Thank you for posting these. Injustices are injustices regardless of where it happens. It is horrible what is happening to these people, living in cages and having no rights.
I am hoping Obama will be able to stand his ground this time and not get smashed by the Republicans and bunch of democrats in the congress who stopped him and Hill Clinton, last time from trying to force stop on settlements and back to negotiations.
I am hoping Obama will be able to stand his ground this time and not get smashed by the Republicans and bunch of democrats in the congress who stopped him and Hill Clinton, last time from trying to force stop on settlements and back to negotiations.
The problem is that Arash has no moral authority to come and expose such video since he himself supports a regime that commits injustices on large scale to Iranian people.
Otherwise, injustice is injustice no matter where. But an IR supporter expressing concern? dont make me laugh. For them it is great that these injustices are happening to Palestnians since it gives them excuse to try to justify their own existence. Remember IR: pro-hejab, anti-US, anti Israel. If these dont exist, their regime does essentially not exist.
Otherwise, injustice is injustice no matter where. But an IR supporter expressing concern? dont make me laugh. For them it is great that these injustices are happening to Palestnians since it gives them excuse to try to justify their own existence. Remember IR: pro-hejab, anti-US, anti Israel. If these dont exist, their regime does essentially not exist.
To give an example so it can be understood, imagine a rapist who has raped 100 women come out and complain about another rapist who has just raped someone. You would be like what the F***. Oh wait, you regime supporters have raped Iranian women and men during the last protest to stay in power.
One needs moral authority to post a video?!
Thank you all for your great reasoning and trying to explain it with examples.
I believe the technical term for the views expressed above is called Ad hominem tu quoque which is essentially an informal fallacy or in simple lay terms an irrelevant argument.
From Wikipedia:
Ad hominem tu quoque (literally: "You also") refers to a claim that the source making the argument has spoken or acted in a way inconsistent with the argument. In particular, if Source A criticizes the actions of Source B, a tu quoque response is that Source A has acted in the same way. This argument is fallacious because it does not disprove the argument; if the premise is true then Source A may be a hypocrite, but this does not make the statement less credible from a logical perspective. Indeed, Source A may be in a position to provide personal testimony to support the argument.
For example, a father may tell his son not to start smoking as he will regret it when he is older, and the son may point out that his father is or was a smoker. This does not alter the fact that his son may regret smoking when he is older.
And mind you in this case Arash hasn't even made any comment or argument other than posting a video by someone else!
I believe the technical term for the views expressed above is called Ad hominem tu quoque which is essentially an informal fallacy or in simple lay terms an irrelevant argument.
From Wikipedia:
Ad hominem tu quoque (literally: "You also") refers to a claim that the source making the argument has spoken or acted in a way inconsistent with the argument. In particular, if Source A criticizes the actions of Source B, a tu quoque response is that Source A has acted in the same way. This argument is fallacious because it does not disprove the argument; if the premise is true then Source A may be a hypocrite, but this does not make the statement less credible from a logical perspective. Indeed, Source A may be in a position to provide personal testimony to support the argument.
For example, a father may tell his son not to start smoking as he will regret it when he is older, and the son may point out that his father is or was a smoker. This does not alter the fact that his son may regret smoking when he is older.
And mind you in this case Arash hasn't even made any comment or argument other than posting a video by someone else!
In political philosophy I have come across it often. They call it moral authority, believe me.
Here is an example from wikiansweres: Here's the best explanation of moral authority I've heard. Moral authority is having the personal credibility with your target group that makes your words persuasive to them. Moral authority is achieved when your target group perceives that you have these 2 qualities: integrity and compassion. Hope this helps.
Another thing is that me and you both know what Arash aim was by posting such video.
Here is an example from wikiansweres: Here's the best explanation of moral authority I've heard. Moral authority is having the personal credibility with your target group that makes your words persuasive to them. Moral authority is achieved when your target group perceives that you have these 2 qualities: integrity and compassion. Hope this helps.
Another thing is that me and you both know what Arash aim was by posting such video.
But you dragged your feet in. Der
It is still relevant. Your types do not have any moral authority to cry foul for any oppressed as you represent more vicious oppressors. Ashk temsah......................
واستون صرف کنه، خود شما***ها بیشتر از اسرائیل خار مادر فلسطینی***ها رو یکی*** می***کنید
همونطور که به مردم ایران کردید
It is still relevant. Your types do not have any moral authority to cry foul for any oppressed as you represent more vicious oppressors. Ashk temsah......................
واستون صرف کنه، خود شما***ها بیشتر از اسرائیل خار مادر فلسطینی***ها رو یکی*** می***کنید
همونطور که به مردم ایران کردید
I thought the whole point of the video was that you relate to badbakhts living in ghorbat? Now you're laughing at them?! That aside, when was the last time you posted a video of an Iranian mother living in a real prison in Iran under much worse conditions than this? If you were trying to be informative or make a point, why not draw attention to the plight of those in your backyard rather than those living thousands of miles away? Are those people thousands of miles away being informative or making a point about the plight of the poor, the imprisoned and the tortured in your country? Just some questions to think about my friend.
In bache por ro ha are end of rezalat.
Not a single mention on the latest victim of their master's brutality, Sattar Beheshti, which incidentally was tortured and killed by the unit that these razil people have been promoting HERE as Iranian Cyber Army ( which is actually internet police of nirohaye entezami), but ashk temsah for the people that they will be selling out at the moment's notice if it benefits them.
And sad to see that they are Partially responsible for the miserable situation that Palestinians go through........................
Not a single mention on the latest victim of their master's brutality, Sattar Beheshti, which incidentally was tortured and killed by the unit that these razil people have been promoting HERE as Iranian Cyber Army ( which is actually internet police of nirohaye entezami), but ashk temsah for the people that they will be selling out at the moment's notice if it benefits them.
And sad to see that they are Partially responsible for the miserable situation that Palestinians go through........................
I try not to get too worked up about it biAzar jaan and atrribute it to years of being brainwashed and lack of a proper balanced education that teaches people to look at both sides of issues objectively. At some point in time, we have to start providing the right education and instilling that objective and inquisitive mentality in our friends if we're going to have any hope of living together in a peaceful nation and don't want to go down the same path as Syria. And today is better than tomorrow and already a day late!
I don't think there's any reason to get upset or worked up if one is confident of their own higher moral authority. As Ashtar likes to simplify, we should think of ourselves as parents and think of people who lack that moral backbone as our 5 year old twins. Telling them that they're stupid or constantly spanking them will never teach them to think, especially when they're used to an orphanage type system that tells them to follow without thinking. As Ashtar so eloquently argued in the other thread, it is the job of a guardian to instill critical thinking and morality in a child and if those two things haven't been instilled in our children, then maybe we should just take them out of the orphanage and be their new guardians and teach them the moral groundwork they so crave, particularly since they seem to relate to that very well!
I don't think there's any reason to get upset or worked up if one is confident of their own higher moral authority. As Ashtar likes to simplify, we should think of ourselves as parents and think of people who lack that moral backbone as our 5 year old twins. Telling them that they're stupid or constantly spanking them will never teach them to think, especially when they're used to an orphanage type system that tells them to follow without thinking. As Ashtar so eloquently argued in the other thread, it is the job of a guardian to instill critical thinking and morality in a child and if those two things haven't been instilled in our children, then maybe we should just take them out of the orphanage and be their new guardians and teach them the moral groundwork they so crave, particularly since they seem to relate to that very well!
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Behroo, I disagree. Being subjective and analytical is great virtue. But like anything else, there is a danger of becoming an extremist in taking the middle ground for the sake of just being preceived "fair and subjective".
5-6 years ago, I may have agreed with you.
Living in LA, working in LA, reluctantly I do have certain amount of exposure to individuals that have been advocates of the regime either ideologically, or self interest. I can see the patterns, changes in their outlook and recognize the patterns.
It is no longer the issue of being brainwashed or not having education.
This Arash kaman guy,or AKA shakheye holland, if true to his self claimed charachter is too young to be enduring years of being brainwashed by IRI ,out of all places in Holland. If he is who most suspect he is, the owner of charachter also has claimed of having a PHD, teaching at college level and making frequent European trips.....
The ashtar charachter also once claimed to be PHD level, getting education on Esat coast ( Boston area) at some point.
The last time I travelled in Iran, in Tehran or shahrestan, even Baghal va chaghal or people that you once feared of talking politics with, were critical of regime to some degree. The core members of omat hezbollah are more sincere than these guys..Chera rah door? within ruling establishment and through their own news outlets, once in a while you hear mild crtical look of their own kesafat kari. It has gotten to the point, only khaje hafez shirazi may be at dark with the atrocities commited by this regime.
But here you see a handfull of individuals that pop up for the sake of propoganda, diversion....They are free to express their propoganda. ut they are fooling none.
It is not being brain washed.They are beneficiaries of IRI system. They are protecting akhor! ke alafeshon ghat nashe. They are very well aware of what they are doing. The fact that they are, as a team, not engaged any longer in discussing most issues that matters in daily life of Iranians, such as inflation, human right abuses, internal political bezan bezan, control of Sepah on economy and social life, crack down on internet user,........ is very telling .
5-6 years ago, I may have agreed with you.
Living in LA, working in LA, reluctantly I do have certain amount of exposure to individuals that have been advocates of the regime either ideologically, or self interest. I can see the patterns, changes in their outlook and recognize the patterns.
It is no longer the issue of being brainwashed or not having education.
This Arash kaman guy,or AKA shakheye holland, if true to his self claimed charachter is too young to be enduring years of being brainwashed by IRI ,out of all places in Holland. If he is who most suspect he is, the owner of charachter also has claimed of having a PHD, teaching at college level and making frequent European trips.....
The ashtar charachter also once claimed to be PHD level, getting education on Esat coast ( Boston area) at some point.
The last time I travelled in Iran, in Tehran or shahrestan, even Baghal va chaghal or people that you once feared of talking politics with, were critical of regime to some degree. The core members of omat hezbollah are more sincere than these guys..Chera rah door? within ruling establishment and through their own news outlets, once in a while you hear mild crtical look of their own kesafat kari. It has gotten to the point, only khaje hafez shirazi may be at dark with the atrocities commited by this regime.
But here you see a handfull of individuals that pop up for the sake of propoganda, diversion....They are free to express their propoganda. ut they are fooling none.
It is not being brain washed.They are beneficiaries of IRI system. They are protecting akhor! ke alafeshon ghat nashe. They are very well aware of what they are doing. The fact that they are, as a team, not engaged any longer in discussing most issues that matters in daily life of Iranians, such as inflation, human right abuses, internal political bezan bezan, control of Sepah on economy and social life, crack down on internet user,........ is very telling .
Well, if this is the best the IR can put forth for propoganda BiAzar jaan, you just made my day and the task at hand is even easier than I thought! I think you're giving these guys a lot more credit than due, 'cause after all these years, I haven't seen them scoring a single point here and if anything, they always prove the opposite side of the argument. If you're right and there's some IR propoganda at work here, I say at least bring on the Marandi type for a little challenge!
To me, these guys just look like average Joes, like you and I, who may live outside Iran but certainly spent a good majority of their earlier years in Iran, under the IR system and living in very religous families. I see lots of them outside the virtual world too and I haven't seen anything to suggest the type of intelligent and co-ordinated effort like the one you're talking about - if anything they look more misinformed than informed and brifed on any given task!
To me, these guys just look like average Joes, like you and I, who may live outside Iran but certainly spent a good majority of their earlier years in Iran, under the IR system and living in very religous families. I see lots of them outside the virtual world too and I haven't seen anything to suggest the type of intelligent and co-ordinated effort like the one you're talking about - if anything they look more misinformed than informed and brifed on any given task!
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Well, if this is the best the IR can put forth for propoganda BiAzar jaan, you just made my day and the task at hand is even easier than I thought! I think you're giving these guys a lot more credit than due, 'cause after all these years, I haven't seen them scoring a single point here and if anything, they always prove the opposite side of the argument. If you're right and there's some IR propoganda at work here, I say at least bring on the Marandi type for a little challenge!
Is more like a sick obession with genisis in being loyal to the hand that fed them. They are not making their money by posting at ISP trying to convert 30-40 people traffic. It has gotten to the point that they enjoy just being in minority, spill a little "zahr" once in awhile....
If regime changed in Iran, they are most likely to be the first ones at the service of the new guys...I suspect most of those regime supporters in US , some how have been involved with Bonyad Alavi money for Scholarship reasons, building Masjid or other "cultural activities". By default they have become embassadors of IRI in a country that IRI does not have an embassy and has to spread their words and mission in a non convential ways. After a while ,no matter what the outlook, they become habitual nokar sefat.