enough and the ailing economy isn't helping either.
I think NY is actually ok because you got public transport and people can make it to the city. Take a look at LA. You're completely fucked without a car. How long does it take by public transport to make it from somewhere around Watts to even Downtown LA? Nevermind Santa Monica and what not. LA is severely divided between poor and rich. Obviously it's about the person too but that's not all.
 

ME

National Team Player
Nov 2, 2002
5,548
93
#20
Of course we talk about it because it affects our lives...who tried to keep it a secret?
And trust me, what happens to America and its political/economic well being will have severe consequences in the rest of the world. Don't kid yourself.

As to your second argument, I used to think exactly just like you - that if you had an able body and the will to do something you would be able to do it. Until I moved to NYC and took weekend trips out to Queens, Brooklyn, Harlem, Bronx, etc... There are severe societal issues in many places that hold people back from living up to their potential EVEN if they wanted to and had the values to succeed.

There are affirmative action, scholarships, all sorts of supports in place but unfortunately it isn't enough and the ailing economy isn't helping either.
Yes, I knew we would agree on that everyone is rightfully interested in the US economy because it will eventually going to affect everyone's situation everywhere in the world. But then, my point is that isn't it a sign that this system in toto is in better shape than many if not all other systems across the world?

Regrding the hardship of living in NYC, you are right. But not everyone has to have a white collar job or a PhD and live in urban areas. People can live in a farm in Texas or Cali, pick tomatoes, and support a family if they work hard. Millions of illegal immigrants are doing this while also fighting discrimination. Uneducated folks can work in the coal mines and easily make 6 digits. People who can stay away from drugs and are willing to work can drive a UPS truck and be in better financial shape than a lot of college educated ones. The examples are countless. Now if one likes to live in a metro, have access to cocaine and slim girls, and live like what they portray in soap operas, then the options are not as widely available.