Dear Oldman..

[RoozbehAzadi]

First of all thanks for coming back. I hope Liberator comes back as well and we value your voices.

My question to you is this:

Let's say that Iran changes and people vote for a Republic over a Constitutional Monarchy. And then in this Republic, there's a Presidential election. In this election, let's say there are several candidates: Reza Pahlavi, Gholam-Hossein Karbaschi, and Ali Larijani. And then let's say in the election Karbaschi wins 55-60% of the vote with RP and Larijani splitting the rest. Would you accept Karbaschi as the legitimate leader of Iran in this scenario?

Of course we're assuming the elections are totally free and fair and monitored for such by the UN and other international bodies to make sure no cheating goes on.

I ask you this because I know how much those who support or supported the monarchy wish for somebody like Reza Pahlavi to be the leader and I'm wondering if you would accept someone like Karbaschi who's somewhat religious yet known as "reformist" if he wins in a free and fair election.

Thank you Oldman-jan.

 

[Oldman]

Ba dorood:

Thanks for asking me to come back.

I hope that you do not expect a simple YES or NO for your question that is a paragraph long. Your question has many “factors” that are not possible but for the sake of example, I accept them and have to reply as below.

Please note, your example has a point but using the extreme has somewhat diminished it, in my opinion.

Let me answer your question this way.

I, not just personally, but CPI (Hezb Mashrooteh) have democratic views. When I use the word DEMOCRACY, I mean it as such, nothing more an dnothing less, MARDOM SAALAARI to the fullest.

So, if your point of using such characters as Karbaschi (dozd) and Larijaani (araghi) to see the threshold, I have to say, nothing beats the vote of people in my book.

Give me 6 months and allow me to camping in free Iran on the two TYPES OF Governments (which is really about 2% of the constitution) ten you will see many would vote for a Constitutional Monarchy with HIM Reza Pahlavi as the Monarch.

My camping is very simple, I ask people to LISTEN to HIM Reza Pahlavi and I try to point out how important their voting power is no matter under each types of governments.

Did I answer your question?

 

[Farzad-USA]

Ba dorood:

I, not just personally, but CPI (Hezb Mashrooteh) have democratic views. When I use the word DEMOCRACY, I mean it as such, nothing more an dnothing less, MARDOM SAALAARI to the fullest.


Did I answer your question?

Democratic view? Aziz, you called everyone who is against your political view either traitor or IRI supporter. Not long time ago, you called many websites including Rooz and Gooya, supporters of IRI, you called NIAC a lobbyist organization for IRI. With all due respect, do you even know what democratic view means? It means respecting the opinion of everyone, it means if sometime is against your political view do not call that person a traitor or IRI lobbyist. Democratic view means debate the issue with FACTS. You can disagree with me on the issues but you do not need to call me IRI supporter or lobbyist.

 

[masoudA]

Democratic view? Aziz, you called everyone who is against your political view either traitor or IRI supporter. Not long time ago, you called many websites including Rooz and Gooya, supporters of IRI, you called NIAC a lobbyist organization for IRI. With all due respect, do you even know what democratic view means? It means respecting the opinion of everyone, it means if sometime is against your political view do not call that person a traitor or IRI lobbyist. Democratic view means debate the issue with FACTS. You can disagree with me on the issues but you do not need to call me IRI supporter or lobbyist.
__________________

Pure Nonesense. With all due respect - Farzad jaan what you are doing here is headhunting via maghlateh. Everything you are claiming that Oldman siad may end up proving to be true in the future. You appear to wish to keep your head in the sand about NIAC - but the fact remains that there are serious allegations about him in USA court system - as he is now being claimed to be DIRECTLY attached to IRI.

As for the Question post by Roozbeh - My answer would be "Yes". Assuming after IRI we have a constitution for a secular democracy. In fact I think Krabaschi makes a great president. Also - I like Libby and think his dog is well worth a thousand liberals who cluelessly swing with the flow - but unlike Libby Oldman is not an extremist. You seem to put them both in the same category. But then again that is what Liberal do best - I mean categorizing people.

 

[RoozbehAzadi]

Oldman-jan, let's say you campaign for 1 year in Iran while at the same time others campaign for other forms of government including Jomhuriyeh-Irani, and then after that 1 year time-frame the people vote with a majority voting for Republic over Constitutional Monarchy. And then in such a scenario, let's say somebody like Karbaschi who you're strongly against but who many people, including myself, may respect and like, wins against Reza Pahlavi and Ali Larijani in a Presidential election.

If such a scenario happens, and Karbaschi wins, would you accept this victory as a democratic one and the voice of the people?

I will personally say that if Constitutional Monarchy forms by vote of the people I'd accept this as the will of what Iranians want even though I personally would wish to move beyond monarchy and IRI towards a secular Republic with separation of religion and state.

But I guess I'm just wondering if you'd consider someone like Karbaschi a legitimate President if the people voted for him by a majority, even if he personally isn't someone you like? Thank you.

 

[Oldman]

Ba dorood:

nothing beats the vote of people in my book.

Is it clear?

BTW, I hope you go beyond viewing Constitutional Monarchy in the same level as something as backward as Islamic Rip-off!!!

 

[RoozbehAzadi]

Ba dorood:



Is it clear?

BTW, I hope you go beyond viewing Constitutional Monarchy in the same level as something as backward as Islamic Rip-off!!!

Oldman-jan, thank you and I appreciate your support of what people want. I don't personally view a Constitutional Monarchy as being equal to the IRI, but I think from my own point of view, that the time for that is in the past and we must now move beyond Monarchy and IRI as a whole and find something new. The time for constitutional monarchy was in the early 50s when Mossadegh became Prime Minister and he wanted the Shah to be a ceremonial figure like the Kings in Europe or the Emperor in Japan. Back then it would've worked, but I feel that Iran has moved beyond those days, and also beyond the days of the akhounds as we've seen recently with events in the last 6 months.

However I'm happy that we're in agreement that the vote of the people(in a free and fair manner of course, not the cheating of the Poop selection back in June) is the ultimate priority.

 

[Farzad-USA]

but the fact remains that there are serious allegations about him in USA court system - as he is now being claimed to be DIRECTLY attached to IRI.
QUOTE]

Massoud Jaan, you read what you just wrote. First, there is no case against Trita Paris but rather there is a case against the person who is spreading lies and defaming this guy. Second, let's say for the sake of argument, there is a case against Trita Parsi, do we have a verdict on this case, allegation does not equal guilty. I can say you murdered someone; does that make you a murderer? NO, unless you have been proven guilty in the court of law, the allegation is not a fact but rather a simple allegation.

 

[Oldman]

Ba dorood:

You are welcome and I wish for you to share your views with three of the top five most democratic governments in the world who exercise Constructional Monarchy.

Only New Zeeland and Finland are two countries with a democratic republic system ahead of Sweden, Denmark, and Netherlands. This is an old piece of information from 2004 but it says a lot and I personally like Spain's.

Look, I ask you to do something that I think would help first you and then your friends and loved ones.

I like for you to look into Iranian constitution under Late Shahnshah Aryamehr for what it is and we can continue more.

You see, aside from the monarch part of the constitution, it was one of the best in the world which really had base on constitution from French and Belgium.

In return, I share this with you that I believe that both a president and a king under a democratic system based on Human Rights Charter can help Iran and with the same token, both can hurt equally.

However, in my personal view a CM under Democratic System based on HRC would have a faster speed to optimized peace and prosperity for Iran and Iranians than a President under the same system. If under a president we reach it in 20 years, I would bet we can do it under 15 years with a Monarch like HIM Reza Pahlavi.

P.S.
I never viewed any kind of voting in Islamic Rip-off as a true voting even the sham referendum in 1979!!!

 

[masoudA]

Farzad Jaan -
Yes the case was initially brought up by Trita Parsi - but it has taken several twists. In this case - Daei Attorneys have asked for documents and records which NIAC has failed to produce - and the documents they have produced he asked the Court to keep private - and lost the plea.
In the court he has already aknowledged failure to register as a lobby which has already brought penalties against NIAC - but allegations of directly working for IRI - and having contacts with IRI (such as e-mails with Zarif) sre the more serious cases which as a result of this case would be brought up against him.

As you may know - several year ago right here on ISP - me, Oldman, and many others discussed these charges against Trita Tazi......In one of his so called congressional hearings he stopped just short of issuing threaths against America on our behalves...... right after AN had declared IRI has 20,000 "Operatives" in USA.

Good luck

 

[Farzad-USA]

Farzad Jaan -
Yes the case was initially brought up by Trita Parsi - but it has taken several twists. In this case - Daei Attorneys have asked for documents and records which NIAC has failed to produce - and the documents they have produced he asked the Court to keep private - and lost the plea.
In the court he has already aknowledged failure to register as a lobby which has already brought penalties against NIAC - but allegations of directly working for IRI - and having contacts with IRI (such as e-mails with Zarif) sre the more serious cases which as a result of this case would be brought up against him.

As you may know - several year ago right here on ISP - me, Oldman, and many others discussed these charges against Trita Tazi......In one of his so called congressional hearings he stopped just short of issuing threaths against America on our behalves...... right after AN had declared IRI has 20,000 "Operatives" in USA.

Good luck

Masoud Jaan, I suggest you read the whole case and then make a wise decision as what is going on in this case.

Here is the copy of the case:
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/images/091113_Protective_order_Oct_30.pdf

 

[masoudA]

Farzad - maghlateh nakon
What is your point - If you know something spill it - don't ask me to go read the whole case. Or are you just trying to look legit posting documents???

On what you cut an pasted - e-mails between Timmerman and Daei. What about it? what part of that you have a problem with. Trita was indeed a runer (weakest link - maening easy pray) for bigger catchs like Namazi and many more. Even I , as just an Iranian joe wanted this SOB to go down - let alone someone like Daei who has been researching him for years.

Again - please be specific - and thanks for the link, even if I don't someone will brows through it. For now I tend to other things and let the Court do it's job. As you may guess I as one am so pleased with this whole thing - it assured me justice always prevails.

 

[Farzad-USA]

Farzad - maghlateh nakon
What is your point - If you know something spill it - don't ask me to go read the whole case. Or are you just trying to look legit posting documents???

On what you cut an pasted - e-mails between Timmerman and Daei. What about it? what part of that you have a problem with. Trita was indeed a runer (weakest link - maening easy pray) for bigger catchs like Namazi and many more. Even I , as just an Iranian joe wanted this SOB to go down - let alone someone like Daei who has been researching him for years.

Again - please be specific - and thanks for the link, even if I don't someone will brows through it. For now I tend to other things and let the Court do it's job. As you may guess I as one am so pleased with this whole thing - it assured me justice always prevails.

Masoud, I posted the case for everyone to read and make his/her own conclusion. As I suspected, you are not looking for truth. My advice to you is to be careful; the neo-conservatives do not give a damn about Iran or Iranian. They are only looking for their own interest. If one day their interest is to attack Iran, they will not hesitate to do so. As I indicated before, this lawsuit was brought against Hassan Daioleslam by Trita Paris, and they are in the discovery phase, that is where both sides request documents from other side. Lastly, we live in the era of technology; if I was you before I make a conclusion about a subject I would do some research.

 

[masoudA]

More Generalizations...
Do you have any specific comments about the e-mail you posted? It seemed like you had a point of focus? do you?

 

[masoudA]

To Roozbeh
What if people vote for a Monarchy with RP as the King? would you have a problem with that? I bet you Karbaschi would have no problem running for the first Prime Minister under such new Monarchy.

 

[khodam]

More Generalizations...
Do you have any specific comments about the e-mail you posted? It seemed like you had a point of focus? do you?

Masoud,

I knew nothing of this case until now, but looking at this thread you keep accusing Farzad of maghlateh and generalizations. But so far he is the one who is providing evidence in support of what he says and you're the one who is doing maghlateh and evading logical discussion by tricks like name calling. What's the point of calling someone a traitor or Triat Tazi? Do you really think we can have a civilized discussion on monarchy if I keep calling Reza Pahlavi as nim-pahlavi? Sorry but these methods are tired. And the more you and Oldman keep pushing it the more ridiculous you look.

I have a first-hand experience on the "democracy" the likes of you and Oldman support. In 2005 I traveled to LA to vote in presidential election in a voting station. Your friends, supporters of democratic constitutional monarchy, managed to threat those who wanted to vote and make enough noise for the police to deem the situation dangerous and close down the poll. I eventually managed to vote but many didn't. That is simply the view of democracy that is also evident in this thread. The Fox News view of democracy. If you're not with us, I'll make dirt out of you because you're a traitor or Tazi. You're free to express your opinion in support of HIM RP otherwise you're a traitor and not worth the soil you walk on. I'm sorry but in my book, those monarchists who didn't let people vote are just the same as IRI.

 

[masoudA]

But so far he is the one who is providing evidence in support of what he says

Dear Khodam - Can you tell me exactly what part of his argument is being supported by the e-mails he posted? You can't and You won't. No wonder Iranians are fooled so easy...... Please be specific.

As for me - I have been calling Trita Parsi a charlatan, a traitor and an IRI lobby for years - based on how he pretends to represent us Iranian/Americans, how he misrepresents what people inside Iran want, and how he lobbies for IRI interests. The day he filed the lawsuit, I considered it an opportunity to get him and I could not be more delighted on how and where things are going. As I said - I will leave it up to the US courts.

 

[Farzad-USA]

Dear Khodam - Can you tell me exactly what part of his argument is being supported by the e-mails he posted? You can't and You won't. No wonder Iranians are fooled so easy...... Please be specific.

As for me - I have been calling Trita Parsi a charlatan, a traitor and an IRI lobby for years - based on how he pretends to represent us Iranian/Americans, how he misrepresents what people inside Iran want, and how he lobbies for IRI interests. The day he filed the lawsuit, I considered it an opportunity to get him and I could not be more delighted on how and where things are going. As I said - I will leave it up to the US courts.

Agha Masoud,first of all, I provided the copy of the case so everyone can see it. Second, the e-mail in which I provided to you shows the neo-conservatives do not care about anyone and anything except their own interest. In this email, they considered Trita Paris a weakest part of Iranian web so by attacking him and destroying him, they wanted to attack Clinton and Obama. Again as you can see, they could not argue the real issues that were facing the nation so they wanted to accuse both candidates of having a tie with NIAC. Thank God, they have FAILED so far. Also, you said, the case is going very well; please delight me as how the case is going very well. Finally, as I said before, you can disagree with some of NIAC's position in regards to Iran but you cannot just call the group and a person of being agent of IRI because you disagree with them.

 

[khodam]

Dear Khodam - Can you tell me exactly what part of his argument is being supported by the e-mails he posted? You can't and You won't. No wonder Iranians are fooled so easy...... Please be specific.

The part that they have gone after him for other motives. Did you chose to ignore that? He is suggesting (not proving though) that they are going after Trita Parsi as a weak link to get to Namazee and through that to Biden and Obama. Maybe that's a fair cause for you and your Fox friends but not for me.

And you keep saying that you've been calling Trita Prasi a traitor for year as if that makes it any more convincing! You're still just calling names without any evidence behind what you say. You're just calling him names more emphatically!

 

[Oldman]

Ba dorood:

I have a first-hand experience on the "democracy" the likes of you and Oldman support. In 2005 I traveled to LA to vote in presidential election in a voting station.

Wow, Taa Mard Sokhan Nagofteh Baashad, Eyb o Honarash Nahofteh Baashad.

I know that as an older person than Khodam, I should not go at the young person as I have above but when I read this statement about experiencing "DEMOCRACY" by voting in Islamic Rip-off's ELECSHOW, I just had to be harsh!!!

In any case, let me clear why I exercise such writings as Rasmanjaani, Traitor Taazi, and etc.,

These people have proven record as their names are modified to reflect it.

1- Islamic Rip-off- Isn't it an insult to any republic to be in same catagory as this one, the Islamic Version? In addition, have you not experienced Iran and Iranians being Ripped off by this system?

2- RasmanJaani - He was praised in Islamic Majlis as the man who provided the gun for Killing Razmaaraa. He is proud of this record, isn't he RASMAN JAANI?

3- Traitor Parsi - I think that you get my trend by now adn am sure you have figured out this.

4- Do you really disagree with Velaayat VAGHEEH? Isn't it the true and fitting name without any MASKHAREGY?

BTW, HIM Reza Pahavi has been called ROB-PAHLAVI not NIM-PAHLAVI!!!

Is there any useful information in that name, ROB-PAHLAVI? If so then it is just Kootah-Nazari and just MASKHARAEGI.

I hope the differences are a bit clearer.

Nevertheless, I wish not hurt or insult anyone but those whom I use their names as such. I have the right t oexercise my frustration, right?