Thanx for all replies -
Here is my birds-eye view.
1- Religion - all religions are on the decline in the world......If you agree science sets the foundations today and for the future of mankind..then you can't but conclude total decline of religion as it is preached and practiced today. Don't form opinions on religion based on propaganda which is put out by different religions.....according to IR there are 70 millions Shiites in Iran - but as you all know well - we don't have in total any more than 10,000 Iranians under the age of 30 who pray 5 times a day and believe in Mahdi. As Sporthead pointed out enters education in one door and out goes religion from the other. Again - along with other religions, Islam is destined to demise...my suggestions for reforming Islam is for the interim.....it will be centuries before all idiots are educated and heeled!!
2- Reforming a religion also speeds up it's demise, and improves lives.
3- I am by no means promoting doing away with "Spirituality". Those of you who think science has all the answers are mistaking. The biggest reform we need is to insert spirituality into societies, bypassing religion and akhoonds of all religions.
Meehandoost jaan - We can reform religion when we recognize God never sent us a book or a religion. The only reason I suggest reform of this religion is to save the followers from the oppressionist nature and backwardness of ISlam - same way the Lutherans and Protestants freed themselves from the backwardness of the Chatolic Church.
Here is my birds-eye view.
1- Religion - all religions are on the decline in the world......If you agree science sets the foundations today and for the future of mankind..then you can't but conclude total decline of religion as it is preached and practiced today. Don't form opinions on religion based on propaganda which is put out by different religions.....according to IR there are 70 millions Shiites in Iran - but as you all know well - we don't have in total any more than 10,000 Iranians under the age of 30 who pray 5 times a day and believe in Mahdi. As Sporthead pointed out enters education in one door and out goes religion from the other. Again - along with other religions, Islam is destined to demise...my suggestions for reforming Islam is for the interim.....it will be centuries before all idiots are educated and heeled!!
2- Reforming a religion also speeds up it's demise, and improves lives.
3- I am by no means promoting doing away with "Spirituality". Those of you who think science has all the answers are mistaking. The biggest reform we need is to insert spirituality into societies, bypassing religion and akhoonds of all religions.
Meehandoost jaan - We can reform religion when we recognize God never sent us a book or a religion. The only reason I suggest reform of this religion is to save the followers from the oppressionist nature and backwardness of ISlam - same way the Lutherans and Protestants freed themselves from the backwardness of the Chatolic Church.
beystr jaan, thanks for your questions. Of course all religions are from God; in fact they are all one and the source of guidance for humankind, but for different times and places. They are one, but not the same. They are one in the sense that they all originate from the same source, but not the same since they have appeared at different times, and spoken to different challenges. As we have evolved, so too the religion of God in keeping with our struggles and challenges. This is called "progressive revelation" meaning that the Will of God is progressively revealed to humanity. Just as we learn more with each grade in school, so too is our spiritual education through God's messengers.
masoud jaan, with all due respect, how can you tell with any level of certainty that God never sent any religions? In fact logic would seem to indicate the opposite that if in fact there was a creator who was All-powerful, All-knowing, All-loving, and All-wise, He would not be aloof, but would want to keep in touch and help us along our path of discovery and maturation as a specie. This is why we have to have a pragmatic approach and see the importance of both science and religion in human life. The problem is not with religion, in this case with Islam, rather in attachment of its followers to a name and to the "lamp", rather than to the "light". We should be followers of light in whatever lamp it appears, but not the lamp itself. This is our limitation, not the limitation of God's religion. God never intended for any religion to endure forever because our challenges are different in every age, it is us who perceive a religion to be the last and final. It is also us who perceive to beyond reform or in need of one, otherwise really God does update His religion frequently as witnessed throughout time. If it has happened in the past, it will happen again in the future.
You are correct that some Muslims have created an obstacle in the path of progress and modernity, so it is they who need to be reformed, because their faith and religion is founded in prejudice, not reason, it is rooted in imitation, not understanding, it has been inherited in prejudice, not discovered for oneself by investigation. We see their examples every day on this very site and in all aspects of life among Iranians who are among the most prejudiced people in the world. They ridicule what they do not understand without taking the time to examine the facts and thereby not only deprive themselves of the truth, but also retard the progress of a nation. This is our challenge in this day, to break the shackles of dogma, imitation, and prejudice and read, think, analyze and understand for ourselves. As much as we like to expedite, for this change to be lasting and meaningful, it has to take place by willing participation and at the grassroots level.
It is as simple as this. For centuries now, and especially the last few decades, Muslims have witnessed Islamic teachings in action in this society and can decide for themselves whether or not they do apply to the challenges of our time. If they do, then there is no problem for them, but if they don't and we imperfect humans have discovered this fact and made this observation, don't we think that He who is the creator has also recognized this and sent new guidance for us? The challenge then remains in the discovery of this message and the application of its teachings to the problems of our time.
masoud jaan, with all due respect, how can you tell with any level of certainty that God never sent any religions? In fact logic would seem to indicate the opposite that if in fact there was a creator who was All-powerful, All-knowing, All-loving, and All-wise, He would not be aloof, but would want to keep in touch and help us along our path of discovery and maturation as a specie. This is why we have to have a pragmatic approach and see the importance of both science and religion in human life. The problem is not with religion, in this case with Islam, rather in attachment of its followers to a name and to the "lamp", rather than to the "light". We should be followers of light in whatever lamp it appears, but not the lamp itself. This is our limitation, not the limitation of God's religion. God never intended for any religion to endure forever because our challenges are different in every age, it is us who perceive a religion to be the last and final. It is also us who perceive to beyond reform or in need of one, otherwise really God does update His religion frequently as witnessed throughout time. If it has happened in the past, it will happen again in the future.
You are correct that some Muslims have created an obstacle in the path of progress and modernity, so it is they who need to be reformed, because their faith and religion is founded in prejudice, not reason, it is rooted in imitation, not understanding, it has been inherited in prejudice, not discovered for oneself by investigation. We see their examples every day on this very site and in all aspects of life among Iranians who are among the most prejudiced people in the world. They ridicule what they do not understand without taking the time to examine the facts and thereby not only deprive themselves of the truth, but also retard the progress of a nation. This is our challenge in this day, to break the shackles of dogma, imitation, and prejudice and read, think, analyze and understand for ourselves. As much as we like to expedite, for this change to be lasting and meaningful, it has to take place by willing participation and at the grassroots level.
It is as simple as this. For centuries now, and especially the last few decades, Muslims have witnessed Islamic teachings in action in this society and can decide for themselves whether or not they do apply to the challenges of our time. If they do, then there is no problem for them, but if they don't and we imperfect humans have discovered this fact and made this observation, don't we think that He who is the creator has also recognized this and sent new guidance for us? The challenge then remains in the discovery of this message and the application of its teachings to the problems of our time.
Masoud, your number 3 on the list shows your understanding. I also like that you do know that science is not the answer to everything. Humans's ego tells them they know it all and they can see everything through their small brain. I believe there is just so much we cant see, even if it is in front of our eyes.
Lordi - well said - except Mohammad did not write anything.....It was Osman who put together Ghoraan - as a manual on how to format individuals to help him expand his empire.
Meehandoost Jaan - I believe there is a god - not the way religion describes it - but as Zartosht and Buda describe it...the collective intelligence of the universe. I also believe any one of us can act and talk godly and be his messangers.
Meehandoost Jaan - I believe there is a god - not the way religion describes it - but as Zartosht and Buda describe it...the collective intelligence of the universe. I also believe any one of us can act and talk godly and be his messangers.
Lordi jaan, I'm not sure if you were being sarcastic here or not. With all due respect calling Zartosht a "fire worshipper" is very ignorant. This is the sort of bullshit hezbollahis have been throwing around to make their islam fee superior. Zoroastrians do not "worship" fire. Fire is "moghaddas" in their religion because of its symbolism. Fire was a symbol of purity. In zoroastrianism it is also a source of "light". If you have a look at all types of religion and spirituality groups, goodness is associates with light and darkness is associated with evil. This all has its roots in Zoroastrianism.
Calling Zartoshtis "fire worshippers" is akin to calling shiite muslims "clay worshippers" because they put their heads on a "mohr" when praying and even kiss it!
Calling Zartoshtis "fire worshippers" is akin to calling shiite muslims "clay worshippers" because they put their heads on a "mohr" when praying and even kiss it!
Meanwhile, Islam's Latest Contributions to Peace:
"Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless
to the unbelievers but merciful to one another" Quran 48:29
2011.09.18 (Haider Khan, Pakistan) - Three are killed when terrorists open up on a passenger bus with automatic weapons.
2011.09.17 (Akka Khel, Pakistan) - Four members of a peace committee are among five killed at point-blank range by fundamentalist gunmen.
2011.09.17 (Faryab, Afghanistan) - Five children are among nine civilians ripped to pieces by a Taliban bomb.
2011.09.16 (Maiduguri, Nigeria) - Boko Haram radicals kill one of their own for holding peace talks.
2011.09.16 (Yala, Thailand) - Islamists gun down two persons at a mosque.
2011.09.16 (Narathiwat, Thailand) - Four tourists, including a 3-year-old child and his grandparents, are blown apart by Islamic bombers
"Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless
to the unbelievers but merciful to one another" Quran 48:29
2011.09.18 (Haider Khan, Pakistan) - Three are killed when terrorists open up on a passenger bus with automatic weapons.
2011.09.17 (Akka Khel, Pakistan) - Four members of a peace committee are among five killed at point-blank range by fundamentalist gunmen.
2011.09.17 (Faryab, Afghanistan) - Five children are among nine civilians ripped to pieces by a Taliban bomb.
2011.09.16 (Maiduguri, Nigeria) - Boko Haram radicals kill one of their own for holding peace talks.
2011.09.16 (Yala, Thailand) - Islamists gun down two persons at a mosque.
2011.09.16 (Narathiwat, Thailand) - Four tourists, including a 3-year-old child and his grandparents, are blown apart by Islamic bombers
