hoshang amirahmadi

Irani

IPL Player
Oct 19, 2002
2,625
0
Iran (70%), Others (30%)
#81
Good grief who has time!!

Okay. … the name is in two links that I provided.
Here is one of those links: http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2013/05/20135765355577838.html

The name is almost in the middle of article….

.... But not only were the laws stacked against it, NIAC was also significantly outspent because the neoconservatives decided to go all out to deal a death blow to the anti-war forces. In fact, the well-financed anti-Muslim, pro-war activist Daniel Pipes stepped in to support Daioleslam through the legal arm of his organisation, the Middle East Forum. Pipes got Daioleslam a top-notch legal team headed by George Bush's former White House lawyer Bradford Berenson of Sidley Austin, the sixth largest law firm in the world.
 

Flint

Legionnaire
Jan 28, 2006
7,016
0
United States
#82
Good grief who has time!!

Okay. … the name is in two links that I provided.
Here is one of those links: http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2013/05/20135765355577838.html

The name is almost in the middle of article….

.... But not only were the laws stacked against it, NIAC was also significantly outspent because the neoconservatives decided to go all out to deal a death blow to the anti-war forces. In fact, the well-financed anti-Muslim, pro-war activist Daniel Pipes stepped in to support Daioleslam through the legal arm of his organisation, the Middle East Forum. Pipes got Daioleslam a top-notch legal team headed by George Bush's former White House lawyer Bradford Berenson of Sidley Austin, the sixth largest law firm in the world.

All this ads up to a big O. I don't see these "anti-war" forces asking Assad to leave. War is perfectly fine over there.
 

khodam

Bench Warmer
Oct 18, 2002
2,458
88
Atlanta
#83
The way you get under some's skin is to insult what is near and dear to them. The fact that you took such offense at calling IR to stop their terrorist activities and responded by calling me a "bunch of American Eyeranians" speaks volumes for who you are.
Cool story bro, it's just that in your excitement for exposing me, you lost the point by a mile :)

You have to do a lot more to get under my skin because I never called you an "American Eyeranian", I called NIAC members a "bunch of American Eyeranians". You see, you suggested that they should ask IR to stop doing a bunch of things, and I said why would IR care about a bunch of American Eyeranians (i.e. NIAC members, who are in the US, daaah!).
 

Ardesheer

Bench Warmer
Jun 30, 2005
1,580
1
#84
Good grief who has time!!

Okay. … the name is in two links that I provided.
Here is one of those links: http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2013/05/20135765355577838.html

The name is almost in the middle of article….

.... But not only were the laws stacked against it, NIAC was also significantly outspent because the neoconservatives decided to go all out to deal a death blow to the anti-war forces. In fact, the well-financed anti-Muslim, pro-war activist Daniel Pipes stepped in to support Daioleslam through the legal arm of his organisation, the Middle East Forum. Pipes got Daioleslam a top-notch legal team headed by George Bush's former White House lawyer Bradford Berenson of Sidley Austin, the sixth largest law firm in the world.
The guy was an associate White House counsel. It's funny, now he becomes one of the top notch attorneys in the U.S. Also, the article said that the Judge was appointed by Bush. Federal judges are all appointed by Presidents. The article says that NIAC had to show that the statement was a lie, but also had to show malice, which is had to show. As if NIAC did not know the law before they filed a lawsuit. This is craziness. Blame the law, blame the judge, and then say attorney used to be an associate counsel to White House that went to private practice. That's exactly the type of attorney that would do pro bono work, the public minded attorney. All propoganda.
 

khodam

Bench Warmer
Oct 18, 2002
2,458
88
Atlanta
#85
Now to just get an idea of what your stands are on some issues.
Here are mine:

I am against Negotiation with NO PRE-CONDTION with Rahbari and AN and regime ( emphesize is on no Pre-conditon which you left out).

I am against lifting the sanctions on IR unless it stops its support of Global terrorism and also prosecution of the religious, political and racial minorities.

I am against individuals doing business openly with Iran until this regime is in power because it will give the regime a way to laundry money in and out of Iran.

I am against voting in presidential selection because I find it pointless.



Trita is opposite me on all the above points. I am wondering what is your stand on these issues ?
Shahin,

Sorry about the delay in responding, and I apologize if I'm slow to respond in the next few days too.

Of course you can ignore my posts whenever you want, that is your prerogative as well as mine. However, since you are obviously a fan of logic, I would still maintain that drawing parallels between what I say and Reza claiming that Neda was not murdered by IR is inaccurate, unnecessary, and prevents a reasonable discussion. Points should be discussed based on their substance, and people on their inherent merits. That is why I believe that there is more substantial material to discuss NIAC than their founder having worked for an infamous person a decade ago. By the same token, whether someone has a picture with x or y should not be part of the discussion either.

I'm glad you turned the topic to the substance of the matter and policies. I'll try to give you my view of the issues you brought up. But before I do, I want to reiterate that I understand your position on those topics is opposite of NIAC's, but again IMO that would not make them traitors.

Now to your policy issues. I first give you my view if I were a non-Iranian citizen because I think what the US would and should do has little to do with what I want for Iran as an Iranian. So:

A) If I am an American with no particular interest in Iran:

The main objective would be preventing Iran from acquiring nuclear ability (and not just the bomb), or at least nuclear bomb. Of course I care about the plight of people and human rights but they are secondary. If I can strike a deal with Iran that would ensure they won't go nuclear but give them higher domestic power and stability, I would do it. Of course I would prefer IRI to go but I can live with them if they are contained from a nuclear point of view.

To do so, pre 2009 post 2003, I would do mostly as Obama has done on your first three items: Hit them hard with sanctions, set up conditions for direct talks and removal of sanctions, limit business with Iran, punish or discourage interactions, try to isolate Iran, etc. As an American I wouldn't really have a say on your last point (voting in elections).

Note that I said pre 2009 in my response above. After the Green movement, the line of reasoning could change significantly, to justify doing almost the opposite. But what Obama started to do seems to be working, so if it was up to me as an American, I probably wouldn't change any thing. I'll explain what I mean more in case B.

B) I am an Iranian living abroad:

My main objective is to get self-governance for the people who have been looking for it for a century or more; to get rid of IRI. In general, I strongly believe that dictatorships thrive in isolation, they always have. Isolation and sanctions weaken people and regimes both, but weaken people more than they do regimes (Saddam and Castro are good examples). So isolation and sanctions end up strengthening dictators relative to the population, even though they are weakened internationally. So long as there is no external threat to the dictator, it's domestically a good thing for a dictator who's threatened by his people to have his country isolated and under sanction.

Because of the explanation above I am, in general, against sanction and limitations for business interactions with Iran. It would be good if there could be targeted limitations for government entities, but I find that hard to do if you're following an engagement path. Again because of the above, I am in general pro negotiations, and pre-conditions are to some extent a hinderance to starting negotiations, so I don't have, in general, any problem with negotiations without preconditions. On your last point (elections), while I agree that these are more selection than election, I have been in general in favor of voting, because as limited as they are, they would help institutionalize an civic infrastructure, and that they can (but not necessarily) result in marginal progress or reform.

That above is my generic answer. Things changed significantly in 2009 and my opinion on a number of those things has changed accordingly or is shaken. The regime was so shaken that I can see sanctions causing an existential problem for them, something that is usually not the case for such dictatorships. The same with isolation and lack of negotiations and accompanying limitation on business transactions. I don't think I will vote in the upcoming election but I'm not decided yet. So the short answer is that in the current fluid situation, I honestly don't know what to think on almost any of those questions you ask because I don't have enough information. I still prefer no sanctions and engagement as a general rule, but the weakness of this regime together with the memory of the brutal days following the last election make me hesitant on that general stance. Elections are even more of a joke than they were in 2009 but still I don't see what not voting would accomplish either.

In 2009 and 2005 I campaigned by butt off for people that I knew to vote and I am proud of that. This year I will stay quiet because I am not confident what to think. One thing I am confident about is that when the next wave of popular protest arrives, IRI will be no more. It may be this summer, it may be 20 year but IRI will not survive the next round.
 

feyenoord

Bench Warmer
Aug 23, 2005
1,706
0
#86
Shahin,

Sorry about the delay in responding, and I apologize if I'm slow to respond in the next few days too.

Of course you can ignore my posts whenever you want, that is your prerogative as well as mine. However, since you are obviously a fan of logic, I would still maintain that drawing parallels between what I say and Reza claiming that Neda was not murdered by IR is inaccurate, unnecessary, and prevents a reasonable discussion. Points should be discussed based on their substance, and people on their inherent merits. That is why I believe that there is more substantial material to discuss NIAC than their founder having worked for an infamous person a decade ago. By the same token, whether someone has a picture with x or y should not be part of the discussion either.

I'm glad you turned the topic to the substance of the matter and policies. I'll try to give you my view of the issues you brought up. But before I do, I want to reiterate that I understand your position on those topics is opposite of NIAC's, but again IMO that would not make them traitors.

Now to your policy issues. I first give you my view if I were a non-Iranian citizen because I think what the US would and should do has little to do with what I want for Iran as an Iranian. So:

A) If I am an American with no particular interest in Iran:

The main objective would be preventing Iran from acquiring nuclear ability (and not just the bomb), or at least nuclear bomb. Of course I care about the plight of people and human rights but they are secondary. If I can strike a deal with Iran that would ensure they won't go nuclear but give them higher domestic power and stability, I would do it. Of course I would prefer IRI to go but I can live with them if they are contained from a nuclear point of view.

To do so, pre 2009 post 2003, I would do mostly as Obama has done on your first three items: Hit them hard with sanctions, set up conditions for direct talks and removal of sanctions, limit business with Iran, punish or discourage interactions, try to isolate Iran, etc. As an American I wouldn't really have a say on your last point (voting in elections).

Note that I said pre 2009 in my response above. After the Green movement, the line of reasoning could change significantly, to justify doing almost the opposite. But what Obama started to do seems to be working, so if it was up to me as an American, I probably wouldn't change any thing. I'll explain what I mean more in case B.

B) I am an Iranian living abroad:

My main objective is to get self-governance for the people who have been looking for it for a century or more; to get rid of IRI. In general, I strongly believe that dictatorships thrive in isolation, they always have. Isolation and sanctions weaken people and regimes both, but weaken people more than they do regimes (Saddam and Castro are good examples). So isolation and sanctions end up strengthening dictators relative to the population, even though they are weakened internationally. So long as there is no external threat to the dictator, it's domestically a good thing for a dictator who's threatened by his people to have his country isolated and under sanction.

Because of the explanation above I am, in general, against sanction and limitations for business interactions with Iran. It would be good if there could be targeted limitations for government entities, but I find that hard to do if you're following an engagement path. Again because of the above, I am in general pro negotiations, and pre-conditions are to some extent a hinderance to starting negotiations, so I don't have, in general, any problem with negotiations without preconditions. On your last point (elections), while I agree that these are more selection than election, I have been in general in favor of voting, because as limited as they are, they would help institutionalize an civic infrastructure, and that they can (but not necessarily) result in marginal progress or reform.

That above is my generic answer. Things changed significantly in 2009 and my opinion on a number of those things has changed accordingly or is shaken. The regime was so shaken that I can see sanctions causing an existential problem for them, something that is usually not the case for such dictatorships. The same with isolation and lack of negotiations and accompanying limitation on business transactions. I don't think I will vote in the upcoming election but I'm not decided yet. So the short answer is that in the current fluid situation, I honestly don't know what to think on almost any of those questions you ask because I don't have enough information. I still prefer no sanctions and engagement as a general rule, but the weakness of this regime together with the memory of the brutal days following the last election make me hesitant on that general stance. Elections are even more of a joke than they were in 2009 but still I don't see what not voting would accomplish either.

In 2009 and 2005 I campaigned by butt off for people that I knew to vote and I am proud of that. This year I will stay quiet because I am not confident what to think. One thing I am confident about is that when the next wave of popular protest arrives, IRI will be no more. It may be this summer, it may be 20 year but IRI will not survive the next round.
Very well said!!!

This is something I do not get either. Specially the one I highlighted in bold. I totally agree with you on that. I am not going to vote myself and personally I have only voted once in my life in IR elections and that was in 2009. However, I have not seen any single justification for what not voting among the people in Iran could achieve. Myself, all my life, I have heard people around me (family, friends, public, prominent people) calling for boycott of the elections. In my opinion, by knowing Iranians, they have created a taboo for themselves. 2009 proved to me that things are not the way people see it or choose to be ignorant about it.

Does that mean I will encourage people to vote? definitely not. However, I think the people should gauge whether to vote or not, every time there is election, based on what they could gain. If they feel they can get something out of this election they should vote. Otherwise, they shouldnt. However, dont make an absolute out of voting or not voting. This should not not become some sort of contest between opposition and IR to prove who has legitimacy. IR people know already they have not legitimacy.

If boycott of the elections turns in something good or something is achieved with it, I personally accept it. Otherwise, it should not turn into an absolute strategy.
 

Flint

Legionnaire
Jan 28, 2006
7,016
0
United States
#88
In 2009 and 2005 I campaigned by butt off for people that I knew to vote and I am proud of that. This year I will stay quiet because I am not confident what to think. One thing I am confident about is that when the next wave of popular protest arrives, IRI will be no more. It may be this summer, it may be 20 year but IRI will not survive the next round.

So it took you, what, 30 years to finally figure out what IR is made of? What credibility are you bringing to these pages?
 
Oct 18, 2002
7,941
0
704 Houser
#89
Regarding NIAC, in the past I have defended them against baseless accusations on this forum. I initially thought their representation of Iranians was a positive thing and supported them, and still think there is a need for that. However, my feelings these days are that NIAC like most mid eastern organization has been hijacked by people with Islamists tendencies. They way they brag about about defeating AIPAC in some trivial lobbying effort reeks of typical Iranian muslim oghdeh and antisemitism. As long as they exhibit this kind of stupidity, I can't support them. Regarding Mr. Parsi, I have met him before, and I personally find him to be interesting and not at all ideological. But I do think there are people within his organization that aren't representing it well.
 

Flint

Legionnaire
Jan 28, 2006
7,016
0
United States
#90
I really don't know what their charter is. The red flag for me is that they have made normalizing relations with Iran as their top mission. Is that the top concern of Iranian-Americans? I don't think so. If there was a North Korean advocacy group and all they did was to try normalize relations with North Korea, what would you think? What civic activities are they involved with in the US? Do they have voter education, registration, travel, congressional outreach on behalf of constituents? Anything that matters to private citizens? I haven't seen any. But they wake up every morning and try to lift sanctions, excuse nuclear activities and otherwise normalize relations with IR. These are all top priorities of IR. That's why NIAC is suspect. Does anybody know where their funding comes from?
 
Oct 1, 2004
8,122
205
#91
I really don't know what their charter is. The red flag for me is that they have made normalizing relations with Iran as their top mission. Is that the top concern of Iranian-Americans? I don't think so. If there was a North Korean advocacy group and all they did was to try normalize relations with North Korea, what would you think? What civic activities are they involved with in the US? Do they have voter education, registration, travel, congressional outreach on behalf of constituents? Anything that matters to private citizens? I haven't seen any. But they wake up every morning and try to lift sanctions, excuse nuclear activities and otherwise normalize relations with IR. These are all top priorities of IR. That's why NIAC is suspect. Does anybody know where their funding comes from?
The gap between the older and younger members here remind me of the fights between older and younger Cuban exiles.
 
Jun 9, 2004
13,753
1
Canada
#92
ROFL. :2v1:

انتخابات رژیم؛ ماجرای ثبت ***نام مشكوک "هوشنگ قلی***خان"

شخصی كه در مصاحبه با 'صدای آمریكا' مدعی ثبت***نام در انتخابات ریاست***جمهوری شده، به هیچ عنوان نامش در وزارت كشور ثبت نشده است.

به گزارش باشگاه خبرنگاران، "هوشنگ امیر***احمدی" فرزند قلی كه در برخی از محافل به "هوشنگ قلی***خان" معروف است، در مصاحبه با شبكه صدای آمریكا مدعی ثبت***نام در انتخابات ریاست***جمهوری شده است.

امیر***احمدی كه به "دلال رابطه ایران و آمریكا" معروف شده است، ادعا می***كند نامش به عنوان نامزد انتخابات ریاست***جمهوری در وزارت كشور ثبت شده، اما اطلاع مستند خبرنگار ما حكایت از این امر دارد كه نه شخص امیر***احمدی و نه هیچكس به نیابت او برای ثبت نام به ستاد انتخابات كشور نرفته***است.

لازم به ذكر است، این شخص دچار بیماری مطرح***شدن بوده و زیاد دروغ می***گوید.
 
Last edited:

masoudA

Legionnaire
Oct 16, 2008
6,199
22
#93
ROFL. :2v1:

انتخابات رژیم؛ ماجرای ثبت ***نام مشكوک "هوشنگ قلی***خان"

شخصی كه در مصاحبه با 'صدای آمریكا' مدعی ثبت***نام در انتخابات ریاست***جمهوری شده، به هیچ عنوان نامش در وزارت كشور ثبت نشده است.

به گزارش باشگاه خبرنگاران، "هوشنگ امیر***احمدی" فرزند قلی كه در برخی از محافل به "هوشنگ قلی***خان" معروف است، در مصاحبه با شبكه صدای آمریكا مدعی ثبت***نام در انتخابات ریاست***جمهوری شده است.

امیر***احمدی كه به "دلال رابطه ایران و آمریكا" معروف شده است، ادعا می***كند نامش به عنوان نامزد انتخابات ریاست***جمهوری در وزارت كشور ثبت شده، اما اطلاع مستند خبرنگار ما حكایت از این امر دارد كه نه شخص امیر***احمدی و نه هیچكس به نیابت او برای ثبت نام به ستاد انتخابات كشور نرفته***است.

لازم به ذكر است، این شخص دچار بیماری مطرح***شدن بوده و زیاد دروغ می***گوید.

Looooooooooool - BTW, he may be doing all of this to keep the Grants coming. I wish I had a list of all the grants this University Professor has recieved and from whom!!!
 

artavile

IPL Player
Oct 18, 2002
3,660
2
MD, USA
#94
Looooooooooool - BTW, he may be doing all of this to keep the Grants coming. I wish I had a list of all the grants this University Professor has recieved and from whom!!!
Masoud jan, I have a feeling that all the grants somehow originated from an small island west of Africa. ;)
 

masoudA

Legionnaire
Oct 16, 2008
6,199
22
#95
Masoud jan, I have a feeling that all the grants somehow originated from an small island west of Africa. ;)
Arti jaan - they have made so many legal loopholes here in USA, they no longer have to go to any Islands...... Amirahmadi heads a Department right? His department has been getting private grants,.....say for doing research to see how to turn goosaleh into gav in the ME!!! lol this bozo - if being accepted as a presidential candidate, or even if he gets votes in any elections in Iran will double his grants....