Eid mobarak

[Motori]

"They don't waste the meat and give it to needy"

My foot!! Every year in a single day over 2 million Sheep, Cow, Goat and Camel get slaughtered in the name of allah then all carcases will be dropped in a cavernous trench and then dirt get dozed over them by huge bulldozers.

Closet is a horrible place to live in. Liberate yourself, at least come up and like a man tell the whole world that you are a pious muslim. There is nothing wrong about that.

 

[feyenoord]

"They don't waste the meat and give it to needy"

My foot!! Every year in a single day over 2 million Sheep, Cow, Goat and Camel get slaughtered in the name of allah then all carcases will be dropped in a cavernous trench and then dirt get dozed over them by huge bulldozers

What a waste of precious life. Khak too sareshoon. Bunch of brainless vahshi people.

Closet is a horrible place to live in. Liberate yourself, at least come up and like a man tell the whole world that you are a pious muslim. There is nothing wrong about that.

Agreed. Jenabe moroti aziz, when you are saying "come up like a man and tell the whole world that you are a pious muslim" Dont you think it is a contradiction when you yourself do not have the courage to refer to the person you are talking to more directly? I am saying this, since I have personally been subjects of those attacks. Funny thing is, since I started read, read and read, and stopped being ignorant and stopped being a hypocrite with double standards i have become a subject to those attacks.

 

[Flint]

"They don't waste the meat and give it to needy"

My foot!! Every year in a single day over 2 million Sheep, Cow, Goat and Camel get slaughtered in the name of allah then all carcases will be dropped in a cavernous trench and then dirt get dozed over them by huge bulldozers.

.

I have heard this story before and it is still hard to believe. You would think after a two or three times somebody would recognize the terrible waste, but I guess I am being too generous.

 

[Farsi Zaban]

It must have been a small dog. I walked my German shepherd in the "dar va dehate" Isfahan (Ashkavand) to be specific & never experienced that. Maybe roostais are more civilized or because they have sheep dogs or maybe this dog was huge & they were scared of it they didn't do the same. The kids would even come up & ask if they can pet it.
On a separate note a funny thing I once saw was an old woman with chador meshky walking another German Shepard in charbaghe bala which is a busy main street in Isfahan. It was a very funny scene. People would slow down just to check it out.

Actually, mine was a GS too. I took him out in a more urban semi-crowded area though. The problem was I put a muzzle on him so they felt safe to provoke him. He was not at all an intrusive or aggressive dog however. He had plenty of running space at our house then, so we never took him outside again until we moved. Later after moving, we would take him outside early in the mornings when we knew there wouldn't be too many idiots around. He used to love hiking the trails around sheytankooh with us. Like you I found children to be mostly curious, it was more grown ass men who were the problem. At our new house, we also had serious problems with our neighbors who'd provoke him all day long and would throw spoiled food over the wall to make him sick. Fortunately, we found him a safe place and gave him away. I hear things have gotten better for dog owners these days though.

 

[Farsi Zaban]

Like I said, I'm not saying I'm any better. I eat meat and I'm a hypocrite. My issue is with those of you who act high and mighty cause you have a dog at home.

You usually make a lot of sense even when I disagree with you, but I don't even see what you are getting at here. Are you suggesting that it's OK to treat dogs like shit because other animals aren't treated well? Don't keep a dog if you believe it's najes but don't make it difficult for me to enjoy mine. Also don't torture stray dogs. Too much to ask?

 

[feyenoord]

I once made the mistake of taking my dog for a walk in Iran, and I had everything from good Iranian muslims cursing at me, spitting in our direction, to even trying to kick my dog. Mind you this was in shomal where people aren't even that religious. Spare me this nonsense about animal rights in Islam. Also muslims not torturing animals before killing them for their meat? Pure fantasy. They aren't getting full body massages dude.

LOL I did not read this before. How many of those people were there? That must have been a very traumatic experience I guess. And very interesting, since I have many relatives who are superstitious and religious yet they are dog-lovers. Moreover, I do know many Muslims who are dog-lovers, yet they find it najes. But I guess everything falls in place just to make sure you win an argument.

 

[Farsi Zaban]

LOL I did not read this before. How many of those people were there?

Just enough to make me regret taking him outside. Too bad you can't try owning a dog in a shahrestaan 18 years ago. I'm sure you'd welcome the hostility that comes with it. Hopefully, it's better now but for us it wasn't a pleasant ordeal.

 

[feyenoord]

Just enough to make me regret taking him outside. Too bad you can't try owning a dog in a shahrestaan 18 years ago. I'm sure you'd welcome the hostility that comes with it. Hopefully, it's better now but for us it wasn't a pleasant ordeal.

Why would you think that?

 

[Farsi Zaban]

Why would you think that?

Because apparently your dog-loving muslim relatives invalidate my experience as a dog owner in Iran and somehow you seemed amused by the hostility I encountered.

 

[feyenoord]

Because apparently your dog-loving muslim relatives invalidate my experience as a dog owner in Iran and somehow you seemed amused by the hostility I encountered.

Sure! Deconstruction is great thing. As I said, everything to win an argument.

 

[Farsi Zaban]

Sure! Deconstruction is great thing. As I said, everything to win an argument.

Yes dude I know. How dare we try to inject a dose of reality in this debate. Your dog-loving relatives prove we are all wrong.

 

[Fatso]

You usually make a lot of sense even when I disagree with you, but I don't even see what you are getting at here. Are you suggesting that it's OK to treat dogs like shit because other animals aren't treated well? Don't keep a dog if you believe it's najes but don't make it difficult for me to enjoy mine. Also don't torture stray dogs. Too much to ask?

No, not at all. I'd definitely agree with you that the attitude towards animals is nowhere near right or even normal. However all I'm saying is if your (not you specifically) heart aches for puppies, it should ache for the cows, lambs, pigs, chickens... that we all eat in our meals. That animal is being raised to be killed. Even if done correctly the halal way or done correctly in a slaughterhouse that animal has the same sense of pain that the dogs or cats we may own have. My question, is there really a difference between the dog or cat and the cow or lamb? I'm diverging from the topic now, but my point originally was that some photos showing an idiot who isn't even killing the animal the proper "halal" way is'nt any different than the messed up process the meat we buy at the grocery store has gone through.

 

[feyenoord]

Yes dude I know. How dare we try to inject a dose of reality in this debate. Your dog-loving relatives prove we are all wrong.

Reality is good. I am absolutely for it! Based on reality people can be criticized. However, it seems for you that you just want to see a proportion of reality (which fits your position).

 

[feyenoord]

No, not at all. I'd definitely agree with you that the attitude towards animals is nowhere near right or even normal. However all I'm saying is if your (not you specifically) heart aches for puppies, it should ache for the cows, lambs, pigs, chickens... that we all eat in our meals. That animal is being raised to be killed. Even if done correctly the halal way or done correctly in a slaughterhouse that animal has the same sense of pain that the dogs or cats we may own have. My question, is there really a difference between the dog or cat and the cow or lamb? I'm diverging from the topic now, but my point originally was that some photos showing an idiot who isn't even killing the animal the proper "halal" way is'nt any different than the messed up process the meat we buy at the grocery store has gone through.

That is also is a bit of reality that some friends "choose" to be ignorant about.

Not trying to divert the topic. However, around two years ago a friend who was a student of philosophy (and a very good one) from the Chinese background invited me to one of the beef-steak restaurant in Auckland. It was a self serving place, in which based on the picture of the cow you could see which part of it are more delicious, which are more expensive, etc . On each table there was a map of the cow's body.

It was then when it stroke me how egoistic we human beings can be to picture the most delicious part of the cow. We had a conversation with my friend and one thing led to another and we were suddenly on the topic of dogs and cats eating in Chinese culture. He told he finds it nonsense that people in the West criticize them for eating those animals while themselves. What he found more nonsense was how they are always trying to justify eating those animals are wrong. An example is when people says that a cat is cute. Well isnt that more unethical because we are saying that a cow looks uglier we it is okay. That is even more unethical. How about when we are saying that dogs are intelligent. Well, porks could be as intelligent.

Personally, since that day I have considered many times to become vegetarian specially when I eat meat.

 

[Flint]

Personally, since that day I have considered many times to become vegetarian specially when I eat meat.

It is hard to be a vegetarian when eating meat at the same time.

 

[Farsi Zaban]

Reality is good. I am absolutely for it! Based on reality people can be criticized. However, it seems for you that you just want to see a proportion of reality (which fits your position).

Except that it's extremely disingenuous to criticize people for forming their positions based on their real life experiences. Forming your position based on fear and mistrust is wrong, but forming them through repeated negative experiences is completely justified. I too have Muslim relatives who love dogs but I won't let that affect my understanding of reality. After all, if they owned dogs, which some do, they too would encounter hostility because of the prevailing negative attitude towards dogs and dog ownership. The person I gave my dog to was in fact a Muslim and a very devout one. He too was forced to keep his dogs away from actual residence at his villa despite his affection for his dogs. What's really striking to me is that you want to discount my and his experience altogether.

 

[feyenoord]

Except that it's extremely disingenuous to criticize people for forming their positions based on their real life experiences. Forming your position based on fear and mistrust is wrong, but forming them through repeated negative experiences is completely justified. I too have Muslim relatives who love dogs but I won't let that affect my understanding of reality. After all, if they owned dogs, which some do, they too would encounter hostility because of the prevailing negative attitude towards dogs and dog ownership. The person I gave my dog to was in fact a Muslim and a very devout one. He too was forced to keep his dogs away from actual residence at his villa despite his affection for his dogs. What's really striking to me is that you want to discount my and his experience altogether.

No, I do not want to discount your experience. Yet to be honest with you, based on what others have experienced I found it not true, or a bit exaggerated.

However, I do agree that the religion (islam) creates a negative attitude towards dogs. How much that leads to violence is a different issue. I actually think that is based on the society itself and education.

Yet, the issue in this thread was as usual attacking certain people for what we might find backward, however, forgetting that many of out practices or other's practices are cruel and backward. But we seem to be closing our eyes on them.

 

[feyenoord]

It is hard to be a vegetarian when eating meat at the same time.

WOOOW I did not realize that. Thanks for telling me that. Baba IQ

 

[Farsi Zaban]

No, I do not want to discount your experience. Yet to be honest with you, based on what others have experienced I found it not true, or a bit exaggerated.

However, I do agree that the religion (islam) creates a negative attitude towards dogs. How much that leads to violence is a different issue. I actually think that is based on the society itself and education.

Yet, the issue in this thread was as usual attacking certain people for what we might find backward, however, forgetting that many of out practices or other's practices are cruel and backward. But we seem to be closing our eyes on them.

Iran is a diverse place and the level of religiosity differs significantly from one town to the one right next to it. I only knew of one other family that kept dogs in our small shahrestan, but they kept their dog in their "baagh" outside the city limit. I can't imagine having a dog in a place like Astaneh in Gilan even today. In Lahijan it's probably much better these days. Rasht never had a problem to begin with, neither does Anzali most likely. I've lived in Tehran and knew lots of people there who had dogs and had little to no problems. This is all like 18-20 years ago. As discussed, dehaat is a whole different story. Half of my family is dehati, so I'm well aware of how much they need and value dogs. In general, anyone who has a dog loves it. It's impossible not to. It's funny, over the years we had hardcore religious people working for us who in the beginning would complain "najiste, najiste(sic)" but would later form a seemingly closer bond with our dog than what we had with him. Overall, without the negative attitude I think both dog owners and more importantly dogs themselves would suffer a lot less in a place like Iran.

Regarding how much religion influences the level of violence, I think a lot. Just look at Hindus. It seems to make a lot of difference there. It really depends on what the religious prescriptions are for dealing with animals.

Also, I don't think anyone is trying to excuse mistreatment of animals in non-muslim countries. Even when it comes to dogs, there are puppy mills here with absolutely horrid conditions, but nobody is trying to be an apologist for what goes on there the way some people want to excuse certain disgusting practices in Muslim countries. There are so many organizations dedicated to just that cause in the west. Saying nothing can be done in Muslim countries in the immediate future is plain stupid. It wasn't long ago that people were consuming "bareh too deli" in Iran, but that's almost gone because people started to recognize how disgusting that was. I disagree with others. I think its exactly on this day that we have to post pictures like this, just to raise more awareness. Saying this is offensive is just being an apologist. We have changed, and we can change again, Muslim or not Muslim.

 

[feyenoord]

Iran is a diverse place and the level of religiosity differs significantly from one town to the one right next to it. I only knew of one other family that kept dogs in our small shahrestan, but they kept their dog in their "baagh" outside the city limit. I can't imagine having a dog in a place like Astaneh in Gilan even today. In Lahijan it's probably much better these days. Rasht never had a problem to begin with, neither does Anzali most likely. I've lived in Tehran and knew lots of people there who had dogs and had little to no problems. This is all like 18-20 years ago. As discussed, dehaat is a whole different story. Half of my family is dehati, so I'm well aware of how much they need and value dogs. In general, anyone who has a dog loves it. It's impossible not to. It's funny, over the years we had hardcore religious people working for us who in the beginning would complain "najiste, najiste(sic)" but would later form a seemingly closer bond with our dog than what we had with him. Overall, without the negative attitude I think both dog owners and more importantly dogs themselves would suffer a lot less in a place like Iran.

Regarding how much religion influences the level of violence, I think a lot. Just look at Hindus. It seems to make a lot of difference there. It really depends on what the religious prescriptions are for dealing with animals.

Also, I don't think anyone is trying to excuse mistreatment of animals in non-muslim countries. Even when it comes to dogs, there are puppy mills here with absolutely horrid conditions, but nobody is trying to be an apologist for what goes on there the way some people want to excuse certain disgusting practices in Muslim countries. There are so many organizations dedicated to just that cause in the west. Saying nothing can be done in Muslim countries in the immediate future is plain stupid. It wasn't long ago that people were consuming "bareh too deli" in Iran, but that's almost gone because people started to recognize how disgusting that was. I disagree with others. I think its exactly on this day that we have to post pictures like this, just to raise more awareness. Saying this is offensive is just being an apologist. We have changed, and we can change again, Muslim or not Muslim.

There is not much I disagree with in this post. Even with your last sentence. However, what I was against is the way they are generalizing things to a set of people insulting them while being ignorant about ones own practices.

Anyway, what is "bareh too deli"?