Is U.S. being unfairly criticized over spying..etc?

beystr 2.0

Bench Warmer
Jul 9, 2006
1,983
0
#1
Fair should not be the operative word here, but are we piling on U.S. over something that we all are doing ? are “ them “ or “Al ladzi” being hypocrites?
Well 1[SUP]st[/SUP] off , this is not an isolated argument between Euro’s and their cousin U.S. and this has fast become a universal petition to just ask some questions and see if everyone is still is in “tajdid meesAgh” bA U.S.

The only thing missing is U.S. itself in the talk, since Zimmerman trial and the use of “N” word is the chosen topic ( as Masoud would pledge) in U.S., but heck we can do it right here in sacred forums of ISP. They can read it later. lol

I don’t know how far each and everyone is spying on each other and for example ,if U.S. is bugging the EU headquarters in Brussels , are Euros also bugging the U.S. congress?, in other words has some one stepped over the line?..to me anyway, this is not the issue and myself would not care either way.

My point is that , U.S. has for the longest time taken this B.S. moral high ground, that u know,-…We are better than this and that, Chinese are THE hackers or steal U.S. innovations, or Russians cheat-lie or IRI do terrorism and lie and cheat … u see where I’m going?…basically Uncle Sam has been saying “my shit don’t smell” and everyone else’s stink..And my amigos..This is the biggest lie itself and the world is coming around to it.

Since they (allazi..lol) are the super power with super reach and propaganda facilities as powerful as Hollywood and generally their worldwide media arm can make any crap into reality , and most of us and especially the residents of U.S. have these points hacked into their conscious as if it really is the absolute fact.
I like many bought the B.S. too, but when u live outside and u see what is going on, U start realizing that indeed U.S. among many things good and bad, are the top terrorist, top hackers meaning stealers of industrial data, others innovations, spying in every embassy ground and any chance they get..and they do torture, kill and mistreat their own citizens just like the rest of U.S. if not hell of a lot more, just becuz they are that much more able to do it…remember the infamous U.S. position of “ we don’t talk to terrorists”…LOL..bA khodeshon ke nemitonan ghahr bokonan..lol…

Anyhow…so yes….it is news and shocking and disappointing to many that uncle Sam is just as much of a slut as everyone else and then some….re precautions could be significant and worthy of talk.?...that's of course if you rather NOT engage in conversation​ on the use of "N" word.
 

Flint

Legionnaire
Jan 28, 2006
7,016
0
United States
#2
Fair should not be the operative word here, but are we piling on U.S. over something that we all are doing ? are “ them “ or “Al ladzi” being hypocrites?
Well 1[SUP]st[/SUP] off , this is not an isolated argument between Euro’s and their cousin U.S. and this has fast become a universal petition to just ask some questions and see if everyone is still is in “tajdid meesAgh” bA U.S.

The only thing missing is U.S. itself in the talk, since Zimmerman trial and the use of “N” word is the chosen topic ( as Masoud would pledge) in U.S., but heck we can do it right here in sacred forums of ISP. They can read it later. lol

I don’t know how far each and everyone is spying on each other and for example ,if U.S. is bugging the EU headquarters in Brussels , are Euros also bugging the U.S. congress?, in other words has some one stepped over the line?..to me anyway, this is not the issue and myself would not care either way.

My point is that , U.S. has for the longest time taken this B.S. moral high ground, that u know,-…We are better than this and that, Chinese are THE hackers or steal U.S. innovations, or Russians cheat-lie or IRI do terrorism and lie and cheat … u see where I’m going?…basically Uncle Sam has been saying “my shit don’t smell” and everyone else’s stink..And my amigos..This is the biggest lie itself and the world is coming around to it.

Since they (allazi..lol) are the super power with super reach and propaganda facilities as powerful as Hollywood and generally their worldwide media arm can make any crap into reality , and most of us and especially the residents of U.S. have these points hacked into their conscious as if it really is the absolute fact.
I like many bought the B.S. too, but when u live outside and u see what is going on, U start realizing that indeed U.S. among many things good and bad, are the top terrorist, top hackers meaning stealers of industrial data, others innovations, spying in every embassy ground and any chance they get..and they do torture, kill and mistreat their own citizens just like the rest of U.S. if not hell of a lot more, just becuz they are that much more able to do it…remember the infamous U.S. position of “ we don’t talk to terrorists”…LOL..bA khodeshon ke nemitonan ghahr bokonan..lol…

Anyhow…so yes….it is news and shocking and disappointing to many that uncle Sam is just as much of a slut as everyone else and then some….re precautions could be significant and worthy of talk.?...that's of course if you rather NOT engage in conversation​ on the use of "N" word.
OK, so what you suggest we do about it?
 

beystr 2.0

Bench Warmer
Jul 9, 2006
1,983
0
#3
Oh...depending on what comes out of all these and when or if there is some sort of a resolution of these affairs...it can have a very negative or positive effect on the emerging democracies and at the moment its mostly looking negative. basically I've always thought what U.S. does,good or bad, is being watched carefully by many..and when U.S. does not own up to its rhetoric, it just makes our job (in Iran) a bit harder in realizing our rightful demands from our governments...right or wrong inevitably U.S. is the standard in how governments around the world evolve, it is a big responsibility of course and I'd say, U.S. has seen the benefits of it too..it goes both ways....right now , it is just not a good time for struggling democracy movements, IMO.
 

byebyenow

National Team Player
Jun 3, 2006
4,957
170
#4
This is not anything new, actually it is not about the constitution and human rights anymore since many brought it up from 2008 to 2011 and never got enough attention to it. Right now what Edward Snowden brought up is the hard proof of privatizing the NSA sectors. In simple word it is the same as Surveillance Industrial Complex which is part of the same Military Industrial Complex. Just with some simple research anybody can see how much we are spending annually on national security and who is the head of Booz Allen and what he used to do under Clinton.
Of course EU is pissed off about it but its mostly Germany since public of Germany is one of the most sensitive ones in surveillance because of their Gestapo and Stasi in the past, but as we've seen Portugal, Spain, France and Italy all closed their air space to Bolivian president because of suspicious of Snowden being in the plane. At the end of the day every European country in the exception of Russia and Ukraine and some other East European countries bend over in front US. The only countries that are really standing up against US at the moment are Latino countries and they won't back down!
What should we do about it? it is simple just look around the world and see what people around the world are doing for example places like Brazil, Turkey, Greece, Portugal, ect... People around the world are looking forward for that day American people finally wake up!
 

beystr 2.0

Bench Warmer
Jul 9, 2006
1,983
0
#5
It also seems like Europeans have just woken up to the fact that Internet is pretty much owned and serviced by U.S. and at the end of the day everybody's data stored on american servers..this was IRI's gripe since couple yrs ago, thus wanting to basically have an Intranet and internet with 2 clearly separated routs so they can have some sort of control over their data. it is a very complex and expensive task, but IMO, one of the negative results of the Snowden disclosures could be that Internet slowly becoming a very restricted environment. I'd bet euro's already planning to have an EU internet...if u can call it that way.
 

byebyenow

National Team Player
Jun 3, 2006
4,957
170
#6
Iran and Pakistan were the two counties that NSA has attacked the most. There was a cyber attack on Iranian Nuclear program and that explains why Iranian pushed for that domestic Internet program. However Iranian people are still under attack by both NSA and their own domestic surveillance program.
IMO who cares if they spied on another asshole in EU but what is important to me is them spying on people and that is just wrong and this actually is the beginning of that time people around the world are starting to not trust American and their allies.
 

byebyenow

National Team Player
Jun 3, 2006
4,957
170
#10
^^^
you are out of your mind, he doesn't even think about Iran since it is one of the worst countries to give people asylum. Venezuela, Bolivia and Nicaragua already accepted his asylum and Ecuador is on the verge of accepting it. He will end up somewhere in South America!
 

byebyenow

National Team Player
Jun 3, 2006
4,957
170
#13
Now help me understand. When someone gets asylum from these countries, how do they manage to make a living? Is there welfare programs?
I am sure someone like Snowden have no problem to find a job with skills he posses. But the idea of him making a living somewhere in the world under political asylum was not probably his objective but rather his only solution to avoid unjust treatment by US government. His main objective was to reveal NSA secrets to citizens around the world which he succeeded.
 
Oct 20, 2003
9,345
1
#15
His main objective was to reveal NSA secrets to citizens around the world which he succeeded.
If that was the case, why would he go to Chinese and the Russians to spill the beans; two of America's most powerful rivals? I say he is one misguided dude.
 

byebyenow

National Team Player
Jun 3, 2006
4,957
170
#16
What was the "secret"? It is all in the Patriot Act.
Yes, it was. However how NSA were doing it was still a very big question which he revealed it with hard proof. Plus what was on patriot act wasn't even clear for the Congress how this act supposed to work, they clearly asked James Clapper if they were profiling American citizens, which he lied. So yes many details of what Snowden revealed was unknown to many which in another sense they were secrets which he revealed. Many experts for years has spoken about these issues. Other whistleblower such as Thomas Drake has leaked about NSA before but nobody like Snowden had any hard proof and many details of how NSA work. So yes, many information he revealed were secrets and classified documents.
 

byebyenow

National Team Player
Jun 3, 2006
4,957
170
#17
If that was the case, why would he go to Chinese and the Russians to spill the beans; two of America's most powerful rivals? I say he is one misguided dude.
I am sorry what is misguided is your argument. Tell me which countries in the world only have the balls to slap American face? Of course it is only Russia and China. First of all he didn't spill the beans for Chinese and Russian government but to Guardian which is not based in any of those country. He knew he had to leave US and he chose Hong Kong. Then he knew Chinese government don't like him there because of US-Chinese recent talks but because of Chinese public China couldn't give him to US. Then we have Russia who came out and said if he wants to stay he must stop leaking info about our partner US. He doesn't want to stay in China nor Russia but he had to choose this two country to be able to travel through otherwise he would have been arrested by Americans.
There is only one wrong thing in this picture and it is there used to be a time people from China and Russia used to run away from their countries and get asylum to US, now we have American runs away from their country to China and Russia!
 

Flint

Legionnaire
Jan 28, 2006
7,016
0
United States
#18
Yes, it was. However how NSA were doing it was still a very big question which he revealed it with hard proof. Plus what was on patriot act wasn't even clear for the Congress how this act supposed to work, they clearly asked James Clapper if they were profiling American citizens, which he lied. So yes many details of what Snowden revealed was unknown to many which in another sense they were secrets which he revealed. Many experts for years has spoken about these issues. Other whistleblower such as Thomas Drake has leaked about NSA before but nobody like Snowden had any hard proof and many details of how NSA work. So yes, many information he revealed were secrets and classified documents.
Thank God we have a Democrat in the White HOuse to reign in the excesses of these right wing Republicans. Imagine if the Patriot Act was still the law. Wait!
 

byebyenow

National Team Player
Jun 3, 2006
4,957
170
#19
Thank God we have a Democrat in the White HOuse to reign in the excesses of these right wing Republicans. Imagine if the Patriot Act was still the law. Wait!
Democrats has been much worse than Republican in this issue! Obama continued Bush programs and even has increased it. He also started this war on whistlebloweres and journalists. What Left? there is no left and right anymore, they are all the same crap!
 
Oct 20, 2003
9,345
1
#20
I am sorry what is misguided is your argument. Tell me which countries in the world only have the balls to slap American face? Of course it is only Russia and China. First of all he didn't spill the beans for Chinese and Russian government but to Guardian which is not based in any of those country. !
So an American citizen taking the secrets of his country and give it the enemies of his country to slap his country better is not misguided? If you think all the he possessed was revealed the Guardian, you are mistaken.
If that was the case why then the Russian told him to stop leaking information then?
Then he knew Chinese government don't like him there because of US-Chinese recent talks but because of Chinese public China couldn't give him to US.
Come again, since when the Chinese public opinion mattered to the Chinese? If he knew this why did he go there in the first place.
He doesn't want to stay in China nor Russia
Really, how do you know? They got what they wanted from him and kicked him in the morning.