For Bahais, a Crackdown Is Old News

[Meehandoost]

As I said, they are just like the rest of us! some religious, some half-religious and some not religious at all. They have all been through man-made religious bullshit that happens to be just as useless as the rest of the religions.

Hameye din-ha bedarde laye jerze divar mikhoran. A few particular teachings are interesting and deserve attention, but the rest are mostly charando parand.

The God people whorship has given them a brain. Following a religion instead of your own brain is nothing but "KOON GOSHADI". We have a lot of KOON GOSHAD people on earth.

Wow, is this the most profound contribution you could make to this discussion, one that is worthy of you? Does the same "brain" that you say also command the tongue how to express its thoughts in a manner that is worthy of its character?

How sad to have an opportunity to make a meaningful contribution and show support for the plight of these Baha'i "friends" that you claim to have, yet choose to say that it is the fault of the Baha'is for being persecuted for believing in their faith! By that thinking, the Holocaust would also be the fault of the Jews for holding to their beliefs, or the Armenian genocide their own fault for being Armenian!

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but to presume to know the sentiments of the entire Baha'i community is quite a tall tale you continue to tell. Here is challenge for you. Print your two masterpieces under this thread and show them to these so called Baha'i "friends" of yours next time you see them and ask them how they relate to your comments. You might be in for a rude awakening ace!

 

[joonevar22]

joonevar22 jaan - again your choice of name not mine - to some extent you may be right and although Baha'is do not have to marry only Baha'is, but they should marry the ones that also believe in the same principles of equality of sexes, chaste spiritual life, global view on issues, etc. otherwise the marriage is not of the spirits rather only the bodies, and will not last. Even people that have common beliefs and values are tested enough later in their marriage, let alone if there are fundamental core differences, for instance marrying one who is a strong political activist, heavy drinker, very nationalistic, not that you were one of those or all those are the same, but some examples.

Also, you seem to somehow have equated the principle of avoiding partisan politics as being aloof from the events of Iran and Iranians, no dear, Baha'is care deeply for Iran which they consider a holy land, but their approach to its ultimate freedom and justice are different which is outside this discussion and if you do a brief google search you may come across the recent messages about Iran. At any rate, this piece of news was about the plight of the Baha'i "leaders" who have been held captive for over a year without a charge or trial, and are supposed to be going on trial in Islamic republic today. It is OK that it gave you an opportunity to release some of your emotions, but the topic really transcends individuals. I'm glad that you have "moved on" with your life; keep in mind that moving on also includes not relating all things Baha'i to your marriage!

My name is what it is....just like your faith it is what it is.[FONT=Arial, Helvetica] Baha'is overemphasize obedience to their religious institutions and believe the highest leadership organ of their faith is directly guided by God and infallible in all its decisions; and second, that Baha'is tend to have an unhealthy liking for bureaucracy and downplay the importance and benefits of individual free thought and activity. Baha'i Faith prohibits its members from participating in partisan politics.If you care for Iran then join and fight for it but you cant cause as its stated your not allowed to do so.anyways buddy let it go I dont want to get to far into something i dont believe in and care for.Thanks best of luck to you and your bahaism.Ishalla azad nishan be zood just like the rest of the minorities in evin today.we must not forget that bahai's are not the only minority that dont have a right of speech but wait no one does in iran.Zende bad Irani va kesi ke bara mehanesh boland mishe va dava mikone bara azadish.you dont seem to get the point though so its pointless for me to agree with you.[/FONT]

 

[joonevar22]

You talk with emotion soroush jan ..
Is not excatlly as what you said :

There are bahai who are not very religious , there are some who are and even the one that are religious they have their normal life like me and u and dont try to influence other people life , opinions ..
sometime u wont notice that a X person is really a religious bahai unless u really become so freindly with him .. he has his normal life like everyone !
ofcourse there are some exception in everything ..but you CANT generalize it man , come on !!

No I can tell you most guys that are bahai are totally like you and I,but the girls seem to be way more religious.And your right generalizing is not good, there are good and bad ppl in all religions.

 

[Bache Tehroon]

Wow, is this the most profound contribution you could make to this discussion, one that is worthy of you? Does the same "brain" that you say also command the tongue how to express its thoughts in a manner that is worthy of its character?

How sad to have an opportunity to make a meaningful contribution and show support for the plight of these Baha'i "friends" that you claim to have, yet choose to say that it is the fault of the Baha'is for being persecuted for believing in their faith! By that thinking, the Holocaust would also be the fault of the Jews for holding to their beliefs, or the Armenian genocide their own fault for being Armenian!

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but to presume to know the sentiments of the entire Baha'i community is quite a tall tale you continue to tell. Here is challenge for you. Print your two masterpieces under this thread and show them to these so called Baha'i "friends" of yours next time you see them and ask them how they relate to your comments. You might be in for a rude awakening ace!

1. No it's not the most profound contribution I can make to this thread. The most profound contribution would take me a long time to write and the rest of people a long time to read.

yet choose to say that it is the fault of the Baha'is for being persecuted for believing in their faith

Cherto pert nagoo. When did I say that? Hoseleye harfe moft nadaram. harfe moft nazan. I have enough occupying my mind about Iran. In harfa ro too dahane man nazar. Go read my other posts.

Print your two masterpieces under this thread and show them to these so called Baha'i "friends" of yours next time you see them and ask them how they relate to your comments. You might be in for a rude awakening ace

hehehehe!!!! quite a few of them are actually here and read this thread. They have chosen over the years to not be vocal about their faith which I guess is their choice and I must respect it, but don't worry. I'm closer than you think to the Bahai community. We have no problem sharing our laughs and frustration over the religious bullshit we've all been fed over the years.

I suggest you take it a bit easier when it comes to your faith. What you believe in is really not that important to others, as I don't expect you to be very concerned about what I believe in.

At the moment, I believe in a better future for Iran in the form of a more democratic government system and separation of religious bullshit and state(whether is Islam or Scientology). Islam, Bahaiat, Christianity, Judism and everything else have a very low priority on my list.

 

[Meehandoost]

It's amazing the number of Baha'i "friends" some have at the right moment in their argument, which would have more meaning if it included concern for their persecution and support for their right to their belief without ambivalence. This would be true "friendship". Fortunately, the resolve of the Baha'i community and the courage with which it endures the cruelty of the religious fanatics transcends popular support and partisan politics that sway with the wind. Ironically, the separation of religion and state that they seek IS too a Baha'i principle!

 

[Meehandoost]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]...Baha'i Faith prohibits its members from participating in partisan politics.If you care for Iran then join and fight for it but you cant cause as its stated your not allowed to do so....we must not forget that bahai's are not the only minority that dont have a right of speech but wait no one does in iran.Zende bad Irani va kesi ke bara mehanesh boland mishe va dava mikone[/FONT]

joonevar22 jaan,
You speak of partisan politics as if it has been a good thing. Furthermore, I am actually encouraged that the youth are NOT for "dava" as you say or violence and revenge in Iran, but peaceful solutions. As well, not to worry young friend, I have fought for Iran in my own ways possibly longer than you have lived, but we all have different capacities. How innocently naive and sweet to think that the struggle for freedom in Iran has started just now! No dear, read the recent history, particularly Qajar era and the influence of the Islamic clerics.

And finally as I said before, this thread is about the plight of Baha'is and in particular their entire leadership that has been kept captive without charge or access to legal counsel since over a year ago, following which all Baha'i religious activities were banned by the Islamic republic. I know that all religious minorities endure some hardship in Iran, but I was not aware that all their leadership were also taken into custody without charge and all their religious activities have been banned. If you are privy to such information, please share it, especially under its own dedicated thread. Your comments remind me of a certain "beauty" who also insisted to talk about all but Baha'is!

 

[Bache Tehroon]

It's amazing the number of Baha'i "friends" some have at the right moment in their argument, which would have more meaning if it included concern for their persecution and support for their right to their belief without ambivalence. This would be true "friendship". Fortunately, the resolve of the Baha'i community and the courage with which it endures the cruelty of the religious fanatics transcends popular support and partisan politics that sway with the wind. Ironically, the separation of religion and state that they seek IS too a Baha'i principle!

Bebin baradare man, I may have made a lot of mistakes in my life and fucked many things up, but my record at this particular forum is saturated with posts and threads dedicated to my deep concern for the unjust persecution and oppression of people who don't believe in the Islamic regime. Many people have argued with me that "this is not the real Islam" and all that crap. They are probably right. This is not real Islam, but to be honest, why should I care? I care about humans not Islam, Bahaiat or other stuff.

So what if the person who is unjustly being jailed, harrassed or executed happens to be Bahai? Honestly, who cares? I personally don't. To me, an innocent person is an innocent person. It doesn't matter if they're being killed because they believe in Bahaiat or Judism. Just because I have friends that are Bahai and their families did indeed experience the injustice of Islamic Republic, it doesn't mean I should start defending Bahaiat and call it a good religion. I despise religions all together. It has never stopped me from loving or being loved though which is further proof for my argument with religious people.

I love creatures (humans, animals and plants) not their method of satisfying their personal belief in a divine being called "God", "Allah", "Ahoora Mazda", ...

I personally believe in God and have no idea who he/she is, what his purpose of creations was, where he lives, what the hell he does all day or why he hasn't made me win the lottery yet. I am very interested to know these things though and I always try to satisfy my curiousity by using my brain and doing research, always. I think eventually most humans will do the same as they find less depth in man-made religious teachings.

Ironically, the separation of religion and state that they seek IS too a Baha'i principle!

Good. That's one of those particular principles that holds some value, but this principle has been around much longer than bahaism and I don't necessarily have to advocate bahaiat to tell people that I believe in separation of religion and state!

 

[Babr]

Bebin baradare man, I may have made a lot of mistakes in my life and fucked many things up, but my record at this particular forum is saturated with posts and threads dedicated to my deep concern for the unjust persecution and oppression of people who don't believe in the Islamic regime. Many people have argued with me that "this is not the real Islam" and all that crap. They are probably right. This is not real Islam, but to be honest, why should I care? I care about humans not Islam, Bahaiat or other stuff.

So what if the person who is unjustly being jailed, harrassed or executed happens to be Bahai? Honestly, who cares? I personally don't. To me, an innocent person is an innocent person. It doesn't matter if they're being killed because they believe in Bahaiat or Judism. Just because I have friends that are Bahai and their families did indeed experience the injustice of Islamic Republic, it doesn't mean I should start defending Bahaiat and call it a good religion. I despise religions all together. It has never stopped me from loving or being loved though which is further proof for my argument with religious people.

I love creatures (humans, animals and plants) not their method of satisfying their personal belief in a divine being called "God", "Allah", "Ahoora Mazda", ...

I personally believe in God and have no idea who he/she is, what his purpose of creations was, where he lives, what the hell he does all day or why he hasn't made me win the lottery yet. I am very interested to know these things though and I always try to satisfy my curiousity by using my brain and doing research, always. I think eventually most humans will do the same as they find less depth in man-made religious teachings.



Good. That's one of those particular principles that holds some value, but this principle has been around much longer than bahaism and I don't necessarily have to advocate bahaiat to tell people that I believe in separation of religion and state!

wow wow wow
ye nafase amigh bekesho o relax kon !

now u are going too far on ur comments ..
show some respcet man !
we talked about a 16 yrs old girl who was killed by this regime just she didnt want change her religion and exemple of this are many ( shiraz bahai killed ) !
You are not religion , fine man ! i may not be religoius either but show some respcet ! it doesnt cost anything man !

 

[Bache Tehroon]

wow wow wow
ye nafase amigh bekesho o relax kon !

now u are going too far on ur comments ..
show some respcet man !
we talked about a 16 yrs old girl who was killed by this regime just she didnt want change her religion and exemple of this are many ( shiraz bahai killed ) !
You are not religion , fine man ! i may not be religoius either but show some respcet ! it doesnt cost anything man !

Please tell me which part of my post was disrespectful to this 16 year old innocent girl?

Thanks.

This is the conclusion at the end of the article which I totally agree with:

Attacked by the Basij militia and the Revolutionary Guard, assaulted with water cannons and guns, Iranian Muslims, at least the ones who publicly call for fair elections and human rights, are being treated just like Bahais.

As I said, we're all humans and victims to religious cherto-pert fed to us by idiots who are victims themselves. The name of the religion makes little difference.

 

[Farsi Zaban]

I found BT's posts here quite funny and I think he is being misunderstood.

 

[Meehandoost]

... but my record at this particular forum is saturated with posts and threads dedicated to my deep concern for the unjust persecution and oppression of people who don't believe in the Islamic regime.

Well dear, it's not so much that the Baha'is don't believe in the Islamic republic, rather that it denies them freedom. Be that as it may, this is your entire first post under this thread, your words not mine, please share where you express "deep concern"?

I can't even count the Bahai friends I have and grown up with and I can tell you they're just like the rest of us. Been through religious bullshit that they mostly don't believe in. Hamamoon ye joorayee badbakhtim. Religion has kept us from realizing our true human potential. This applies to many Christians, Jews and Buddhists too.

I have first hand experience with Bahais and I find the majority of their religion's teachings just as shallow and useless as Islam's.

500 years from now, none of these religions will mean fuck all to most humans.

The boldfaced parts seem to suggest that you are discounting Baha'i principles and condemning the Baha'is for their beliefs in very unflattering language dear. You could have simply said that you disagree with some or all of their beliefs, but support them in their struggle for freedom as you do all other Iranian citizens. But you seem to indicate in clear terms that their teachings are shallow and useless and most Baha'is don't believe in them! Do you not wonder then why they continue to be persecuted?

...Just because I have friends that are Bahai and their families did indeed experience the injustice of Islamic Republic, it doesn't mean I should start defending Bahaiat and call it a good religion...

No dear, expressing concern or defending the rights of others to hold their beliefs does not mean that you espouse them too, rather that you support freedom of belief and speech. Otherwise, if you can only tolerate others when they mirror your beliefs, then why are you mad at the IR? And lastly, I understand your frustration, but I hope you agree that the language we use is a reflection of our character.

 

[Babr]

Please tell me which part of my post was disrespectful to this 16 year old innocent girl?

Thanks.

This is the conclusion at the end of the article which I totally agree with:

Attacked by the Basij militia and the Revolutionary Guard, assaulted with water cannons and guns, Iranian Muslims, at least the ones who publicly call for fair elections and human rights, are being treated just like Bahais.

As I said, we're all humans and victims to religious cherto-pert fed to us by idiots who are victims themselves. The name of the religion makes little difference.

U got again emotional dude ..
but now u take it far let me reply ..

it takes u the yrs to understand bahai people , u and ur family took airplan and landed in this country without any problem ( perhabs ) u came in this country for better life and now with all due respcet if u really love country instead of typing right and left you should go back and join the people in street , i think me and u have NO RIGHt to comment about people brave mouvement in Iran ..
back to first part of topic yes u came for better life but for bahai people it was and it is the question of saving their life ..
when at school u cant eat next to ur freinds bcs u are Najes !
when ur parents lose their job and have no income to bring bread at home and help their family to eat and have to restart their life from zero
when they kill inocent bahai for nothing , bcs of simple fact she doesnt want convert and accoridng to these guys : khonesh halale !
when they put on fire ur store , when they ask people dont buy anything from this guy..
when u cant go to university but army is obligation and during army they hit u from back bcs bahai isnt suppos to defend his country
YES MY DEAR FREIND ,AMIGO , MON AMI SOROSUH!
BAHAI AFTER ALL THESE BECOME SENSETIVE TO THEIR BELEIF , SO EVEN A NOT RELIGIOUS ONE WILL DEFEND HIS BELEIF !
It is a question of Pride !

 

[Meehandoost]

I found BT's posts here quite funny and I think he is being misunderstood.

I don't find his comments funny at all. I don't think he is misunderstood either, rather has misplaced his anger and picked the wrong place to assert his opposition to past religious establishment.

 

[Babr]

I don't find his comments funny at all. I don't think he is misunderstood either, rather has misplaced his anger and picked the wrong place to assert his opposition to past religious establishment.

Anyway , as oldtimer here , i can say Soroush is a great guy ..

ama alan ye megdar Jav gir shode .. LOL

So i dont want go thorugh a fight

peace everyone ..

GO IRAN vA Irooni

 

[Meehandoost]

You're right dear; fighting is never a good thing. On a more related note, apparently the trial has been delayed again...very shameful to continue to hold them!

 

[joonevar22]

joonevar22 jaan,
You speak of partisan politics as if it has been a good thing. Furthermore, I am actually encouraged that the youth are NOT for "dava" as you say or violence and revenge in Iran, but peaceful solutions. As well, not to worry young friend, I have fought for Iran in my own ways possibly longer than you have lived, but we all have different capacities. How innocently naive and sweet to think that the struggle for freedom in Iran has started just now! No dear, read the recent history, particularly Qajar era and the influence of the Islamic clerics.

And finally as I said before, this thread is about the plight of Baha'is and in particular their entire leadership that has been kept captive without charge or access to legal counsel since over a year ago, following which all Baha'i religious activities were banned by the Islamic republic. I know that all religious minorities endure some hardship in Iran, but I was not aware that all their leadership were also taken into custody without charge and all their religious activities have been banned. If you are privy to such information, please share it, especially under its own dedicated thread. Your comments remind me of a certain "beauty" who also insisted to talk about all but Baha'is!

Are nokaretam dava if you want to seat and have a peacefully talk with them vaisa ta zire pat alaf dar biyad it aint happening.Peacefully hahahaha aslan engar to roya shomaha zendegi mikoni baba behet goftam ke dinet male khodeto kesai ke mesle khodet viewesh mikonam....aslan your comments are so dumb ke aslan khandam migire...peace baba harvaght tonesti onvan koni ke dinet behet ejazaro nemideh ke be mehanet komak koni then come and talk to me about religion.Am happy ke no religion runs my life chon be ghole bachetehrooni religion's are all crap hala mikhad bahai bashe ya muslim....its not 200 years ago amo ke dine bekhad zendegi adamo run kone....but then again am arguing with someone who is religious....mobarake dada har juri rahati.shoma be khair maham be salamat....va salam

 

[Bache Tehroon]

Mahbodjan,

I left this thread unanswered last night doubting myself and whether I was being rude. Went to bed, and came back this morning to read it over again.

I think the only people who got emotional under this thread were you and Meehandoost!

I simply stated my take on religion. You on the other hand said:

YES MY DEAR FREIND ,AMIGO , MON AMI SOROSUH!

BAHAI AFTER ALL THESE BECOME SENSETIVE TO THEIR BELEIF , SO EVEN A NOT RELIGIOUS ONE WILL DEFEND HIS BELEIF !

In CAPS! Who's being sensitive and emotional here?!

Meehandoost quotes me on:

I can't even count the Bahai friends I have and grown up with and I can tell you they're just like the rest of us. Been through religious bullshit that they mostly don't believe in. Hamamoon ye joorayee badbakhtim. Religion has kept us from realizing our true human potential. This applies to many Christians, Jews and Buddhists too.

I have first hand experience with Bahais and I find the majority of their religion's teachings just as shallow and useless as Islam's.

500 years from now, none of these religions will mean fuck all to most humans.

And say's:

The boldfaced parts seem to suggest that you are discounting Baha'i principles and condemning the Baha'is for their beliefs in very unflattering language dear.

Again, who's defending their belief with paranoia and emotions here?


I think as Farsi-Zabad said, I'm being hugely misunderstood here which again is not because I'm being vague, but because you and Meehandoost are being emotional.

I'm not sure if you're Bahai yourself, and I don't really care if you are. To me you're still the same doost-dashtani Mahbod that I've always known. I think overrating religion and overstating its importance is an unfortunate problem with many people who take offense in the slightest argument against their stance on religion.

If religion was indeed what it should be, an unadvertised personal relationship with God, I would be at fault here for bringing it up, however that's not the case and it's my utmost right to state what I think is the obvious about the shallowness and flawed nature of all religions. I didn't say this only applied to Bahaism. In every one of my posts here I insisted on naming other religions as well.

Sorry man, I was NOT being emotional! I promise

 

[Babr]

Mahbodjan,

I left this thread unanswered last night doubting myself and whether I was being rude. Went to bed, and came back this morning to read it over again.

I think the only people who got emotional under this thread were you and Meehandoost!

I simply stated my take on religion. You on the other hand said:


In CAPS! Who's being sensitive and emotional here?!

Meehandoost quotes me on:


And say's:


Again, who's defending their belief with paranoia and emotions here?


I think as Farsi-Zabad said, I'm being hugely misunderstood here which again is not because I'm being vague, but because you and Meehandoost are being emotional.

I'm not sure if you're Bahai yourself, and I don't really care if you are. To me you're still the same doost-dashtani Mahbod that I've always known. I think overrating religion and overstating its importance is an unfortunate problem with many people who take offense in the slightest argument against their stance on religion.

If religion was indeed what it should be, an unadvertised personal relationship with God, I would be at fault here for bringing it up, however that's not the case and it's my utmost right to state what I think is the obvious about the shallowness and flawed nature of all religions. I didn't say this only applied to Bahaism. In every one of my posts here I insisted on naming other religions as well.

Sorry man, I was NOT being emotional! I promise

Chakeram soroush jan ..

Well i may got at the end a bit angry .. i appologize if i offened u and u know me for many years here and i have respcet for u aziz ..

But i found it a bt unfair what u said about bahai situation in iran , i mean , mojahed jormesh ine mojahede , chapi jormesh in chapie , poor bahai people they just beleive on their faith , about extremist ,well there are in any relgion but in bahai in not in that extend and beleive me on this , i know some really religious bahai who u can go out with them and have fun ..
I respecet ur opinion that u dont beleive to any religion is ur right soroushe aziz .. as i always said in an ideal world everyone should be free to express his opnion , even people like ashtar , reza and no one should become sensetive , i know is easy to say and we all get emotional .. but honestly i didnt expect u how u attacked meehandost ..
i dont know him and with no mean i am defending him but from a educted guy like u i simply didnt expect that aziz jan

Life is in terrible situation for some bahai in Iran and it was worse in first couple years of revolution and all they ask is be able to have basic practice and activities like the rest of normal citizen in country , be able to work , go to university like every one .. unfortunally we wont probably see these things happen in our day ..
anyway i am by no mean try to give speech , but i just tell u as i said before if bahai no matter what insist on his beleif is bcs of all what happening in counrty..
i dont need to talk about bahai people , i let it to people who deal with them in everyday to judge .. but u dont hear much bad things about them..

anyway at the end i fully agree with u , with any religion , race , we are all citizen of this big world , and after all we are all Iranian ..
Chak
Mahbod

 

[Meehandoost]

Again, who's defending their belief with paranoia and emotions here?... I'm being hugely misunderstood here which again is not because I'm being vague, but because you and Meehandoost are being emotional.

I would be happy to defend the Baha'i faith and its beliefs, except that it shouldn't be necessary where I share the news of the persecution of its followers. Most Iranians have already understood that defending Baha'is right to hold their belief does not necessarily mean agreeing with them and many have taken the initiative to acknowledge their persecution and even apologize to have been indifferent as a nation. To choose to express one's dissatisfaction with religion which no doubt is the result of the Islamic republic - also responsible for the persecution of Baha'is - under a thread which shares this news with their compatriots is the wrong venue in my opinion.

 

[ibrahim]

I've read and reread this thread a couple of times in the last few days. Cant help but put my 2 cents in for what its worth.

I dont wanna get into a discussion about bahais, muslims, christians or any other religion here, but I dont care what your opinion is or your beliefs are, you should not allow yourself to disrespect other religions based on your own experiences. Faith and spirituality is the ultimate gift that god has given us and we should not disrespect it in anyway.

BT jan, I dont care agar bi dino imooni or you're a monk, never call other people's beliefs shallow and bullshit. Religion has been around for thousands of years before you and it will be around long after you're gone too bro.

Joonevar, your smug comments and a general lack of disrespect to others just shows what sort of personality you have. Your personal experiences with your ex wife should not and does not allow you to generalise the way you have, moshkeli dari boro ba zanet harf bezan, na biya inja and belittle the persecution that is happening to bahais right this moment.

chaaaak