You know, it's beginning to sound like you're whining. Are you whining?! Stop it bro, parroting OReilly does not credibility make, as they say in Ohio.
Of note in this clip: Minute 0:45 and then starting with minute 1:25, where her pastor talks about Alaska being the last refuge for the rest of America, a clear reference to "Rapture," if you know your Book of Revelation.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k84m2orSOaM"]YouTube - The Sarah Palin Church Video Part Two[/ame]
Here's a report from CNN:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPmjQ_daNSQ"]YouTube - Palin church: Alaska 'refuge' for Armageddon[/ame]
Here's an article written by an episcopal cleric:
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=+1]The Politics of Tribulation [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=+2]Sarah Palin and the Rapture [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=+1]By RAYMOND J. LAWRENCE [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=+3]I[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]s this country ready for a president who is excited about and eagerly looking forward to the Rapture?[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]The Rapture, as it is called, is the imaginary day when Jesus will come down from the sky and lift up into heaven all those who are saved, leaving behind all unbelievers to destruction and death?
[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Anyone who believes in the Rapture scenario will likely interpret a catastrophic nuclear exchange as the opening scene of the Rapture. Thus an American president who believes in the Rapture would arguably have at least some ambivalence toward a nuclear holocaust. A believer in the Rapture with his or her fingers on the nuclear trigger might even be tempted to bring on the Rapture. The Rapture, for those who believe in it, is hardly a negative event. Rather it is culmination of everything they hope for, deliverance into the heavenly arms of Jesus.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Presumably Sarah Palin believes in the Rapture. It is one of the doctrines of her religion, and she has nowhere disavowed it. Are Americans ready to sleep at night with a President who longs for the Rapture?[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]The doctrine of the Rapture is a very recent invention within some of the radical fringe churches of Christianity. The Rapture doctrine is first cousin to millennialism, the belief promoted by various groups who have predicted that “the end is near.” Millennialist groups have popped up and burnt out from time to time throughout Christian history.
[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]The Rapture doctrine has no support in the historic Christianity of any of the main traditions - Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, or Protestant. The doctrine of the Rapture is cobbled together from several obscure, unrelated comments drawn from the epistles of Paul the Apostle. No credible biblical scholar in two thousand years of Christian history has taken seriously the Rapture doctrine, millennialism, or anything similar to it.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]The American people ought to be concerned about the religious beliefs of its political leaders as those beliefs may determine the life of the nation as a whole. It would be foolish of the American people not to be deeply concerned about the religious beliefs of Sara Palin, who may be elected Vice President for the oldest President ever inaugurated into the office.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]When John F. Kennedy campaigned for the presidency in 1960, many Americans were concerned about his commitment to the Roman Catholic Chruch. The fear was that he might be subject to directions from Catholic priests, or from the Pope, since he was a practicing Catholic, and Catholic leaders are typically quite directive and authoritarian. Kennedy answered that concern in speaking to the Houston Ministerial Association during the campaign. He declared boldly and correctly that no political leader should take directives from religious authorities whatsoever. He claimed a commitment to the strict separation of church and state. Kennedy’s assurances were widely accepted by the public.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]The Sarah Palin problem is somewhat different. The concern is not whether she would take orders from her pastor. That is unlikely. Her church does not typically exercise that sort of authority. The problem is both more simple and more worrisome. The public must presume that Palin believes in the Rapture, since it is one of the central doctrines of her church. Furthermore, the American people should assume that Palin’s personal religious beliefs will have consequences in her decision-making as a President. Both Palin and McCain have already made clear that their religious views about abortion will determine presidential appointments to the courts.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]The press and much of the public seem reluctant to engage Palin on her religious views, considering them to be a personal matter. In certain respects that is admirable restraint. We do not want candidates for office grilled on their private religious views as long as those views do not impinge upon the public welfare. Whether an individual believes in the bodily assumption of the Virgin Mary, predestination, or other such religious views should not be subject to political scrutiny. Such beliefs have no inherent impact on public policy.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]However, a belief in the Rapture as an historic event toward which history is rapidly moving, is a belief with potentially catastrophic political implications. Do the American people want a believer in such a fantasy to hold in her hands the nuclear power to destroy civilization?[/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=-1]Raymond J. Lawrence [/SIZE][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]is an Episcopal cleric, recently retired Director of Pastoral Care, New York Presbyterian Hospital, and author of numerous opinion pieces in newspapers in the U.S., and author of the recently published, [ame="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0275993736/counterpunchmaga"]Sexual Liberation: The Scandal of Christendom[/ame] (Praeger). He can be reached at: raymondlawrence@mac.com[/SIZE][/FONT]
From: http://www.counterpunch.org/lawrence09202008.html
The information is there Agha Kambujieh, one only needs a little curiosity to find it!
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I know what Rapture is my brother. I just wanted to see where you had heard or read that she said something about it. So far I see a clip from a Pasture (who obviously believes in Rapture since it is part of the doctrine of the religion) but where do hear her talk about that during the political scene? By this conclusion, everyone that attends church believes in Rapture and I am sure if you ask Mr. Obama he will not deny this doctrine. I personally don't see the point to be honest.
Not sure who is this "we" you are talking about, unless if you consider yourself a part of the propaganda talking heads at FOX. Do you? Freudian slip there ol' pal?! 
When for most of your life you've belonged to a church whose concrete ideology is "Alaska as a refuge for the rest of America and the world" in the final days, then yeah, you do believe in that literal interpretation. Nevermind that she's standing right there being blessed (or baptised, or whatever) when the other guy speaks of the final days (again a clear reference to Rapture), never mind that the church's own ad clearly references the coming of the end days.
Contrast this to churches that, say, preach the virtues of Judeo-Christian school of thought; stuff like "love thy neighbor," "Thou shall not kill," "turning the other cheek," and the rest of the beliefs that Bushies have found outdated and quaint.
Palin belongs to the former and Obama, along with the rest of the sane Christian world, belongs to the latter. Seems in his article at least one Christian cleric agrees with me, that is if you've somehow lived on a different plane of existence and have not been aware of another person's literal beliefs working to bring about the end days, Mr. Bush.
When for most of your life you've belonged to a church whose concrete ideology is "Alaska as a refuge for the rest of America and the world" in the final days, then yeah, you do believe in that literal interpretation. Nevermind that she's standing right there being blessed (or baptised, or whatever) when the other guy speaks of the final days (again a clear reference to Rapture), never mind that the church's own ad clearly references the coming of the end days.
Contrast this to churches that, say, preach the virtues of Judeo-Christian school of thought; stuff like "love thy neighbor," "Thou shall not kill," "turning the other cheek," and the rest of the beliefs that Bushies have found outdated and quaint.
Palin belongs to the former and Obama, along with the rest of the sane Christian world, belongs to the latter. Seems in his article at least one Christian cleric agrees with me, that is if you've somehow lived on a different plane of existence and have not been aware of another person's literal beliefs working to bring about the end days, Mr. Bush.
Not sure who is this "we" you are talking about, unless if you consider yourself a part of the propaganda talking heads at FOX. Do you? Freudian slip there ol' pal?!
When for most of your life you've belonged to a church whose concrete ideology is "Alaska as a refuge for the rest of America and the world" in the final days, then yeah, you do believe in that literal interpretation. Nevermind that she's standing right there being blessed (or baptised, or whatever) when the other guy speaks of the final days (again a clear reference to Rapture), never mind that the church's own ad clearly references the coming of the end days.
Contrast this to churches that, say, preach the virtues of Judeo-Christian school of thought; stuff like "love thy neighbor," "Thou shall not kill," "turning the other cheek," and the rest of the beliefs that Bushies have found outdated and quaint.
Palin belongs to the former and Obama, along with the rest of the sane Christian world, belongs to the latter. Seems in his article at least one Christian cleric agrees with me, that is if you've somehow lived on a different plane of existence and have not been aware of another person's literal beliefs working to bring about the end days, Mr. Bush.
When for most of your life you've belonged to a church whose concrete ideology is "Alaska as a refuge for the rest of America and the world" in the final days, then yeah, you do believe in that literal interpretation. Nevermind that she's standing right there being blessed (or baptised, or whatever) when the other guy speaks of the final days (again a clear reference to Rapture), never mind that the church's own ad clearly references the coming of the end days.
Contrast this to churches that, say, preach the virtues of Judeo-Christian school of thought; stuff like "love thy neighbor," "Thou shall not kill," "turning the other cheek," and the rest of the beliefs that Bushies have found outdated and quaint.
Palin belongs to the former and Obama, along with the rest of the sane Christian world, belongs to the latter. Seems in his article at least one Christian cleric agrees with me, that is if you've somehow lived on a different plane of existence and have not been aware of another person's literal beliefs working to bring about the end days, Mr. Bush.
Again I see you state your own opinion, where are the FACTS? Remeber that Obama was also part of a church that the pasture was a nut job. Do we need to revisit that one too? You are intellegent person my friend, when you say Palin is for the Rapture, then you should have some proof. BTW, the nut job pastor that happens to be in charge now, is a newer one. The original pasture was the older guy that has retired. She would have attended the other guys cermon most likley in the past.
BTW, I just want to let you know that I am neither for McCain nor Obama. I think they both suck equally bad. I do believe that Obama is No way ready or qualified to be President and had it not been Bush in office (Fucking up as bad as he did) Obama would never have had a chance to even be a contender (based on his inexperience). But I just don't get how fast the media is jumping on Palin (who also is no where qualified) but they seem to turn a blind eye to Obama and his qualification. I also don't get why so many of Iranians are so happy about Obama? What is so dear and refreshing about this man's opinion?
If you're asking me to show you a quote where she is giving a sermon about Rapture, then I can't provide that. What I can provide (information about which is freely available) is that she IS a member of a fundamentalist Christian church, that church DOES believe in the literal interpretation of the Rapture (please refer to the snippet below as well as the article by Raymond Lawrence above for the difference), she IS standing right there when the pastor refers to rapture as a concrete idea, and she has never distanced herself from that point of view ( in fact she gets a large portion of her support from fundamentalists). The traditional churches do not have the same interpretation, so no, Mr. Obama's church, say, would not hold the same fundamentalist view of Rapture.
These are the facts:
1- There is an end-of-day movement in America
2- This movement did gain huge momentum during Bush's presidency
3- Palin does belong to just such a church
4- These evangelical churches are working to get the Jews to Israel so that they can bring about the Rapture. Please refer to the "Left Behind" series as inspiration for these folks. Here's a plot summary from Wikipedia (note to Flint: I know, I know, its not FOX, not everyone pays much attention to such journalistic giants)
Based on dispensationalist interpretation of prophecies in the Biblical books of Revelation, Isaiah and Ezekiel, Left Behind tells the story of the end times, in which many have been "raptured," leaving the world shattered and chaotic. As people scramble for answers, a Romanian politician named Nicolae Jetty Carpathia rises to become secretary-general of the United Nations, promising to restore peace and stability to all nations. What most of the world does not realize is that Carpathia is actually the Antichrist foretold from the Bible. Coming to grips with the truth and becoming born-again Christians, Rayford Steele, his daughter Chloe, their pastor Bruce Barnes, and young journalist Cameron "Buck" Williams begin their quest as the Tribulation Force to help save the lost and prepare for the coming Tribulation, in which God will rain down judgment on the world for seven years.
These are the facts:
1- There is an end-of-day movement in America
2- This movement did gain huge momentum during Bush's presidency
3- Palin does belong to just such a church
4- These evangelical churches are working to get the Jews to Israel so that they can bring about the Rapture. Please refer to the "Left Behind" series as inspiration for these folks. Here's a plot summary from Wikipedia (note to Flint: I know, I know, its not FOX, not everyone pays much attention to such journalistic giants
)Based on dispensationalist interpretation of prophecies in the Biblical books of Revelation, Isaiah and Ezekiel, Left Behind tells the story of the end times, in which many have been "raptured," leaving the world shattered and chaotic. As people scramble for answers, a Romanian politician named Nicolae Jetty Carpathia rises to become secretary-general of the United Nations, promising to restore peace and stability to all nations. What most of the world does not realize is that Carpathia is actually the Antichrist foretold from the Bible. Coming to grips with the truth and becoming born-again Christians, Rayford Steele, his daughter Chloe, their pastor Bruce Barnes, and young journalist Cameron "Buck" Williams begin their quest as the Tribulation Force to help save the lost and prepare for the coming Tribulation, in which God will rain down judgment on the world for seven years.
It must be those tingles running up and down their legs. One more thing haven't seen mentioned. He may be the first US President who would be denied security clearance. I repeat He may be the first US President who would be denied security clearance. He couldn't sit in on meetings he himself supposed to chair! You'll be denied clearance for far far more trivial reasons than socializing with confessed bombers.
He may be the first US President who would be denied security clearance. He couldn't sit in on meetings he himself supposed to chair! You'll be denied clearance for far far more trivial reasons than socializing with confessed bombers.
It must be those tingles running up and down their legs. One more thing haven't seen mentioned. He may be the first US President who would be denied security clearance. I repeat He may be the first US President who would be denied security clearance. He couldn't sit in on meetings he himself supposed to chair! You'll be denied clearance for far far more trivial reasons than socializing with confessed bombers.
He may be the first US President who would be denied security clearance. He couldn't sit in on meetings he himself supposed to chair! You'll be denied clearance for far far more trivial reasons than socializing with confessed bombers.
I'm beginning to think you do actually get paid by OReilly!
If you're asking me to show you a quote where she is giving a sermon about Rapture, then I can't provide that. What I can provide (information about which is freely available) is that she IS a member of a fundamentalist Christian church, that church DOES believe in the literal interpretation of the Rapture (please refer to the snippet below as well as the article by Raymond Lawrence above for the difference), she IS standing right there when the pastor refers to rapture as a concrete idea, and she has never distanced herself from that point of view ( in fact she gets a large portion of her support from fundamentalists). The traditional churches do not have the same interpretation, so no, Mr. Obama's church, say, would not hold the same fundamentalist view of Rapture.
These are the facts:
1- There is an end-of-day movement in America
2- This movement did gain huge momentum during Bush's presidency
3- Palin does belong to just such a church
4- These evangelical churches are working to get the Jews to Israel so that they can bring about the Rapture. Please refer to the "Left Behind" series as inspiration for these folks. Here's a plot summary from Wikipedia (note to Flint: I know, I know, its not FOX, not everyone pays much attention to such journalistic giants)
Based on dispensationalist interpretation of prophecies in the Biblical books of Revelation, Isaiah and Ezekiel, Left Behind tells the story of the end times, in which many have been "raptured," leaving the world shattered and chaotic. As people scramble for answers, a Romanian politician named Nicolae Jetty Carpathia rises to become secretary-general of the United Nations, promising to restore peace and stability to all nations. What most of the world does not realize is that Carpathia is actually the Antichrist foretold from the Bible. Coming to grips with the truth and becoming born-again Christians, Rayford Steele, his daughter Chloe, their pastor Bruce Barnes, and young journalist Cameron "Buck" Williams begin their quest as the Tribulation Force to help save the lost and prepare for the coming Tribulation, in which God will rain down judgment on the world for seven years.
These are the facts:
1- There is an end-of-day movement in America
2- This movement did gain huge momentum during Bush's presidency
3- Palin does belong to just such a church
4- These evangelical churches are working to get the Jews to Israel so that they can bring about the Rapture. Please refer to the "Left Behind" series as inspiration for these folks. Here's a plot summary from Wikipedia (note to Flint: I know, I know, its not FOX, not everyone pays much attention to such journalistic giants
)Based on dispensationalist interpretation of prophecies in the Biblical books of Revelation, Isaiah and Ezekiel, Left Behind tells the story of the end times, in which many have been "raptured," leaving the world shattered and chaotic. As people scramble for answers, a Romanian politician named Nicolae Jetty Carpathia rises to become secretary-general of the United Nations, promising to restore peace and stability to all nations. What most of the world does not realize is that Carpathia is actually the Antichrist foretold from the Bible. Coming to grips with the truth and becoming born-again Christians, Rayford Steele, his daughter Chloe, their pastor Bruce Barnes, and young journalist Cameron "Buck" Williams begin their quest as the Tribulation Force to help save the lost and prepare for the coming Tribulation, in which God will rain down judgment on the world for seven years.
I am not sure how often you go to church or if you frequented churches. The concept of Rapture is indeed as close and dear to Christianity as any other concept. Dare I say that it could considered the most important one. Now sure there are moderate churches that concentrate on sermons that reflect cultural and social views that are closer to the parishioners, but if you have been to churches in the Bible belt or middle America, this is EXACTLY what the view points happens to be. Now I have gone to church in middle America (I am not Christian) but I wanted to study religions (since I hated them so much) and decided that I needed to learn about them first. Well I can tell you that if you are an average church goer in US you are exposed to this sort of sermon from the mound. Now that does not mean everyone agrees with the literal word, but a LOT of people tend to believe this to be the Word of GOD.
Like the vast majority of Muslims believe Koran is the Word of GOD. So again, this does not mean or prove that SHE BELIEVES THE literal words to be true. She like most politicians has to attend and cater to her constituents who represent this view point.
Also this is true that this movement gained a lot during Bush's era, but the fact is that the Christian Right has been moving towards political take over of America for over 4 decades.
So again, by listening to sound bites from Obama's church I would also hate to be a White person, since majority of the sermons were from an African American Centric point of view. Does this mean that OBAMA agrees with the same message that was used by Rev Wright?
Agha kambujieh,
There are two distinct theological views, or systems, prevalent in the US today: the Dispensationalist view and everything else. Whereas the former "places a heavy emphasis on prophecy and the study of the 'end times' " all others are more interpretive in their views of Christianity.
Dispensensationalists believe that Jews are the chosen people and that in the time of Rapture:
a small Jewish remnant along with a large Gentile number are to be saved and become part of the Church. Israel as a nation is partially blinded until the fullness of the Gentiles has come. Afterwards however, God’s continued care for the Jewish people as a nation will be revealed after the end of the church age when Israel will be restored to their land and will accept Jesus as their messiah (compare Zech 12:8-10) and therefore "all Israel shall be saved" (Rom 11:25-29). That is those of Israel who come to faith in Jesus Christ and physically live through the Great Tribulation will be saved from the Beast and the false prophet and all who come to attack Israel by the appearing and coming Jesus Christ Himself and bring Israel to national salvation.
Other churches do not share this interpretation. The New Covenant Theology, for example, "believes that the church replaces the Jews as God's chosen people."
It's in this particularly frightening way of actually looking to bring about the end-times that the Dispensationalists alarm the rest of the sane world.
Sarah Palin belongs to just such a Dispensationalist church. In fact, as you correctly pointed out, the great majority of the fundamentalist Chrsitian churches follow exactly this point of view; also shared by George Bush.
Though also not a Christian, I've also occasionally attended churches, both when growing up in the Midwest as well as the magnificent Roman Catholic churches later as an adult in San Francisco.
One of the ways one can tell about a preson's character is through the company they keep. If I socialized with, say, people who believed in Satanic views, then you could logically draw the conclusion that I, at least, have no objection to their belief system. Additionally, if I then also join in their ceremonies, it can then be safely deduced that I also BELIEVE in their school of thought.
As public figures, politicians are scrutinize much more thoroughly than me, a private citizen, and therefore this association is amplified several times in magnitude when applied to them.
Yes, Barack Obama did belong to a Rev. Wright's church that espoused radical ideas unpalatable to most Americans. The difference, however, is that he PUBLICLY denounced the views of the church to which he used to belong whereas Palin has not only not done so, she RELIES on the votes of the folks belonging to such Armageddon-ist churches.
In fact, it was precisely this "base" of the neoconservatives that Palin energized when she was chosen as the VP nominee. McCain and Palin rely on these votes. You cannot claim the same thing about Obama. His support is not mainly derived from some radical faction of the American society, represented by Rev. Wright's Church.
All quotes from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispensationalist
There are two distinct theological views, or systems, prevalent in the US today: the Dispensationalist view and everything else. Whereas the former "places a heavy emphasis on prophecy and the study of the 'end times' " all others are more interpretive in their views of Christianity.
Dispensensationalists believe that Jews are the chosen people and that in the time of Rapture:
a small Jewish remnant along with a large Gentile number are to be saved and become part of the Church. Israel as a nation is partially blinded until the fullness of the Gentiles has come. Afterwards however, God’s continued care for the Jewish people as a nation will be revealed after the end of the church age when Israel will be restored to their land and will accept Jesus as their messiah (compare Zech 12:8-10) and therefore "all Israel shall be saved" (Rom 11:25-29). That is those of Israel who come to faith in Jesus Christ and physically live through the Great Tribulation will be saved from the Beast and the false prophet and all who come to attack Israel by the appearing and coming Jesus Christ Himself and bring Israel to national salvation.
Other churches do not share this interpretation. The New Covenant Theology, for example, "believes that the church replaces the Jews as God's chosen people."
It's in this particularly frightening way of actually looking to bring about the end-times that the Dispensationalists alarm the rest of the sane world.
Sarah Palin belongs to just such a Dispensationalist church. In fact, as you correctly pointed out, the great majority of the fundamentalist Chrsitian churches follow exactly this point of view; also shared by George Bush.
Though also not a Christian, I've also occasionally attended churches, both when growing up in the Midwest as well as the magnificent Roman Catholic churches later as an adult in San Francisco.
One of the ways one can tell about a preson's character is through the company they keep. If I socialized with, say, people who believed in Satanic views, then you could logically draw the conclusion that I, at least, have no objection to their belief system. Additionally, if I then also join in their ceremonies, it can then be safely deduced that I also BELIEVE in their school of thought.
As public figures, politicians are scrutinize much more thoroughly than me, a private citizen, and therefore this association is amplified several times in magnitude when applied to them.
Yes, Barack Obama did belong to a Rev. Wright's church that espoused radical ideas unpalatable to most Americans. The difference, however, is that he PUBLICLY denounced the views of the church to which he used to belong whereas Palin has not only not done so, she RELIES on the votes of the folks belonging to such Armageddon-ist churches.
In fact, it was precisely this "base" of the neoconservatives that Palin energized when she was chosen as the VP nominee. McCain and Palin rely on these votes. You cannot claim the same thing about Obama. His support is not mainly derived from some radical faction of the American society, represented by Rev. Wright's Church.
All quotes from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispensationalist
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Between "impartial" networks like CNN, and throwing in SNL, MSNBC nightly line up, Leno, Letterman, Stewart, colbert and a horde of "news" people, Obama has a billion dollars worth of free advertising. In the mean time, the "party of the rich" is scarping the floor and looking under sofas for a few quarters to print their street fliers. Instead of regurgitating a tired story, Cafferty should find out why half of Obama's donors he is so proud of are secret?
Based on the quotes I see here, there are plenty of closet Fox watchers right here. While we are on that subject, who is the equivalent of Alan Colmes on Keith Olbermann and Chris Matthews? With Fox at least you know what you are getting. On the right sits Hannity, on the left Colmes. They have paid Democratic contributors appearing everywhere. They bring Geraldine Ferraro for crying out loud. Even party hacks like Terry McAullife makes regular appearances. There are no impostors like Cafferty and Matthews who get tingly feelings running up and down their legs.