Dirty Wars Documentary

IEI

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Nov 10, 2002
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#21
They had bad intelligence. Even after the fact, there is no suggestion that Bush or the CIA lied about what they knew. It is that their information was based on faulty and bad intelligence. United States already had their troops stationed in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. How was the war against Iraq going to give them any more strategic control of the region?
As a matter of fact, they don't have any intelligence whatsoever,
the head of CIA told George Bush that images were not the proof for weapon of mass destruction and GB went on TV showed them in the United Nations and ignored all the intelligence !!
You need to read some books my friend before coming and talking about politics.
 
Jun 18, 2005
10,889
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#22
Read books that were written by whom? Every person who writes a book has an agenda and a bias. Apparently you take things for face value. Just because there is a documentary out there by a journalist then all said and heard in it must be true.

I am trying to use reason here. You said United States attacked Iraq and Afghanistan to gain more control and power in the Middle East. While I said Afghanistan is hardly a strategical location and worth the military money to support your theory.

Plus you are not really answering any questions here. Who do you think was behind 9/11?
 

IEI

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Nov 10, 2002
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#23
Read books that were written by whom? Every person who writes a book has an agenda and a bias. Apparently you take things for face value. Just because there is a documentary out there by a journalist then all said and heard in it must be true.

I am trying to use reason here. You said United States attacked Iraq and Afghanistan to gain more control and power in the Middle East. While I said Afghanistan is hardly a strategical location and worth the military money to support your theory.

Plus you are not really answering any questions here. Who do you think was behind 9/11?
Unlike some religious close minded human, I read books from both sides.

I don't know, why don't they allow a fair investigation ? You tell me.
To me, this can't be done with bunch of guys planning it in Afghanistan. There are so many facts that are ignored. Your problem is that you think that people who govern the world are people with heart. LOL

Till a year ago, nobody believed that every phone call and e-mail is read and investigated. If I told you a year ago, you probably have called me crazy and conspiracy theorist
but now it is proven when somebody dared to say the truth.
 
Jun 18, 2005
10,889
5
#24
I don't know, why don't they allow a fair investigation ? You tell me.
To me, this can't be done with bunch of guys planning it in Afghanistan. There are so many facts that are ignored. Your problem is that you think that people who govern the world are people with heart. LOL

Till a year ago, nobody believed that every phone call and e-mail is read and investigated. If I told you a year ago, you probably have called me crazy and conspiracy theorist
but now it is proven when somebody dared to say the truth.
So you do not think this could have been done with guys planning this in Afghanistan. Where else do you think it was planned?

If I am not mistaken you posted a video some time ago suggesting the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania was brought down by US military. Ignoring all the facts and evidence that suggest otherwise. Against just because there is a youtube video that suggested some conspiracy behind this you bought into it.

How many phone calls were made by passengers on those planes to their loved ones saying their planes were hijacked by Middle Eastern looking men? Or that they were going to roll the cockpit and save the plane from crashing into another target in DC.

I guess you do not consider the 9/11 report to be fair?
 
Jun 9, 2004
13,753
1
Canada
#25
Till a year ago, nobody believed that every phone call and e-mail is read and investigated. If I told you a year ago, you probably have called me crazy and conspiracy theorist
but now it is proven when somebody dared to say the truth.
IEI jaan, no one is sitting there listening to your phone calls or reading your e-mails, but if you didn't think that all your communications were subject of government electronic surveillance after 9/11, I think you were being a little naive.

As far as these documentaries, I find them irresponsible in the way they present everything in absolute rather than relative terms. Yes, mistakes have been made and atrocities committed by US troops in these wars - but name me one war where innocent civilians did not die. Wars are neither pretty nor can be avoided. Also, you have to consider the alternative to these wars and military interventions IMHO - humanity is not a loving peaceful specie and most often the alternative is even worse. We have not intervened militarily in Syria and the civilian death toll is 50,000 and counting by lowest accounts - millions homeless and living in refugee camps - worse atrocities have been committed. Soroosh mentioned Rwanda and that's another good example of non-interference.

And as a last point, you ask about Sudan, but if the west was to intervene there or in the Central African Republic, you'd come back in a few years and say why did innocent civilians die. In a way, western countries are dammed if they do, dammed if they don't. And at this point, we're doing more damage to our countries and our way of life in the west from the inside, than any outsiders would ever do. Just my two cents.
 

IEI

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#26
IEI jaan, no one is sitting there listening to your phone calls or reading your e-mails, but if you didn't think that all your communications were subject of government electronic surveillance after 9/11, I think you were being a little naive.

As far as these documentaries, I find them irresponsible in the way they present everything in absolute rather than relative terms. Yes, mistakes have been made and atrocities committed by US troops in these wars - but name me one war where innocent civilians did not die. Wars are neither pretty nor can be avoided. Also, you have to consider the alternative to these wars and military interventions IMHO - humanity is not a loving peaceful specie and most often the alternative is even worse. We have not intervened militarily in Syria and the civilian death toll is 50,000 and counting by lowest accounts - millions homeless and living in refugee camps - worse atrocities have been committed. Soroosh mentioned Rwanda and that's another good example of non-interference.

And as a last point, you ask about Sudan, but if the west was to intervene there or in the Central African Republic, you'd come back in a few years and say why did innocent civilians die. In a way, western countries are dammed if they do, dammed if they don't. And at this point, we're doing more damage to our countries and our way of life in the west from the inside, than any outsiders would ever do. Just my two cents.
Did you watch the documentary Bi-honar jan ?
 

IEI

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Nov 10, 2002
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#27
You know at the end of the game, you can believe what you believe. As a matter of fact, I don't want the whole universe to agree with me but when someone present a fact, I watch it and analyse it.

The point of this documentary is not whether a mistake was made by US military. The point is that there are tons of hidden wars that are occurring and are not reported to Americans. There is no transparency on them and civilians are killed without the US population awareness.
 

IEI

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Nov 10, 2002
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#28
So you do not think this could have been done with guys planning this in Afghanistan. Where else do you think it was planned?

If I am not mistaken you posted a video some time ago suggesting the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania was brought down by US military. Ignoring all the facts and evidence that suggest otherwise. Against just because there is a youtube video that suggested some conspiracy behind this you bought into it.

How many phone calls were made by passengers on those planes to their loved ones saying their planes were hijacked by Middle Eastern looking men? Or that they were going to roll the cockpit and save the plane from crashing into another target in DC.

I guess you do not consider the 9/11 report to be fair?
Dear Friend,

I might be wrong and 9/11 happened by Osama Bin Laden himself but I can tell you one thing the 9/11 report process was a joke and neglected so many facts.
If they are not even right, why they are not mentioned in the report ?
[1] Existence of multiple cameras in Pentagon with not a single one took a video in the most secure entity in USA ?
[2] Destruction of building #3 with report and hearing of explosions
[3] weird and conflicting reports about the flight 93
[4] More than 1000 engineers wrote a petition that steel doesn't melt in world trade centre, why not mentioning that ?
and much more ...
Why not mention these in the report ? Yeah after all these are conspiracy theories.
 

IEI

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Nov 10, 2002
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#29
watch from minute 17 to 20 even if you don't have time watch the whole thing

[video=youtube;J9gQRT6jXLQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=J9gQRT6jXLQ[/video]
 

Flint

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Jan 28, 2006
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#30
I have a new assignment for this hero journalist. 12 days ago a bunch of Taliban walked in a Kabul hotel, shot a 2 year old point blank, 4 times, then killed both his parents. You think this guy can find time to go to Afghanistan, interview the Taliban, find the killers, get them on film, just the way he did with the Americans and bring back his work and put it up on Netflix?

http://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/new-wave-violence-ahead-afghanistans-elections-n69286
 

Flint

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Jan 28, 2006
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#31
I promise if you decided to make a documentary one day and travelled to these places just to say America war was a right cause, I will watch it with open mind before I comment about it !
Name one civic organization, one society, one group, anybody, who is asking America to leave and leave the country to the Taliban? Who are they outside Hollywood rich and enlightened tea sipping liberals in SOHO.
 

Flint

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Jan 28, 2006
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#33
By the way, just recently we heard mass killings in Sudan, why our hero American's don't save them ?
We finally learned the lessons lefties have been trying to teach us for 50 years. America is not the policeman of the world anymore. That's why 150,000 are dead in Syria. That's why Russia is gobbling up neighbors left and right. Go to your beloved UN and ask them for troops. The days of free bombs and bullets are over.
 

IEI

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Nov 10, 2002
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#34
We finally learned the lessons lefties have been trying to teach us for 50 years. America is not the policeman of the world anymore. That's why 150,000 are dead in Syria. That's why Russia is gobbling up neighbors left and right. Go to your beloved UN and ask them for troops. The days of free bombs and bullets are over.
So let me get this right, America was doing policing job in the last 50 years and helping Vietnamese, Afghans and south Americans, wow ... I am so touched and in tears for America's compassion
Also in shock how uninformed you are.

The fact of the matter is that America wasted trillions of dollars in Afghanistan and Iraq and now there is no money to fight any wars in the world. In other world, George Bush and the staff miscalculated the price of war on terror ;)

By the way, it is close to Anderson Cooper show, watch some CNN maybe you get more insight about the world !!
 

Flint

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Jan 28, 2006
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#35
The fact of the matter is that America wasted trillions of dollars in Afghanistan and Iraq and now there is no money to fight any wars in the world. In other world, George Bush and the staff miscalculated the price of war on terror
No money to fight any wars in the world? I beg your pardon. There is plenty of money, it is just that this time it is YOUR turn to pay. Do it YOUR way this time. Be nice to them. Bring them gifts, beg, do whatever it takes. May be they'll let you live. Go to your Hollywood friends or Chomskys of the world and ask them pay for it. Just remember that the days of free bombs and blood is OVER. You'll never see and American soldier. Happy now?
 

IEI

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Nov 10, 2002
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#36
No money to fight any wars in the world? I beg your pardon. There is plenty of money, it is just that this time it is YOUR turn to pay. Do it YOUR way this time. Be nice to them. Bring them gifts, beg, do whatever it takes. May be they'll let you live. Go to your Hollywood friends or Chomskys of the world and ask them pay for it. Just remember that the days of free bombs and blood is OVER. You'll never see and American soldier. Happy now?
Ain't happening, America will always be in war forever. This time, it is the war done by drones and cruise missiles.
I only hope that we don't see the day that we open our eyes and half of the US bought by Chinese.
 
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Silverton

National Team Player
Nov 6, 2004
4,524
6
#37
Read books that were written by whom? Every person who writes a book has an agenda and a bias. Apparently you take things for face value. Just because there is a documentary out there by a journalist then all said and heard in it must be true.

I am trying to use reason here. You said United States attacked Iraq and Afghanistan to gain more control and power in the Middle East. While I said Afghanistan is hardly a strategical location and worth the military money to support your theory.

Plus you are not really answering any questions here. Who do you think was behind 9/11?
Afghanistan is not strategically important? Read this:

http://www.stratfordbeaconherald.co...nistan-strategically-so-important-to-the-west
 
Jun 9, 2004
13,753
1
Canada
#38
Did you watch the documentary Bi-honar jan ?
No, I was too cheap to buy it ;) but watched the trailer and the free segment. I'm obviously not debating anything portrayed in the movie as being non-factual, one because I haven't seen it and two because I know very well that these are normal occurrences in war and three I have read about many other similar atrocities and cover-ups - many of those made front page headlines over the years.

watch from minute 17 to 20 even if you don't have time watch the whole thing
I watched from minute 17 to 20 and there's nothing special in it - just a bunch of people with no credentials babbling out one erroneous statement after another, such as the speed of the plane having been 500 knots (official 460 knots), that being over the maximum speed of a 757 (540 knots), that the aircraft would rip apart at that speed (obviously not since its maximum speed is 80 knots higher!) and that the hijackers only had experience flying a small plane or didn't even know how to control a little Cessna (one of them had a commercial pilot's license!). It's just one BS statement after another and all you have to do when you watch these conspiracy theory videos is Google and confirm a few of the statements that they're trying to pass as factual and I promise you won't get past the 1st couple of minutes of any of them.
 

IEI

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Nov 10, 2002
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#39
No, I was too cheap to buy it ;) but watched the trailer and the free segment. I'm obviously not debating anything portrayed in the movie as being non-factual, one because I haven't seen it and two because I know very well that these are normal occurrences in war and three I have read about many other similar atrocities and cover-ups - many of those made front page headlines over the years.



I watched from minute 17 to 20 and there's nothing special in it - just a bunch of people with no credentials babbling out one erroneous statement after another, such as the speed of the plane having been 500 knots (official 460 knots), that being over the maximum speed of a 757 (540 knots), that the aircraft would rip apart at that speed (obviously not since its maximum speed is 80 knots higher!) and that the hijackers only had experience flying a small plane or didn't even know how to control a little Cessna (one of them had a commercial pilot's license!). It's just one BS statement after another and all you have to do when you watch these conspiracy theory videos is Google and confirm a few of the statements that they're trying to pass as factual and I promise you won't get past the 1st couple of minutes of any of them.
Bi-honar jan,
Actually I thought about it last night and I am not going to continue this discussion any more, the fact is most people are relatively successfully living in USA and Canada in this forum and they find it disrespectful to tell them about the other side of story. Somehow they even might consider you an Al'Qaeda fan to say America enter the war for the sake of their own benefit !!
But I make one point and won't continue this anymore, there is no way in hell a person that trained in a Cessna plane can fly a huge plane into Pentagon. I will never believe it.
I have heard 100 times in media that these guys were trained for few months in Florida.
 

Flint

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Jan 28, 2006
7,016
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United States
#40
Somehow they even might consider you an Al'Qaeda fan to say America enter the war for the sake of their own benefit !!
It is very easy to dispel any indication that you are an AL-Qaeda fan. All you have to do is to show as much indignation and passion for a two year old who was shot 4 times by the Taliban and then killed his parents. I looked for your posts to see what you thought of it. Sadly, you skipped right over it and decided it is more important to besmirch Americans than defend the child against Al-Qaeda.So I may have to conclude that...