Help me understand the IR government..

[Makaveli]

First of all, I think its safe to say that we have no IR fans here so please lets cut with the smartass comments. Thanks in advance.

Now, I had this arguement with a friend who was trying to convince me that the IR government in a sense is a democracy although not a perfect one by any stretch. Is there any truth to this?

Some specific questions I have:

1. Can you directly vote in people on the city and/or state level? Or how exactly does that work?

2. The supreme leader; how does he get the job? From my understanding each supreme leader appoints the next, and the Guardian Council has some say on the matter? and since the Guardian Council is composed of 12 members, 6 of which are directly elected, than it is somewhat democratic.

3. We often hear that the Presidency is symbolic. Is this true and what powers does the President exactly have? how does his powers compare to that of the Supreme leader?

4. How are members of the parliament elected? Is the parliament democratic?

5. Who picks the people that get to run for president? and on what basis are they disqualified? Is it true that the reformers werent allowed to run last election because as far as I can remember there were 2 or 3 reformer candidates.

Anyway, just a few questions I had if anyone knows the answer to any of them id appreciate it...

 

[Messi]

First of all, I think its safe to say that we have no IR fans here so please lets cut with the smartass comments. Thanks in advance.

Now, I had this arguement with a friend who was trying to convince me that the IR government in a sense is a democracy although not a perfect one by any stretch. Is there any truth to this?

Some specific questions I have:

1. Can you directly vote in people on the city and/or state level? Or how exactly does that work?

2. The supreme leader; how does he get the job? From my understanding each supreme leader appoints the next, and the Guardian Council has some say on the matter? and since the Guardian Council is composed of 12 members, 6 of which are directly elected, than it is somewhat democratic.

3. We often hear that the Presidency is symbolic. Is this true and what powers does the President exactly have? how does his powers compare to that of the Supreme leader?

4. How are members of the parliament elected? Is the parliament democratic?

5. Who picks the people that get to run for president? and on what basis are they disqualified? Is it true that the reformers werent allowed to run last election because as far as I can remember there were 2 or 3 reformer candidates.

Anyway, just a few questions I had if anyone knows the answer to any of them id appreciate it...

I am not sure how IR system works...but I'lll try to answer as best as i can.

1. If you mean local elections...yes, there are local election in Iran for the city's council....anyone can register, but the candidtaes will be banned if their policies are not IR approved, which isn't really a functioning democracy.

2. The supreme leader is chosen by "majlese khobregan" i think.....which is a majlis of Rohanis/Akhonds who choose the supreme leader. I think the supreme leader names a candidate, and the guardian council will approve/disapprove. I'm not sure.

3. The president has powers of chosing the minsiters, which is alot of power, but he has limited power. For example, AN can not wake up tomrrow and say he wants to ban chadors, because it is against the IR constituation and the supreme leaders ideology.

4. I don't know....

5. to my understanding each party picks a memebr who can run for presidency, but since IR is a flawed democracy, many of these candidates automatically get banned. Other won't even dare to run.
yes, it is true, many reformist candidates were banned by the likes of akhond jannati, also many reformist candidates for the parliament were banned by jannati and his useless council.


Tbh I have heard many journalsits/intellectuals argue that IR, is in fact a democracy. It does have features that resemble a democracy, and it's structure is similar to that of a democracy.....but corruption/screwed up ideologies stop it from being a democracy. For example, jannati banning any candidate he wants, and Khamenei doing the presidents job as a politician and not allowing relaions with US/Women in stadiums...etc.
But IMO if Iran is to be a democracy we will just have to let time take its course. The IR system does have features of a democracy, and they will have to change sooner or later.....simply because people are distancing themsleves from IR. But IMO the only way Iran will be fixed is just letting it be...no war, no revolution, no coupes....
any change must come from within.

 

[Makaveli]

I am not sure how IR system works...but I'lll try to answer as best as i can.

1. If you mean local elections...yes, there are local election in Iran for the city's council....anyone can register, but the candidtaes will be banned if their policies are not IR approved, which isn't really a functioning democracy.

2. The supreme leader is chosen by "majlese khobregan" i think.....which is a majlis of Rohanis/Akhonds who choose the supreme leader. I think the supreme leader names a candidate, and the guardian council will approve/disapprove. I'm not sure.

3. The president has powers of chosing the minsiters, which is alot of power, but he has limited power. For example, AN can not wake up tomrrow and say he wants to ban chadors, because it is against the IR constituation and the supreme leaders ideology.

4. I don't know....

5. to my understanding each party picks a memebr who can run for presidency, but since IR is a flawed democracy, many of these candidates automatically get banned. Other won't even dare to run.
yes, it is true, many reformist candidates were banned by the likes of akhond jannati, also many reformist candidates for the parliament were banned by jannati and his useless council.


Tbh I have heard many journalsits/intellectuals argue that IR, is in fact a democracy. It does have features that resemble a democracy, and it's structure is similar to that of a democracy.....but corruption/screwed up ideologies stop it from being a democracy. For example, jannati banning any candidate he wants, and Khamenei doing the presidents job as a politician and not allowing relaions with US/Women in stadiums...etc.
But IMO if Iran is to be a democracy we will just have to let time take its course. The IR system does have features of a democracy, and they will have to change sooner or later.....simply because people are distancing themsleves from IR. But IMO the only way Iran will be fixed is just letting it be...no war, no revolution, no coupes....
any change must come from within.

Interesting feedback Messi, much appreciated.

1. So now I wonder, who exactly decides if the candidates policies are approved?
2. Im curious, so does Khamenei for example pick the next supreme leader secretly right now, or when? Does his term run out when he dies or is he supposed to resign at some point?
3. -
4. -
5. I was under the impression that there were no political parties in Iran.

And on your last point, ive also heard people from within the regime argue that IR is a religious democracy. Im probably wrong in this, but I think Khameneis roll although officialy states that he has control over the armed forces and things like that, i think in practicality it might be a bit more symbolic than that. Just like the Queen of England has control over the armed forces and is head of the church and this stuff, he role is really more symbolic, but i would imagine Khamenei plays a bigger role than the Queen but still somewhat symbolic.

Anyway, I dont expect you to answer these, if anyone else has some information on how the system works id like to hear it.

 

[Faran]

Interesting feedback Messi, much appreciated.

1. So now I wonder, who exactly decides if the candidates policies are approved?
2. Im curious, so does Khamenei for example pick the next supreme leader secretly right now, or when? Does his term run out when he dies or is he supposed to resign at some point?

Khamenei is not believed to hold more power in this matter than the council of experts. He can be supreme leader until he dies.

There are parties

 

[ardy]

One can view IR as a dictatorship too. Becasue Rahbar directly, or indirectly through Maslahate nezam, Shoraaye negahbaan controls everything.

 

[mashdi]

here is a link to the official text of IRI constitution.hopefully,that will answer some of your questions regarding the legal basis of the IRI power structure.

http://mellat.majlis.ir/archive/1383/10/15/law.htm

 

[Javeed]

First of all, I think its safe to say that we have no IR fans here so please lets cut with the smartass comments. Thanks in advance.

Now, I had this arguement with a friend who was trying to convince me that the IR government in a sense is a democracy although not a perfect one by any stretch. Is there any truth to this?

Some specific questions I have:

1. Can you directly vote in people on the city and/or state level? Or how exactly does that work?

If you mean if you can vote for anyone you wish, the answer is no. You can choose among people who have been approved.

2. The supreme leader; how does he get the job? From my understanding each supreme leader appoints the next, and the Guardian Council has some say on the matter? and since the Guardian Council is composed of 12 members, 6 of which are directly elected, than it is somewhat democratic.

Supreme leader does not name the next supreme leader. Assembly of experts (shoray-e negahban) will appoint one or more (yes. it can be a commitee) person as leader(s). They can aslo remove the supreme leader.

3. We often hear that the Presidency is symbolic. Is this true and what powers does the President exactly have? how does his powers compare to that of the Supreme leader?

President is supposedly is the head of executive branch. He is in charge of executing within the law. He does not have veto power and any he is not the chief of army. Both of these belong to leader.

4. How are members of the parliament elected? Is the parliament democratic?

See the answer to question 1.

5. Who picks the people that get to run for president? and on what basis are they disqualified? Is it true that the reformers werent allowed to run last election because as far as I can remember there were 2 or 3 reformer candidates.

Guardian Council qualifies candidates for presidency and parliment. Notice that this is different from disqualfying. That means that evey one is disqualified by default and they must prove that they are qulified (ehraaz-e salaahyat vs. salab-e salaayat). What happened last time was that the guardian council did not qulify one of the main reformer cadidate (Dr. Moin). Then supreme leader intervene and he was not alloed to run.

 

[foreveriranian]

if u want to answear the question u have to first define your opinion of democracy.

 

[pansari]

if u want to answear the question u have to first define your opinion of democrasy

Most intelligent post so far. Define your parameters then you can conduct your research. Is the democracy you seek one of a 2-party system with clearly defined election dates? Is your defenition of democracy a multi-party system ?

Everyones take on democracy differs, from Canada, to US, to UK, to IR.............although one can argue that the true democracy was the one formed in ancient Greece City States, but those cannot be duplicated in modern society.

 

[Motori]

If you mean if you can vote for anyone you wish, the answer is no. You can choose among people who have been approved.

Javeed jAn,
Would you let me to rephrase your comment a bit? I like it this way....LOOOL

If you mean if you can vote for anyone you wish, the answer is no. You can choose among people who have been Chosen for you by authorities whom have NOT been chosen.

 

[foreveriranian]

"مردم سالاري"
مردم سالاري ابزار حاكميت سياسي اقليت بر اكثريت است كه به منظور و بر پايه "حفظ" حقوق اجتماعي اكثريت راي دهندگان, ترسيم شده از سوي اقليت بر مبناي درك و شناخت اكثريت از زيستي مطلوب, شكل ميگيرد.
شركت كامل و همه جانبه بزرگسالان جامعه در اداره امور زندگي اجتماعي خود, بسته به درجه اي از بلوغ, رشد, و شناخت آنان در عرصه هاي گوناگوني است كه تبلورش در نهادهاي سياسي, اجتماعي, اقتصادي و فرهنگي جامعه قابل مشاهده است. دستيابي به كيفيتي نسبتاً عالي در اين راستا, خود عميقاً ريشه در ميزان بغرنجي و تكامل آگاهي, دانش, فن, ادبيات, هنر, سازمان, سازمان يابي و سازمان يافتگي اعضاي جامعه دارد.

Democracy
Democracy is an instrument for political rule over the majority by the minority that "safeguards" the electors rights set out by the minority according to majorities' expectation and understanding of a desirable social life.
Full participation of adult members of a society in the administration of all state and social affairs requires certain level of maturity and understanding which manifests itself in the forms of political, socio economical, moral and spiritual awareness of that society. This deeply rooted in educational achievements and, inevitably, is related to all aspects of life from production to appreciation of art. Higher these achievements greater the development of democracy which in return leads to a more desirable form of social life.

Both from an Iranian website.

 

[Makaveli]

If you mean if you can vote for anyone you wish, the answer is no. You can choose among people who have been approved.

that would seem needlessly complicated especially on the local level. is there a specific criteria thats there, or is it more arbitrary?

President is supposedly is the head of executive branch. He is in charge of executing within the law. He does not have veto power and any he is not the chief of army. Both of these belong to leader.

But he does have considerable power outside of controlling the armed forces and having veto power correct?

Guardian Council qualifies candidates for presidency and parliment. Notice that this is different from disqualfying. That means that evey one is disqualified by default and they must prove that they are qulified (ehraaz-e salaahyat vs. salab-e salaayat). What happened last time was that the guardian council did not qulify one of the main reformer cadidate (Dr. Moin). Then supreme leader intervene and he was not alloed to run.

Ok thats interesting, which i guess gets me back to my first question on whether there is a specific written criteria that you have to meet or is it arbitrary?

What im getting from the posts here is that the guardian council, supreme leader, assembly of experts and all of these government bodies are in one way or another elected, but that the crop of candidates that you can choose from is already picked. So correct me if im wrong on that?

Last question, can the laws be picked by the people, or is it basically set in stone and all according to Islamic law or the so called sharia law? Because I would think that if the laws cant be picked by people, and that the laws are all straight from the Koran, than it cant be a true democracy because it wouldnt be carrying out the will of the people. Again, correct me if im wrong.

 

[feyenoord]

First of all, i would say that we have actually a lot of IR fans in ISP.
second,
why is your friend trying to convince you that IR is democracy?
IR has one of the smartest systems among other dictators to oppress people and cover it up with the notion of "mardom salary dini".
The most important pillars of the democracy are: Free electoral system (fair), media independence, Respect for human rights, freedom of speech, independent [SIZE=-1]
Juridical System and equality [/SIZE]Equality before the law.....
IR system has none of these Pillars. Sure they have election but Iraq had election during Saddam Hussein's rule too and and just two weeks ago Bashar Asad from Syria won the election with 97 % approval rate(lol).
Iranians should act smartly and don't let IR distort the meaning of democracy. also, they have to convince these so called "journalists" that IR is not democracy.

 

[feyenoord]

"مردم سالاري"
مردم سالاري ابزار حاكميت سياسي اقليت بر اكثريت است كه به منظور و بر پايه "حفظ" حقوق اجتماعي اكثريت راي دهندگان, ترسيم شده از سوي اقليت بر مبناي درك و شناخت اكثريت از زيستي مطلوب, شكل ميگيرد.
شركت كامل و همه جانبه بزرگسالان جامعه در اداره امور زندگي اجتماعي خود, بسته به درجه اي از بلوغ, رشد, و شناخت آنان در عرصه هاي گوناگوني است كه تبلورش در نهادهاي سياسي, اجتماعي, اقتصادي و فرهنگي جامعه قابل مشاهده است. دستيابي به كيفيتي نسبتاً عالي در اين راستا, خود عميقاً ريشه در ميزان بغرنجي و تكامل آگاهي, دانش, فن, ادبيات, هنر, سازمان, سازمان يابي و سازمان يافتگي اعضاي جامعه دارد.

Democracy
Democracy is an instrument for political rule over the majority by the minority that "safeguards" the electors rights set out by the minority according to majorities' expectation and understanding of a desirable social life.
Full participation of adult members of a society in the administration of all state and social affairs requires certain level of maturity and understanding which manifests itself in the forms of political, socio economical, moral and spiritual awareness of that society. This deeply rooted in educational achievements and, inevitably, is related to all aspects of life from production to appreciation of art. Higher these achievements greater the development of democracy which in return leads to a more desirable form of social life.

Both from an Iranian website.

Agha can you give source?

 

[footballeirani]

Makaveli I am not too sure if there is a selection process at the local level. Some known activists might be crossed off but everybody else seems to be able to run. Especially in shoraye shahr elections.

Which is not a good thing. Like alot of people sign up and the selection process becomes very khar to khar.

You could bet that in far more important elections such as the Parliment or Presidential, shoraye negahban pretty much gets rid of all the critics and opposition.

Nehzat azadi for example is an outlawed party so they can not and will not be allowed to take part in elections.

 

[Makaveli]

Makaveli I am not too sure if there is a selection process at the local level. Some known activists might be crossed off but everybody else seems to be able to run. Especially in shoraye shahr elections.

Which is not a good thing. Like alot of people sign up and the selection process becomes very khar to khar.

You could bet that in far more important elections such as the Parliment or Presidential, shoraye negahban pretty much gets rid of all the critics and opposition.

Nehzat azadi for example is an outlawed party so they can not and will not be allowed to take part in elections.

outlawed party? I was under the imopression that there werent political parties in Iran. What political party does Ahmadninejad for example belong to? and are political parties similar to the ones we have here, meaning to they have primary processes and these things?

Also would you happen to know anything about the law? Is it all exclusively based on the Koran and cant be changed? because of tahts the case than I cant see how a country could ever be a true democracy carrying out the will of the people when the laws are directly from a holy book.

 

[footballeirani]

I thought you knew this stuff? Are you playing with me mate?

Read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_parties_of_Iran

 

[Makaveli]

I thought you knew this stuff? Are you playing with me mate?

No man im not pulling your leg. IR seems to have a complex government system and I want to figure it out, im not ashamed to ask questions and admit when i dont know something.

 

[tajrish]

For best review of IR's power structure, you should look click on the following link:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/st...ggle_for_change/who_holds_power/president.stm

 

[footballeirani]

For best review of IR's power structure, you should look click on the following link:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/st...ggle_for_change/who_holds_power/president.stm

Thats not an entirely accurate picture. Only half the guardian council is selected by the Supreme leader. The other half is elected by Majlis from candidates presented by the head of judiciary system.