Charts that summarize what's wrong with America

Flint

Legionnaire
Jan 28, 2006
7,016
0
United States
#41
You link to that hack Krugman as evidence for your argument? If you don't like your paycheck go start your own business and write your own check. Until then, put your head down and get to work.
 

Mahdi

Elite Member
Jan 1, 1970
6,999
497
Mjunik
#42
You link to that hack Krugman as evidence for your argument? If you don't like your paycheck go start your own business and write your own check. Until then, put your head down and get to work.
I don't normally delve into these topics here on ISP and for the most part stayed far from the election related discussions..but thought many would find these charts interesting. United States today is truly a story of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer...
Yup...just look at this last page...something about the 19th century, perspective, Australia, not reading an article but making a comment...understandable that you didn't want to waste your time.
 

shahinc

Legionnaire
May 8, 2005
6,745
1
#43
It's admirable that you were able to do that but I am more than certain that you are the exception and not the rule. .
I am not sure about US but in Canada in the middle of 80s and 90s that was very common. I know many people who came here when 20-25, after spending 1-5 years as refugees in Greece, Turkey, Pakistan and Cyprus with less than $1000 in their pockets. Most of them are either successful businessmen, highly educated engineers, lawyers or ...
This is why I love this country. It is the land of opportunities and you can become anything you want and go after any dream you might have without having a penny or even support of your family behind you.
 
Oct 16, 2002
39,533
1,513
DarvAze DoolAb
www.iransportspress.com
#44
I am not sure about US but in Canada in the middle of 80s and 90s that was very common. I know many people who came here when 20-25, after spending 1-5 years as refugees in Greece, Turkey, Pakistan and Cyprus with less than $1000 in their pockets. Most of them are either successful businessmen, highly educated engineers, lawyers or ...
This is why I love this country. It is the land of opportunities and you can become anything you want and go after any dream you might have without having a penny or even support of your family behind you.
Azizjan, for every successful engineer you know that came in the middle 80s and 90s with nothing in their pocket, there is at least two or three persons of the same history who are still struggling to make ends meet.

Canada and USA are not necessarily the lands of opportunities. They are countries where you're more likely to break the lower-middle-class barrier via legal means. Also, if you got a bright idea that can go viral, you're more likely to see money for it in North America.

An opportunistic person wouldn't waste a minute in North America these days. There are far better opportunities elsewhere.
 

shahinc

Legionnaire
May 8, 2005
6,745
1
#45
Azizjan, for every successful engineer you know that came in the middle 80s and 90s with nothing in their pocket, there is at least two or three persons of the same history who are still struggling to make ends meet.
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BT Jan, I know some of those guys too and some of them are my family members and at the end of the day, what you define as a good life that can give you happiness. Some have these idealist standards which maybe hard to attain here. But if your goals and dreams are realistic than:

From my personal experience and looking around me, it is all about working hard, pushing yourself, taking chances and making sacrifices.
It think making the sacrifices is the most important thing which many people fail to do. Prioritizing your goal and not getting hang up on what you don't have.
Nothing is handed to you here except the bare minimum so you survive and can just live.
For everything else, you have to work hard BUT no one here tries to STOP you or take away your RIGHTS or DISCRIMINATE against you and try to HOLD you BACK.

At the end, this is just my personal experience after living almost 17 years now in NA and different people can have different experiences.
 
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Oct 16, 2002
39,533
1,513
DarvAze DoolAb
www.iransportspress.com
#46
BT Jan, I know some of those guys too and some of them are my family members and at the end of the day, what you define as a good life that can give you happiness. Some have these idealist standards which maybe hard to attain here. But if your goals and dreams are realistic than:

From my personal experience and looking around me, it is all about working hard, pushing yourself, taking chances and making sacrifices.
It think making the sacrifices is the most important thing which many people fail to do. Prioritizing your goal and not getting hang up on what you don't have.
Nothing is handed to you here except the bare minimum so you survive and can just live.
For everything else, you have to work hard BUT no one here tries to STOP you or take away your RIGHTS or DISCRIMINATE against you and try to HOLD you BACK.

At the end, this is just my personal experience after living almost 17 years now in NA and different people can have different experiences.
True. Hard work in North America has a much better chance of paying off than anywhere else in the world.
 

IPride

National Team Player
Oct 18, 2002
5,885
0
Toronto, Canada
#47
What gets me is the 99 weeks of unemployment. Does anybody think if someone can't get a job in 99 weeks he is really looking for work or is even employable? 99 weeks? I personally know two people, Iranians no less, who flatly said they were not going to look for a job until they exhaust their benefits. Their lives had hardly changed.
I think we all know of someone who is abusing the system, but are you saying the reason we are not at full employment is because people are not looking or are unemployable? And that if you really wanted you would find a job? You probably dont understand what recession means snd don't truly comprehend how the economy works.

Going back to people abusing, I always tell myself that if my tax dollars (and I pay a boat load) go toward five assholes abusing the system but one family that truly needs it then I'm okay with that. I guess thats something that most righnuts don't get because its all about them.
 

IPride

National Team Player
Oct 18, 2002
5,885
0
Toronto, Canada
#48
If poverty instead of culture was the main reason behind the crime in America, then populations of countries like India or Cambodia shouldn’t even be half of what they are today – they would have just killed each other off a long time ago.
Where do you think the "culture" of African Americans came from? Dont you think it has been largely influenced by centuries of systematic discrimination, which is still ongoing? Even during the most recent elections?

Don't you think centuries of being looked down on and being held back influences your outlook on the world and desire to go oute there and achieve?
Im not saying blacks in this country should sit home and collect unemployment checks but im saying its extremely unfair to hold someone back in a race for so long and tell them they have a chance to win if "they really wanted to".
 

Mahdi

Elite Member
Jan 1, 1970
6,999
497
Mjunik
#49
^^^

the culture argument is pretty much bullshit anyway...

the same "cultural flaws" that exist among blacks, exist to a degree in the UK among chavs, cockneys and what not too..just that gun laws in the UK are more restrictive and there never was the same level of drug epidemic in the UK as in the US.

given the same chances and possibilities, all perform the same way and that depends on attitude..no matter what culture they come from.

The perspective argument is also great...it opens up a whole pandora's box that we should regard tyrannic regimes with some perspective because in the end Nazis were far worse and North Korea even more. But at least now we know that Adam Carrolla has at least one subscriber on ISP. ;)
 

Flint

Legionnaire
Jan 28, 2006
7,016
0
United States
#50
I think we all know of someone who is abusing the system, but are you saying the reason we are not at full employment is because people are not looking or are unemployable? And that if you really wanted you would find a job? You probably dont understand what recession means snd don't truly comprehend how the economy works.

Going back to people abusing, I always tell myself that if my tax dollars (and I pay a boat load) go toward five assholes abusing the system but one family that truly needs it then I'm okay with that. I guess thats something that most righnuts don't get because its all about them.
Why are you stopping at 99 weeks? This is exactly doosti khaleh kherseh. After 99 weeks of not working your are worthless to any employer. You know it and I know it. If someone isn't finding a job after 99 weeks he doesn't want a job or has no skills that anybody would want to hire him. You really want to work? Go to Texas, Oklahoma or any of gas and oil states( sorry, there are no "wind or solar states"), 18 years old kids are making a 100 grand year driving around trucks.
 

IPride

National Team Player
Oct 18, 2002
5,885
0
Toronto, Canada
#51
Why are you stopping at 99 weeks? This is exactly doosti khaleh kherseh. After 99 weeks of not working your are worthless to any employer. You know it and I know it. If someone isn't finding a job after 99 weeks he doesn't want a job or has no skills that anybody would want to hire him. You really want to work? Go to Texas, Oklahoma or any of gas and oil states( sorry, there are no "wind or solar states"), 18 years old kids are making a 100 grand year driving around trucks.

One thing that always kills me about you folks on the right is that you tend to over simplify the heck out of every complex socio economic issue out there. I call it the Palin syndrome.

Why dont we get rid of the treasury and the federal reserve all together and just appoint you to tell people to go drive a truck everytime we face a recession and high unemployment?

Dude its called a recession because demand contracts and there isnt enough jobs out there for everyone to stay employed (or for the economy to get to full employment, which is somewhere close to 4% unemployment). Even if every unemployed person went out and looked for a trucking job there would still be many without something to do.
 

Khorus

National Team Player
Oct 25, 2002
5,193
0
CA
#52
Going back to people abusing, I always tell myself that if my tax dollars (and I pay a boat load) go toward five assholes abusing the system but one family that truly needs it then I'm okay with that. I guess thats something that most righnuts don't get because its all about them.
This little quote pretty much nails my feelings on the topic!! Well said! It is really amazing how much hate there is among these nut jobs right wing conservatives who claim to be "god fearing Christians"!! Zero tolerance, zero flexibility, zero compassion....!!
 
Aug 26, 2005
16,771
4
#53
If you are so giving why don't you voluntarily give up your money now, without the force of government? Forced benevolence...you guys are too kind.
 

IPride

National Team Player
Oct 18, 2002
5,885
0
Toronto, Canada
#54
If you are so giving why don't you voluntarily give up your money now, without the force of government? Forced benevolence...you guys are too kind.
Im sorry but this is a pretty idiotic argument which I hear alot from rightwingers whenever someone, who does well for himself, asks for others to give more.

Any person with half a brain would understand that for somethings to happen across a nation, we need everyone who can to chip in. Medicare, medicaid, social security, etc which in their correect form are essential for this nation to remain civil require trillions of dollars over years to remain viable. Not even warren buffet will all his money can fund it by himself. Thats why we have government, to coordinate efforts across a country.
 
Oct 18, 2002
7,941
0
704 Houser
#55
I'm with Kaz on this.

We should go back to the old system when there was no income tax. The good thing about that system was that when all people who hadn't saved up their money wisely got old, they would go into extreme poverty and die from disease and malnutrition. Imagine if all the dumb old people died before they could impose this massive public debt on our society. And all those whores who keep pumping out babies out of wedlock? Forget about it. They would hopefully die too along with their bastard children. Less retards burdening our private school system. The rich could continue making charitable donations to the arts, their Alma mater, and other trivial things that captured their interest. It would be a perfect society once more.
 
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Aug 26, 2005
16,771
4
#56
Im sorry but this is a pretty idiotic argument which I hear alot from rightwingers whenever someone, who does well for himself, asks for others to give more.

Any person with half a brain would understand that for somethings to happen across a nation, we need everyone who can to chip in. Medicare, medicaid, social security, etc which in their correect form are essential for this nation to remain civil require trillions of dollars over years to remain viable. Not even warren buffet will all his money can fund it by himself. Thats why we have government, to coordinate efforts across a country.
And I guess I just got the standard, leftist, reply. An even more idiotic argument.

If a system is going to work, then it should work regardless of how many people are in it. The kind of system which has to entrap the whole population to work as justification is the essence of the problem itself. 50 Warren Buffets won't help in the long run if you understand why it costs so much to look after so many people.

None of those programs work without loss, so the insinuative argument is that we should all be fucked because some people think its right. Well, if you think its right, do it yourself, on your own dime and get together those who think alike. When you do that, then you can kiss yourself in the mirror and brag about your generosity.

For people like yourself to claim some moral high-ground yet at the same time use what is essentially theft to claim that high-ground is beyond the pale. It's the kind of intellectual block one sees from religious zealots where their own circular reasoning and their own morality is justification enough.

True charity and true caring of ones neighbour has nothing to do with what you advocate. It is akin to bombing/invading a country for the benefit of the inhabitants. Don't worry about whether such action is desired...you're the good guys ;).

You know what the irony is? That you claim you are ok with 5 guys abusing the system if it means a family gets help. Well, why don't you just cut out the 5 guys abusing them and help 2 families out? But no, that might actually mean you'd have to get involved with your benevolence.

I'm with Kaz on this.

We should go back to the old system when there was no income tax. The good thing about that system was that when all people who hadn't saved up their money wisely got old, they would go into extreme poverty and die from disease and malnutrition. Imagine if all the dumb old people died before they could impose this massive public debt on our society. And all those whores who keep pumping out babies out of wedlock? Forget about it. They would hopefully die too along with their bastard children. Less retards burdening our private school system. The rich could continue making charitable donations to the arts, their Alma mater, and other trivial things that captured their interest. It would be a perfect society once more.
An absolutely retarded depiction of what would happen. We discussed this before: the biggest movement from the poor to rich occurred in precisely a time where there was no income tax.

Its gotten to the point where I don't expect facts nor logic to sway you, so for people wondering why there is an endless shit-cycle, you just got your reason in the two posts above. "Fuck what works; let's just go with what I think is better...and fuck what you think, you're coming down with me" is the message. You gotta love these benevolent people. They'll rob you blind and tell you its for your own good. Any other alternative is akin to the holocaust.
 
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Oct 18, 2002
7,941
0
704 Houser
#57
An absolutely retarded depiction of what would happen.
Of course, it's the exact opposite of what I described. Once we get rid of the Fed, we are never going to have another downturn in the economy. Everyone who saved and invested his money carefully is going to be rewarded, will never outlive his savings and will even have residuals for his offspring. It's guaranteed. It's like the laws of physics. "Sluts" will stop screwing around too. Definitely. People will act responsibly when the consequences of their actions are harsher. On the off chance that a woman is accidentally impregnated without being prepared for it, the Koch brothers will be there to cover her medical expenses and offer future assistance. It will happen for sure. They do so much already, paying for conservative causes like FreedomWorks, the art projects that their wives and daughters get to enjoy with their high society friends, and cancer research for the types of cancers they have in their family.
 

Flint

Legionnaire
Jan 28, 2006
7,016
0
United States
#59
Dude its called a recession because demand contracts and there isnt enough jobs out there for everyone to stay employed (or for the economy to get to full employment, which is somewhere close to 4% unemployment). Even if every unemployed person went out and looked for a trucking job there would still be many without something to do.
I think I finally smoked you out. You are not even satisfied with 99 weeks. You want permanent unemployment benefits because there is always someone, somewhere who "can't find a job. The irony is that if YOU were unemployed you would tai ANY job to support your family, wouldn't you?
 

IPride

National Team Player
Oct 18, 2002
5,885
0
Toronto, Canada
#60
And I guess I just got the standard, leftist, reply. An even more idiotic argument.

If a system is going to work, then it should work regardless of how many people are in it. The kind of system which has to entrap the whole population to work as justification is the essence of the problem itself. 50 Warren Buffets won't help in the long run if you understand why it costs so much to look after so many people.

None of those programs work without loss, so the insinuative argument is that we should all be fucked because some people think its right. Well, if you think its right, do it yourself, on your own dime and get together those who think alike. When you do that, then you can kiss yourself in the mirror and brag about your generosity.

For people like yourself to claim some moral high-ground yet at the same time use what is essentially theft to claim that high-ground is beyond the pale. It's the kind of intellectual block one sees from religious zealots where their own circular reasoning and their own morality is justification enough.

True charity and true caring of ones neighbour has nothing to do with what you advocate. It is akin to bombing/invading a country for the benefit of the inhabitants. Don't worry about whether such action is desired...you're the good guys ;).

You know what the irony is? That you claim you are ok with 5 guys abusing the system if it means a family gets help. Well, why don't you just cut out the 5 guys abusing them and help 2 families out? But no, that might actually mean you'd have to get involved with your benevolence.

.
You make several points none of which are related nor make sense.

When people decide to live in a civil society they agree to live by certain mutually agreed upon sets of rules and standards which are vetted by legal and democratic institutions.
Of course rules and moral grounds shift over time as people evolve.
Social safety nets such as social security, Medicare, medicaid, etc. have all been put in place because people agreed they were necessary in order to have civil society.
If you think it is theft to tax people to pay for what is agreed to by the majority you should probably pack your bags and go elsewhere. Its simple.

As for systems having to be self sustaining and the rest of the gibberish, I guess by***your argument defense spending is unjustified because it costs alot of money and can't be paid for by 50 warren buffets and isnt self sustaining as having each person fend for themselves is not effective against an enemy.
Why don't we just give people buckets and ask them to put out fires around the country so we get rid of the fire departments?
Again your arguments are simpleminded.