Fascist beghaviour of US and its 'allies' (b!tches) towards Iran

SirAlex

National Team Player
May 6, 2007
5,124
0
#1
Someone explain to me how in the hell this behaviour is acceptable. This is fascism, this is one of the things that bothers me a lot whenever I remember it. Why can't we buy airplanes even if we pay top dollars? Why punishing the public, the ordinary joe?

Let alone new airplanes, why can't our crappy airplanes even REFUEL in Europe?

Has this happened to Libya, North Korea, or even Iraq before?

What are these bastards trying to accomplish here? These are supposed to be the symbols of the free world, who supposedly care about ordinary people in other countries? Even if they did not care about other citizens, don't they understand that many of the passengers on these planes are US and EU citizens?

Which one should I believe now? Their rooster tail or their Hazrat Abbas swear?

I don't get it, it boils my blood. :wallbash2:



-------------------------
U.S. deal with European oil firms hobbles Iran Air

By Thomas Erdbrink
Sunday, October 17, 2010

TEHRAN - A recent agreement between four of Europe's largest oil companies and the United States aimed at further isolating Iran is already having an impact, with Iran Air, the Islamic republic's national carrier, unable to refuel its planes in most of Europe.

The fueling problem follows a new push by the Obama administration to move beyond the strict letter of sanctions it imposed to a broader attempt to discourage international businesses from dealing with Iran.

It also illustrates a shift away from an earlier U.S. policy of reaching out to the Iranian people and trying to target mostly state organizations central to Iran's nuclear program. Officials now admit that the increased pressure is hurting ordinary Iranians but say they should blame their leaders for the Islamic republic's increasing isolation.

Under the agreeement, announced in Washington on Sept. 30, Total of France, Statoil of Norway, Eni of Italy, and Royal Dutch Shell of Britain and the Netherlands pledged to end their investments in Iran and avoid new activity in the country's energy sector. In turn, U.S. officials said, the companies would be protected from possible U.S. penalties for doing business with Iran.
ad_icon
Quantcast

In recent weeks, several major oil firms, including British Petroleum, Royal Dutch Shell and Q8, have abruptlycanceled jet fuel delivery contracts with Iran Air. The move by some big oil companies that were not part of the September agreement appears to indicate a ripple effect across the industry, as administration officials had hoped.

"The goal here is . . . to end companies from doing business within Iran," Deputy Secretary of State James B. Steinberg said when he announced the deal. He added that he hoped others would "see that this is what responsible companies are doing and that they should follow in those footsteps."

As a result of the canceled jet fuel contracts, all Iran Air planes departing from destinations such as Amsterdam, London and Stockholm are now forced to make lengthy fuel stops either at an airport in Germany or one in Austria, where Total of France and OMV of Austria are still providing the 66-year-old airline with jet fuel until their contracts run out, possibly as soon as next month. At that point,Iran Air could be forced to cancel or severely reduce flights.

During such a stop in the Austrian capital last Sunday, several passengers complained about the unannounced stop. "What do we have to do with our government?" an Iranian man asked loudly, after discovering to his surprise that the plane had landed on the Vienna tarmac. "We are becoming prisoners because of these disagreements between Iran and America.''

Iran Air's refueling problems come as the U.S. attempts to pressure the Islamic republic to abandon its nuclear program by targeting those who do business with Iran in the fields of finance, insurance, and transportation.

Earlier moves to isolate Iran focussed on Iranian state organizations suspected of producing a nuclear weapon such as the Revolutionary Guard Corps or the Iranian Atomic Energy Organization. But the latest sanctions, which included restrictions on the sale of refined oil products to Iran, as well as the growing pressure on businesses to steer clear of Iran, are now affecting the private sector and ordinary civilians. For example, it is becoming increasingly difficult to import items from luxury cars to raw materials.

Last week, Japan's top oil explorer, Inpex Corp., said it had pulled out of Iran's Azadegan oil field project, citing concerns that the U.S. sanctions could make it more difficult for the company to raise money from U.S. banks.

Iran Air, a state airline, is the main lifeline for Iranians with the outside world. Nearly 500,000 passengers a year fly between Tehran and 11 European capitals and beyond, a top Iran Air official said.



"We will continue to fly to Europe, if needed even with half occupancy to save fuel which we can bring from Tehran," said Mohammad Jalali, an Amsterdam-based district manager for Iran Air. "But we are losing time, money and passengers," he said.

President Obama told Persian language BBC Farsi channel in September that he was "concerned" for the Iranian people, but that they have to blame their leaders for the increasing isolation their country faces.

State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley said Friday that the administration was "directing our efforts at entities that we think support the government and its policies," but acknowledged that "there are ripple effects and that there are impacts that go beyond that."

"We want to see the Iranian people have the same opportunities to travel, to engage, as others in the region and around the world have," Crowley said. "And the only thing that's impeding Iran from having that kind of relationship with the United States and the rest of the world is the government and policies of Iran."

Under sanctions passed by Congress in July, jet fuel sales of as much as $5 million a year are permitted. Sanctions by the European Union specifically single out the civilian operations of Iran Air as being allowed, and do not call for restrictions against the airline. Jalali of Iran Air Amsterdam - an average station for the airline in Europe - said it purchased far below the $5 million limit.
ad_icon
Quantcast

After its delivery contract with Q8 was suddenly terminated by the Kuwaiti company, Iran Air approached all other possible sellers without success. "None of the oil companies are telling us why they have broken their contracts. We have agreements to operate from European countries; we are entitled to our fuel," Jalali said in an interview last week.

Representatives for major oil firms say jet fuel sales to Iran Air are good business but too dangerous to pursue given the treat of sanctions by the United States. "All big oil companies are in daily contact with the U.S. State Department regarding Iran," said a representative of a major oil firm on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the subject. "Be sure that the Obama administration is fully aware of the situation Iran Air is in."

Austrian oil company OMV, which is still delivering jet fuel to Iran Air planes in Vienna, said in its contract with Iran Air is "in line with all regulations by the E.U. and the United Nations." A person authorized to speak for the company said that commitments would be honored "for the time being." A representative of Total of France, which is supplying Iran Air in Cologne, Germany, said it was not able to respond to questions currently. Total is one of the companies that agreed with the United States to end all investments in Iran.

Iran Air is planning to take its case to the international court of justice in The Hague. "Traveling is a human right, airline conventions are broken and neither the European Union, U.S. or United Nations sanctions are calling for these restrictions against us," Jalali said. "This is a low-level war between Iran and the U.S., but I don't want our passengers to be in the middle."
 

Flint

Legionnaire
Jan 28, 2006
7,016
0
United States
#3
Several points,

- Many countries in the past have been subjected to economic sanctions to varying degrees, so that is nothing unusual. There is no human right to be able to buy jet fuel. Commerce takes two willing partners.

-There is no way you can separate official business from private business in Iran. They make mayo and pickles to cars and rockets.

- IR constantly boasts that they don't need the world. They rejoice being embargoed and claim it has helped the country. Well, here is their chance to advance even more. All they have to do is to double Airbus's mileage and they won't need to refuel.

- Sanctions are terribly destructive to IR's carefully crafted image of invincibility. They'll do anything to avoid the site of grounded Iran Air planes. Makes them look small in the eyes of people.

Your cries for freedom doesn't really fly here, no pun intended.
 
Feb 7, 2004
13,568
0
#4
IR is solely responsible for the miseries brought upon our nation.
The US offered to sell IR passenger planes in exchange for transparency in her nuclear program. As we all know IR refused that offer.
This is what happens when a regime doesn’t give a rat ass about safety of her own people and is only interested in empty slogan and rhetoric like “down with USA” , or wishes to “wipeout” a country off the map.
 

IranZamin

IPL Player
Feb 17, 2006
3,367
2
#5
What we have to remember is that South Africa was subjected to crippling sanctions as well. And those bans didn't just impact the Apartheid government, but in many ways the ordinary people including the blacks. But the overall goal was noble and justified.

I personally don't think there are enough sanctions. I support sanctioning pretty much every thing that is run by the regime, with the only exceptions being food and health supplies. Short of an all-out war, economic paralysis is the surest way to bring IR down.
 

The_Referee

National Team Player
Mar 26, 2005
5,534
0
Jabolqa Opposite Jabolsa
#6
- IR constantly boasts that they don't need the world. They rejoice being embargoed and claim it has helped the country. Well, here is their chance to advance even more. All they have to do is to double Airbus's mileage and they won't need to refuel.

...

Your cries for freedom doesn't really fly here, no pun intended.
Are you responding to SirAlex or to IRI?
 
Last edited:

The_Referee

National Team Player
Mar 26, 2005
5,534
0
Jabolqa Opposite Jabolsa
#7
I personally don't think there are enough sanctions. I support sanctioning pretty much every thing that is run by the regime, with the only exceptions being food and health supplies. Short of an all-out war, economic paralysis is the surest way to bring IR down.
Do you really think the sanction can bring down IR?

I am not too sure. That is why I am hesitant to support your above statement. I see the repeat of Iraq of 90s and I hate to see Iran going through the same.

I do not have a clear cut solution either. I do not think nobody does. I was hoping for people doing something from within. But they are also not up to it for any reason, either not seeing any feasible alternative or not having trust on the opposition while they do not see any viable opposition leadership apart from them or whatever else.

What I am also fearful of is that the approaches like what you promote considers people might do the uprising once they see IR is crippled. But when under sanction, like those in Iraq, people too become so crippled that they can not have that window of opportunity to think. Their day to day needs will be so dependant on the system, like those days of Iran Iraq war that they have to do some back stabbing to bring breat for their families. In such circumstance the chances of any uprising become minimal. So I am not really sure how and what sort of sanctions can bring us any close to the common goal, that is freedom of Iranians against IR!
 

The_Referee

National Team Player
Mar 26, 2005
5,534
0
Jabolqa Opposite Jabolsa
#8
IR is solely responsible for the miseries brought upon our nation.
The US offered to sell IR passenger planes in exchange for transparency in her nuclear program. As we all know IR refused that offer.
This is what happens when a regime doesn’t give a rat ass about safety of her own people and is only interested in empty slogan and rhetoric like “down with USA” , or wishes to “wipeout” a country off the map.
That is quite true.

However, now with that in mind and not being able to change IR's behavior, the golden question is how to make them kneel without crippling Iranian public and crippling the chances of any movement from within Iran!

I am not sure at all if sanctions can do more harm to IR than to people. We have seen it on Iraq, Lybia and other places. The only place that had worked was in South Africa. The reason was that South African whites, although racists, were not idiots! But we are dealing with idiots such as those you descibed above. So how can we guarantee they will come to senses after being pressed by sanctions?
 
Feb 7, 2004
13,568
0
#9
That is quite true.

However, now with that in mind and not being able to change IR's behavior, the golden question is how to make them kneel without crippling Iranian public and crippling the chances of any movement from within Iran!

I am not sure at all if sanctions can do more harm to IR than to people. We have seen it on Iraq, Lybia and other places. The only place that had worked was in South Africa. The reason was that South African whites, although racists, were not idiots! But we are dealing with idiots such as those you descibed above. So how can we guarantee they will come to senses after being pressed by sanctions?
Ref jan,

As you very well know, nothing comes for free. You pay one way or another for everything including freedom. Sanctions may hurt ordinary people but our people are hurting with or without sanction. I was talking to a relative yesterday and she was telling me about frightening gap between rich & poor and how suffering is getting unbearable for part of the population . I wished we had such thing as smart/surgical sanctions in real sense but we don’t. world community can’t sit idle. Something must be done and quiet frankly it is either sanctions or military option.
There is something more important at stake here IMO. I am afraid another decade of IR might put the entity called Iran and its territorial integrity in real danger.
With that grim scenario in mind, Iranians must decide if sanction is too big a price to pay.
 

The_Referee

National Team Player
Mar 26, 2005
5,534
0
Jabolqa Opposite Jabolsa
#10
#8 Jan,

There are two distinct things here:

1- West wants to protect Israel and prevent Iran from going nuclear
2- Us wanting Iran freedom and IR gone tomorrow.

1&2 are not exclusive but there are occasions and points that they might not be the same. In those things we differ from the West to a great extent.


Ref jan,

As you very well know, nothing comes for free. You pay one way or another for everything including freedom. Sanctions may hurt ordinary people but our people are hurting with or without sanction. I was talking to a relative yesterday and she was telling me about frightening gap between rich & poor and how suffering is getting unbearable for part of the population . I wished we had such thing as smart/surgical sanctions in real sense but we don’t. world community can’t sit idle. Something must be done and quiet frankly it is either sanctions or military option.

There are a few points here too:


Do people inside Iran agree and as readily as you are with the above terms? If not, are you so honest with them to tell them or you might think not! Also would you consider them patient and yourself a doctor?
What I see is that our folks inside Iran were not even willing to push green movement further than this. We really need to be very realistic here. When the green movement has slowed down so much, there is a message in that: people inside Iran are voting against further sacrifices with their very actions. We really need to respect that. I am not saying they know the best. They have proven not knowing the best in 1979. However, I do not know the best either and can not say for sure.

The second point is that how sure are we that this surgical operation will make things better. I know IR is the worst to happen to Iran. But can we gaurantee it is the not the worst? We do not really want to kill the patient because he has cancer! And believe me IR is cancer! But there could be worst cancers too.


There is something more important at stake here IMO. I am afraid another decade of IR might put the entity called Iran and its territorial integrity in real danger.
That is exactly a worse scenario than IR .

However, I doubt that is any serious. We are not worse than Iraq, who are glued together by Britains and are really 3 separate nations. We have a complete history together and the bonds are far greater than that to be broken by anyone!

With that grim scenario in mind, Iranians must decide if sanction is too big a price to pay.
Unfortunately, for the moment that descision is anybody's but Iranian people, be it IR government or Western powers. They have their own agenda each!
 

Chinaski

Elite Member
Jun 14, 2005
12,269
352
#11
Ref jan,

As you very well know, nothing comes for free. You pay one way or another for everything including freedom. Sanctions may hurt ordinary people but our people are hurting with or without sanction. I was talking to a relative yesterday and she was telling me about frightening gap between rich & poor and how suffering is getting unbearable for part of the population . I wished we had such thing as smart/surgical sanctions in real sense but we don’t. world community can’t sit idle. Something must be done and quiet frankly it is either sanctions or military option.
There is something more important at stake here IMO. I am afraid another decade of IR might put the entity called Iran and its territorial integrity in real danger.
With that grim scenario in mind, Iranians must decide if sanction is too big a price to pay.
This is exactly what i have said a few weeks ago. All this talk about sanctions will hurt people is just well..talks. Sanctions would hurt people in a country where the flow of money from up to down (from dolat be mellat) is relatively intact. In a country like iran inwhich such a flow basically dosnt exist and the money disapears before it gets down to people, the damage to those who always stole that money will be undescribably higher because people are suffering anyway. They are dieing a slow and painfull death, i think they are more than ready to accept harsher sanctions that could bring a relatively fast change of the whole situation. They are surrounding Iran, they have heavy influence all over the world. The americans could cut Irans oil and gaz exports pretty fast. That wouldnt take them more than a week to make everyone around us clear: we are serious about it, cut it or...

This is what they have done to Iraq and Saddam was getting weaker and weaker seemingly.

Problem here: Those who could generate real pressure on IR , are not willing to.
 
May 21, 2003
19,849
147
Not The Eshaalic Goozpublic !
#12
A fascist action would be to bomb Iran and destroy the country's infrastructure.

What is being done is extremely mild and i doubt it would have any effects on the ruling party of IR.

What it could do maybe that the ALI MAFOOL and MOJTABA MOZALAF band might have to share some of the 450 billion dollars they gathered during the oil boom with the average joe of iran.
 

beystr 2.0

Bench Warmer
Jul 9, 2006
1,983
0
#13
U.S. and Nato could not even sanction taleban...yes..the band of zealot moslems they liked at one time..lets not even bring in conspiracy theories..don't need it...fact is.. a U.S boy from some small town US can not know all the nooks and crannys of a land he does not know how to spell it....the higher ups in America know it...but ..why dare dokoone bebande...and reg. Iran if U.S. was so interested in being good and cooperation then why did she treat Khatami who help these mofos in Afghanistan in 2001 and more..like dirt...indeed stopped the sales of Airbuse right there..man yeki don't have any respect for Yanks..
 

Chinaski

Elite Member
Jun 14, 2005
12,269
352
#14
I dont have much respect for the US administration either but my reasons and motivations are different. One thing that makes me regard them as evil is that they were smart and clever enough to create an atmosphere inwhich their own doctrin, views and news are regarded as right and righteous and everyone else who makes his own do dotaa chaartaa and sees clear paths and facts that get swept under the table by the media, is considered a conspiracy theorist by default.

When i dont like the us administration than because i see clear paths and facts that make me believe they are supporting this regime without telling it loud and without having to back it up. Whatever they did in the last 30 years led to this regime become more powerfull, i dont even want to go back and discuss everything Carter and his administration did to get rid of shah infavour of khomeini but Mr. Richard Armitage back in 2003 and while people on tehrans streets were about to get massackred called the IR a democracy. Telling something like that in such a sensitive time tells me more than all those US-IRI rants against eachother which infact are just for you and me average joes and doesnt change anything about the real facts.

I am not even saying they love these mullahs. Its like a cold blooded calculation and planing. They still need them, once their time expires, they will get rid of these mullahs as fast as they god rid of shah.

All these little rants and slogans that pop up every once in a while, meaningless sanctions, all these ridiculous siaah baazi about Irans nuclear program.. they all have one goal and purpose and its to send people donbaale nokhod siaah. Getting rid of the mullahs is not a big deal. If the Mullahs are such evil then why invading Iraq and not Iran? Why attacking a country that infact was not possesion of mass destruction weapons and never had anything to do with islamism? These are facts that they dont like. Its easier to brand everyone who asks these questions as conspiracy theorists than to sit down and explain the reaons and actually answer the questions, because in that case they would have to dismantle and embarass themselves and they are not willing to as they still intend to sell us the "american freedom fighting" product.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Oct 18, 2002
11,593
3
#15
A question about this issue: I was reading on an Iranian site where they claimed the international commercial aviation regulations (whatever they are) forbid airports from refusing to allow refueling to civilian aircraft. Is this true?
 

beystr 2.0

Bench Warmer
Jul 9, 2006
1,983
0
#16
Deerouz jon..let me make a quick reply and then I can aelaborate later....

right now the situation ( from what I see) has become so that no company of considerable size and business wants to risk being associated with Iran..i.e IRI..nothing necessarily legal or illegal...since as a foreign vendor u ultimately have to deal with IR...then they r being cautious in their day to day dealings..
 

beystr 2.0

Bench Warmer
Jul 9, 2006
1,983
0
#17
but anyhow..U.S. really Namardi kard against Iran at the Khatami's time..a lot has been said about IRI's help to U.S. in the early part of Afghanistan...but do u know IRI helped U.S. big time reg. the early parts of Iraq war..( even though Bush had said the axis of evil thing)..they (IRI) basically marked the ground ( Iraq) for U.S. troops..and saved a lot of their boys from going on Mine ..etc..I won't say more except even a letter of a lower U.S. General was published ( and then that paper got shut down due to some funny reasons next day..forgot the name of paper) in a Tehran paper thanking a IRI general..( later to lead the ghods force) for unprecedent help and something like saving the young american boys for their family and the country.
 
Aug 27, 2005
8,688
0
Band e 209
#18
Regarding sanctions against IRI, US is not the only one who is fascist.

Beside US, Uganda, Gabon, Bosnia, Austria, Japan, France, UK, Germany, China, Russia, Mexico,
and Nigeria all acted in Fascistic manners. :wallbash2:

Lebanon did not know if she is a fascist or not, thus abstained.:confused:

Brazil and Turkey knew they are not fascists.:hug:
 

beystr 2.0

Bench Warmer
Jul 9, 2006
1,983
0
#19
Motori jon..i don't think anyone can deny the force behind sanctions is U.S. the rest r mainly nokhodi..

btw- be careful what u wish for..I as somebody that has to ride these planes an average of 4 times a month consider this particular sanction criminal and blood thirsty...anyone of us or our loved ones could be on those planes...and again what has it accomplished except spilling innocent blood...is't this terrorism.? or double standards r being practiced..?
 

moosh1

Ball Boy
Jan 20, 2004
440
1
#20
Things are the way they are, unless we take action and do something about it.
How come, countries like south Korea, Japan, or even Turkey don't have the same problem as we Iranian have?
If Iranian don't act responsible and do it themselves some one is going to do it for them. We Iranian always try to blame outside forces for bad tings that is happening to us. We never ever like to take responsibilities for any things. We either say is god welling or Engliss or US. We don't like rich and prospers people and we say they are thief. We always cry for injustices, but when we our self become in charge we do 100 times worth then them.
The question is how cold we fix the wrong? We need education and exposure and it take time and good system to be in place. Until then if this present situation last we are going to fall even worth then now. We try to give our society so much credit for every little movement. The reason I always bring the Pahlavi regime as example: because during the Pahlavi's we had some of basic ground for prosperities and it was up to us and simpler to fix things then now. System of government was not against modernity's, Iranian people were not bared to travel to other countries and so many other things. Now we are entrapped in to the backward system and all the other goodies that every one knows and I don't have to repaid it.
During the past 30 years or so, it has appeared that Iranian people are not capable or at least are not welling to pay the price for change. In past 100 years from constitutional revolution to now, our society was cut in between tradition and modernity we have not been able to determine which way should we chose.
This is even evident in this site, the dual identity reflect in every movement of Iranian society.
In todays fast pace world there is very small room for traditions. Don't get a wrong idea I am not totally against tradition, but what it don't work is tradition of TEVAKOOL BE KHOODA. This alone is the most poisons thought of all backward cultures. If one digs in to our language will see so many passive word just for comforting the thought and let got.
We are never a fighter we like losers and underdogs because it is the reflection of our own life.
So, if US or western powers did some thing to Iran, we should only hold ourselves responsible as my dad was saying:
If you want to be prospers, go and become strong. Because wicks are dooms in natures.