Debt Ceiling issue

masoudA

Legionnaire
Oct 16, 2008
6,199
22
Pedar jaan - as I said: US Economy is Construction based. Does that mean other industries are unimportant? no. But when Construction is halted...you get what you can see....
What's up with the wisecracks? you wish to be president? I am fine where I am.
 

InDaMoneyz

IPL Player
Mar 13, 2007
2,966
0
Pedar jaan - as I said: US Economy is Construction based. Does that mean other industries are unimportant? no. But when Construction is halted...you get what you can see....
What's up with the wisecracks? you wish to be president? I am fine where I am.
dude your stuff around the Europe - US relationship is very 1984! such dynamic/sentiments to such degree no longer exists. If anything europeans are probably more concerned with germany and china than 'uncle sam'! not to mention their ever growing identity crisis and sociopolitical issues with muslims/minorities, decreasing populations and etc they are trying to deal with.

With regards to construction - most economies are construction based and majority of stimulus packages are directed to construction projects as construction and housing are a a major if not the lifeline of economic activity.

In case of US, I dont think people realize just how much equity and even cash US is sitting on - more than half of the world's total! so the real problem really is trying to get personal and commercial entities to pump these funds back into the economy somehow. In fact even a 10 trill. Dollar debt would not be a problem once this starts. Due to housing market problems and financial downturns the new focus should be on new industries through innovation. In transportation to technology to even agriculture and mining! After all this is what US is best at.

Just a recent stat to shed some light, as of jan 2011, 48million Americans have networths of at least over a million dollars! including some 8.5 million households that are millionairs not considering equity they have on their primary residence! this is an incredible stat of wealth I just saw on one our financial reports.
 

Chinaski

Elite Member
Jun 14, 2005
12,269
352
Do not worry about america and its debts and in this regard IDM is absolutely right. I just want to highlight another important aspect of american economy which is ironically connected to military. Back in ths 30s Bertrand Russell once told us how the capitalistic world functions: Its more or less the same old darwinistic world inwhich the strong eliminate the weak. We only do it with manners, negotiations, we wear koto shalvaaro kraawaat. The core of the thing is still the same. America will not go down. Europe will have more problems to survive because they are farther away from Darwins principals than the americans. The Americans, due to their wild and militaristic history know how to survive and they instinctively do the right thing to survive which is to eliminate whatever and whoever that could threaten their survival. As simple as this. Europeans throughout the years have developed alot of things that they call culture and evolution but at the same time these stuff are bothering them, they are like choob laaye charkh, they even know it and cant change anything about it. They know islamism is a threat to them but they allow known islamists to built new mosques because they think they should give a new chance to everyone. They know they have to start matching the americans military wise (and they absolutely have the knowledge to do it) but the pacifistic view has somehow taken over alot of brains in european parliaments. They wait until they get shot before they act but you simply cant act after your shot. Americans are different. Inaa shookhi nadaaran vaghti harf sare manaafeshoon mishe. They are ready to shit on everything the european call culture and human right bullshit ...well, just to survive. Unlike europeans the americans are able to act fast and agressive and this has been the key and their only advantage since 60 years. They wouldnt hesitate to even the change the whole world order to get out of debts, they wouldnt change to invade countries to impose their will. Dont worry about America, they will find a way to survive, worry about europe and the rest of the world.
 

Mehran(ISP)

<b>Administrator</b>
Oct 16, 2002
3,404
0
MD, USA
Pedar jaan - as I said: US Economy is Construction based. Does that mean other industries are unimportant? no. But when Construction is halted...you get what you can see....
Absolutely, 100% wrong. U.S is a service based economy because of people’s wealth. Service meaning financial advisors, barber shops, electrician, plumbing, etc..., when people don't have enough money they cut out the un-necessary costs which always cuts out the service industry first. All combined, the service industry is a want and not a need, you want a financial advisor to help you, you want a plumber to do your work because you don't want to do it yourself. Manufacturing, agriculture, and all others are a Need. You need food, water, & secure shelter.

Please see the chart below to see how small of the U.S workforce is construction based. It does not even make a dent in the labor force.

http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_table_201.htm

The problem if U.S economy is that it's a credit based economy based on borrowing money and creating money out of nowhere. I give you an example, when Mr. Masoud A deposits $1,000 in his checking account; the bank is only required to keep 10% in its reserves. The bank is allowed to use the other 90% to borrow on margin ten times that amount from the Federal Reserve. So your $1,000 turns into $9,000 that now bank has can borrow and lend to customer B. Customer B deposits that $10,000 in his checking account. For the bank that $10,000 turns into $90,000 in borrowing ability and the wheels keeps on turning. So your $1,000 in deposit has now turned into $90,000 for the bank to lend to customers. With money so easily accessible to the banks, they're always looking for ways to lend to create the same debt for the consumer. A system that creates money without printing and creating money.

Now, if you want to say that the U.S economy is real estate based I will agree with you. In a sense that all of this debt is backed up by real estate. So when the real estate market drops, the collateral can no longer support the debt and everyone's bottom line drops. So with all the accounting loop holes and tricks that corporations used to bring up their bottome line and say they have 7 billion dollars in assets, in reality they have no more than 1 million dollars in the bank.
 

Mahdi

Elite Member
Jan 1, 1970
6,999
497
Mjunik
dude your stuff around the Europe - US relationship is very 1984! such dynamic/sentiments to such degree no longer exists. If anything europeans are probably more concerned with germany and china than 'uncle sam'! not to mention their ever growing identity crisis and sociopolitical issues with muslims/minorities, decreasing populations and etc they are trying to deal with.

With regards to construction - most economies are construction based and majority of stimulus packages are directed to construction projects as construction and housing are a a major if not the lifeline of economic activity.

In case of US, I dont think people realize just how much equity and even cash US is sitting on - more than half of the world's total! so the real problem really is trying to get personal and commercial entities to pump these funds back into the economy somehow. In fact even a 10 trill. Dollar debt would not be a problem once this starts. Due to housing market problems and financial downturns the new focus should be on new industries through innovation. In transportation to technology to even agriculture and mining! After all this is what US is best at.

Just a recent stat to shed some light, as of jan 2011, 48million Americans have networths of at least over a million dollars! including some 8.5 million households that are millionairs not considering equity they have on their primary residence! this is an incredible stat of wealth I just saw on one our financial reports.
best post in this thread...thanks! wished you would once make a football related post like that. ;)
 
Jun 7, 2004
3,196
0
http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-acti...s-bill-to-cancel-public-debt-held-by-the-fed?
Rep. Paul introduces bill to cancel $1.6T in debt held by Federal Reserve

What do you think FP jan?
Thank you Kaz jaan for bringing this to our attention. I think the main idea behind this move is to stop the Fed from buying any more treasuries. It is essentially a way of lowering interest rates thus expanding money supply. If that debt were to disappear officially, the Fed will never be able to repeat what it just did. Ron Paul's main issue is that the Fed by increasing money supply is stealing from Americans and giving it to its friends, and it certainly is doing that.

However this is a bad solution. The reason is that it will cause a larger shock to the economy than Ron Paul thinks. The best idea Ron Paul has been advocating recently is to officially have gold or a gold denominated currency as an alternative currency. This will force the Fed to maintain a slowly growing money supply in order to stay viable or it will simply get eliminated. Always, always, the best solution is based on the unchangeable law of reality and of economy; no one has ownership or responsibility for anyone else thus maximum possible individual freedom is the order. A monopoly backed at the point of the gun by the government, such as the Fed over currency, is usury, and always bad. The best solution is to restore bargaining power by allowing an alternative to the Fed. The Fed will start behaving responsibly with very little dislocation.
 

raminio05

National Team Player
Lord jaan i get this "crap" from personal experience. They have FAFSA here (federal financial aid). I have gotten enough to cover my tuition and a certain amount of living expenses, and subsidized loans on top of that. If your considered a dependant it's all based on how much you and your parents make (In cali i think that anything under 30k'ish a year qualifies you for the maximun, which couple with loans is actually a lot of money). I have numerous friends who are getting that amount. But I also have other ones who don't get that much or any at all because their parents have/show too much income . If you're not a dependant, then it's how much you make.

The loans have pretty good grace periods and until recently they had pretty low fixed interest rates. Add to this the community college system (which is pretty darn cheap and which you can get financial aid for also), and two years of college should not amount to high loans for most people.
 

raminio05

National Team Player
Thanks for the info! I have read a lot about how biking lanes and such have improved in the US and lots of people choose bikes(my uncle as an example in Irvine is now cycling every day to work) but I guess that's not really applyable everywhere.

I see your point on college debts and tax hikes.
Add to the debt issue that lots of people study stuff that won't necessarily make them lots of money(though I have no problem with studying something that makes no money, I believe you study for life not for anything else..to each his own) and the current job market and I guess the debt on youth will become an even bigger issue.
I really think that whoever is in office should have and will need and etc. change a whole lot about the future generation. I mean, from what it seems to me, you are just always in debt in your adult life, which again, to me it's not that much of an issue as long as you can pay it back, but it's not necessarily a sustaineable lifestyle for everyone and it becomes a big deal once you can't pay it back.
I live in one of the bike friendliest towns in the US, so yeah i see it working. But i'm in a very small college town so i don't see that and a lot of other public transport working in big expansive cities such as OKC.

From the time that I have lived here, debt seems to be a part and parcel of america. it's quite depressing actually. But the thing is, even with the low paying degrees, it your standard of living is lower, or even more reasonable, it's really not that bad. If you're single, childless, and have a career, you don't have much to complain about. And here, a college dagree (unless it's an some sort of engineering) is worth the same that a highschool diploma was worth 10-15 years ago. It's the schooling that you get after the four year uni that sets you up for life.
 

Mahdi

Elite Member
Jan 1, 1970
6,999
497
Mjunik
I live in one of the bike friendliest towns in the US, so yeah i see it working. But i'm in a very small college town so i don't see that and a lot of other public transport working in big expansive cities such as OKC.

From the time that I have lived here, debt seems to be a part and parcel of america. it's quite depressing actually. But the thing is, even with the low paying degrees, it your standard of living is lower, or even more reasonable, it's really not that bad. If you're single, childless, and have a career, you don't have much to complain about. And here, a college dagree (unless it's an some sort of engineering) is worth the same that a highschool diploma was worth 10-15 years ago. It's the schooling that you get after the four year uni that sets you up for life.
as said, to me debt only matters when you can't pay it back. And given that in the 00s a lot of companies bet on debts always being paid back and house prices never falling...oh well..

Anyway, just in case, read The Big Short by Michael Lewis. It's a bit technical at times, but nevertheless, a great book.
 

Chinaski

Elite Member
Jun 14, 2005
12,269
352
Bottom line is: who wants to get his money back from the americans? who is willing to even cut the relationship with the americans although the americans refuse to pay back their debt? As i said before, at the end of the day, on international markets people are still having too much respect for the americans be it because of their influence or even because of their miltaristic superiority to ask them to pay their debts. After all it all comes down to neo darwinism and ghaanoone gardan kolofti. Mige age mitooni biaa pooleto bigir. Nemitooni ham ke khob hichi, khafe.