Osama Bin Laden Dead!

[Silverton]

it's impossible in a sense that it's suicidal for the U.S administration..
that alone is a good reason to believe the story..

it is possible that they may have killed his double (as Fisk eluded to in his article), but even that doesn't mean that the story and the attempt was fake.

I guess we can all wait a little longer, I am sure the U.S intelligence will have enough proof to show to some people if not the whole public..

Baba, who is talking about killing doubles! Again, you're bringing up issues no one here is arguing for!! Who here said Osama's not dead? This is like the 4th or 5th time people have said this here.

Right - everything is suicide for American government, for bailing out the biggest and most corrupt corporations who got America into this crisis to lying about WMD in Iraq - all of this is "suicidal" - but nothing happened. The government can get away with the worst crimes because the citizenry is not proactive, falls for propaganda and are damn asleep watching MTV, reality shows and other nonsense.

I don't trust pathological liars - so excuse me for being a bit sceptical of the US government and their b.s. lies.

 

[BehzadB]

^^ baba jan, every post you have put up on this thread you have said they (the U.S) are liars, shady this and that.. then you say this? I don't get it.. it's as if you are angry with the U.S government and no matter what the news or story, you call it BS..

WMD in Iraq was not suicidal as Bush got re-elected.
But if this turns out to be some kind of fake operation or staged or whatever, it would be the end of Obama.. that's the difference.

 

[Silverton]

^^ They are liars. Through various evidence collecting I've done so far, I am leaning on this death on Sunday is staged. I think they killed him either long ago, or he died a long time ago and America might not have been involved. And trust me, they just raised gas by a ridiculous amount the last couple months, and people haven't made a peep. People are sleepwalking, you bring in a good orator, and good PR campaign, anyone can be president. Critical citizenry is largely dead in America, don't think people will cause hell even if they came out and said this was lie. They'd cover it up, and sugarcoat it with something else - people are too busy working, watching TV, consuming junk foods (which has negative effect on the mind), listening to music etc. to even be thinking about their government - those who they think are critical, watch "action news" like FOX, CNN etc. to get their news. Reading and investigating a matter is now seldom done.

This is worth watching:
[video=youtube;fpBPVkpmoeg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpBPVkpmoeg&feature=player_embedded[/video]

 

[Natural]

Baba, who is talking about killing doubles! Again, you're bringing up issues no one here is arguing for!! Who here said Osama's not dead? This is like the 4th or 5th time people have said this here. .

Please explain who they killed on sunday, whose body they threw in the sea, if you are claiming it was neither him (because he was killed before) or his double.

 

[biAzar]

Can some one simplify these conspiracy theories for me? Thanks in advance...
I'm interested to know what does US and particularly Obama have to gain at this juncture by falsification and how those goals are going to be achieved from now on.....

 

[Niloufar]

Can some one simplify these conspiracy theories for me? Thanks in advance...
I'm interested to know what does US and particularly Obama have to gain at this juncture by falsification and how those goals are going to be achieved from now on.....

There is no conspiracy theories here Biazar jan. but some valid questions. Considering this operation was a recent "kill order" by Obama that lead to Osama's death, raises question(as Robert Fisk questions as well) why it took U.S 10 yrs to put this as priority? raises lots of question from G.W.Bush govt in particular..and why U.S trusted Parkistani intelligence for so long, considering Osama's compound was few blocks away from Pakistani Military Academy!

and then burying him in the sea..so that today lunatic Taliban(whom were at some point supported by U.S intelligence to fight Soviet Union) announce, "Osama is alive, and they need proof of his dead body". http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110503/wl_nm/us_binladen_afghan_taliban

The worry is even with dead Osama, Taliban(along with other fanatics like IR) is not dead yet. For 10 years, U.S attacked Afghanistan,many Americans-Afghanis were killed to remove Taliban. but today, as we stand, Taliban is still so strong, that analysts argue the reason U.S buried him in sea, and advise U.S govt not to reveal the photos/evidence, bc showing a "shot dead Osama (as a Muslim) will erupt muslims and Taliban once again". badbakhti be in migan!

 

[biAzar]

Thank you Nilou, but your response doesn't address my specific question(s).
Simply put :
If he had died in the past and this "show" was put out, what is it that Obama and US are gaining by production of this show?
If he died Sunday, so what is the problem?
If he hasn't died, again, what is it that US and Obama are gaining by falsification?????

I kind of understand ultra right's skepticism, nothing that Obama does is without "agenda" and deceipt in their mind.
But is the left stock so much in Bush Era and anti Bush sentiment that is willing to go blind??????

 

[Flint]

Let me see if I can summarize some of my questions here:

1- Why would Osama hide in a high profile building, even a compound, that stands out from the rest? Doesn't it make sense to live in some nondescript location that blends with the rest of the town?

2- What were his escape routes? If you are smart enough to hatch 9/11, would you live on the third floor where the only way out is jumping out of the window?

3- He apparently lived there for 6 years. How long does it take for the CIA and the military to start wondering what is going on there? The building and its strange occupants scream look at me. Why do you need to track couriers?

4- The firefight went on for 40 minutes. Only couple of blocks away were military and police bases. What did they do when they heard the gunfight and helicopters landing? Nothing, apparently. This can only mean somebody let it go on, which means Pakis must have known.


The rest of the stuff about sea burial and releasing or not releasing pictures are all political.
5-

 

[Natural]

4- The firefight went on for 40 minutes. Only couple of blocks away were military and police bases. What did they do when they heard the gunfight and helicopters landing? Nothing, apparently. This can only mean somebody let it go on, which means Pakis must have known.

"Both US and Pakistani officials assert Pakistan was kept completely in the dark about the operation and reports suggest the tension lingered as the team led by US Navy Seals made a high-speed dash to Afghanistan at the end of it.

A suspicious Pakistani air force started scrambling jets, Mr Brennan said, leading to last-minute worries the US team could still be in danger."

 

[shawshank]

Photo from the White House situation room as the operation was taking place:

Is that khodabiamorz Khosro Shakibaei in the back?

 

[Flint]

"Both US and Pakistani officials assert Pakistan was kept completely in the dark about the operation and reports suggest the tension lingered as the team led by US Navy Seals made a high-speed dash to Afghanistan at the end of it.

A suspicious Pakistani air force started scrambling jets, Mr Brennan said, leading to last-minute worries the US team could still be in danger."

The air force need not get involved. I am talking about troops standing a mile away hearing a gunfight going on for 40 minutes, not to mention 4 helicopters hovering overhead. They just stood by watching?

 

[Natural]

The air force need not get involved. I am talking about troops standing a mile away hearing a gunfight going on for 40 minutes, not to mention 4 helicopters hovering overhead. They just stood by watching?

foreign helicopters are hovering in your air space and you say the air foce need not get involved?

 

[IranZamin]

I kind of understand ultra right's skepticism, nothing that Obama does is without "agenda" and deceipt in their mind.
But is the left stock so much in Bush Era and anti Bush sentiment that is willing to go blind??????

When one is neck deep in emotions, facts are merely an inconvenience that must be "doubted" no matter what the proof is.

I personally have no illusions about deceitful practices by America or just about any country engaged in strategic diplomacy. But there is a crowd out there, well-represented among our own people, that would rather get raped by Russia or China than be slapped by America. And a lot of these conspiracies and never-ending "questions" go right back to this oghdeh. Not that you'll ever get them to admit it though.

 

[DireStraits]

For what US stands for Obama has done a better job than Bush. Although the details were never releaved. I still doubt Ben Laden masterminded and planned 9/11.

 

[raminio05]

Can we please at least wait to get some more info before going all cookey? The 6 years number is an unnofficial one (i can't find the article but one of the generals that headed the operation said it was 6 months).

 

[shahinc]

I have not doubt that Osama was killed but the story that is being told right now has some many holes in it and is so incomplete and hence allowing all these questions being asked. For example this is from CNN today:

"When asked Tuesday why the decision was made to shoot and kill bin Laden if he was not armed, Carney responded that "he resisted" and that the U.S. personnel "handled themselves with the utmost professionalism." He did not explain how bin Laden resisted."

I mean really !! He resisted so you shoot him in the head while his wife gets shot in the leg !!! how about all the intelligence we could have get from him ??

This is what we are told today while yesterday we were told a different story:
"On Monday, President Barack Obama's top counterterrorism adviser, John Brennan, said bin Laden was resisting and had a weapon, though he added that it was unclear whether bin Laden had fired a shot."

I know some democrat friends here are taking some of these questions that have been put forward by some other members here SO PERSONAL like someone is insulting their mothers or something but you have to accept the facts that some of these questions are quite valid and the reason for all of this is, we HAVE NOT been told the WHOLE story yet so there is alot of room for speculations and ...

 

[Natural]

you have to accept the facts that some of these questions are quite valid and the reason for all of this is, we HAVE NOT been told the WHOLE story yet so there is alot of room for speculations and ...

So what's wrong with waiting for more details to come in and avoiding sounding like a nut job?

also, look at the cost benefit of killing or not killing bin laden. if osama posed even 1% of threat to your comandoes that are there basicly illegally without the permission of pakistan, and you're in the compound of the most wanted man in the world (without knowing 100% who and with what capability is in the building), do you take him out as quickly as possible (which has an amazing political benefit to you as a president) or do you wait and contemplate and risk your whole mission going down the drain and get internationally ridiculed.

 

[a123321r]

So what's wrong with waiting for more details to come in and avoiding sounding like a nut job?

also, look at the cost benefit of killing or not killing bin laden. if osama posed even 1% of threat to your comandoes that are there basicly illegally without the permission of pakistan, and you're in the compound of the most wanted man in the world (without knowing 100% who and with what capability is in the building), do you take him out as quickly as possible (which has an amazing political benefit to you as a president) or do you wait and contemplate and risk your whole mission going down the drain and get internationally ridiculed.

ok so you are saying for the government it is better to have a good presidential PR stunt rather than get intelligence about the most prolific terrorist organisation in the world from the world's most wanted man? ok to be fair you did also mention risk of life and diplomacy but i'd think that diplomacy with pakistan (although has ended up problematic for the us) is in the form of the americans dictating considering the state of the two countries.. so i don't think diplomacy would really be a problem and as far as loss of life.. again that's proven time and time again that is not a priority, which just leaves out your explanation of it being a PR stunt! right so the government would prefer a presidential PR stunt rather than getting intelligence from their most wanted man just to pull a PR stunt? ok wouldn't it make more sense that they either had him covered for a long time and were just deciding on a right time to pull the trigger and now was deemed to be such for whatever circumstances so they already had all the information they wanted out of him.. or they were actually keeping him on a short leash anyway with/without his own knowledge so basically there was nothing he knew that they'd be interested in.. and if they had him covered for a while (or forever).. it's not a stretch to say maybe he was already dead.. i mean once you open it up judging by fact that yes all governments lie but only the most powerful governments get away with the biggest lies i just don't see why you are so stunned that people have doubts about it! i mean obama has proved himself nothing like the persona he had created so there is no particular need to trust him any more than you would any other politician! i mean i don't really care either way, unless you could have some real insider information to actually know what's really happening it gets a bit pointless but i don't see any particular reason why i should trust the official version of any event! lol and yes i have been smoking!

 

[Flint]

Killing, rather than capturing, terrorists has been the Obama administration policy from the beginning. Reason? They don't know what to do with them. There is still no policy how to handle terrorists captured overseas. They are the victims of their own rhetoric. They can't put them up at Gitmo, they can't send them to third world allies and they can't bring them here. So, whack'em. Can you imagine what a circus a captured Bin Laden would be? He'd probably be acquitted because evidence was gathered illegally!

 

[footballeirani]

Honestly the more they tell us about the story the more questions I have. They seem to be changing their opinion or facts about pretty big events. For instance they first claimed that Bin Laden was using his wife as a human shield. Today they are saying Bin Laden's wife was alive and that he was not using her or the other woman as a human shield.

Then they claimed that Bin Laden was engaged and armed. Then today they changed that story as well and claimed that well he was not arm but he resisted. Masalan what was he doing? Throwing pillows at them in the bed room?

They have not released pictures of Bin Laden's dead body claiming the most recognizable one is pretty horrible since he has a huge open wound across his eyes. Then how did they ID him? Yea a woman there who was his wife said that was Bin Laden and his blown up face matched our pictures plus the guy was 6 feet 7.

However President Obama did not even wait for the DNA matching results to come back and announced that he was dead. Something smells. I am not saying he is not dead but it is just that this story needs more explaining.

Especially from the Pakistan side. and no I do not believe it for a second that we went in there without their knowledge and permission. Some people in the administration or press are just trying too hard to make this look like a more daring operation it seems like.