On Lance Armstrong

[Mahdi]

I made fun of people back in the days because they said he didn't dope. Of course he doped, but so did everyone else. Just look at people finishing behind him, they all got banned for doping or for being involved in doping. Hence, the belief that one guy didn't dope while everyone else did but was miles better was ridiculous.

However, this shit is even more ridiculous. You want to strip him off the titles? Word son? So 3 titles for Ullrich then...oh wait..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Ullrich#Operaci.C3.B3n_Puerto_doping_case

So seriously, there's one champ of cycling and that was Lance from Texas...salute to the greatest who ever did it! Frogeaters keep eating frogs!

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5UV2G2L1tE">[video=youtube;T5UV2G2L1tE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5UV2G2L1tE[/video]

 

[payan]

man beat the cancer, inspired milions in the world.7 times winners .with all then we see the haters in this world .

 

[daei24]

Sure a lot of people do that and cyclist a lot

But it does not give them a reason not to get punished.

I do Sports a lot and no matter how long it takes I will do my best to get better and better and better

so when all those who do it with doping, they have to get banned no matter what

so people who do it in a clean way, will have a chance at the end to win a title even if it did not break any WC or whatever.

End of the story.

PS: Yes he had cancer and was strong and won the battle. Good for him. Still no reason to dope
And I hope they spent more money and find those shalatans

 

[Fole_Penalt]

Lance's story confirms a few things. He was tested hundreds upon hundreds of times, in competition and off competition. He never tested positive. However, other evidence leaves little doubt that he doped. So, basically anyone who wishes to dope can do so without being caught, as long as he has some basic knowledge.

Doping is universal in cycling. It is, however not limited to cycling. At the highest level of competition, for most sports, nearly everyone dopes.

Iran in the Olympics is a good example. Iran, used to win a fair share in weight lifting decades ago. Then nothing, absolutely nothing. Then since the Rezazadeh era we are winning again. All it really means is that Iran has caught up in doping with the rest of the doping kings such as Russia and China. Russian coach comes to Iran; it really is not about new training techniques, it is about doping; the results show. Can you imagine the extent of doping in fascist countries such as Russia and China? Everyone and I mean E-V-E-R-Y one of those athletes should be assumed to have doped unless proven otherwise.

Finally, do you think if it were any other country but the USA you would see this type of undressing of a national hero. No way, no how, no chance. If it were in China, they would execute anyone who would suggest their national hero doped. As corrupt as the US may be, it still is the most transparent country you can find in all sorts of ways.

 

[Mahdi]

Lance's story confirms a few things. He was tested hundreds upon hundreds of times, in competition and off competition. He never tested positive. However, other evidence leaves little doubt that he doped. So, basically anyone who wishes to dope can do so without being caught, as long as he has some basic knowledge.

Doping is universal in cycling. It is, however not limited to cycling. At the highest level of competition, for most sports, nearly everyone dopes.

Iran in the Olympics is a good example. Iran, used to win a fair share in weight lifting decades ago. Then nothing, absolutely nothing. Then since the Rezazadeh era we are winning again. All it really means is that Iran has caught up in doping with the rest of the doping kings such as Russia and China. Russian coach comes to Iran; it really is not about new training techniques, it is about doping; the results show. Can you imagine the extent of doping in fascist countries such as Russia and China? Everyone and I mean E-V-E-R-Y one of those athletes should be assumed to have doped unless proven otherwise.

Finally, do you think if it were any other country but the USA you would see this type of undressing of a national hero. No way, no how, no chance. If it were in China, they would execute anyone who would suggest their national hero doped. As corrupt as the US may be, it still is the most transparent country you can find in all sorts of ways.

spot on and well said..it also happened with Marion Jones, although, to be honest, they took that too far, even stripping her off basketball achievements in college, which was ridiculous.

The problem with doping is one of asymmetric information. Dopers are always ahead of controllers because controllers need to catch up with them on new ways to test and prove doping. My bigger problem is with future health issues of athletes because although the doping network is pretty strong and they obviously use the best facilities, it is still run as a shady business not controlled. You saw what happened to Flo-Jo and her death.

Personally, I believe that medical doping should be allowed and more importantly be controlled. I mean, everyone does it and everyone knows that everyone does it, why the charade? Instead time and energy should be spent on controlling genetic doping and stuff like that that will come in the future or already is and will be very very harmful. Right now, this is getting ridiculous.

 

[payan]

thanks fp,and mahdi .
in last 50 years 100,100's of athletes did obvious doping and got away with it .
do you believe if anyone decency to give up all fames,medals,compensation return ,no .
the time all most ,i am saying almost everyeach biker in tour de france did dope .so they given up .the beautiful tour almost died .then new era started with lance who put the tour on the map again .
in 7 times wining all,and as a stage wining he was tested ,like others.in so many stage he was tested and all came negative . now all of sudden some claimed something and lance got tired of all the shiiiit .
if all the tour de france bikers have decency which i believ they do,then they all should return their prizes and ban the tour for disrespecting the guy who was a reason the tour got more attention,more money ,more publicities ,commerical .and lance was the guy in last 10 years .

 

[Fole_Penalt]

spot on and well said..it also happened with Marion Jones, although, to be honest, they took that too far, even stripping her off basketball achievements in college, which was ridiculous.

The problem with doping is one of asymmetric information. Dopers are always ahead of controllers because controllers need to catch up with them on new ways to test and prove doping. My bigger problem is with future health issues of athletes because although the doping network is pretty strong and they obviously use the best facilities, it is still run as a shady business not controlled. You saw what happened to Flo-Jo and her death.

Personally, I believe that medical doping should be allowed and more importantly be controlled. I mean, everyone does it and everyone knows that everyone does it, why the charade? Instead time and energy should be spent on controlling genetic doping and stuff like that that will come in the future or already is and will be very very harmful. Right now, this is getting ridiculous.

Yes Mahdi jaan, perhaps that is the right direction to go but I am not certain about it. Perhaps the solution you are suggesting is the way to go plus a large campaign to highlight the long-term dangers and unknowns with doping for athletes to inform the many thousands of athletes who may wish to emulate the very top ones. It really is a tough problem and personally I have not heard of or formulated a plan that I feel half comfortable with.

 

[daei24]

I do not think that medical doping is the right answer because some not fortune countries will have a disadvantage and how can you have a fair game when some countries have better medical sources than others.

More pressure and more elemination needs to be done no matter where such athlete comes from.
Weight lifitng is one of the most prestigues discipline during olympics but again Iran won it even though many other countries want that medal badly. So how come US or even England didnt get it. And do not tell me US and Co. do not have coaches and athletes to pump them with good dope.

It is so sad that this kind of thinking exist that doping is the best way to have good sports out there. Yes Lance got tested during his peak time and did not get caught. Reason is Epo doping was in the past not easy to be caught as recent, more sophisticated method of analysis has been established and I am sure in the near future we will have more professional athlete on the doping list who already won tons of medals.

Also keep in mind those kind of drugs even if they are medical controlled have severe side effects which can harm many. Sure you do not read and see those victims but I have seen them as tons of other people in charge have seen them.

So more money and more research has to be done so that we have a clean sport out there because nothing is more fortune and professional to win a gold medal with total hard training with passion and diligency.

 

[jspworld]

http://johnsalehprice.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/is-anti-doping-in-sport-proving-to-be.html

Lance said in the last couple of days that he no longer wished to pursue the legal proceedings as he fears it would have caused bother and distress to his family and fanbase. Regardless, he will always be the greatest sportsman of our generation and I for one will always admire his transformation. He was on his death bed but then he proved everyone that winning seven Tour de France's is possible. Anti-doping cannot wait to ruin a career but fellow cyclists must also support Lance during this time and protest against this US agency.

 

[R.BAGGIO]

this whole thing is ridiculous, why would they strip the man of his titles. You can take all the EPO and HGH you want but it won't make you Lance Armstrong. These cyclists on Tour de France have been taking drugs for 40 years now. I'm supposed to be shocked and renounce his achievements now?

I think future generations will think of us as 'allaf' who had nothing better to do than have congressional hearings on steroid use in baseball.

what are they gonna do when genetic engineering and gene modification comes into full force ? nothing

this whole thing is like the war on drugs, it's absolutely hopeless and does more harm than good.

 

[IEI]

this whole thing is ridiculous, why would they strip the man of his titles. You can take all the EPO and HGH you want but it won't make you Lance Armstrong. These cyclists on Tour de France have been taking drugs for 40 years now. I'm supposed to be shocked and renounce his achievements now?

I think future generations will think of us as 'allaf' who had nothing better to do than have congressional hearings on steroid use in baseball.

what are they gonna do when genetic engineering and gene modification comes into full force ? nothing

this whole thing is like the war on drugs, it's absolutely hopeless and does more harm than good.

I think we are mixing up two things: personal greatness with fairness ....

Personally think that dopping can't make you the world champion 7 times in a row, nevertheless, it is wrong and against the rule of the game. If the doping agency can't detect the drug at the time, it doesn't make it right .... but once you got caught, be a man and accept your fault ...
I hate the attitude that since everyone else does something wrong, then it is the right thing to do ....
The fact that he got the spotlight from athletes that were working very hard at the time, and that is wrong in my opinion and he deserves it.
The competeition amont the first 10 people in Tour de France is within minutes and seconds ... and others deseved to win it ...
Don't tell me every single athelete is not clean ... that is not the way it is ...

 

[IEI]

I do not think that medical doping is the right answer because some not fortune countries will have a disadvantage and how can you have a fair game when some countries have better medical sources than others.

More pressure and more elemination needs to be done no matter where such athlete comes from.
Weight lifitng is one of the most prestigues discipline during olympics but again Iran won it even though many other countries want that medal badly. So how come US or even England didnt get it. And do not tell me US and Co. do not have coaches and athletes to pump them with good dope.

It is so sad that this kind of thinking exist that doping is the best way to have good sports out there. Yes Lance got tested during his peak time and did not get caught. Reason is Epo doping was in the past not easy to be caught as recent, more sophisticated method of analysis has been established and I am sure in the near future we will have more professional athlete on the doping list who already won tons of medals.

Also keep in mind those kind of drugs even if they are medical controlled have severe side effects which can harm many. Sure you do not read and see those victims but I have seen them as tons of other people in charge have seen them.

So more money and more research has to be done so that we have a clean sport out there because nothing is more fortune and professional to win a gold medal with total hard training with passion and diligency.

Great Post, 100% agreed

 

[daei24]

I think we are mixing up two things: personal greatness with fairness ....

Personally think that dopping can't make you the world champion 7 times in a row, nevertheless, it is wrong and against the rule of the game. If the doping agency can't detect the drug at the time, it doesn't make it right .... but once you got caught, be a man and accept your fault ...
I hate the attitude that since everyone else does something wrong, then it is the right thing to do ....
The fact that he got the spotlight from athletes that were working very hard at the time, and that is wrong in my opinion and he deserves it.
The competeition amont the first 10 people in Tour de France is within minutes and seconds ... and others deseved to win it ...
Don't tell me every single athelete is not clean ... that is not the way it is ...

Finally someone with a sharp brain is entering this thread. Thank you for this post.

 

[R.BAGGIO]

I think we are mixing up two things: personal greatness with fairness ....<br>
<br>
Personally think that dopping can't make you the world champion 7 times in a row, nevertheless, it is wrong and against the rule of the game. If the doping agency can't detect the drug at the time, it doesn't make it right .... but once you got caught, be a man and accept your fault ...<br>
I hate the attitude that since everyone else does something wrong, then it is the right thing to do ....<br>
The fact that he got the spotlight from athletes that were working very hard at the time, and that is wrong in my opinion and he deserves it.<br>
The competeition amont the first 10 people in Tour de France is within minutes and seconds ... and others deseved to win it ...<br>
Don't tell me every single athelete is not clean ... that is not the way it is ...

I'm telling you this, the top 10 cyclists are all on drugs, some get caught some don't but all the top guys are on drugs.

Almost all winners of Tour de France have been implicated by doping. The tour has always been synonymous with PED use. Some of these guys get up in the middle of the night and go for a ride because their red blood cell counts are so high their hearts are literally going to explode if they don't. Everyone of those riders is aware of this and knows that they will never win the Tour without being on something. I doubt the Tour de France organizers even want to stop it, they let Armstrong race many times with positive test results and they totally swept it under the rug later.

Now for some reason the USADA has a hard on for Armstrong, but the reality is that he tested positive many times during his reign as champ but the people in high places did not want him or any of their top riders to be exposed as cheats. It is not good for business.

Now you can point fingers and yell all you want but I'm not going to fake outrage and point the finger at the 21st century Panama Lewis and legitimize what can only be called complete and utter fucking hypocrisy.

 

[Mahdi]

I'm telling you this, the top 10 cyclists are all on drugs, some get caught some don't but all the top guys are on drugs.

Almost all winners of Tour de France have been implicated by doping. The tour has always been synonymous with PED use. Some of these guys get up in the middle of the night and go for a ride because their red blood cell counts are so high their hearts are literally going to explode if they don't. Everyone of those riders is aware of this and knows that they will never win the Tour without being on something. I doubt the Tour de France organizers even want to stop it, they let Armstrong race many times with positive test results and they totally swept it under the rug later.

Now for some reason the USADA has a hard on for Armstrong, but the reality is that he tested positive many times during his reign as champ but the people in high places did not want him or any of their top riders to be exposed as cheats. It is not good for business.

Now you can point fingers and yell all you want but I'm not going to fake outrage and point the finger at the 21st century Panama Lewis and legitimize what can only be called complete and utter fucking hypocrisy.

Which is the whole point...thank you!

Further, the point is not whether doping and cheating are right or wrong. The point is to minimize the side effects and control the damage it could do. BALCO is another such case. No one ever said doping was right. The point is that it shouldn't hurt the future health of athletes, specially young athletes who get forced in and more importantly, since resources to fight against doping are scarce, it should be concentrated on doping in areas that can actually have terrible consequences. You don't need a "sharp brain" to see that, it's a no brainer.

Same with drugs...see how good Hamsterdam worked.

 

[Playboy]

it's official now.lance armstrong is a cheat,liar and a bully.i would even look into his cancer claim with these revelations. "a program in which it said Armstrong played a key role by doping, supplying doping products and demanding that his top teammates dope so he could be successful. " http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/11/s...e-against-lance-armstrong.html?pagewanted=all

 

[Behrooz_C]

I stopped viewing most sporting events with the same clean eye a long time ago. My perspective changed completely with the Ben Johnson story at the time because to me it wasn't logical that he was the only person taking illegal substances. I would go as far as to say that even the great Carl Lewis was involved. Linford Christie who was in the same race and was handed a silver medal as a result of Johnson's disqualification was much later found to be a cheat too which confirmed my suspicion.

But anyway, when you hear past stars who you once thought were clean come out one by one and prove to be under the influence, then you wonder what is before your eyes. Does anyone now really believe that Carl Lewis was clean? I don't.

Today when I watch the Olympics I don't automatically assume that they are all clean unless they get caught otherwise. I assume they are all under the influence of some illegal substance but the tests aren't good enough to detect it. It just makes more sense to me that way.

It makes me laugh when commentators behave as though these guys are clean. It's ridiculous and naive.

 

[Mahdi]

I stopped viewing most sporting events with the same clean eye a long time ago. My perspective changed completely with the Ben Johnson story at the time because to me it wasn't logical that he was the only person taking illegal substances. I would go as far as to say that even the great Carl Lewis was involved. Linford Christie who was in the same race and was handed a silver medal as a result of Johnson's disqualification was much later found to be a cheat too which confirmed my suspicion.

But anyway, when you hear past stars who you once thought were clean come out one by one and prove to be under the influence, then you wonder what is before your eyes. Does anyone now really believe that Carl Lewis was clean? I don't.

Today when I watch the Olympics I don't automatically assume that they are all clean unless they get caught otherwise. I assume they are all under the influence of some illegal substance but the tests aren't good enough to detect it. It just makes more sense to me that way.

It makes me laugh when commentators behave as though these guys are clean. It's ridiculous and naive.

try to get a copy of 9.79. great sports documentary on the 1988 race.

 

[mashdi]

I'm telling you this, the top 10 cyclists are all on drugs, some get caught some don't but all the top guys are on drugs.

Almost all winners of Tour de France have been implicated by doping. The tour has always been synonymous with PED use. Some of these guys get up in the middle of the night and go for a ride because their red blood cell counts are so high their hearts are literally going to explode if they don't. Everyone of those riders is aware of this and knows that they will never win the Tour without being on something. I doubt the Tour de France organizers even want to stop it, they let Armstrong race many times with positive test results and they totally swept it under the rug later.

Now for some reason the USADA has a hard on for Armstrong, but the reality is that he tested positive many times during his reign as champ but the people in high places did not want him or any of their top riders to be exposed as cheats. It is not good for business.

Now you can point fingers and yell all you want but I'm not going to fake outrage and point the finger at the 21st century Panama Lewis and legitimize what can only be called complete and utter fucking hypocrisy.

: یک ضربُ المثل ِ قدیمی را بَرات می گم که هم در این مورد مصداق داره و هم در خیلی از موارد ِ دیگر میشه استفاده کرد

گر حُکم شَوَد که مَست گیرَند
در شهر هر آنکه هست گیرند