Should the World keep the “Military Option” against Iran “On the Table”?!!

shahinc

Legionnaire
May 8, 2005
6,745
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#22
The courageous Iranians have already put the Oxygen mask on the Rejeeem, either follow their route or step out of the way.
God Bless your optimism and your enthusiastic conclusion of the current event in Iran and where the movement is at.
Now, based on how you see the current situations, when should we expect any meaningful changes happening?

Motori aziz, can you care to elaborate more on "Follow their Route" ? Which route is this since majority of Iranian INSIDE do not have the means to express their voice freely and the "route" that is usually shown these days is the route that leaders of GREEN movement usually pave for Iranian. Is this the route that you are referring to as well ? Or is this the trade happy, no sanction NIAC policies that should be kept in mind ?

Now, as far as this is domestic issue, I agree. I think Iranian outside Iran should NOT become " Kaseh Dagh tar as ASH".
We should just let them figure things out and let them be. In reality, how much are these events really affecting us anyway and if IRANIAN INSIDE Iran are happy with the way things are, OR are happy with the speed of changes, then so be it.
 

masoudA

Legionnaire
Oct 16, 2008
6,199
22
#23
yes I get arrested, but my house doesnt get bombed/invaded by the police. "military option against Iran or any country" is the later example. and since when U.N was strong/competent enough to protect humanity in any country. and again, no forcing war against any country isnt a cause for Humanity.
So Nilou Jaan - you are against any devastation of Iran and Iranians - but you do accept an international military force to enter Iran and arrest/topple IR!!!???
Nilou jaan - do you agree with Makaveli !! that IR should be granted military immunity??
I truely understand none of you are for giving IR immunity - yet you can't vote for keeping open any military options against Iran.
I just want you all to know how people like Trita Parsi and NIAC operate and are trying to help IR in the name of peace. Also, I want you all to know who the elements are who keep calling people like me as warmongers - as if there is any Iranians in this world who wants war in Iran.
 

Makaveli

IPL Player
Jan 28, 2006
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#24
I just want you all to know how people like Trita Parsi and NIAC operate and are trying to help IR in the name of peace. Also, I want you all to know who the elements are who keep calling people like me as warmongers - as if there is any Iranians in this world who wants war in Iran.
That's a pretty heavy accusation. What is your evidence for that statement?
 

Makaveli

IPL Player
Jan 28, 2006
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#26
Dear Maka.... are you naming yourself after Machivalli .......you might as well learn what is name his and what he stood for....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niccolò_Machiavelli
Ad hominem. Doesn't deserve a response.
As for Trita Parsi - you missed taht discussion by about 5 years......check of some of the older ISP posts..
Best Wishes
Looks like the discussion is still going on, so what are you afraid of? Let's hear your position and let's hear you back it up.
 

shahinc

Legionnaire
May 8, 2005
6,745
1
#27
Looks like the discussion is still going on, so what are you afraid of? Let's hear your position and let's hear you back it up.
Are you a NIAC memeber ? why don't you tell us little bit about their work in recent years for the rights of minorities and political prisoners in Iran and how they plan to him these groups.
 

Makaveli

IPL Player
Jan 28, 2006
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#28
Are you a NIAC memeber ? why don't you tell us little bit about their work in recent years for the rights of minorities and political prisoners in Iran and how they plan to him these groups.
No I'm not a member but every time I've heard anyone ramble against NIAC they say they got their info from the aunt who got it from her cousin who got it from some guy from some Farsi tv station. As far as rights for minorities what is a concrete thing anyone sitting in the US can do that could have an impact? I'm curious.
 

shahinc

Legionnaire
May 8, 2005
6,745
1
#29
No I'm not a member but every time I've heard anyone ramble against NIAC they say they got their info from the aunt who got it from her cousin who got it from some guy from some Farsi tv station. As far as rights for minorities what is a concrete thing anyone sitting in the US can do that could have an impact? I'm curious.

As a Iranian organization with all ties within US community and lobbying power and ... don't you think they should be doing something about human rights, political prisoners, religious minority rights, racial minority rights and ... in Iran ?
Are you suggesting that because this is an organization outside of Iran hence, they should stay away from these topics and keep quiet ??

I ask you this because you were quick to come to defend of this organization and I thought you might have some information on what they do or did which is not coming from a cousin or an aunt and was wondering if you can share those with us.
 

Makaveli

IPL Player
Jan 28, 2006
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#30
As a Iranian organization with all ties within US community and lobbying power and ... don't you think they should be doing something about human rights, political prisoners, religious minority rights, racial minority rights and ... in Iran ?
Are you suggesting that because this is an organization outside of Iran hence, they should stay away from these topics and keep quiet ??
I haven't suggested anything. If you're going to criticize NIAC, or any group for that matter, it has to be based on fact and you have to present a practical alternative. I've seen them work on human rights in general, but when you say they should be working for the rights of minorities, what specifically do you suggest that would have an impact?
 

shahinc

Legionnaire
May 8, 2005
6,745
1
#31
I've seen them work on human rights in general, but when you say they should be working for the rights of minorities,
Then the same way you asked for proof from Masoud, please show us NIAC's effort in these area.
I am really curious because I have seen them lobbying mostly against sanctions and such. As far as impact, I give you a small example and I refer you to what Batebi said about the media coverage of his case when he was in jail and how it helped him. Small demonstrations, petitions and such can raise awareness on such issues in Iran.

Again, I am not suggesting that NIAC has not done anything like this but since you seem to have more information, I am simply asking you to share it with us. We all know, NIAC has the tools to pressure some lobyyist in congress and ... to make changes that benefit Iranians. Have they used their influnce for human right issues in Iran in the same way they work against sanctions and ...
 

Makaveli

IPL Player
Jan 28, 2006
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#32
Then the same way you asked for proof from Masoud, please show us NIAC's effort in these area.
I am really curious because I have seen them lobbying mostly against sanctions and such. As far as impact, I give you a small example and I refer you to what Batebi said about the media coverage of his case when he was in jail and how it helped him. Small demonstrations, petitions and such can raise awareness on such issues in Iran.

Again, I am not suggesting that NIAC has not done anything like this but since you seem to have more information, I am simply asking you to share it with us. We all know, NIAC has the tools to pressure some lobyyist in congress and ... to make changes that benefit Iranians. Have they used their influnce for human right issues in Iran in the same way they work against sanctions and ...
Masoud made a claim, the burden of proof is on him to back it up. You complaint against NIAC is that they don't anything on issues like minority rights, so I am asking you what specifically they should do that would have an impact. As far as awareness on human rights issues are concerned, if the issue is simply raising awareness, I can think of no other organization that has held as many conferences on human rights violation in Iran as NIAC. Are there any other groups that have done more? If so, please name them.
 

Niloufar

Football Legend
Oct 19, 2002
29,626
23
#33
So Nilou Jaan - you are against any devastation of Iran and Iranians - but you do accept an international military force to enter Iran and arrest/topple IR!!!???
Nilou jaan - do you agree with Makaveli !! that IR should be granted military immunity??
Masoud jan, Im against any devastation of Iran and Iranians and truly believe(and as I eyewitnessed like so many other Iranians during war in Iran), how useless an international military force would be to topple IR. It'll do nothing but to strengthen the regime(as it did during Iran-Iraq war and victimized the incompetent officials for yrs after).

I truely understand none of you are for giving IR immunity - yet you can't vote for keeping open any military options against Iran.
I just want you all to know how people like Trita Parsi and NIAC operate and are trying to help IR in the name of peace. Also, I want you all to know who the elements are who keep calling people like me as warmongers - as if there is any Iranians in this world who wants war in Iran.
I dont care about NIAC..but if u believe in a peaceful world(where all countries deserve that), there is no such a thing as "granting military immunity". Border immunity of country A shouldnt concern country B. I mean no country is better or should feel the authority to "grant" another country "immunity" or not!
Only hawkish businessmen like G.W.Bush and alikes use this term to justify their war attempts..
 

shahinc

Legionnaire
May 8, 2005
6,745
1
#34
Masoud made a claim, the burden of proof is on him to back it up. You complaint against NIAC is that they don't anything on issues like minority rights, so I am asking you what specifically they should do that would have an impact. As far as awareness on human rights issues are concerned, if the issue is simply raising awareness, I can think of no other organization that has held as many conferences on human rights violation in Iran as NIAC. Are there any other groups that have done more? If so, please name them.
If they have, then please show us the proof. Please show us how they used all their influence and their power in US and their lobbyist power to help the human rights issues in Iran. give us the detail work of the group and what was achieved so far.

thank you
 

masoudA

Legionnaire
Oct 16, 2008
6,199
22
#35
I dont care about NIAC..but if u believe in a peaceful world(where all countries deserve that), there is no such a thing as "granting military immunity". Border immunity of country A shouldnt concern country B. I mean no country is better or should feel the authority to "grant" another country "immunity" or not!
Only hawkish businessmen like G.W.Bush and alikes use this term to justify their war attempts..
Nilou Jaan - in a perfect world you are of-course right .......but if I am Lybian who has rebbled against Moamar Ghadafi or an Iranian who has rebbled gainst IR - and I see my own country's planes (controlled by my own government) bombing me and others like me...while I have only firecrackers......then I thank god there are still countries like France, Germany and USA, and hawkish people like Sarcuzzi to save the righteous. This is not a perfect world we live in.......also, what if your child was in an IR jail....would'nt you then endorse ANY action ahainst the barbarians - from anywhere? again - it's a wild world - and everyone including UN takes payouts. Thank god there are still people that do the right thing - and I don't mean Bush - he did not.


Shahin jan - damet garm - did it in 2 steps!!
but don't you see - he succeeded to change the topic of discussion to NIAC!!! He will change to Bush after that. lol
but since I brought up NIAC as a side-note, then here is a response to you.
You tackled NIAC from a perfect angle......Just up to a couple of Years ago - when asked the question, Trita Parsi is on record having said: NIAC is not a human rights activity organzation..........
I am sure if you reach deep - you can find something SOMEWAHT positive in NIAC's records which may have indirectly benefited us, Iranian Americans.....myself, have not found it yet but let's give them the benefit......What is easy about NIAC is the long list of activities IR loves......as you pointed out a couple. Let's also not forget the ton of e-mails and other court documentations on contacts between Parsi and IR officials....
On a lighter side of Trita Tazi......the first thing that comes to any inquisitive Iranian/American mind is where did this guy come from?.....and the first thing one notices is the fact that serving as the non elected president!! of Iranian/Americans - the guy is neither Iranian nor American. He is on record saying his family left Iran when he was 4!! Even if we believe him that makes him an Iranian remotely familiar with Iran and Iranians.....As for being American....until last I know he was not a citizen....he will be...just not yet.

Even on a lighter side, is his name.....There is a theory that it is a name which was created to sound Iranian Nationalist....and it does. This is one theory that can be shut down very easy.......all Trita has to do is to provide the doubters info on his elementary and high school. But upon being confronted several times.....he has had no responses!!! How hard is it to add your early schooling to your resume? unless - you attended elementary school is Kwait under a different name !!! lol
 
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shahinc

Legionnaire
May 8, 2005
6,745
1
#36
Masoud Jan
Sorry to diverge the topic to NIAC , I will continue this discussion with Makaveli through P.M.
To be honest, i was genuinely curious on NIAC's work on Human rights. I have not yet met an Iranian who openly admits to be a member of NIAC and just wanted to know if they have used any of their influence to protect human rights in Iran.

As far as Trita, there are alot of question marks about this guy which starts with his thesis and how he managed to interview Iranian officials on the Israel and Iran relationships as a NON MUSLIM, immigrant kid with a father who was a political prisoner :) . That to me does not add up since i know many guys with similar situations who would never be able to have access to such a information.

Now, back to the main topic of the thread :)
 

Makaveli

IPL Player
Jan 28, 2006
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#37
If they have, then please show us the proof. Please show us how they used all their influence and their power in US and their lobbyist power to help the human rights issues in Iran. give us the detail work of the group and what was achieved so far.

thank you
Impossible because never once did I make the claim that you're attributing to me. If I made a claim, tell me what it was and I will back it up.

You on the other hand have some writing to do. Be specific with your recommendation regarding minority rights etc.
 

Makaveli

IPL Player
Jan 28, 2006
2,976
0
#38
Nilou Jaan - in a perfect world you are of-course right .......but if I am Lybian who has rebbled against Moamar Ghadafi or an Iranian who has rebbled gainst IR - and I see my own country's planes (controlled by my own government) bombing me and others like me...while I have only firecrackers......then I thank god there are still countries like France, Germany and USA, and hawkish people like Sarcuzzi to save the righteous. This is not a perfect world we live in.......also, what if your child was in an IR jail....would'nt you then endorse ANY action ahainst the barbarians - from anywhere? again - it's a wild world - and everyone including UN takes payouts. Thank god there are still people that do the right thing - and I don't mean Bush - he did not.


Shahin jan - damet garm - did it in 2 steps!!
but don't you see - he succeeded to change the topic of discussion to NIAC!!! He will change to Bush after that. lol
but since I brought up NIAC as a side-note, then here is a response to you.
You tackled NIAC from a perfect angle......Just up to a couple of Years ago - when asked the question, Trita Parsi is on record having said: NIAC is not a human rights activity organzation..........
I am sure if you reach deep - you can find something SOMEWAHT positive in NIAC's records which may have indirectly benefited us, Iranian Americans.....myself, have not found it yet but let's give them the benefit......What is easy about NIAC is the long list of activities IR loves......as you pointed out a couple. Let's also not forget the ton of e-mails and other court documentations on contacts between Parsi and IR officials....
On a lighter side of Trita Tazi......the first thing that comes to any inquisitive Iranian/American mind is where did this guy come from?.....and the first thing one notices is the fact that serving as the non elected president!! of Iranian/Americans - the guy is neither Iranian nor American. He is on record saying his family left Iran when he was 4!! Even if we believe him that makes him an Iranian remotely familiar with Iran and Iranians.....As for being American....until last I know he was not a citizen....he will be...just not yet.

Even on a lighter side, is his name.....There is a theory that it is a name which was created to sound Iranian Nationalist....and it does. This is one theory that can be shut down very easy.......all Trita has to do is to provide the doubters info on his elementary and high school. But upon being confronted several times.....he has had no responses!!! How hard is it to add your early schooling to your resume? unless - you attended elementary school is Kwait under a different name !!! lol
The post above is a perfect example of what's wrong with Iranians in and out of Iran. Khale zanak bazi without shame. Rumor after rumor. Speculation packed with conspiracy theory. We could have a discussion based on facts, but the prime issue here seems to be how Parsi wipes his ass and what kindergarten he went to.

Disgusting.
 

Niloufar

Football Legend
Oct 19, 2002
29,626
23
#39
Nilou Jaan - in a perfect world you are of-course right .......but if I am Lybian who has rebbled against Moamar Ghadafi or an Iranian who has rebbled gainst IR - and I see my own country's planes (controlled by my own government) bombing me and others like me...while I have only firecrackers......then I thank god there are still countries like France, Germany and USA, and hawkish people like Sarcuzzi to save the righteous. This is not a perfect world we live in.......also, what if your child was in an IR jail....would'nt you then endorse ANY action ahainst the barbarians - from anywhere? again - it's a wild world - and everyone including UN takes payouts. Thank god there are still people that do the right thing - and I don't mean Bush - he did not.
now that u brought Libya example, what exactly did France, U.S and NATO in general achieved by bombing Libya? have they weakened Gaddafi? No. have they captured him? No. Hell his brother and his family still own mansions with millions of $ in Montreal,Canada. Its only Libyan ppl right now who are suffering..just like how they suffered under Gaddafi's brutal bombing, they are just now bombarded by foreign military. there is not much difference really. At the end of the day, during a military attack, ppl are the victims. Just like Iraqis, Afghans, Bosnian,Serbs, etc..

bc for every corrupt oil-rich states like Iran, Syria and Libya, when there is a military attack, they jack up the inflation and cost of basic food for ppl, with shortages of food supplies,the domestic economy shuts down, and ordinary ppl have to pay for military cost/damages to their country(just like our ppl paid for it in casualties, family-break up and poverty for yrs after Iran-Iraq war). At the same time, the govt will use this propaganda against "Satan enemy" and all that, for yrs to come to justify their management shortcomings. so the chances of regime fall bc of military action is almost 0.

These are the outcome of any military attack against any country. and whoever tries to sell this idea(against Iran in this case) again, surely has economic-political agenda without any concern for the ppl of that country or regime change.
 

shahinc

Legionnaire
May 8, 2005
6,745
1
#40
Impossible because never once did I make the claim that you're attributing to me. If I made a claim, tell me what it was and I will back it up.

You on the other hand have some writing to do. Be specific with your recommendation regarding minority rights etc.
Dear friend,
Your lack of respond to my comment is a strong proof that you were not able to find or are not even aware of any activity that NIAC has done in recent years to help the human right issues in Iran which, if true, is a waste since they are an influential organization and should allocate some resources in this area.
Your response actually amazes me since you started your argument by accusing others of NOT knowing anything about NIAC activity and getting their information from their " aunt and cousins" while you are also unable to provide any useful FACT about NIAC and what they have done for human rights in Iran.
This is two way street my friend, when you ask for proofs and facts, you should be able and ready to provide proofs and facts when advertising and cheer leading for a certain organization.

As far as a the rest of your post, it is Maghlateh Bazi and the point I was trying to make , has been made :) .
I have now no more interest in going back and forth when you showed little ability to come back with anything substantial or meaningful that is worth discussing further.
It is also not fair to Masoud to diverge the topic of his thread to a discussion about NIAC and hence, this is my last post regarding NIAC on this thread.

Thank you and best of Luck