does he deserve any credit?

[a123321r]

ok i'm not as hardcore as i used to be about my daei support but just wondering what people think about this record.. since daei came back to iran he was top goal scorer for perspolis.. then won the cup with saba battery.. then won the league with saipa and then won two cups back to back for perspolis.. you can say what you like about him but surely this is a born winner or do you think all of them were accidental!?

 

[Kaz]

If Daei is a born winner then GN is Pep Guardiola.

I think you're giving him a tad too much credit there.

 

[a123321r]

well winner.. judging by his playing career as well.. top goal scorer in asian cup.. then wc qualifying.. then went to germany, won the league with bayern, then helped hertha berlin qualify for the first time in their history to champions league and then took them to the second round..became the top goal scorer in football history (don't worry i wouldn't over-emphasize the point due to asian opposition but we've seen what our other strikers can do against the same asian opposition!) and then came back to iran and has won SOMETHING pretty much every year since he came back! btw your love for GN is a lot stronger than mine for daei! lol we pretty much like the opposites of everything from apple... to liverpool (second most hated team for me in premiership) to daei and GN to everything else! lol

 

[a123321r]

and the reason i ASK does he deserve any credit.. is because i KNOW his coaching skills ain't all that.. but he still seems to salvage something every year! to be honest was same as his football skills.. most iranians didn't really like daie because he didn't have flashy skills like karimi or kia etc but he still managed to get the job done better than most a lot of the times!

 

[OSTAD POOYA]

Daei does deserve credit. He was a top player and by being in Europe played in quality games with quality players and learned under quality coaches. He is intelligent and talented and uses that to his advantage. Many do not like him for not leaving early enough but he has gotten results here and there. He lost a lot of respect by not leaving early and then coaching that was approved for TM with the bad results obtained. I do agree though he is a born winner and will continue to win.

 

[Kaz]

btw your love for GN is a lot stronger than mine for daei! lol we pretty much like the opposites of everything from apple... to liverpool (second most hated team for me in premiership) to daei and GN to everything else! lol

This is where we're different. I state facts about GN. I don't lavish praise on him as if he is born a magical beast that can only win. You ever see me opening up a thread saying "Wow, GN has magic powers, the guy always succeeds!"? The reality is, GN is by far the best coach in the country; so why aren't you making the thread about him? Daei does deserve praise but there is a long way to go.

His teams are generally inconsistent and really frail at the back. With Saipa, he really inherited a strong team built by others. After the initial year, where in his 2nd he made many changes; he took Saipa which finished 3rd then 1st to a mid-table team by the time he left. Not sure I'd say this Hazfi cup makes him a success either. He failed in the league and in ACL this year. His time with Iran was an utter failure. That's his coaching career in a nutshell.

A long, long, long way to go before we start the "he is a born winner" tripe.

 

[footballeirani]

I would give him credit in spite of cussing him out during the season. With the kind of talent he had in his disposal he did better than expected. He just needs to work on his attitude and chill a little.

 

[Kaz]

Are you taking the piss? He had one of the best squads in the league:

 

[a123321r]

This is where we're different. I state facts about GN. I don't lavish praise on him as if he is born a magical beast that can only win. You ever see me opening up a thread saying "Wow, GN has magic powers, the guy always succeeds!"? The reality is, GN is by far the best coach in the country; so why aren't you making the thread about him? Daei does deserve praise but there is a long way to go.

His teams are generally inconsistent and really frail at the back. With Saipa, he really inherited a strong team built by others. After the initial year, where in his 2nd he made many changes; he took Saipa from being top 5 regulars to a mid-table team. Not sure I'd say this Hazfi cup makes him a success either. He failed in the league and in ACL this year. His time with Iran was an utter failure. That's his coaching career in a nutshell.

A long, long, long way to go before we start the "he is a born winner" tripe.

kaz jaan as much as i like you i've learnt not to argue with you.. you actually have a go at me for not stating facts.. all my first post was all about stating facts!!!!.. you big GN up against daei and talk about national team achievements as if GN actually achieved anything, GN was pretty much the biggest disaster there was.. don't forget he inherited a wc squad which although underachieved still had a lot of talent in it whilst daei inherited a team that hadn't had a coach for about half a year.. and you talk about the talent inherited in saipa, why don't you talk about the lack of talent in perspolis! anyway mate, point of my post was as a coach, i don't think he's all that.. but it seems amazing that he seems to win something almost every year.. as a player everyone thought of him as one of the least skillful players in the team and yet he achieved more than anyone else in iran's football history.. do you see where i'm going with this? i'm NOT trying to say he's a great coach!!! (... i would take him over GN any day of the week.. but that's not the point of the post! lol)

 

[Kaz]

LOL, I am not having a go at you for not stating facts. I am saying when you claim that I love GN more than you love Daei, you should notice that you still never see me open up a thread based on some - pardon me - childish worship and say "this guy deserves credit, see, it can't be all accident, he was born this way". If you ever see me defending GN it is on a statistical or factual basis - i.e. someone disputes what he has won or how much he has won, etc. There is no "love" for GN on my part. It's just unbelievable that a coach with this much success still gets so much crap - to the point where people will revise history to deny his victories.

GN was average at TM - his results are there. He qualified for AC and got out in the quarters; even a cursory look at our history in this tournament shows he was average. Daei helped us not qualify in one of the easiest routes in our history. One was average, the other a disaster. We came 4th in a group of 5 where 3rd would have taken us to playoffs. His tie to UAE (the only point they got in the entire group) eventually cost us our spot.

Which lack of talent in Perspolis? Look at that team. It is better than pretty much all bar 2-3 teams in the league. Which is not to say that talent is all that matters because look what happened to Estil Azin. The point being his squad was pretty good. 4th and a Hazfi cup is about where it should be for a huge club like Perspolis. I don't see the need to open up a thread as if he was hard done by or as if there is this mystical trait he has for winning that we all seem to be missing.

Az een harfha ham joda...az koon ovordin ke emsal ham bordin

 

[a123321r]

for fucksakes.. one last time.. 1.. it's a fucking QUESTION.. 2.. the reason for the question is that he is NOT a great coach but somehow manages to salvage something every year.. side note.. his farts are more talented than GN (i am not going to try and argue facts with you because already tried.. but ok let's try it your way.. daei never got to finish the qualifications and his team was not actually out of the qualifications when he was fired, also if judging by previous records.. we've NOT qualified for the WC a lot more times than we have qualified (as you judging GN's performance as average for us getting to the quarter finals of asian cup!) so daei's performance was above average (as he didn't get us disqualified!!!!!! lol) come on man.. let's stop discussing this.. it's friday night...

 

[Kaz]

Come on man, you're denying that Daei was "terring" on our qualification. That is why he was fired and Ghotbi came.

The reason we didn't qualify a lot of the time before is because Asia used to only have 1 spot. It's only until recent history that it got so good for us. 2.5 spots in a group of 5. The only time it was easier than that was when Branko was coach when it was 2.5 in a group of 4.

I know you're just "asking" but it's like my girlfriend going to her friends and saying "Don't you think Kazzie is sweet? He just bought me flowers!" Haha.

So your question is: does he deserve credit. Which should have a frankly easy answer: yes, he just won the Hazfi cup. That deserves some credit. This sentence gives you away though: "you can say what you like about him but surely this is a born winner or do you think all of them were accidental!?"

It's like an "I told you so" without saying "I told you so". That's why I am on your case You can say "I told you so" when he does a lot more.

P.S. it's Saturday morning here.

 

[a123321r]

lol saturday morning.. you should be enjoying your hangover!! i do kinda think he is a born winner but not because he is a great coach.. but like you said in the other thread, he is that connected and rich that he could probably go to europe.. he wasn't born in a well connected family or particularly rich .. that's the point.. he seems to always get something even if it seems improbable.. as a player as well, his lack of speed and skill made him look inferior than a lot of other players but he managed to achieve a lot more than them.. do you get what i mean yet?

 

[Kaz]

I know what you mean; but you should understand that creating a thread right after he wins the Hazfi cup to espouse this opinion does seem somewhat opportunistic, right?

Personally, I don't think he is a great coach. In terms of his choices as a player I agree. If Ali Karimi had 1/10th of his will and desire he would have been a top 10 talent in the world IMO.

 

[a123321r]

of course it's opportunistic! i'm not gonna go and post this right after iran loses it's second ever home qualifying match in azadi.. am i!! lol

 

[Babr]

credit of what? winning against foolad and malavan with a man advantage during whole game ! i bet you if both team didnt receive red cards they could beat this persepolis ! (well malavan almost did it !)

 

[Kaz]

Well it would be a fairer question if it was asked, say, mid-season. Imagine if I (and I have never done it) came after Sepahan won the IPL and won it's group and started praising GN. Imagine the reactions .

 

[a123321r]

GN's sole purpose in life is to take away some hatred away from daei!

 

[Fatso]

I fear this discussion.

 

[footballeirani]

credit of what? winning against foolad and malavan with a man advantage during whole game ! i bet you if both team didnt receive red cards they could beat this persepolis ! (well malavan almost did it !)

Baba to dige ki hasti. Hashemian scored the goal in Foolad game who happened to be Daei's sub. On the other hand Majid computer rid ba tavizash. Ali Daei won the hazfi cup two years in a row with average players.

And LOL at Kazem saying Perspolis had one of the best squads in the league! Just LOL. I think everyone here knows that you are a GN fanboy and hence why you would not open a thread asking for us to give credit to GN knowing the type of response you will get.

Ba on bazikonayi ke Sepahan dasht tooye in fasl, gooni sib zamini ro ham mizashti rooye nimkat IPL ro mibord. LOL