Tasliat to Iranians

Payandeh Iran

Payandeh Iran

Elite Member
#1
Feb 4, 2005
25,249
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#1
43 years ago Dr. Mohammad Mosadegh passed away. Tasliat is not because of his death as we will all die but to a nation that doesn't ever appreciate the great men while they are alive and only remember them when it's too late and when the entire nation is in deep .... Dorood be ravaneh pakeh Dr. Mohammad Mosadegh. National hero indeed.

Hargez namirad Ankeh delash zendeh shod be eshgh
Sabt ast bar jarideyeh Alam davaameh maa
 
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shahinc

Legionnaire
#4
May 8, 2005
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deerouz said:
If we had one Mosaddegh today...
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Mosaddegh is one of the characters in Iranian history that I think need to be studied further with a unbiased approach (maybe the studies have been done and I am not aware).
I have few questions that maybe some of you can answer.


1) What was Mosadegh's relationship with the Ayatollah's of his time during his early political years?

2) What was Mosadegh's relationship with old Qajar kings and his view on Qajar Dynasty?

3) What was the role he played in comparison with Dr. Fatemi in nationalizing the oil?

4) What was his relationship to Hezbeh Todeh?

5) What was the influence of Hezbeh Todeh in his Cabinet at that time?

6) What were his views of the separation of politics from religion?

7) What were his views on Constitutional Monarchy?

8) What were his views on 1342 white revolution (land and ...)?

9) What was Mosadegh's young political past??!!
What were the significant movements that young Mosadegh was involved with?


Can someone point out to a book that has an unbiased view on him?
Some of the materials which I have read on him are by the Anti Shah, Anti Monarch writers who also praise Khomeyni's early days.

Thank you
 
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masoudA

masoudA

Legionnaire
#6
Oct 16, 2008
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#6
Shahin Jaan - There is none - The problem is our so called Roshanfekrs are still not clear on what happened to us 30 years ago - let alone 55 years ago. What is certain is that Mossadegh wanted the best for Iran.

But - I rather have Amir Kabir back today than a Mossadegh.
 
R

reza+

Ball Boy
#7
Feb 19, 2004
354
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#7
shahinc, very good questions ... not have the answers but in 1342, i assume he would have been opposed to the "white" revolution coz he was in "opposition" to the shah

in terms of today, i don't think a figure, with mossadegh's "soft" characteristics, could rule iran effectively ... we saw what happened to the "weak" politicians of the recent past like bazargan (even mousavi?) .... as history has shown in the last few decades, iran needs a strong man to keep the unity of the people/country and so on....
 
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shahinc

Legionnaire
#8
May 8, 2005
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reza+ said:
in terms of today, i don't think a figure, with mossadegh's "soft" characteristics, could rule iran effectively ... .
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That is another point that I have been hearing about Mr.Mosadegh but not sure how true or false is.

I did not wanted to include it in my question list as a sign of respect to him in this thread but I agree with a very valid point that you made ( weak leaders at this time).

Thank you for your input.
 
R

reza+

Ball Boy
#9
Feb 19, 2004
354
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#9
shahin, frankly i dont know "anything" unbiased about mossadeq ... he has become a mystical figure but i get the impression he was "weak" and "simple" ... what i mean is that we needed a "tough" figure like dr fatemi to be in charge when the shah was forced to leave iran

looking back...mossadeq did not act decisively enough when the shah was thrown out of the country ... but i maybe wrong in my assessment of him
 
D

deerouz

Captain
#10
Oct 18, 2002
11,593
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#10
reza+ said:
shahinc, very good questions ... not have the answers but in 1342, i assume he would have been opposed to the "white" revolution coz he was in "opposition" to the shah

in terms of today, i don't think a figure, with mossadegh's "soft" characteristics, could rule iran effectively ... we saw what happened to the "weak" politicians of the recent past like bazargan (even mousavi?) .... as history has shown in the last few decades, iran needs a strong man to keep the unity of the people/country and so on....
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Mosaddegh never had any opposition to Shah. By 1342 he was isolated and under practical house arrest. I haven't read any specific opinion form him in this regard.

BTW Mosaddegh was anything but soft! He was a master of populism who knew how to command a crowd. That's why I said if we had someone like him today... IRI would have collapsed by now.

Shahin jan, regarding your other questions: back then even political clerics like Modarres and Kashani did not believe in a cleric ruled government. I think Navab Safavi was the first to actvely advocate that. Mosaddegh was a staunch secular no doubt.

Regarding his background: Mosaddegh was a member of Qajar (like most other politicians and intellectuals of the time). he was governer of Fars at the age of 29, and served in several cabinets (mostly as finance minister) prior to Reza Shah rule. He was among the minority in Majlis who voted against change in dynasties from Qajar to Pahlavi, and fought against Reza Shah dictatorship in Majlis until he was barred from running. Then went to Europe and stayed there until Reza Shah was toppled. Came back and formed the National front.

Mosaddegh and Tudeh Party generally opposed each other (even though Tudeh party applauded his fight against British). None of his ministers were known Tudeh Party member (actually by then Tudeh party had been made illegal).
 
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deerouz

Captain
#11
Oct 18, 2002
11,593
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#11
reza+ said:
shahin, frankly i dont know "anything" unbiased about mossadeq ... he has become a mystical figure but i get the impression he was "weak" and "simple" ... what i mean is that we needed a "tough" figure like dr fatemi to be in charge when the shah was forced to leave iran

looking back...mossadeq did not act decisively enough when the shah was thrown out of the country ... but i maybe wrong in my assessment of him
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IMO that's not an accurate picture. Fatemi probably contributed the most to the success of the coup (and his own death) by his radical opposition to Shah and support for declaration of a republic. He was not a pragmatic leader; just an ex-journalist wit firey speeches. Mosaddegh on the other hand was a seasoned leader who was a master of populism, and knew what Iranians wanted. Possible elimination of monarchy scared many in the public who were worried about a Tudeh party takeover.
 
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reza+

Ball Boy
#12
Feb 19, 2004
354
0
#12
deeruz... he definitely appears to have been a populist prime minister .. but what makes you think he was tough nut ... we needed a "nationalist/republican reza shah" in 1953 to make a success out of it
 
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deerouz

Captain
#13
Oct 18, 2002
11,593
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#13
reza+ said:
deeruz... he definitely appears to have been a populist prime minister .. but what makes you think he was tough nut ... we needed a "nationalist/republican reza shah" in 1953 to make a success out of it
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Why did we need a republic back then?
Mosaddegh's problem was actually that IMO he was not soft enough to negotiate. Not with the foreign powers, nor with his rivals in Iran, or with the royal court. he started fighting on too many fronts and that weakened his power.
 
keyvan_pars

keyvan_pars

Head Coach
#14
May 21, 2003
19,849
147
Not The Eshaalic Goozpublic !
#14
He had the weakness of many other Iranian nationalist prior to him.

Religious tendencies.

Abu-moslem, Amir Kabir, sar daaran e mashrooteh all had this weakness.

unfortunately those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it.

As per a person, he definitely loved Iran and Iranian people in his own way and that deserves all iranians respect. He has done more for Iran and Iranians that any of us would dream to achieve in ten lifetimes.
 
Flint

Flint

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#16
Jan 28, 2006
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#16
What clouds history's judgement of Mosaddegh is that nobody knows what would have happened if he had succeeded in ousting the Shah. Would Iran have embarked on a road to progress and prosperity or would have become another prey for Soviet Union in a few years? Recall that Soviets were on the march in the 50s and were annexing countries left and right. Turkey and Iran were the only major neighbors that remained free.
 
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shahinc

Legionnaire
#17
May 8, 2005
6,745
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#17
deerouz said:
.

Shahin jan, regarding your other questions: back then even political clerics like Modarres and Kashani did not believe in a cleric ruled government. I think Navab Safavi was the first to actvely advocate that. Mosaddegh was a staunch secular no doubt.

Regarding his background: Mosaddegh was a member of Qajar (like most other politicians and intellectuals of the time). he was governer of Fars at the age of 29, and served in several cabinets (mostly as finance minister) prior to Reza Shah rule. He was among the minority in Majlis who voted against change in dynasties from Qajar to Pahlavi, and fought against Reza Shah dictatorship in Majlis until he was barred from running. Then went to Europe and stayed there until Reza Shah was toppled. Came back and formed the National front.

Mosaddegh and Tudeh Party generally opposed each other (even though Tudeh party applauded his fight against British). None of his ministers were known Tudeh Party member (actually by then Tudeh party had been made illegal).
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Thank you Deerouz Jan for the information
I am very interested on Mossadegh's political views. Is there any book that you suggest which may contain some of his writtings or speaches .

Thank you
 
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D

deerouz

Captain
#18
Oct 18, 2002
11,593
3
#18
keyvan_pars said:
He had the weakness of many other Iranian nationalist prior to him.

Religious tendencies.

Abu-moslem, Amir Kabir, sar daaran e mashrooteh all had this weakness.

unfortunately those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it.
Click to expand...
Keyvan jan,

Can you give an example of Mosaddegh's religious tendencies w/r/t his politics? or Amirkabir and Mashrooteh leaders? I can't think of any example where Mosaddegh's politics was affected by religious tendency, if he had any.
 
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deerouz

Captain
#19
Oct 18, 2002
11,593
3
#19
shahinc said:
Thank you Deerouz Jan for the information
I am very interested on Mossadegh's political views. Is there any book that you suggest which may contain some of his writtings or speaches .

Thank you
Click to expand...
Shahin jan,
Any book on the history of Iranian oil nationalization movement should have covered Mosaddegh's speeches and writings in detail. I can't recommend any specific book; if you are interested in an unbiased look, you can read writings from different sides of the spectrum: leftist, monarchist and nationalist to reach your own conclusion.
 
P

payan

Captain
#20
Dec 12, 2002
8,517
1
usa
#20
first of all droud be ravan this great man .
shahin jan, i didn't know much about our history till 10 years ago which i started reading about it any book i got it .like deerouz mentioned he had no communist members in his adminstraion, it was ghavam who had 3 .
the best book i red about mossadegh was; jonbeshe meli shodane naft iran by ( gholameza nejati) .
however he had his flaws and definitely the same habbit of iranian talking which sometimes can be taking very seriously, for instance this is what did cost him big time .americans ( democrats and republicans ) liked mossadegh but in a meeting with ike mossadegh said this typical iranian menalities,he goes to ike if you don't support me then iran will falls into hand of communists( kinda threating americans), right there ike approved the coup to get rid both mossadegh and leftist all together .
however you don't know which way to go .my grand father didn't care for him and my father who was like 17,18 in time of coup believed he was the greatest leader ever.i have a mixed feeling leaning more to him .
 
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