this is just fucked up...

Feb 22, 2005
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Turns out the soldier that Israel said was kidnaped had been killed in action. It was public relation in response to US complaining to Israel about too many civilians killed and UN school hit. Another bull shit by Israel so they can continue on their killing campaign.

Israel has been doing this for decades. Coming up with excuse to go on rapid killing of palastininians or taking more lands.
 
Feb 22, 2005
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During last several decades especially last few, Palestinian children frequently get shot and killed or maimed by Israeli soldiers. It is a normal life for Palestinians in the apartheid racist regime of Israelis.

I wonder how many of the blindly following Israeli supporters who believe whatever Israel and Fox news says. Do you even show a little care of sympathy towards those Palestinians children that get killed every year by Israeli soldiers? Do you care about how horrible life for Palastinians under Israeli occupation has been? And every time they fight back or throw stones, they get massacred. And then when it stops, it goes back to normal Israeli oppressing, torturing, putting road blocks and making life miserable whereas Israeli settlers go through highways build through Palestinian lands to the subsidized housing that has as much water as the want to use with swimming pool in each one, etc..

There would have been no Hamas nor many other crisis, if Israel did not do so much wrong doing in the occupied territories and did not make settlements and rather wanted peace.
 
Feb 22, 2005
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What you see today is exactly what Israeli planned and perfectly executed. They took settlements out of the small gaza that has the population ethnic cleansed from all around into the small area. Have you seen how big that area used to be? And Israeli soldiers are outside of it blockading it like an open prison. That is not leaving it, rather finding it easier to fence it and deal with the prisoners from outside.

Isralies building settlements, ethnic cleansing Palestinians into small areas, should tell you their characteristics. The number of civilians and children killed not only in this war but frequently by them should show you who they are.

What is Hamas doing there. Hamas was created as the result of this conflict (it is said by Israelis to divide palastinians so it can be used as an excuse not to make peace to grab lands and keep them). It has support because of the sufferings Palastinians are going through.

But again, I think we need to convince Fox News to change their news and then their supporters will get it.


You think storing weapons in UN schools just happened now? It's been going for years. Why is the UN just coming out with this information now? I am not at all sure it was the UN that volunteered the information. In fact I am sure they did not because they must have known about it and kept quiet until now. This talk of towing that party line applies to you too because you are not bringing up any facts that hurts Hamas. If I come across as "pro Israel" is because I am convinced that Israel would have left Gaza alone. They don't need the place. They left it 9 years ago and washed their hands off of it. It is Hamas that is not content with they got. Besides, what is Hamas doing in Gaza anyway? Why isn't PA running Gaza? Ans: they were pushed off rooftops.
 

Silverton

National Team Player
Nov 6, 2004
4,524
6
IR ships rockets to Hamas, Hamas stores them in residential areas probably one or two floors in the ground so they cannot be detected by Aerial surveillance. Israelis use technology to pinpoint them (not working in all cases) and the result is loss of palestinian lives of civilians.

Why the fuck did they have to kidnap the three teenagers and kill them?

They know that the Israelis are just looking for an excuse to start indiscriminate bombing and attacks. Why give them an excuse ?
What? Last week it was confirmed that Hamas did not kill the teenagers from Israeli officials (the premise by which Netanyahu attacked - another 'Iraq has WMD' bullshit).

It Turns Out Hamas May Not Have Kidnapped and Killed the 3 Israeli Teens After All [Updated]

But now, Israeli officials admit the kidnappings were not Hamas's handiwork after all. (Update: The comments from the Israeli spokesperson in question indicate that the group thought to be responsible, a "lone cell," may not have been under direct orders from Hamas's leadership, but was loosely affiliated with the group. The headline of this post has been changed to reflect that discrepancy.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/07/hamas-didnt-kidnap-the-israeli-teens-after-all.html
 

Silverton

National Team Player
Nov 6, 2004
4,524
6
Turns out the soldier that Israel said was kidnaped had been killed in action. It was public relation in response to US complaining to Israel about too many civilians killed and UN school hit. Another bull shit by Israel so they can continue on their killing campaign.

Israel has been doing this for decades. Coming up with excuse to go on rapid killing of palastininians or taking more lands.
Israel has two HUGE each lies (amongst multitude of others) in regards to starting & restarting aggression (Starting this War & Breaking Planned the Longest Ceasefire)
(1) Netanyahu claimed the three teenagers were killed by Hamas. Later we found out they weren't.
(2) Israel claimed Hamas broke 72-hour truce by kidnapping Israeli soldier after ceasefire had started (lie: soldier was killed before ceasefire)
 
Aug 26, 2005
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You think storing weapons in UN schools just happened now? It's been going for years. Why is the UN just coming out with this information now? I am not at all sure it was the UN that volunteered the information. In fact I am sure they did not because they must have known about it and kept quiet until now. This talk of towing that party line applies to you too because you are not bringing up any facts that hurts Hamas. If I come across as "pro Israel" is because I am convinced that Israel would have left Gaza alone. They don't need the place. They left it 9 years ago and washed their hands off of it. It is Hamas that is not content with they got. Besides, what is Hamas doing in Gaza anyway? Why isn't PA running Gaza? Ans: they were pushed off rooftops.
Toeing the party line is a reference to the fact that you seem to simply parrot whatever the conservative/right's stance is.

Israel is running out of excuses. Since 2013, they've had 45 UN resolutions condemning their actions. That's almost as much as the rest of the world combined. They're simply warped or their government is warping them as even their people are backing their actions. Just the other day there was an article (later removed) in The Times of Israel:



This is starting to become some nazi shit.
 

TeamMeli

Elite Member
Feb 5, 2014
9,275
311
Las Vegas, NV
I'm not going to get into the Israeli Palestinian conflict but I will say I really think Netanyahu is a nutjob who is the Israeli version of Ahmadnejad. Lord also brings up another fair point the settlements is not right but all of this is really starting to backfire on Israel's PR, that and the recent offensive they on. They took a huge hit in Latin America and there was an article I read which stated that the President of Bolivia called Israel a terrorist state. All I know is this conflict will probably go on long after we are all dead.
 

Silverton

National Team Player
Nov 6, 2004
4,524
6
Another school was hit today - 7th UN school they have intentionally bombed. At least 10 dead. Israel was given coordinates again, didn't matter. Think it's best just not to give them coordinates anymore, they will use it to pinpoint bombing target.

Israel is Insanity.

 

Silverton

National Team Player
Nov 6, 2004
4,524
6
Toeing the party line is a reference to the fact that you seem to simply parrot whatever the conservative/right's stance is.

Israel is running out of excuses. Since 2013, they've had 45 UN resolutions condemning their actions. That's almost as much as the rest of the world combined. They're simply warped or their government is warping them as even their people are backing their actions. Just the other day there was an article (later removed) in The Times of Israel:



This is starting to become some nazi shit.
Want to see Nazi shit? Read some of their politicians statements. Such as Naftali Benneft, Avigdor Lieberman & Ayelet Shaked - all of who have openly called for genocide.

And these people are heavyweights in Israeli politics.
 

shahinc

Legionnaire
May 8, 2005
6,745
1
Want to see Nazi shit? Read some of their politicians statements. Such as Naftali Benneft, Avigdor Lieberman & Ayelet Shaked - all of who have openly called for genocide.

And these people are heavyweights in Israeli politics.
These people are the Israeli counterparts of Hamas/ Hezbollah/ Iranian leader who call for genocide of Israeli citizens and destruction of that country on the daily basis with the promises of 72 virgins in the after life.

This conflict has 2 side and both side have extremist who have the upper hand right now. Finger pointing is the name of the game.
 
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shahinc

Legionnaire
May 8, 2005
6,745
1
Hamas "fighters" are literally hiding under the skirts, or perhaps chadors , of their wives and families. Gaza has plenty of open spaces to launch rockets. Why are they firing out of the middle of homes? This is war, isn't it?

Hamas doesn't care how many Palestinians die. The more, the merrier. They will kill them themselves if they have to. They are cut from the same cloth who gave us Cinema Rex. You have to go in, house by house, street by street and nab them one by one. Bombing buildings and killing civilians ain't gonna do it. There is no easy way. So far they have not done that and they will lose again like last time.
Nicely said.
Hams wants and needs the civilian casualty for their propaganda machine. It is what they thrive for and hope for. Every time their political strength in Gaza is threatened, they manufacture a new conflict with Israel to change the political tides of Gaza.

It is a script that has been played so many times and will continue to play unless both sides admit and accept that the solution is not in the hands of extermists and both sides are guilty of supporting these extremist and have equal share in the miseries that we are seeing.
 

TeamMeli

Elite Member
Feb 5, 2014
9,275
311
Las Vegas, NV
Well now Israel's last ally, the United States, is not happy with them right now there were articles on yahoo and other media outlets in the US stating that the US is disgusted by Israel's actions. This is really a political first nobody in the US government EVER criticized Israel. Oh my bad Jimmy Carter did and they branded him as an anti Semite that is how strong their influence is here.

I also agree with Flint Hamas couldn't care less how many Palestinians die they have their own interests as well and anytime a Palestinian dies they just use that as propaganda so propaganda is used on both sides Israel and Palestine. I'll just call it like I see it because I have no alliance to Israel or the Palestinians. Personally I think the United States needs to worry about their domestic issues first, such as military people and civilians not being able to find gainful employment. Trust me if Palestine becomes a state tomorrow, it is not going to change my life one bit and it won't change yours. If Israel wipes them off the face of the earth, it won't change my life one bit. Again I"ll feel bad if that happens but my life will go on.
 
Feb 22, 2005
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Does Israel ever do anything wrong? Even occupying another country for 70 years and building settlements, killing civilians, etc. is always the fault of the ones they occupy. And that gives them green right to kill children and civilians right? Dont forget, the area they are doing the killing is an occuped country and every occupied country has the right to fight back. Especially, after their lands have been gradually taken away and settlements build and their lands becoming small packets of prisons controlled by the occupied force.

Thankfully, there are a percentage of intellectual Israelis who want peace and dont like war and how this war is going.

I always find it intresting how there are Iranians who are more conservative and war loving than Natanyahu and Sharon.



Nicely said.
Hams wants and needs the civilian casualty for their propaganda machine. It is what they thrive for and hope for. Every time their political strength in Gaza is threatened, they manufacture a new conflict with Israel to change the political tides of Gaza.

It is a script that has been played so many times and will continue to play unless both sides admit and accept that the solution is not in the hands of extermists and both sides are guilty of supporting these extremist and have equal share in the miseries that we are seeing.
 
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Flint

Legionnaire
Jan 28, 2006
7,016
0
United States
Does Israel ever do anything wrong? Even occupying another country for 70 years and building settlements, killing civilians, etc. is always the fault of the ones they occupy. And that gives them green right to kill children and civilians right? Dont forget, the area they are doing the killing is an occuped country and every occupied country has the right to fight back.
You see, if you get drawn in the argument long enough you eventually show your colors. Your problem is not about the little Gaza, tunnels, cement etc. You have a problem with the whole state of Israel but can't quite come out and say it. If you really want to get down to it, "occupied territories" is the whole Israel. Gaza and the west bank won't make you happy. You want them out, just like Hamas does. And what do you think Hamas will do with all that land? The same thing their buddies ISIS is doing in Iraq and Syria. Gaza could have been a choice destination for Europeans. Look at the map. Beautiful shore on the Mediterranean. You are telling me that If they had used their cement to build hotels instead of tunnels Israel would be bombing them today?
 

shahinc

Legionnaire
May 8, 2005
6,745
1
Does Israel ever do anything wrong?

Even occupying another country for 70 years and building settlements, killing civilians, etc. is always the fault of the ones they occupy. And that gives them green right to kill children and civilians right? Dont forget, the area they are doing the killing is an occuped country and every occupied country has the right to fight back. Especially, after their lands have been gradually taken away and settlements build and their lands becoming small packets of prisons controlled by the occupied force.

Thankfully, there are a percentage of intellectual Israelis who want peace and dont like war and how this war is going.

I always find it intresting how there are Iranians who are more conservative and war loving than Natanyahu and Sharon.

LOOOOOOLLLLLL, You are so full of HATE, so full of PREJUDICE, so BLINDED by your BIASES that discussing anything with you is a WASTE OF TIME :)

You have shown many times here that HISTORY, FATCS, LOGIC has no place in the discussion when you are talking about Israel/Palestine conflict.

For you it is SIMPLE, one side is 100% right and the other is 100% wrong. One side is EVIL and the other is VICTIMS. Your mind is made up even if it is in the expense of ignoring history and logic.

As I said earlier, people like you are the reasons why Hamas and Netanyahu are in power and why innocent people are dying and why this conflict will never resolve.

Good Luck my friend.
 
Feb 22, 2005
6,884
9
I think you are looking in the mirror and putting your own hatred and prejudice here.

There is the 1967 border where Israel has their land and Palastinian theirs. If you look at the current map, you can see how Israel has build settlements and build lands. That is fact. After every attack and crisis, Israel goes back to the status quo and starts taking more land by building more. That is fact. Even now, there talk points to the same way.

Now stop listening to what Fox news, Israel lobbying brainwashes and look at the crisis yourself. Then you get out of the racist situation you are in and trying to reflect it on me. I have many Israeli friends and no Palastinians.

LOOOOOOLLLLLL, You are so full of HATE, so full of PREJUDICE, so BLINDED by your BIASES that discussing anything with you is a WASTE OF TIME :)

You have shown many times here that HISTORY, FATCS, LOGIC has no place in the discussion when you are talking about Israel/Palestine conflict.

For you it is SIMPLE, one side is 100% right and the other is 100% wrong. One side is EVIL and the other is VICTIMS. Your mind is made up even if it is in the expense of ignoring history and logic.

As I said earlier, people like you are the reasons why Hamas and Netanyahu are in power and why innocent people are dying and why this conflict will never resolve.

Good Luck my friend.
 
Feb 22, 2005
6,884
9
Again, you need to use your brain and not allow Fox news to brainwash you. I will explain it here so you learn more about the conflict.

From Wiki:
The Israeli-occupied territories are the territories occupied by Israel during the Six-Day War of 1967 from Egypt, Jordan, and Syria. They consist of the West Bank, including East Jerusalem; much of the Golan Heights; the Gaza Strip

Hamas and ISiS are proves that military aggressiveness is not the answer. And much worst that Hamas can form in the future. Make peace. Stop building settlements. Get out of the occupied territories and the 2 state solution is the only answer.


You see, if you get drawn in the argument long enough you eventually show your colors. Your problem is not about the little Gaza, tunnels, cement etc. You have a problem with the whole state of Israel but can't quite come out and say it. If you really want to get down to it, "occupied territories" is the whole Israel. Gaza and the west bank won't make you happy. You want them out, just like Hamas does. And what do you think Hamas will do with all that land? The same thing their buddies ISIS is doing in Iraq and Syria. Gaza could have been a choice destination for Europeans. Look at the map. Beautiful shore on the Mediterranean. You are telling me that If they had used their cement to build hotels instead of tunnels Israel would be bombing them today?
 
Feb 22, 2005
6,884
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From NY Times:

JABALIYA, Gaza Strip — An examination of an Israeli barrage that put a line of at least 10 shells through a United Nations school sheltering displaced Palestinians here last week suggests that Israeli troops paid little heed to warnings to safeguard such sites and may have unleashed weapons inappropriate for urban areas despite rising alarm over civilian deaths.

Inspection of the damage, a preliminary United Nations review that collected 30 pieces of shrapnel, and interviews with two dozen witnesses indicate that the predawn strikes on Wednesday, July 30, that killed 21 people at the school, in the crowded Jabaliya refugee camp, were likely to have come from heavy artillery not designed for precision use.

Israeli officials have argued throughout their 27-day air-and-ground campaign against Hamas, the militant group that dominates Gaza, that it is the enemy’s insistence on operating near shelters and other humanitarian sites that endangers civilians. But in the Jabaliya case, they provided no evidence of such activity and no explanation for the strike beyond saying that Palestinian militants were firing about 200 yards away.


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/04/w...n-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0
 

ChaharMahal

Elite Member
Oct 18, 2002
16,563
261
I really don't understand why we endlessly argue irrelevant points.

The reality is the rules of the game are always defined by those who are powerful.

and those who lack instruments of power try to use asymmetric techniques to change the equation in their favor.

Many of the techniques employed by Israel is quite Similar to techniques used by Allied and Axis forces during World War II.
That is modern methods of bombing civilians into submission and what have you.

Techniques used by Hamas and other Palestinian organizations are actually quite similar to What Partisans did during WWII and What actually Jewish Agency for Israel used to prior to 1948.

My Two Cents is that This conflict can only be realistically resolved is by having one State for all people that live in that Country. the right of return concourse complicates the calculus as well.

Because Frankly giving up land for Israelis is politically untenable.

Palestinians have already given up way too much and it does not appear as if they can have contiguous state. which is no state at all.

mean while until that equilibrium of power is reached 10 ,20 ,30 years from now many must endlessly suffer.

all that said. I humbly believe that if Palestinians were able to mount a solely non-violent campaign the world would be able to put Israel under far more pressure.

There is no honor in war.
تو دعوا حلوا تقسیم نمیکنند.