Health care bill passed!!!!

Mahdi

Well-known member
Jan 1, 1970
6,982
484
Mjunik
#61
That may be. Nevertheless the right way to improve the situation is not to take more freedom away to restore the balance, i.e. less freedom for both sides as dictated by government. The right way is to restore freedom: bargaining power to the one side that has lost it through laws.

Instead of moving from a special-interest welfare system, the current system, towards a socialist system, the right way is to move towards a free market system.

If you ask anyone who actually has truly experienced socialist medicine, you will find out that they hate it and know how bad it is.

2000 pages of law are not needed. A few simple changes to remove laws that are special interest welfare would do marvels.

Yes, I really hate it. All my life I was insured, could go and see the doctors whenever I had a problem, if something happened and I had to go to the hospital, everything was taken care of, I got the best medical treatment with basic student insurance cover of 10€ a month and I didn't need to worry at all. Yes, we all hate socialist medicine. Same as people in Sweden, Denmark, France, Germany. It's really the worst thing ever to be covered.

Instead, we should just believe in God and God's system of freedom and everything will be taken care of.
 
Last edited:
Jun 14, 2005
11,261
0
Suisse
#62
That may be. Nevertheless the right way to improve the situation is not to take more freedom away to restore the balance, i.e. less freedom for both sides as dictated by government. The right way is to restore freedom: bargaining power to the one side that has lost it through laws.

Instead of moving from a special-interest welfare system, the current system, towards a socialist system, the right way is to move towards a free market system.

If you ask anyone who actually has truly experienced socialist medicine, you will find out that they hate it and know how bad it is.

2000 pages of law are not needed. A few simple changes to remove laws that are special interest welfare would do marvels.
I tried hard but just couldnt find a point in your post. What do you mean with restore freedom? Are you living in a dictatorship? What do you mean with socialist medicine? I mean screw the soviet system but their medical system was not bad at all. Cuba as example had and still has a very high health care standard. Their doctors are well educated. Maybe i am missing something but i simply dont understand what you mean by social medicine and i dont see how its so bad.

The other point is: What do you mean with free market system in regards of healthcare?! Correct me if i am wrong but what you suggest is to jeopardize peoples lives and health, to open up everything, to create even more competition, make sure more money can be made on the back of people who are need of medical treatment? Is this what you mean? Yani injaa ham ghaanoone jangal? Too siaasato, eghtesaad bas nabood, behdaashto behzist ham beshe "business"? Now who should benefit from this "free market system" you suggest? New lobbies? Pharma companies?


When are you guys willing to understand that this "free market" stuff you talk about has to be controlled into a certain extent to keep the balance in society? I mean if you are a fan of Darwinism then just say so and i am finished with this thread, if you think the strongest should still eat up the weaker like its common among most primitive animals, then fair enough and i appologize for taking part in this discussion but if not, then you should accept there is no way to create a well balanced society if you are not willing to limit the power of "free market" because traditionally free markets dont know any limitation. Its their nature, their goal is to get the most out of it and this attitude is not gonna benefit the society as the masses are still not able to protect themselves against this kind of exploitation. I say screw the soviet system all in all its been all about dictatorship and over protectionism but one really has to consider the western and north european system as the best of all times. France has the best healthcare system in the world, as long as i was insured in Germany i thought it was the best, now due to my job i have an odd kind of insurance a mixture of german and french and from what i am experiencing, the french system is even better than the german one. You basically pay absolutely nothing for anything over here. The english, swedes, danes... they all are providing high profile healthcare to their people.

Now i ask you, why should they move towards a "free market"? To cut their efforts? to make people pay more for their healthcare insurance? Khob aakharesh chi? Ke chaartaa angal ye gooshe too ye daftar bishinan pool beshmoran?
 

Mahdi

Well-known member
Jan 1, 1970
6,982
484
Mjunik
#63
I don't understand the big issue.

Free market, everyone competing, yadayada, all nice, but if we take the free market, then patients with lots of illnesses and health problems will be treated like say junk bonds or people with bad credit and will either not get any insurance at all or even if, have to pay more than they can ever afford.
A basic coverage for all people so that they don't have to worry when they get ill is common sense and should be existing in any respectable society.
Apart of that, well to each his own.

The fact that a two tier system allows some to get better health coverage than others, life's a bitch. There are also people driving better cars. Still better than no coverage.

Huge step by Obama and Democrats. But obviously the guy is only about talk and can't walk the walk ;)
 
Oct 18, 2002
6,139
0
Los Angeles, CA USA
#64
I don't understand the big issue.

Free market, everyone competing, yadayada, all nice, but if we take the free market, then patients with lots of illnesses and health problems will be treated like say junk bonds or people with bad credit and will either not get any insurance at all or even if, have to pay more than they can ever afford.
A basic coverage for all people so that they don't have to worry when they get ill is common sense and should be existing in any respectable society.
Apart of that, well to each his own.

The fact that a two tier system allows some to get better health coverage than others, life's a bitch. There are also people driving better cars. Still better than no coverage.

Huge step by Obama and Democrats. But obviously the guy is only about talk and can't walk the walk ;)
This was the point I was trying to make earlier... Your words are much better than mine.
 
Jun 7, 2004
3,196
0
#65
Yes, I really hate it. All my life I was insured, could go and see the doctors whenever I had a problem, if something happened and I had to go to the hospital, everything was taken care of, I got the best medical treatment with basic student insurance cover of 20€ a month and I didn't need to worry at all. Yes, we all hate socialist medicine. Same as people in Sweden, Denmark, France, Germany. It's really the worst thing ever to be covered.

Instead, we should just believe in God and God's system of freedom and everything will be taken care of.
All your life would be what, a grand total of 20 some years :). If and when you have a serious illness and made to wait then we will see if you really are that happy.

Yes, for your own good it would be better if you believed in God alone, no god but the one god. Yes for your own good and the good of other people it would be better if you trusted God and his system of freedom so that you would not justify stealing from others.
 

Mahdi

Well-known member
Jan 1, 1970
6,982
484
Mjunik
#66
All your life would be what, a grand total of 20 some years :). If and when you have a serious illness and made to wait then we will see if you really are that happy.
1) You can always get private insurance cover. The public option is exactly that, an option for people who for whatever reason can't afford anything else or wouldn't get any other insurance cover. With a private cover you don't have to wait at all. Works just like everywhere else. ;)

2) If you have a serious illness, you will not get insurance in the first place under your free market model, because the risk of "default" is too high genius. LOL

Yes, for your own good it would be better if you believed in God alone, no god but the one god. Yes for your own good and the good of other people it would be better if you trusted God and his system of freedom so that you would not justify stealing from others.
Thanks. I prefer to believe in Tom Izzo.
 
Jun 14, 2005
11,261
0
Suisse
#67
All your life would be what, a grand total of 20 some years :). If and when you have a serious illness and made to wait then we will see if you really are that happy.

Yes, for your own good it would be better if you believed in God alone, no god but the one god. Yes for your own good and the good of other people it would be better if you trusted God and his system of freedom so that you would not justify stealing from others.
I have come across alot of ridiculous stuff recently but this one really cracks the jackpot.
 
Jun 7, 2004
3,196
0
#68
Plus, while increasing bargaining power works in a perfect world, there are some consumers that are "uninsurable" in any free market system. Someone with cancer or AIDS has to be absorbed or packaged socially, or else they will be left to die. Its a hard choice, but one that must be taken against a perfect free market system.
It does work under any circumstance, past, present or the future. The insurance situation makes no difference than buying bread. If people had sufficient bargaining power, i.e. there were sufficient competition among insurers, then they would have to offer plans that people would not walk away from. A future of this plan may be that they could not drop you if you developed a serious illness or that a child of yours that was born with a serious illness would be covered. The point is that the people who are actually paying for the service would have to work it out with the person providing the service and if they are free to bargain they will work out by far and away the most innovative and best method in comparison to a third party, i.e. the government officials, who neither have a vested interested in the consumer nor accountability in the expenditure, and have zero ability to designing a macro solution.

The point that you may not be considering is that there is a cost to covering someone with cancer. If you force the socialist system to cover it, then the cost is by force stolen from some other person. In reality the cost in lives of doing so is greater than the cost in saving lives. But since it is far removed you do not see it. The way it would work is that since there isn't an infinite pool of resources or money, to cover the cancer patients that you say is uninsurable then you will be forced to make other healthier patients who need care to wait and as a result you cause many more deaths than you save lives, you would steal, and force injustice of your own onto people.

Finally, yes, government must have a pool of money to help with people who happen to be less fortunate. This comes from money it gets from the air, literally as I had explained in other posts. In addition I am sure there would be many charitable organization that would be helping people who are less insurance without the need to steal.
 
Oct 18, 2002
6,139
0
Los Angeles, CA USA
#69
It does work under any circumstance, past, present or the future. The insurance situation makes no difference than buying bread. If people had sufficient bargaining power, i.e. there were sufficient competition among insurers, then they would have to offer plans that people would not walk away from. A future of this plan may be that they could not drop you if you developed a serious illness or that a child of yours that was born with a serious illness would be covered. The point is that the people who are actually paying for the service would have to work it out with the person providing the service and if they are free to bargain they will work out by far and away the most innovative and best method in comparison to a third party, i.e. the government officials, who neither have a vested interested in the consumer nor accountability in the expenditure, and have zero ability to designing a macro solution.

The point that you may not be considering is that there is a cost to covering someone with cancer. If you force the socialist system to cover it, then the cost is by force stolen from some other person. In reality the cost in lives of doing so is greater than the cost in saving lives. But since it is far removed you do not see it. The way it would work is that since there isn't an infinite pool of resources or money, to cover the cancer patients that you say is uninsurable then you will be forced to make other healthier patients who need care to wait and as a result you cause many more deaths than you save lives, you would steal, and force injustice of your own onto people.

Finally, yes, government must have a pool of money to help with people who happen to be less fortunate. This comes from money it gets from the air, literally as I had explained in other posts. In addition I am sure there would be many charitable organization that would be helping people who are less insurance without the need to steal.
LOL. Ok now youve gone off the deep end. Taxes pay for the social welfare of all where individual payments are not feasible or economical. Things like roads, police, fire, and now health. How you equate the latter with stealing is rather convenient to your reasoning as it is not made for the others mentioned...

The free market would not work here. No amount of bargaining power would allow this business model to exist without the role of government. In the long run the money has to come from somewhere and these are your options:

1. Doctors - Wont happen in America, doctors have made way too much for way too long. This would force the industry to crash and mass doctors leave the industry.

2. People - Already the cost of Healthcare is pushing people into bankruptcy and is leaving millions uninsured.

3. Insurance Companies - Here is the answer, but I do not believe a for profit model will work. The amount of regulation needed to protect the consumer and create any type of so called bargaining power would be tantamount to a gov't take over anyway, might as well get rid of the formality...
 
Oct 18, 2002
12,062
6
here
www.apfn.org
#70
I Agree with Tajrish jaan;

This bill looks good on surface but like the other bills which has 100% zionist bastards backing (like patriot act which has made USA look like the west bank now) has stuff in it which is disasterous.
I trust only Ron Paul in politics and when he says its bad I believe it to be really bad.

It is common sense anyway since the european zionist take over of usa (1913) the Ameridca has taken a nose dive into disaster. while the zionist-owned media paint a beautiful picture (with their best democracy BS etc.) and try to mask the stinch of this filthy zionist-infested government the tuth is very ugly and is slowly coming out.

So the rule of thumb is unless and until the Americans wake up and kick these anti-American/Anti-Human bastards to bottom of hell there will Never be anything good coming out of washington or any other place in the world.(period)!

Please shut that damn TV off and stop the evil from entering your homes/minds.
 

Natural

IPL Player
May 18, 2003
2,559
3
#71
This bill looks good on surface but like the other bills which has 100% zionist bastards backing (like patriot act which has made USA look like the west bank now) has stuff in it which is disasterous.

LOL

Definitely sounds like AN.
 
Oct 18, 2002
12,062
6
here
www.apfn.org
#72
Natural jaan;

valla be khoda it is not as pretty as it seems, do you know that even you have a FILE and a PROFILE with/in FBI? (that is if you live in USA)? But they are PROFILing everyone.
they use the heads of businesses in every town to SPY on citizens and find out what they THINK!!! whether it is to listen in to your phone conversations or reading your emails etc. they are doing it as we speak.
these subhuman inbred bastards are sick. their cure is only death just like a cancerous tumor...
 
Oct 18, 2002
6,139
0
Los Angeles, CA USA
#73
I Agree with Tajrish jaan;

I trust only Ron Paul in politics and when he says its bad I believe it to be really bad.
Glad you can think for yourself... :rolleyes:

Natural jaan;

valla be khoda it is not as pretty as it seems, do you know that even you have a FILE and a PROFILE with/in FBI? (that is if you live in USA)? But they are PROFILing everyone.
they use the heads of businesses in every town to SPY on citizens and find out what they THINK!!! whether it is to listen in to your phone conversations or reading your emails etc. they are doing it as we speak.
these subhuman inbred bastards are sick. their cure is only death just like a cancerous tumor...
Just. Wow. Forget about the legal ramifications, do you understand the type of manpower and infrastructure this would require? The amount of loose ends that would need to be cut off daily? Come on man...
 

masoudA

Legionnaire
Oct 16, 2008
6,161
11
#74
Honestly youre an idiot.
Honestly - you have been raised in a tavileh.

I don't know what the Admin situation is on this board - but I am sorry to see a bi pedar madar like ADC even being considered as a mod here. In another thread he called me an asshole - it still stands, yet the Admin edited my response in calling him a smart-ass.
Is this ISP's definition of a fresh start? I know with his several user ID's and names he is trying to get me banned - but ISP admins behavior is just shameful.
 
Jun 14, 2005
11,261
0
Suisse
#75
I never had an issue with Farbod so far but i can tell you you are right generally. There never been a fresh start. The same old party bazi o ghodrat namaai o doost baazi is still ruling here. I can show a post which i got an infraction for yesterday you would laugh your ass off about how this could be worth an infraction and other people are free to say whatever they want and their stuff dont even get edited. Hey after all we are all hamvatan hambastegiye melli yaadet nare lol
 

Kian Pars

Bench Warmer
Dec 9, 2005
1,854
90
#76
Every time we start to have a discussion in this forum, we end up with FOHSH-O-TOHIN
to each other. Honestly, Idiot and Tavileh doesn't belong in a discussion.
If you think you opinion is better than other's, keep it to yourself.
 

Natural

IPL Player
May 18, 2003
2,559
3
#78
I'm still wondering where Masoud got the below information from. specially the last part of the statement.

I wonder if he used his vision and experience coupled with his third degree equation skills that he claimed he has to come up with it.

2- This Bill will reduce the overall Quality of healthcare for the 176 million who currently have insurance. In order for me to keep the current quality of service in the future I will have to pay twice to buy the so called "Cadillac Plan".
 
Last edited:

Sabzi

Bench Warmer
Oct 18, 2002
2,157
0
#80
I never had an issue with Farbod so far but i can tell you you are right generally. There never been a fresh start. The same old party bazi o ghodrat namaai o doost baazi is still ruling here. I can show a post which i got an infraction for yesterday you would laugh your ass off about how this could be worth an infraction and other people are free to say whatever they want and their stuff dont even get edited. Hey after all we are all hamvatan hambastegiye melli yaadet nare lol
Hey buddy, I have forwarded the "nice" pm you sent me, to ISP Admin.
Nice, huh? Still laughing your ass off?
2 points awarded for trolling. - ISP Admin