Fuck Yeah!

shahinc

Legionnaire
May 8, 2005
6,745
1
#21
MohammadLin said:
I'd rather be happy if he doesn't help. If he supports any democratic move/action in Iran, this will be used to hammer that move, and could result in the end of that movement.
Dear Mohammad

I think the problem is here that due to our constitution, it is near to impossible to make any democratic changes that will lead to a democracy in Iran.

a minimum requirment for a society to reach a democratic stage is a democratic election. We don't even have that.

Khatami tried and he achived bare minimum in 8 years. If we want to move with the speed of Khatami's government toward democracy, it will be another 50-60 years before " maybe" we see a democratic Iran.
 

shahinc

Legionnaire
May 8, 2005
6,745
1
#22
arashinho said:
everyone seems to forget that khomeini did most of his damage to the shah from OUTSIDE of iran too. as others have mentioned RP's gegraphical location isn't the problem. it's the lack of vision (and balls) that are the issue. he is not speaking to the majority of iranians. if he was then he would have more support.
yes, but he did have the support of people inside. This is why I was hoping that Mr.Ganji had escaped the country :)

we need leaders like him who have the respect of inside but move outside of the country.
 

Bijans

Legionnaire
Oct 18, 2002
6,654
3
San Diego, CA
#23
Iranpaak said:
Agha Bijan, I do not know who Siamack is, but we all know who RP is; my point is that Siamack has not claimed to be a political leader, RP has.

Agha Iranpaak,

In a free society where people are free to express their ideas and feelings there should be enough tolerance to accept other opinions no matter how much it differs from your own.

As far as I know RP is being judged based on his Dad's mistakes and nothing more. Nobody takes the good side of what his had and his grandfather did for Iran.. we all want to remember the negatives...

Again.. you don't have to agree with RP or any other so called " political" leader in a free society.. If you do then it is your choice.. but you certainly can't decide for somebody else and criticize somebody based on your political views... in this case RP for not being in Iran ... "Siamack" hasn't done anything himself.

BR,

Bijan
 
Oct 18, 2002
11,593
3
#24
Dear Bijan,

Siamack Baniameri is a satirist who writes in Iranian.com. He makes a good point that if Reza Pahlavi wants to be a true leader of opposition, he should go to Iran. This is not about judging him based on his dad's history.

Baniameri himself does not have any claim to political leadership. So your comparison is meaningless.

and you calling his piece "pure BS" speaks more about your level of intelligence than him.
 
Oct 20, 2003
9,345
1
#25
Bijan aziz, on your first point, I cannot agree with you more. With regard to your second point, I have a mixed feelings. True you cannot judge a son for what his father has done, but maybe you can judge a person by the type of people one socializes with, receives advice from and is basically surrounded by.
My point again is when someone claims political leadership role, one opens up himself to judgement and criticism, Siamack may not have done anything himself, as many of us here, nevertheless, he is entitle to his opinion as an Iranian.
 

shahinc

Legionnaire
May 8, 2005
6,745
1
#27
deerouz said:
It is not a bad idea. Baniameri explains why:

"He will not be executed by IRI since the international pressure by his neocon friends will be too great and consequences too devastating for the ayatollahs to do him any harm.


He will be executed before he can even say the word execuation. " pressure" from his firends. Since when the pressure on I.R. worked !!!!!!

If RP goes to Iran is like him commiting a sucied.
Inside Evin he can learn what hardship and torment is; that builds character; that separates men from boys. He also can show the world and most importantly Iranians inside the country that expats are more than a group of BMW-driving, rambling idiots who live in comfortable million dollar homes and plan for freedom and democracy in Iran over a drink of scotch and Cuban cigars.

Great men have moved Iranians throughout history. Men such as Ghaem Magham Farahani, Amir Kabir, Mossadegh, Kasravi, Takhti or even the Ayatollah. These men moved us by what they did not by shooting slogans over airwaves via satellite television. They moved us by getting down and dirty with no regards for their lives and respect for their well-being."
Perhaps Evin could make a true leader out of him.
I take the rest as a joke. Evin is no joke and it is the worst place to be.
I think this pice was just trying to be comical and entertaining and has no political and intellectual value.

even he does not get executed, he will be in Evin for next 20 years :)
Aghayon don't forget who you are dealing with. It has not been a year since they just killed canadian woman journalist in IRAN and despit all the pressure from canadian government and the family they bauried the body in 2 days.
 

anoush

Bench Warmer
Aug 14, 2004
1,476
0
35
#28
Baniameri is a satirist and all and his main focus is comedy (if you haven't read the Iranican dream u must, it's better than all that crap being written by cosmopolitan don't-consider-myself-iranian-but-then-again-not-american women in cali.)

But the article does bring up some points that don't come up on normal journalistic agendas where they accept how it is etc....

If reza truly cares about Iran that much , fly back and be forced to sit in a cell with the political prisoners who have solidarity.

Akbar Ganji is apparently on the verge of death, his daughters educational careers have been ruined (her older one was about to sit konkoor but was unable to thinking of her father wasting away in the dungeons of the regime)

I've said it before, I'll say it again - Ganji is a true hero for Iranian people, stop wasting your time waiting for the light of the arya race to be shone across Iran and we once again become an imperial superpower ---
 

shahinc

Legionnaire
May 8, 2005
6,745
1
#29
anoush said:
Akbar Ganji is apparently on the verge of death, his daughters educational careers have been ruined (her older one was about to sit konkoor but was unable to thinking of her father wasting away in the dungeons of the regime)

I've said it before, I'll say it again - Ganji is a true hero for Iranian people, stop wasting your time waiting for the light of the arya race to be shone across Iran and we once again become an imperial superpower ---

In my opinion,
Anoush Jan, What is the point and use the hero like Ganji is sitting in jail cell.

Don't you think, if Ganji could escape the jail and come to country like canada or US, his voice can be heard louder.
He can giud our people much better from democratic country than being ina cell in Evin.

I just feel like Ganji is like a burning Candel who is going to waste inside Evin.

to fight this regime does not require the fighters go to Iran and give themself to the I.R. Jalads and spent the rest of their lives in jail and get tortured.
 
Oct 18, 2002
11,593
3
#30
shahinc said:
He will be executed before he can even say the word execuation. " pressure" from his firends. Since when the pressure on I.R. worked !!!!!!

If RP goes to Iran is like him commiting a sucied.

I take the rest as a joke. Evin is no joke and it is the worst place to be.
I think this pice was just trying to be comical and entertaining and has no political and intellectual value.

even he does not get executed, he will be in Evin for next 20 years :)
Aghayon don't forget who you are dealing with. It has not been a year since they just killed canadian woman journalist in IRAN and despit all the pressure from canadian government and the family they bauried the body in 2 days.
Shahin jan, Kazemi was killed because nobody knew her. If Amanpour was taking pictures from Evin prison, they would not have even arrested her. The Iranian regime may be evil, but certainly not stupid. They would never execute Reza Pahlavi.

It is true that Baniameri is a satirist, but that article from him was an opinion piece, not satire. I think he makes sense. You argue that Ganji could have been much more useful outside of prison. But I ask, would he? Hundreds of Iranian poliotical activists, many with stronger commitments and convictions than Ganji and Zarafshan left Iran and continued to fight from abroad. What have they achieved?

Faraj Sarkouhi was a hero in Iran. His story shook the regime to its core. then he fled to abroad and at once became an unknown among unknowns. Nobody even reads his statements anymore. The voices of Ganji and Zarafshan have reflections exactly because it is heard from Iran and from Evin's prison, not from Canada and Germany.

But the question is not Ganji, rather Reza Pahlavi. The author correctly points out that RP's leadership has been under question from the beginning, and his suggestion that he goes back to Iran to lead the fight makes sense. There would be dangers to his life and hardships, but that's what true leaders do all the time. You think that he will be wasted if he goes to Iran, but isn't he already a waste now? What does his everydays political statements, interviews, even hunger strikes achieve?

In BaniAmeri's words: "He also can show the world and most importantly Iranians inside the country that expats are more than a group of BMW-driving, rambling idiots who live in comfortable million dollar homes and plan for freedom and democracy in Iran over a drink of scotch and Cuban cigars."

People of Iran now correctly refuse to follow opposition leaders, precisely because they do not want others who are sitting in comfort in Euroe and US telling them to sacrifice their lives against the islamic republic. But who knows what would happen if Reza Pahlavi goes back and goes to jail in Iran? Who knows what would be people's reaction?
 

shahinc

Legionnaire
May 8, 2005
6,745
1
#31
deerouz said:
But the question is not Ganji, rather Reza Pahlavi. The author correctly points out that RP's leadership has been under question from the beginning, and his suggestion that he goes back to Iran to lead the fight makes sense. There would be dangers to his life and hardships, but that's what true leaders do all the time. You think that he will be wasted if he goes to Iran, but isn't he already a waste now? What does his everydays political statements, interviews, even hunger strikes achieve?

In BaniAmeri's words: "He also can show the world and most importantly Iranians inside the country that expats are more than a group of BMW-driving, rambling idiots who live in comfortable million dollar homes and plan for freedom and democracy in Iran over a drink of scotch and Cuban cigars."

People of Iran now correctly refuse to follow opposition leaders, precisely because they do not want others who are sitting in comfort in Euroe and US telling them to sacrifice their lives against the islamic republic. But who knows what would happen if Reza Pahlavi goes back and goes to jail in Iran? Who knows what would be people's reaction?
Deerouz Jan, you got some good point and they make sense just because RP is not doing anything useful and good in this side. If he was achiving anything here then I would have disagreed with you. I generally think the RP has not step up to the plate and take charge in his movement. there are many questions about his leadership abilities.

Your post is very logical but at the sametime I expect anything from this regime.So I wn't be shocked if they jail him and then kill him in jail due to accident or some other inmate and bal blah blah

I have no answer the political figures loss their popularity when they move outside Iran !!!! Khomeyni did not loss his power??!! What is the difference here, I do not know.
 

tajrish

Elite Member
Oct 18, 2002
3,037
197
57
San Diego, California
#32
First of all the title of this thread is very offensive and I don't understand why the admins allow such threads with this kind of titles to be freely posted with no consequence.

Secondly, one got to be either extremly stupid or completely out of touch with reality to pull of such stunt like going back to Iran and try to save the country from a prison cell. The logic that the writer presents is as good as his understanding of the person he is trying to convince.

Thirdly, even if RP manages to avoid the dead penalty, I highly doubt if his voice or actions are going to be spread anywhere outside Evin.

I am just baffled with these sort of logics and wonder what good it serves our already divided nation.

Baba for one moment read or listen to what RP has always claimed: Peaceful changes through peaceful actions.
 
Oct 18, 2002
11,593
3
#33
shahinc said:
I have no answer the political figures loss their popularity when they move outside Iran !!!! Khomeyni did not loss his power??!! What is the difference here, I do not know.
That's an interesting question. I think one answer could be that the success of the Iranian revolution was mainly due to smartness and organizational and political skills of certain figures who were working inside Iran, not abroad. Khomeini was mainly the figurehead of the movement, but a group of people were doing the actual work. Most important among them, Dr. Beheshti and Motahari.

Beheshti's office was responsible for directing and coordinating demonstrations and workers strikes, linking thousands of mosques across the country, and bringing influential clerics in each province on board. He was an organizational genius who showed his skills in creating the IR party immediately after the revolution, Historians have correctly labeled him "the engine of the 1979 revolution".

At the same time, Motahari as a respected scholar and university professor, was instrumental in bringing various religious, nationalist and even secular groups under the same umbrella. Without Motahari, it would have been impossible to get Bazargan's freedom movement and Sanjabi's Jebheh Meli to agree to Khomeini's leadership. Motahari had even successfully managed to get Bakhtiar to agree to a refrendum to remove the Shah's regime, but the plan collapsed when some radical clerics (montazeri and Rabbani) convinced Khomeini to reject it.

It is no surprise that Motahari and Beheshti were both assassinated in the first two years of the revolution. Their formidable presence could have changed the power equations at that time (and not necessarily for better).
 

Bijans

Legionnaire
Oct 18, 2002
6,654
3
San Diego, CA
#35
tajrish said:
First of all the title of this thread is very offensive and I don't understand why the admins allow such threads with this kind of titles to be freely posted with no consequence.

Secondly, one got to be either extremly stupid or completely out of touch with reality to pull of such stunt like going back to Iran and try to save the country from a prison cell. The logic that the writer presents is as good as his understanding of the person he is trying to convince.

Thirdly, even if RP manages to avoid the dead penalty, I highly doubt if his voice or actions are going to be spread anywhere outside Evin.

I am just baffled with these sort of logics and wonder what good it serves our already divided nation.

Baba for one moment read or listen to what RP has always claimed: Peaceful changes through peaceful actions.
ghorboone har chi Adame chiz fahme.. man ke goftam behem goftand it shows your level on intelligence!

Mardom neshastand paye goud migand lengesh kon...they are expecting a "karim khan-e Zand" from RP but judging him like he has already done everything wrong. The poor guy is paying for his father's mistakes...

rasti, Kojaai amoo?

Bijan
 

tajrish

Elite Member
Oct 18, 2002
3,037
197
57
San Diego, California
#37
Bijans said:
they are expecting a "karim khan-e Zand" from RP but judging him like he has already done everything wrong.
Damet garm ke zadi too khal amoo.

Some people would never lose an opportunity to bring this guy down. Like it or not, there are several people in opposition to the IR who believe that RP is a good solution, yet his opponent sound more and more like the IR supporters and would not hesitate to blame anything on him.

Baba let go of your anger (warranted or not warranted) of the past and think for a second. RP has never claimed the throne and has always been the spokesperson for the free democratic election. Stop this personal witch hunt and get on with your life. There are more important issues to tackle and more eminent dangers surrounding our country yet all these people are coming up with is "RP this or RP that". GIVE ME A FREAKING BREAK.
 
Dec 12, 2002
8,517
1
usa
#39
Nilou jan ,the author obvoisly is a hezbolahee ,no doubt about it .
westi ,exactlly ,he has been surrounding by bunch of shaholaee who are as bad as hezbolahee .the people who fu--ed his father and now his son .
btw, shah shouldn't had left iran , he knew he has a year or 2 to die .
he was inferoir to british and americans .
he should had not complied with tachter and carter .
shah should had stayed and died in iran .
 

java1010

Football Fan
Mar 30, 2005
17
0
39
Montreal, Canada
#40
anoush said:
If reza truly cares about Iran that much , fly back and be forced to sit in a cell with the political prisoners who have solidarity.

Akbar Ganji is apparently on the verge of death, his daughters educational careers have been ruined (her older one was about to sit konkoor but was unable to thinking of her father wasting away in the dungeons of the regime)

I've said it before, I'll say it again - Ganji is a true hero for Iranian people, stop wasting your time waiting for the light of the arya race to be shone across Iran and we once again become an imperial superpower ---
Thank you...
People like Ganji are deffinetly the true heroes!
Let me tell you, that I have great hounour and respect for people like Ganji fighting from within the country.
I wish that everyone on the outside could put their money where their mouth is much like people from within. You can talk the talk but you also have to walk the walk...
It is very easy to command people to go out, start a revolution and for them to get captured/beaten/tortured/killed; all this while comfortably sitting on your couch in LA.
I am not saying this about RP in specific but it is rather a criticism on the LA media and the expat opposition groups.

@ Shahinc

shahinc said:
In my opinion,
Anoush Jan, What is the point and use the hero like Ganji is sitting in jail cell.

Don't you think, if Ganji could escape the jail and come to country like canada or US, his voice can be heard louder.
He can giud our people much better from democratic country than being ina cell in Evin.

I just feel like Ganji is like a burning Candel who is going to waste inside Evin.

to fight this regime does not require the fighters go to Iran and give themself to the I.R. Jalads and spent the rest of their lives in jail and get tortured.
Look at what Ganji and others like him have done from within a jail cell...
It certainly takes some massive balls; something that others here in the west may be lacking of.
The movement that has started from within certainly needs more people like him staying back and fighting from within. If not it would be a movement that would be extinguished and crushed very easily.
I don't beleive that Ganji is a "Candel who is going to waste" yet I beleive that he has actually sacrificed himself for his country and for a better cause...

shahinc said:
I have no answer the political figures loss their popularity when they move outside Iran !!!! Khomeyni did not loss his power??!! What is the difference here, I do not know.
The problem here is that expat oposition forces outside of the country have lost most of their credibility with the mass population of Iran.
Certainly people like HAKHA on the LA medias don't help it either...
Quite frankly people inside Iran do not place alot of importance on the external opposition and quite frankly do not view them as a real alternative.
I remember a time before I left Iran and before the begining of the current wave of movements from within that when people talked about an alternative to the regime there was no real candidate as a replacement or to at least get something started and going...
Now that the wheels are in motion and that we have people like Ganji fighting from within, we have to route for them and rally behind them for they are the true and real heroes.