Reflect your thoughts on 22 Bahman in Iran

bardia

Bench Warmer
Oct 18, 2002
1,238
1
#61
Green Movement: تا وقتی ما زنده ایم ، تا وقتی امید زنده است ، تا وقتی انسانیت زنده است .جنبش سبز زنده است .برای دوباره بیشمار بودنمان کمی غیرت لازم است.برای دوباره می سازمت وطن کمی همت لازم است ،برای آزادی اما نه یک جان نه صد جان که جانها لازم است
 

spanx

Bench Warmer
Dec 19, 2005
1,310
0
#63
Peaceful demonstrations go somewhere if millions of people who hate the regime actually show up, instead of going on vacation ... These two people who they executed had a lot to do with lack of participation today ...
 

reza+

Ball Boy
Feb 19, 2004
354
0
#64
general... the protests will almost certainly die out...but the people who want more social/cultural/political rights are not going away ..... there is a significant section of our society who want more rights .... some want more.... things will never be the same again in iran in the future... i bet the iri high command are thinking of how to "safely" open up so events like the recent demos/protests do not happen again...

one other point.... u said in a different thread that mousavi has lost his support...i disagree.... if there was a truly "FREE" election tomorrow... i fully expect mousavi to increase his vote from last time ... but ahmadinejad would maybe just win by a very narrow majority... ahmadinejad's prmises have proved to be empty .... the economy is still bad ..worst than ever ...corruption has not been tackled... corrupt people have not been brought to court ... jobs have not been created in significant numbers.... cost of living is sky high.... so how has ahmadinejad succeeded in his promises... to get more votes? ahmadinejad has been a complete failure by his own standards .... that's the reality .... but he talks a good/simple talk (for the poor /religious)
 

shahinc

Legionnaire
May 8, 2005
6,745
1
#65
they were saying that from early morning the lebas shakhsi lat va loot were everywhere since the early hours of the morning wielding their chains on motorcycles.
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I agree with you but I don't think anyone here thought today will be the end. It is just some people expected to see a small step forward in dealing with IR.

For example, from the above, you can see that IR has leanred to how better control their troops by occupying the area well in advanced.

On the Other hand:

Despite such a scene, a good nimber of greens turned up but were scattered and unorganized and alot of them were arrested and beaten.
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We did exactly what we have been doing However, the difference is, this time, we did not even last as long and were not able to make any impact and hence, scattred much faster than before.

As I have always said the labor/poorer classes need to join this movement to make it successful and that has not happened yet.
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I agree and whose Job is this to make this happen ?? Whose job is this to expand the movement and make it attractive to these people !!!

With the econonomy taking its toll on those classes it is inevitable that it will happen.
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Not neccesserly. Again, we are reactive. We are hoping that AN's screw up, push people away from the other side and bring them to this side. We are not proactive. As an example, with the economy is the garabge, AN decided to increase the salary of some people right before the election. I actually met some people here in Canada who told me their family is going to vote for AN just because of that move !!!
 
May 12, 2007
8,093
11
#66
DS .... even with 70% living in towns ..the fact is the majority of them are poor/religious...and ahmadinejad's ideas appeal to them a great deal.... i swa it for myself in mashad (the second biggest city in iran) .... ahmadinejad appeared (to me) to have more support there (in the week before the election) ...

as i've said before.. the opposition needs to concentrate on ahmadinejad's election promises in the media inside iran (even if in limited ways) ....i.e fighting corruption, improving people's general level of wealth... helping the poor.... creating jobs ... and many more.... fight him on his own platform....out him for what he really is ...
Doing good for these people means hejab. You force hejab on ladies you are close to heaven.
If you really see what they really do for people in those areas you won't be impressed my friend. No I think the subject is freedom from IRI.
Remember we may be awaiting a war with US which is going to be much more costly than this.
 

Niloufar

Football Legend
Oct 19, 2002
29,626
23
#67
The thing is, the only thing that keeps the regim alive is that they have put ALL THEIR forces and EVERYTHING they have together to prevent a disaster. My questions is:

For how long can they keep having maximum forces on the streets on every special occassion?? A city can never be ruled in this way, and as soon as they cut down on their forces and chill out a little bit, people will strike back harder than ever and then its game over.

Its like a boxing match, you can hold up your guard really strong for a couple of rounds and stay up strong, but eventually your arms cant take it anymore and as soon as you drop your guard you are dead!
but thats the sad thing Soheil jan. IR, or any Dictatorship CAN and ARE FULLY CAPABLE of ruling the streets like that on every occasion..isnt Burma govt doing it? or North Korea? or China? or Russia doing it?!

All of these dictatorship govts, specially that all of them(N.Korea, IR, Russia, China) are now politically and economically so dependent on each other's survival(ie. Russia and China want IR to stay on for their own political-econ interest, Iran want N.Korea govt to stay on as it is to have a role model to follow its tactics against West).

So unfortunately, if our ppl dont show STRONG ENOUGH RESISTANCE (sorry but today wasnt strong enough, but their resistance in Ashoora surely was and thats how IR backed off a lot!), not only IR will gain more internal OPPRESSION Power to crackdown on slightest opposition(militant N.Korean style) but also due to getting lots of moral, political,eco support from Russia and China, IR could possibly Lengthen their reign for the next 30-40 yrs even..:(

its not unrealistic at all..we r not living in a perfect world..just like oppressive militant govt like N.Korea have managed to stay on for soooo long and no power and its ppl can remove him(through tactics they used so far!), so has China's communist oppressive regime, or Russia or Cuba..

As others perfectly said, here and in other thread, may be its time for us to rethink our strategy, bring down our high expectations and pull up our sleeves and get into it ALL TOGETHER, without any hesitation..unlike what we witnessed today..with a much smaller group with much less resistance..


but we can succeed if we first do a "reality check" on ourselves first, correct our cultural flaws and social/religious fears and get into the game with full unity and power..:)
 

khodam

Bench Warmer
Oct 18, 2002
2,458
88
Atlanta
#68
Fair enough. That is one approach to wait and see while the Dictators and Dictatorships end themself.
I never said that. I said we should be patient and wise. We should set realistic goals, have sound strategies, follow them through, and not become disillusioned.
 

Zob Ahan

Elite Member
Feb 4, 2005
17,476
2,231
#69
Shahin jan the so called reformers in Iran do a terrible job in trying to appeal to the working poor. I have to say Mousavi has done a better job than the traditional eslah talabs but still not good enough.
 
Jan 29, 2004
2,735
0
#70
Green Movement: تا وقتی ما زنده ایم ، تا وقتی امید زنده است ، تا وقتی انسانیت زنده است .جنبش سبز زنده است .برای دوباره بیشمار بودنمان کمی غیرت لازم است.برای دوباره می سازمت وطن کمی همت لازم است ،برای آزادی اما نه یک جان نه صد جان که جانها لازم است
عجب شما تو کالیفرنیا نشستی و راحت از اینجا دستور میدی که جانها لازم است

خوب یه کم خودت همت و غیرت کن پاشو برو ایران تظاهرات و الگو بشو برای دیگران

بله جانم

شعار دادن از راه دور بسی آسان بوود

حی علی خیر العمل...آمد موقع عمل....یالله
 

shahinc

Legionnaire
May 8, 2005
6,745
1
#71
but thats the sad thing Soheil jan. IR, or any Dictatorship CAN and ARE FULLY CAPABLE of ruling the streets like that on every occasion..isnt Burma govt doing it? or North Korea? or China? or Russia?!
Great examples :) and great points.

It took Russia 70 years to go the so called " Changes" and the result is that after another 20 years, an EX-KGB is runing the country.
 

bardia

Bench Warmer
Oct 18, 2002
1,238
1
#73
عجب شما تو کالیفرنیا نشستی و راحت از اینجا دستور میدی که جانها لازم است

خوب یه کم خودت همت و غیرت کن پاشو برو ایران تظاهرات و الگو بشو برای دیگران

بله جانم

شعار دادن از راه دور بسی آسان بوود

حی علی خیر العمل...آمد موقع عمل....یالله

This post is from Iran not from me.Sorry if this made youl feel the pain.

راستی*** شما کجا نشستی؟
 
Feb 22, 2005
6,884
9
#74
This is the reality check:

You cannot stop a movement once it starts. There will be ups and downs.

The important thing is what resources and methods the regime has to use to suppress the population. That is the measurement of the success of the movement. And not how many people were able to beat through the lines of the basijis to get to the demonstration areas.

The movement will continue to increase and expand, especially with correct sanctions placed, such as ban against IRanian regime leaders and members travel and other measures. They will continue to weaken while the movement continues to rise.
 
Jan 29, 2004
2,735
0
#75
I live in hot and sexy LA :cigar:
You should edit your post and mention that the quote is from someone in Iran, that way there won't be any misunderstanding! Further I hope whoever said that in Iran is practicising what he is preaching to others.
 
Feb 22, 2005
6,884
9
#77
Niloufar, but this is how every revolution and democracy comes about. Someone in some way is fighting to get something from it. Whether it is power, money, thinking their way is the right way, or just the feeling of giving. But no humans will be motivated to do anything without getting something from it.

Now, if their getting something helps the population move steps close towards democracy, or eases people lives, I am for it.

very enjoyable and insightful thread and posts guys. thanks for ur inputs.:)

u know today, was a very important day for our ppl and country.. TO LEARN A LESSON if you will..to RETHINK GREEN MOVEMENT's STRATEGY and to realize that Karoubi, Mousavi, Khatami, Kadivar, Sazgara,x,y ARE SIMPLY NOT DEVOTED AND PATRIOTIC AS THE PEOPLE(Green movement) to sacrifice their life and endanger their own family's security too Just to Get rid of Dictatorship..

U know when I attended Kadivar's speech here few days ago, I realized WHAT A HYPOCRITE All Roohaniyoon-ex IR officials are..no matter where they live(kadivar,Sazgara) how they portray themselves(khatami, mousavi) and how blunt they sound(Karoubi, Ardebili,etc)..

dont want to generalize particular group or something but seems to me that current SO CALLED GREEN MOVEMENT 'Leaders'(Karoubi,Mousavi, khatami, Kadivar,etc) ARE IN IT SO FAR BC THERE IS SOME BENEFIT for them to be in the game right now..be it, getting hidden support/negotation with USA, EU against AN, or be it for banking on ACQUIRING POWER step by step from current IR Govt, get rid of the govt, so our ppl be all happy, and then a "transitional govt"(like Bazargan team) take over and then these so called "opposition Roohaniyoon" hijack our ppl's movement and transition govt and take power of Iran, yet AGAIN through Religious Theocracy, just with a more reformist face..

I really think, we, as Iranians living outside Iran, play the most imp role here, putting pressure on our resident country's govts to Stop negotiating and supporting and doing business with IR and economically hurt them the most, then try to plan a massive "national strike" or some sort, to hurt IR's Oil Revenue and other means of income, so bankrupt them basically..

but seems like "peaceful demonstration" here and there just doesnt cut it for our ppl to get their rights back..:(
 
Apr 10, 2003
2,705
0
#78
I think we are mostly disappointed because our expectations were set so high for no reason. Other wise this was another victory for greens.

I think Eshghi mentioned this rightfully, if we are gonna change the regime there will NOT be any date and time for it. It will happen when the time is right. There is No way we can say on March 21st we will change the regime, unless you are Hakha. :)

So if we reset our expectations, I think we can look at today with more positive views.

Finally no doubt People attendance was not as good as expected and the fact we will wanted to concentrate in one place (Azadi) was a wrong strategy.
 
Oct 18, 2002
7,941
0
704 Houser
#80
To be honest I sort of expected that the regime would contain this protest. What is important to remember is that our will greater than theirs and if we keep at it they will eventually fade into the history books.