Serie A, Ligue 1, Bundesliga & rest of the world ( News , Result , Goals & Videos) ( 2020-21)

Pooya

Administrator, Technical Team Director
Staff member
Sep 23, 2004
35,132
1,319
Vancouver, Canada
www.IranSportsPress.com
One thing that I have to mention is that both Inter and Milan team are the strongest in recent years so let's not give credit only lack of performance of Juve.
for sure, that would explain their poor performance in Italy, but look at CL! they did worse in CL as well when CR joined them.

Again, I feel the main reason is, Ronaldo COSTS A LOT, Juventus thought by just having him, they would win CL, did not realize while Ronaldo is an important piece of puzzle, he is never going to win anything on his own, he NEEDS good players around him, and unless you are a rich club, very hard to have Ronaldo surrounded by decent players.
 

Khabalood

Senior Member
Sep 26, 2004
1,962
125
Toronto
Here are the stats (FACTS) no "feeling" here, these are just hard numbers/facts:
Comparing 3 year prior to CR vs 3 Year after CR (Just comparing Serie A/ Coppa Italia and Champions League)
2015-16: Champions - Serie A with 91 points | Champions Coppa Italia | Round of 16 eliminated by Bayern in Champions League
2016-17: Champions - Serie A with 91 points (again) | Champions Coppa Italia | Runner up (Real Madrid Champions) of Champions League
2017-18: Champions - Serie A with 95 points | Champions Coppa Italia | Quarter Finals in Champions League - Eliminated by Real Madrid
----- CR JOINS----
2018-19:
Champions - Serie A with 90 points | Quarter Finals Coppa Italia (Eliminated by Atalanta) | Quarter Finals in Champions League - Eliminated by Ajax
2019-20: Champions - Serie A with 83 points | Runner up Coppa Italia (Napoli winners) | Round of 16 in Champions League - Eliminated by Lyon
2020-21: 3rd right now (27 games played) 10 points behind leaders Inter | In the Final of Coppa Italia | Round of 16 in Champions League - Eliminated by Porto

Summary:
3 Years prior to Ronaldo joining Juventus won: 3 Serie A title / 3 Coppa Italia / Made the final of Champions League
3 Years AFTER Ronaldo joining Juventus won: 2 Serie A (they are 10 points behind Inter for the current season) / 0 Coppa Italia (they are in the final for this year, so at best 1) / Highest place in Champions League? Quarter Finals.

The above is just FACT, no feeling no biased, nothing, simply facts.
Now how Juve were considered of the strongest teams in the world while doing WORSE than prior 3 years, is something I am not sure I fully understand.
Juventus doesn't play in a vacuum where neither the team, coaching staff or the teams they play against stay the same. That's the major flaw with your argument here. I can understand why you would like to focus on some numbers and ignore relevant information, because that is the only way your argument makes any sense. Whereas when one looks at the full picture your argument falls apart.

Juventus has had a major injury problem this season. For a large portion of the season they have been playing with 1 healthy striker and 1 healthy defenseman.
My statement that Juventus was considered one of the strongest teams in the world the prior two years is true. There was no "feeling" there. You can look up their champions league odds as proof.

As for the champions league performance, Juve was eliminated due to the decisions of the ref the last two years. As for the league, I have already agreed that they have performed poorly this season. They lost their last two meaningless games last season after winning the title. One could argue that if the team actually gave a full effort in those two games and won they would have finished on 89 points.
 

Khabalood

Senior Member
Sep 26, 2004
1,962
125
Toronto
for sure, that would explain their poor performance in Italy, but look at CL! they did worse in CL as well when CR joined them.

Again, I feel the main reason is, Ronaldo COSTS A LOT, Juventus thought by just having him, they would win CL, did not realize while Ronaldo is an important piece of puzzle, he is never going to win anything on his own, he NEEDS good players around him, and unless you are a rich club, very hard to have Ronaldo surrounded by decent players.
Perhaps instead of feeling things you should actually watch the games and witness the ref screwing the team.
 

Pooya

Administrator, Technical Team Director
Staff member
Sep 23, 2004
35,132
1,319
Vancouver, Canada
www.IranSportsPress.com
Juventus doesn't play in a vacuum where neither the team, coaching staff or the teams they play against stay the same. That's the major flaw with your argument here. I can understand why you would like to focus on some numbers and ignore relevant information, because that is the only way your argument makes any sense. Whereas when one looks at the full picture your argument falls apart.

Juventus has had a major injury problem this season. For a large portion of the season they have been playing with 1 healthy striker and 1 healthy defenseman.
My statement that Juventus was considered one of the strongest teams in the world the prior two years is true. There was no "feeling" there. You can look up their champions league odds as proof.

As for the champions league performance, Juve was eliminated due to the decisions of the ref the last two years. As for the league, I have already agreed that they have performed poorly this season. They lost their last two meaningless games last season after winning the title. One could argue that if the team actually gave a full effort in those two games and won they would have finished on 89 points.
OK so in summary.
Year 1 and 2 Juventus strongest team and Ref was the issue
Year 3, injury and players.
Got it.

Also, I mean sure you can do what you like, but looking at "BETTING SITES" odds to determine the strongest team in the world? interesting approach, I leave it at that.
 

Khabalood

Senior Member
Sep 26, 2004
1,962
125
Toronto
OK so in summary.
Year 1 and 2 Juventus strongest team and Ref was the issue
Year 3, injury and players.
Got it.

Also, I mean sure you can do what you like, but looking at "BETTING SITES" odds to determine the strongest team in the world? interesting approach, I leave it at that.
You didn't know that the bookies analyze EVERYTHING. Btw, obviously I meant the ref cost Juve the champions league this year and the year prior. And I never said Juve was the strongest team, only among the strongest teams in previous years.
 

Pooya

Administrator, Technical Team Director
Staff member
Sep 23, 2004
35,132
1,319
Vancouver, Canada
www.IranSportsPress.com
You didn't know that the bookies analyze EVERYTHING. Btw, obviously I meant the ref cost Juve the champions league this year and the year prior. And I never said Juve was the strongest team, only among the strongest teams in previous years.
Ref cost Juve this year and last year CL, what happened in Coppa Italia? Same issue ref again? cuz Juve has not won one since CR joined.
 

Khabalood

Senior Member
Sep 26, 2004
1,962
125
Toronto
According to bet365 the order of teams to win Champions League:
1-) Man City
2-) Bayern
3-) Chelsea
4-) Liverpool
5-) PSG
6-) Real Madrid
7-) Dortmund
:cool: Porto

Interesting, so Chelsea is a stronger team than PSG ?:unsure:
The analysts for the betting companies take into account everything. So in this case, Chelsea has drawn an easier bracket as they are matched up against Porto. That is probably why their odds are better than one would expect.
 

Khabalood

Senior Member
Sep 26, 2004
1,962
125
Toronto
Ref cost Juve this year and last year CL, what happened in Coppa Italia? Same issue ref again? cuz Juve has not won one since CR joined.
Juve is in the final this year. They lost in a shoot out in last years final, and I don't remember the match against Atalanta that knocked them out the previous year.

So what your whole Ronaldo is a failure argument boils down to is that Juve lost one copa italia game against Atalanta. Are you really sure this is an argument that you want to continue pushing.

Everyone already knows Juves recent midfield acquisitions weren't good enough. This is pretty obvious.
 

Pooya

Administrator, Technical Team Director
Staff member
Sep 23, 2004
35,132
1,319
Vancouver, Canada
www.IranSportsPress.com
Juve is in the final this year. They lost in a shoot out in last years final, and I don't remember the match against Atalanta that knocked them out the previous year.

So what your whole Ronaldo is a failure argument boils down to is that Juve lost one copa italia game against Atalanta. Are you really sure this is an argument that you want to continue pushing.

Everyone already knows Juves recent midfield acquisitions weren't good enough. This is pretty obvious.
I think what you are saying then is since CR joined, Refs started fucking with Juve and Juve got worst in Penalties.
However, Juventus became one of the strongest team in the world and if not for Ref they would win more.
God damn these refs man.
 

Khabalood

Senior Member
Sep 26, 2004
1,962
125
Toronto
I think what you are saying then is since CR joined, Refs started fucking with Juve and Juve got worst in Penalties.
However, Juventus became one of the strongest team in the world and if not for Ref they would win more.
God damn these refs man.
All the jokes in the world won't change the fact that Ronaldo did not fail at Juve. These are just dreams that some Madrid fans have since they clearly could not win champions league without Ronaldo, and they are too butt hurt to admit it was a mistake letting him go. Especially when Madrid is the richest club in the world. What a dumb mistake.
 

Pooya

Administrator, Technical Team Director
Staff member
Sep 23, 2004
35,132
1,319
Vancouver, Canada
www.IranSportsPress.com
All the jokes in the world won't change the fact that Ronaldo did not fail at Juve. These are just dreams that some Madrid fans have since they clearly could not win champions league without Ronaldo, and they are too butt hurt to admit it was a mistake letting him go. Especially when Madrid is the richest club in the world. What a dumb mistake.
dumb mistake indeed man! I mean look at what happened to Juve , had it not been for missed PK and Refs, Juve would rule the world with him!!!
Again, damn those refs man! as soon as CR joined, they started going against Juve.
 

Pooya

Administrator, Technical Team Director
Staff member
Sep 23, 2004
35,132
1,319
Vancouver, Canada
www.IranSportsPress.com
I think we have discussed this to death, bottom line, according to the facts and stat (which I guess no one can deny)
- Juventus won LESS when CR joined when compared to 3 years prior to him joining. This is fact!
Now the reason you say is Refs started going against Juve for some reason.
I think the reason is, CR wage (31 million) does not allow for Juventus to sign more players, and CR is just not a "one man show" , he needs good players around him.

Overall bud, apart from the fact that Juve did worst when CR joining, what the reason is? who knows! we have different opinion and frankly no way to really prove either of it!
Cheers,
 

Khabalood

Senior Member
Sep 26, 2004
1,962
125
Toronto
dumb mistake indeed man! I mean look at what happened to Juve , had it not been for missed PK and Refs, Juve would rule the world with him!!!
Again, damn those refs man! as soon as CR joined, they started going against Juve.
The more jokes you make, just shows you're more butt hurt that he left Madrid. Let it go bro. These theories created on the Madrid fan boards are only good for a laugh. :LOL:
 

Khabalood

Senior Member
Sep 26, 2004
1,962
125
Toronto
I think we have discussed this to death, bottom line, according to the facts and stat (which I guess no one can deny)
- Juventus won LESS when CR joined when compared to 3 years prior to him joining. This is fact!
Now the reason you say is Refs started going against Juve for some reason.
I think the reason is, CR wage (31 million) does not allow for Juventus to sign more players, and CR is just not a "one man show" , he needs good players around him.

Overall bud, apart from the fact that Juve did worst when CR joining, what the reason is? who knows! we have different opinion and frankly no way to really prove either of it!
Cheers,
Not sure what you're talking about. I've completely disproven just about every claim of failure you've made with the exception of a copa Italia loss to Atalanta.

The refs screwing Juve the last two years in champions league is a fact. Between last years phantom foul that no video camera can see and this years bowling over of Ronaldo (after he controlled the ball) and no contact being made with the ball it is clear that the refs decision was what eliminated Juve. Only an unjust person would deny this.

Of course if Juve wasn't facing financial problems due to the China virus restrictions they could have brought in more talent. Still they actually spent a lot on transfers of players other than Ronaldo but the acquisitions were poor and then they got hit with massive injuries too. So you weren't completely wrong about the financial problems, you just put the blame on the wrong cause.