Debt Ceiling issue

Mahdi

Elite Member
Jan 1, 1970
6,999
497
Mjunik
#81
that's my man..

http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/

8/01/2011



Random Observations Regarding the Debt Deal (Which May or May Not Become Law):
1. Refusal to isolate Republicans has become a kind of mania, a self-immolating sickness for President Obama. Every now and then, he'll slip up and blame Republicans for their intransigence. But then that's generally undermined by his saying that Democrats need to give up on their sacred cows (like, you know, Medicare and Social Security, which seem more like life-giving dairy cows). Last night, announcing a deal with Republicans on raising the debt ceiling, Obama said it will "end the crisis that Washington imposed on the rest of America."

That one line is so goddamned aggravating. First off, it wasn't "Washington." Most of the people who run "Washington" wanted a clean debt ceiling vote. It was House Republicans, especially, but not exclusively, the teabaggers. They are the ones who brought the nation to a crisis. It's like saying that you need to burn down your home because you've got mice. No, you get mad at the mice for dropping turds and then you trap those fuckers.

The other thing about that line is that it buys into Republican rhetoric that government is the problem. By not calling out Republicans for their bullshit, Obama is, in fact, being even more Reaganesque: "Hey, we're just a bunch of assholes here. Sorry for stressing you out." Washington is not hurting us. It will when it takes a shitload of money out of the economy and ends stimulus spending. But not right now.

2. Here's what Obama said at his July 15 press conference: "But if you’re trying to get to $2.4 trillion without any revenue, then you are effectively gutting a whole bunch of domestic spending that is going to be too burdensome and is not going to be something that I would support."

At his July 11 press conference, he said, "I do not want, and I will not accept, a deal in which I am asked to do nothing, in fact, I’m able to keep hundreds of thousands of dollars in additional income that I don’t need, while a parent out there who is struggling to figure out how to send their kid to college suddenly finds that they’ve got a couple thousand dollars less in grants or student loans."

But he is accepting and supporting this deal, which doesn't do a thing to increase revenue. Instead, the White House put out this statement regarding a failure for the proposed Super Congress to reach a deal on future spending cuts and revenue, which would trigger a sequestering of spending: "The Bush tax cuts expire as of 1/1/2013, the same date that the spending sequester would go into effect. These two events together will force balanced deficit reduction. Absent a balanced deal, it would enable the President to use his veto pen to ensure nearly $1 trillion in additional deficit reduction by not extending the high-income tax cuts."

You get that? The White House is saying that Obama has a bottom line or he'll veto it. And that he'll allow the Bush tax cuts on the wealthy expire. Like he did last time. Oh, wait...

Why the fuck should we believe him? First off, he'd have to get the tax cuts on the wealthy decoupled from the larger tax cuts, which won't happen. (And the Rude Pundit believes that all the tax cuts should expire.) And, mostly, he just fucking spent weeks telling us that he wouldn't accept a deal without revenue increases, and then did the opposite. If you don't wanna get fucked in the ass and the dude you're fucking keeps saying, "Don't worry, I'm not gonna fuck your ass" and then he fucks your ass on three different occasions, are you gonna believe him when he says, "No, really, this time I'm not gonna fuck your ass"? (Note: We're all gonna have sore assholes when this is over.)

3. Advice to the mass circle-jerk of punditry: you can't predict what is going to happen if this passes and that bipartisan committee goes to work. Shit changes, radically, and don't be shocked if Social Security and Medicare are on the table. And, yes, there are people on the right who hate this deal, but that's because they're the fucking insanitoids who got us into this mud pit to begin with.

4. And the Rude Pundit calls "Bullshit" on anyone who says that Obama had his hand forced. He did what he has always done: taken the toughest negotiating tool off the table. He did it when he took a national health care system out of the debate. He did it again here when he said that he wasn't considering the 14th Amendment option. Imagine if that had been hanging over the negotiations: you guys can go fuck yourselves if you don't bargain fairly.

Would it have forced a constitutional crisis? Who knows. We're sure as fuck in a crisis now, having our country run by a small cabal of people who hate the very entity they work for. It's like having a company that makes Magic Sex Machines but you hire someone who hates sex, machines, and magic to help you market it.

5. So let's not forget: these are crazy people. Right now, they're gathering in a cave under the Capitol, smearing themselves with each other's shit and casting chicken bones on the ground to decide how they should vote. But, hell, it's as good a way to run a country as we've got now.

6. One thing the Rude Pundit can't get his mind around is that the wars continue. Aren't they the vestiges of a fallen empire, attempting to remain relevant in a world that wants to move on? That we prefer war to roads and health care and education here is unfathomably depressing.
 

Behrooz_C

Elite Member
Dec 10, 2005
16,650
1,566
A small island west of Africa
#82
So basically what is going to happen after the agreement is that the rich get richer while the poor get poorer and screwed even more.

But hey, so long as tea baggers are satisfied that their country will not become an evil social state like Sweden then everything is fine.
 
Jun 7, 2004
3,196
0
#83
Another opportunity passed up. The issue is not addressed yet again and postponed to a later date. I am afraid this time the hand of both parties and the American people will be forced much sooner than any of them think and the solution imposed will be much harsher that if the US had acted earlier.

The real issue is that Medicare, Medicaid, SS and defense/war must be cut substantially and taxes must be reformed and raised. Most important of the above is Medicare and medicaid. And the real issue there is healthcare cost. Healthcare cost must be slashed one way or another. Healthcare cost is bringing the US to its knees and it is the healthcare lobby that is behind it at the expense of the entire nation.

The original Obama/Boehner plan did have provision to slightly address the real problem above, but even that did not make it. So the structural issues are not addressed yet again.
 
Feb 22, 2005
6,884
9
#84
Fole, sometimes it is just not possible as the structures that has formed through lobbyists, corporates having direct control over congress senate and whitehouse, and a large percentage of uninformed people who can easily be controlled and are not looking to find the answers themselves, a media that is controlled by the corporations, that you get a system that is just hard to move and make the changes. One can imagine thus happened to other empires whether it was Persians, Romans, Greeks, etc.. A bubble gets created that is hard to do anything inside until it bursts.

Perhaps, America will end up going through revolutions in the future when it ends moving down to 5th place or so, and a small group holding all the money and power.

After all, you can fool the people as much as you want and they will buy it as long as possible, but if they start to go hungry day after day and become homeless, then it does not matter how many times you tell them all is perfect and we are on top of it as they will start becoming alert and harder to brainwash.

Another opportunity passed up. The issue is not addressed yet again and postponed to a later date. I am afraid this time the hand of both parties and the American people will be forced much sooner than any of them think and the solution imposed will be much harsher that if the US had acted earlier.

The real issue is that Medicare, Medicaid, SS and defense/war must be cut substantially and taxes must be reformed and raised. Most important of the above is Medicare and medicaid. And the real issue there is healthcare cost. Healthcare cost must be slashed one way or another. Healthcare cost is bringing the US to its knees and it is the healthcare lobby that is behind it at the expense of the entire nation.

The original Obama/Boehner plan did have provision to slightly address the real problem above, but even that did not make it. So the structural issues are not addressed yet again.
 

beystr 2.0

Bench Warmer
Jul 9, 2006
1,983
0
#85
I think..Rush Limbough said it most honestly, I believe , yrs ago on this subject and that was sometimes in mid 90's where the debt was about 4 trillion or so..he said.."This debt will never be paid back"...and IMO he's right on..think about it..how long U.S. can pay somewhere around 350 billion dollars a yr just for the interest payments...forget the principal...and IMO..its the most important duty for the rest of the world to plan for it...otherwise..if it comes as a some sort of a surprise..it'll be armagedon..but then again..aren't we all shiats working toward that anyhow.?.lol
 
Feb 22, 2005
6,884
9
#86
Rush Limbough is one damn Idiot. Was he not the biggest supporter of Bush who won the election wanting to take the Clinton surplus and give it back as tax cuts? Gore wanted to pay the deb with it as did Clinton but seeing how the public went crazy over getting peanuts back in returns (while the very wealthy got the big piece, I think city bank CEO got 6 million back, every day joe got $600) ran on the campaign to give half back and half in taxes.

So, no, Limbough is dead wrong. FDR, a thomas jefferson, or a JFK would have not taken the country down like Bush did and we would have probably ended up having more surpluses.

I think..Rush Limbough said it most honestly, I believe , yrs ago on this subject and that was sometimes in mid 90's where the debt was about 4 trillion or so..he said.."This debt will never be paid back"...and IMO he's right on..think about it..how long U.S. can pay somewhere around 350 billion dollars a yr just for the interest payments...forget the principal...and IMO..its the most important duty for the rest of the world to plan for it...otherwise..if it comes as a some sort of a surprise..it'll be armagedon..but then again..aren't we all shiats working toward that anyhow.?.lol
 

Niloufar

Football Legend
Oct 19, 2002
29,626
23
#87
Another opportunity passed up. The issue is not addressed yet again and postponed to a later date. I am afraid this time the hand of both parties and the American people will be forced much sooner than any of them think and the solution imposed will be much harsher that if the US had acted earlier.

The real issue is that Medicare, Medicaid, SS and defense/war must be cut substantially and taxes must be reformed and raised. Most important of the above is Medicare and medicaid. And the real issue there is healthcare cost. Healthcare cost must be slashed one way or another. Healthcare cost is bringing the US to its knees and it is the healthcare lobby that is behind it at the expense of the entire nation.

The original Obama/Boehner plan did have provision to slightly address the real problem above, but even that did not make it. So the structural issues are not addressed yet again.
great points Fatso jan..but try to do that against heavy Insurance companies' lobbies at U.S Congress. its almost impossible.

The problem, I think, still lies on USA's structural political problem that "Private sector and corporations" hold the key power for high-level decision-making, not U.S President, not CIA,not any other officials. And any President or official who is brave enough to oppose that or change this norm, will be the first to go down..just like Kennedy.
 

Niloufar

Football Legend
Oct 19, 2002
29,626
23
#88
great article by Economist on this agreement:

The debt ceiling deal

Nuts and bolts


Economist-

ON SATURDAY July 30th, with a potential federal default just three days away, Mitch McConnell, the Republican leader in the Senate, went before the press to declare, “We now have a level of seriousness with the right people at the table.” Approximately a day later, Republicans struck a deal with Democrats in Congress and President Barack Obama to raise the statutory ceiling on the federal debt and avoid a default that would have sent shockwaves through the global economy.


If it really took this long for the leaders to get serious, then it’s hard not to conclude that the preceding months of partisan rhetoric, competing proposals and brinkmanship were an elaborate kabuki to appease the parties’ respective bases, that would then give way to sensible bargaining. Indeed, the final deal looks remarkably similar to what knowledgeable insiders had long ago predicted would emerge. There was no grand bargain combining cuts to entitlements such as Medicare and Social Security with revenue-raising tax reform as America so desperately needs (though there were also no draconian and immediate cuts to spending as many tea-party warriors wanted).
Rather, the result is a mishmash of expedient stop gaps and promises that tilts heavily to Republican priorities while guaranteeing more wrangling and uncertainty in the months ahead. It does nothing to support the near-term economic outlook, and makes less progress on long-term fiscal consolidation than hoped.
Its key provisions are $917 billion in deficit reduction over the next decade (the precise timing is unclear), drawn mostly from domestic discretionary outlays. (Discretionary items must be approved annually by Congress. Entitlements, also called mandatory spending, proceed on autopilot unless the law changes.) In return, the debt ceiling rises immediately by $400 billion, about enough borrowing room for the Treasury to fund current spending until September. Then, it would rise another $500 billion unless both the House and Senate were to vote by super-majorities against doing so, which is highly unlikely.


Then comes the tricky part. The debt ceiling will rise by another $1.2 trillion to $1.5 trillion by December 23rd, enough to tide Treasury over until after next autumn’s presidential election, a priority for Mr Obama. However, that requires one of two things to happen. A committee of 12 legislators composed equally from both parties and both chambers is to agree on $1.5 trillion of deficit cuts. Congress could then accept or reject but not amend the proposals by December 23rd. Approval would result in the debt ceiling rising by $1.5 trillion. If the committee fails to come up with at least $1.2 trillion in cuts or their proposal is rejected, spending would be automatically cut by enough to bring total cuts to $1.2 trillion, coming equally from defence and domestic outlays. The triggers would take effect in 2013, and result in a debt ceiling increase of $1.2 trillion. Payments to Medicare providers could be trimmed but Medicare, Social Security and Medicaid benefits would all be shielded. The thinking is that these cuts would inflict such pain on both Republican and Democratic pet priorities that they will labour mightily to come up with an alternative.


It is not a done deal. Passage in the Senate seems likely if only because its main elements were hammered out between Mr McConnell and Harry Reid, the Democratic majority leader. The House is trickier: conservative Republicans have defied their own leadership in the past on budget deals that did not meet their extreme demands, one of which has been a balanced budget amendment to the constitution. The deal, which could still change, does promise a vote in both chambers on such an amendment. However, the deal will not be nullified if the amendment is defeated as it almost certainly will be. (Amending the constitution is hard, requiring agreement by super majorities of both chambers and three-quarters of the states, an almost impossible hurdle for such a controversial idea.) Thus, John Boehner, the Republican speaker of the House, will almost certainly need a contingent of Democrats to get the deal approved, and many of those Democrats are angry that the deal does not raise taxes. Update: The deal has been approved by the House and Senate and signed by the president.

In fact, the absence of any tax increases makes it clear that this deal, whatever the misgivings of some in the tea party, is a Republican victory. This is the third time since last autumn’s midterm elections that Republicans have succeeded in pushing Mr Obama to the brink and extracting a deal more favourable to them than to him: first, the two-year extension of all the Bush tax cuts last December weeks before they were due to expire; then steep cuts to this year’s budget just as the government was on the verge of shutting down in April; now this deal. It is true that the congressional committee could propose both spending cuts and tax increases. That is clearly the hope of Mr Obama who said, in endorsing it on July 31st, “I’ll continue to make a detailed case to these lawmakers about why I believe a balanced approach is necessary to finish the job.”
But if the committee deadlocks or their proposal is defeated, the default option of sweeping spending cuts is more painful to Democrats than to Republicans, who generally consider defence cuts a lesser evil than higher taxes. Mr Obama has one card left up his sleeve: he plans to campaign for re-election on a commitment to ensuring the rich pay more taxes when Mr Bush’s tax cuts expire at the end of 2012. Such a move would raises taxes not just on the rich, the constituency Mr Obama wants to bear most of the burden, but also the middle class whom he has promised to protect.


If Republicans are the clear winner from this deal, the economy is the loser. An ideal deficit-reduction package would have coupled near-term stimulus with long-term consolidation that stabilised then reduced the debt as a share of GDP. This deal certainly doesn’t do the first and it’s unclear that it will do the second. True, it does not add significant new fiscal tightening: total discretionary spending would be a mere $7 billion lower in fiscal 2012 and $3 billion in fiscal 2013 than current levels, according to a Democratic Senate fact sheet. On the other hand fiscal policy is already set to tighten automatically. Mr Obama had hoped to extend the payroll tax cut as part of the deal. He may yet do so during the Congressional negotiations, but that seems a fading prospect. It is striking that last Friday’s appallingly weak GDP data did nothing to shape the deal any further in the direction of near-term stimulus.


As for long-term fiscal consolidation, the deal also falls short. Total deficit reduction of $2.4 trillion is less than the $4 trillion that bipartisan groups and political leaders had more or less agreed was necessary to put the debt on a meaningful downward path relative to GDP. It’s also the number Standard & Poor’s, a credit rating agency, had suggested was necessary for America to avoid a downgrade to its AAA credit rating. And it’s worth noting that now that GDP has been revised to be smaller than we’d realised, debt is larger as a share of GDP.


In the end, hopes for a grand bargain that addressed entitlements, taxes and near-term economic support ran aground on the harsh reality that all these things would require bridging profound philosophical differences that have developed over decades. The odds that the next few months will yield a different outcome seem low: further brinkmanship (albeit of a less terrifying sort than seen in the past weeks) is more likely. That has become the routine way that fiscal policy gets made in America. True, stockmarkets rallied with relief that the most reckless path has been avoided. Meeting such a low standard should hardly be considered a vote of confidence in America’s fundamental fiscal and political maturity.
 

Niloufar

Football Legend
Oct 19, 2002
29,626
23
#89
wow..here we go with credit rating downgrade..its actually quite well-deserved..

Chinese rating agency cuts U.S. debt again
Move unlikely to affect markets, even in Hong Kong


LOS ANGELES (MarketWatch) — Chinese credit-rating agency Dagong Global Credit Rating Co. on Wednesday again downgraded U.S. sovereign debt and warned of further such moves, the state-run Xinhua news agency reported, though the action was unlikely to affect markets.

Dagong cut U.S. Treasurys to A from A+, with a negative outlook, saying growth in U.S. debt is still outpacing revenue growth.

The latest move followed a Dagong downgrade of U.S. debt from AA to A+ in November, citing the launch of the Federal Reserve’s second round of quantitative easing.

“The agency said the approval to raise the debt ceiling indicated that there will not be any positive changes in factors that will influence the country’s debt-paying ability in the long run,” Xinhua reported.

However, the move was unlikely to impact markets, even in the Chinese financial hub of Hong Kong, given the lack of reaction to past Dagong ratings actions.

“At this stage, [Dagong ratings are] not widely a focus of concern,” said Conita Hung, head of equity markets for Delta Asia Financial Markets in Hong Kong. “I don’t think it will have a major impact on markets.”

She said that in any event, the flailing economic recovery in the U.S. and Europe are generally of more concern to Chinese markets than are the credit ratings. Read more on Chinese reactions to U.S. credit ratings.

An Agence France-Presse report noted that Dagong’s chairman is also a paid adviser to China’s government, though the firm insists it is fully independent.

The news came the same day as a Xinhua editorial said the U.S. had failed to defuse its “debt bomb.”
 
Feb 22, 2005
6,884
9
#90
“The agency said the approval to raise the debt ceiling indicated that there will not be any positive changes in factors that will influence the country’s debt-paying ability in the long run,” reported.

Try to tell this to republicans and Dahati fat Tea party people. The tea party people dont have a brain so cant blame them, and for republicans their hatred of Obama is more than their love for America. They will bring down this country if they have to, to see Obama loose.




wow..here we go with credit rating downgrade..its actually quite well-deserved..

Chinese rating agency cuts U.S. debt again
Move unlikely to affect markets, even in Hong Kong


LOS ANGELES (MarketWatch) — Chinese credit-rating agency Dagong Global Credit Rating Co. on Wednesday again downgraded U.S. sovereign debt and warned of further such moves, the state-run Xinhua news agency reported, though the action was unlikely to affect markets.

Dagong cut U.S. Treasurys to A from A+, with a negative outlook, saying growth in U.S. debt is still outpacing revenue growth.

The latest move followed a Dagong downgrade of U.S. debt from AA to A+ in November, citing the launch of the Federal Reserve’s second round of quantitative easing.

“The agency said the approval to raise the debt ceiling indicated that there will not be any positive changes in factors that will influence the country’s debt-paying ability in the long run,” reported.

However, the move was unlikely to impact markets, even in the Chinese financial hub of Hong Kong, given the lack of reaction to past Dagong ratings actions.

“At this stage, [Dagong ratings are] not widely a focus of concern,” said Conita Hung, head of equity markets for Delta Asia Financial Markets in Hong Kong. “I don’t think it will have a major impact on markets.”

She said that in any event, the flailing economic recovery in the U.S. and Europe are generally of more concern to Chinese markets than are the credit ratings. Read more on Chinese reactions to U.S. credit ratings.

An Agence France-Presse report noted that Dagong’s chairman is also a paid adviser to China’s government, though the firm insists it is fully independent.

The news came the same day as a Xinhua editorial said the U.S. had failed to defuse its “debt bomb.”
 

Mahdi

Elite Member
Jan 1, 1970
6,999
497
Mjunik
#91
wow..here we go with credit rating downgrade..its actually quite well-deserved..

Chinese rating agency cuts U.S. debt again
Move unlikely to affect markets, even in Hong Kong
No one gives a damn about rating agencies(well...I'm exaggerating but really, you need to sit down at a conference held by one of them to know how much bullshit they are about) but no one really gives a flying f about this chinese rating agency. Once S&P or Moody downgrade, we can talk. This chinese thing..who cares? It has no credibility whatsoever.
 
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Mahdi

Elite Member
Jan 1, 1970
6,999
497
Mjunik
#92
Could anyone in the US help me out on this a bit?

I realize it's not everyone's problem etc. and so on..but..

From my salary in Austria about 43% is taken away by the government for taxes, social security, medicare etc...I pay another 800Euros for rent, but I don't need a car, pay 40 euros a month for unlimited public transport etc. Just as everywhere else you have tax breaks too but let's leave them out..

I know from my relatives in US that while they earn more net due to less taxes, they remain with almost the same due to paying more for rent, car, college loans etc.

Question: How would a general raise in taxes under various models affect you and isn't there a general revamp of the system and the tax system needed to make any change workable?

I mean, you end in Europe with higher taxes but I have 0 college debt and had it all for free. I guess it would be good to end with Bush tax cuts and generally raise the revenue streams, but that would require a major overhaul of the whole system too(though Bush cuts wouldn't require that but other tax codes).
 

raminio05

National Team Player
#93
Mahdi a tax increase wouldn't directly affect me but it would affect my father who is a small business owner. At this point in the game, a tax increase could prove to be too much, and other small business owners that I have spoken to agree. Wouldn't have minded it 5 years ago, but now it could be the straw that breaks the camels back for many people.

And as far as schooling goes, those who have parents with good incomes are the ones with college debt, and that mostly because their parents refuse to pay or they refuse to let their parents pay. The real college debt in this country is for those students who go on to grad school or med school or etc. Those who can't afford college get at least enough financial aid to cover tuition costs. On top of that they get subsidized loans with 6 month post graduation grace periods at low (until this year) fixed interest rate for life expenses. And then theres all kinds of scholarships on top of that to help ease the load.

And you probably know this yourself, great public transport in some areas of the U.S is just not practical. Everythings too spread out.
 

Mahdi

Elite Member
Jan 1, 1970
6,999
497
Mjunik
#94
Mahdi a tax increase wouldn't directly affect me but it would affect my father who is a small business owner. At this point in the game, a tax increase could prove to be too much, and other small business owners that I have spoken to agree. Wouldn't have minded it 5 years ago, but now it could be the straw that breaks the camels back for many people.

And as far as schooling goes, those who have parents with good incomes are the ones with college debt, and that mostly because their parents refuse to pay or they refuse to let their parents pay. The real college debt in this country is for those students who go on to grad school or med school or etc. Those who can't afford college get at least enough financial aid to cover tuition costs. On top of that they get subsidized loans with 6 month post graduation grace periods at low (until this year) fixed interest rate for life expenses. And then theres all kinds of scholarships on top of that to help ease the load.

And you probably know this yourself, great public transport in some areas of the U.S is just not practical. Everythings too spread out.
Thanks for the info! I have read a lot about how biking lanes and such have improved in the US and lots of people choose bikes(my uncle as an example in Irvine is now cycling every day to work) but I guess that's not really applyable everywhere.

I see your point on college debts and tax hikes.
Add to the debt issue that lots of people study stuff that won't necessarily make them lots of money(though I have no problem with studying something that makes no money, I believe you study for life not for anything else..to each his own) and the current job market and I guess the debt on youth will become an even bigger issue.
I really think that whoever is in office should have and will need and etc. change a whole lot about the future generation. I mean, from what it seems to me, you are just always in debt in your adult life, which again, to me it's not that much of an issue as long as you can pay it back, but it's not necessarily a sustaineable lifestyle for everyone and it becomes a big deal once you can't pay it back.
 

masoudA

Legionnaire
Oct 16, 2008
6,199
22
#96
lool - good to see some of you waking up -
but you boyz still missing the Forrest - you only looking at trees.
What is the total USA debt? How much was it in 2006? put those two numbers and then you will see the Forrst!!!
 

masoudA

Legionnaire
Oct 16, 2008
6,199
22
#97
I posted the following thought here on ISP - couple of years ago.......obviously did not make a dent!! lol
So here it is again - and this is only for those of you (most of you) who have your individualism left - but are under extreme media bombardment giving you what to think about and how !!! LOL AGAIN.

USA economy is "Construction" driven......has been for a long time. Majority of Jobs here (and just about everywhere else for that matter) are construction related.......... Uncle Sam built and and built, and over-built to a point that we have some 30%-40% excessive supply. Get that? We are going through the period that many behind the scenes - especially the investors and bankers - are just sitting aside and waiting for the market to adjust itself. Meanwhile we hear NOTHING from the White House, Congress, Senate, Media,.....on what America needs to do when "Construction" is on hold!!!? Not a thing. No clue on how to create jobs in what industry....... Just irrelevant rhetorics such as the BS most of you seem to have been hooked on. Yep - keep thinking about Uncle Sam's "Credit Ratings"....lol

Meanwhile...
The Royals in Europe have always wanted a "hurt" and struggling America - an America which must only be strong enough to act as their military arm when they need it!!! The problem is Fort America, was able to establish a system which created an eagle that flew waaaaaaay over anything Europe is and ever wanted to be - in just about all aspects - especially in science. This very science, eventualy created a great way of life with extensive leisures in America - something that eventualy emerged as what seemed to be a "Runaway Train" which consumed resouces and produced waste beyond control. So what to do with the runaway train is the question? The train has stopped and is eating from pocket!! It will do the right thing and will create non-construction jobs........Just know wherever the ultimate answer comes from - it certainly is not from the minds of the Royals in Northern Europe, which are still stuck in Colonialism and all the dirt that comes with it.
 
Feb 22, 2005
6,884
9
#98
Where the hell do you guys get this sort of crap? I have many American friends who came from poor families and they are up to their necks in college loans. You make it sound like if you are poor college is free. This is misinformation and not true.

I love how people always make the poor getting everything. If that is the case why dont they just give us everything and become poor. You make poor in America sound like the best thing. They are always getting free everything. It is far from that.


Mahdi a tax increase wouldn't directly affect me but it would affect my father who is a small business owner. At this point in the game, a tax increase could prove to be too much, and other small business owners that I have spoken to agree. Wouldn't have minded it 5 years ago, but now it could be the straw that breaks the camels back for many people. Misinformation.

And as far as schooling goes, those who have parents with good incomes are the ones with college debt, and that mostly because their parents refuse to pay or they refuse to let their parents pay. The real college debt in this country is for those students who go on to grad school or med school or etc. Those who can't afford college get at least enough financial aid to cover tuition costs. On top of that they get subsidized loans with 6 month post graduation grace periods at low (until this year) fixed interest rate for life expenses. And then theres all kinds of scholarships on top of that to help ease the load.

And you probably know this yourself, great public transport in some areas of the U.S is just not practical. Everythings too spread out.
 
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Feb 22, 2005
6,884
9
#99
Wow, you should run for president. You really explained so well the problem with America.

So, shipping all the industry to overseas so the executives can make more money, Since Reagan, cutting away money from education so people can have access to education (and thus creating the problematic student loans), taking away all deregulations, and the lobbying that sees certain industries dominate and therefore disable a functioning US government that invest in new industries (for example no fast trains, because of lobbying by auto and oil companies) are not any of the causes.

I posted the following thought here on ISP - couple of years ago.......obviously did not make a dent!! lol
So here it is again - and this is only for those of you (most of you) who have your individualism left - but are under extreme media bombardment giving you what to think about and how !!! LOL AGAIN.

USA economy is "Construction" driven......has been for a long time. Majority of Jobs here (and just about everywhere else for that matter) are construction related.......... Uncle Sam built and and built, and over-built to a point that we have some 30%-40% excessive supply. Get that? We are going through the period that many behind the scenes - especially the investors and bankers - are just sitting aside and waiting for the market to adjust itself. Meanwhile we hear NOTHING from the White House, Congress, Senate, Media,.....on what America needs to do when "Construction" is on hold!!!? Not a thing. No clue on how to create jobs in what industry....... Just irrelevant rhetorics such as the BS most of you seem to have been hooked on. Yep - keep thinking about Uncle Sam's "Credit Ratings"....lol

Meanwhile...
The Royals in Europe have always wanted a "hurt" and struggling America - an America which must only be strong enough to act as their military arm when they need it!!! The problem is Fort America, was able to establish a system which created an eagle that flew waaaaaaay over anything Europe is and ever wanted to be - in just about all aspects - especially in science. This very science, eventualy created a great way of life with extensive leisures in America - something that eventualy emerged as what seemed to be a "Runaway Train" which consumed resouces and produced waste beyond control. So what to do with the runaway train is the question? The train has stopped and is eating from pocket!! It will do the right thing and will create non-construction jobs........Just know wherever the ultimate answer comes from - it certainly is not from the minds of the Royals in Northern Europe, which are still stuck in Colonialism and all the dirt that comes with it.