TM Iran Information Thread

Sly

Football Legend
Oct 18, 2002
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Bsides the point Oghabealborz made, the recovery camps as the name implies were limited in type of activity and duration, and TM staff got the players for a day after each club games, and there were times that the players could not attend the recovery camp due the proximity of their out of town matches.
But these are not good arguments. They already knew they'd get the players only for one day. He requested them himself for 1 day! It's not like it's come with a surprise now that 1 day of a recovery camp is very limited. He said to all IPL coaches himself that he promised the players would get much better and that the clubs can benefit from them even more. But obviously, they are the same lousy players they've always been.
 
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Feb 18, 2005
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What's baffling is, during the last WC he clearly said the players needed better physical training. They had to prepare to be able to run much more than they used to do. and it was successful The players could actually run for 90 minutes without getting tired.

Why didn't the IPL coaches capitalize on that afterwards, continuing to make all the players run more?

Even ahead of the AC and the WCQ games, CQ himself said many times, we should prepare to face Asian teams. For the WC we can prepare to face European/South American teams. Why? If he had prepared TM to face European teams with better physical training, the players would automatically be ready for all Asian teams and not the least, they'd be ready now!

It's like, we have a problem. We know we have it. We fix the problem. We continue to create the same problem again. Isn't that what is called "Mazokhizm"?!
The problem is our clubs and leagues are not consistent, squads keep changing all the time, no real infrastructure and continuity and too much side issues, lack of funds and continous interference by football mafia putting spanner into work.
 
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Feb 4, 2005
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A bit late to ask for the league games to stop IMO. But at least PP can release their players to TM. They will surely wn IPL without 4-5 main players and can have them for ACL games 2-3 days in advance.
 

Sly

Football Legend
Oct 18, 2002
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Also as someone said, he wants to train the players for 40 days. What can be done during 40 days that could not be done during the months of "one day per week training"?

What miracle is he hoping to achieve with these players during 40 days?

I've been taking sides with CQ the whole time. but if the players are not fit, I'm sorry to say, it's directly his fault. He already knew about his players' physical conditions for years. Any excuse of this kind is not acceptable IMO.
 
Feb 4, 2005
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zoozanagheh

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Feb 6, 2005
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But these are not good arguments. They already knew they'd get the players only for one day. He requested them himself for 1 day! It's not like it's come with a surprise now that 1 day of a recovery camp is very limited. He said to all IPL coaches himself that he promised the players would get much better and that the clubs can benefit from them even more. But obviously, they are the same lousy players they've always been.
You realize that the recovery camps has not been around for long, so when you keep saying months, it is not that he had players for 6-7 months, but we are talking about 6-8 sessions give or take (for each player) probably.

As it was reported before, the recovery camp has been helping the players with different aspect of their preparation (in comparison to the usual recovery session at their clubs), but apparently it has not be enough and when put into the test it has shown that they need more training and preparations. As Oghabealborz mentioned "it is a continuous assessment and you need to adopt and change as you go along."

You can blame him for his wrong assessment or lack of proper training for the players, but you gotta remember that even getting the clubs to agree to release their players for the recovery camp (as the minimum plan for the WC preparation) was a hard battle to win and faced heavy resistance from club coaches, imagine level of the fight and resistance if he wanted to go after his other plans.
Even now coaches like Branko insist that his players are ready for WC (anybody watched out of breath players during game vs Russia or other shortcomings during recent games?!).

You may recall he has asked officials and those involved in our football to choose between domestic league and Asian club competitions vs respectful WC presence for a long while now.
 
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zoozanagheh

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Feb 6, 2005
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It is really hard decision to sell. But remember we are in a very hard group as well. Our domestic players who are mainly in defensive roles either in the back line and goal or in the midfield, do not have much exposure to high level of international competition, are generally inexperienced and young, and not equipped with proper tools and training to be close to standard international level.

Did you not see Beiranvand's behavior towards the end of the game and right after, as if his team has eliminated a world cup opponent! I do not blame him much, after all he like many other players mostly have played against Arab and central asian teams during asian competitions (at club and national level) with couple of times vs. Korea (not to mention likes of Guam and India:). This is just a simple example. Of course coaches look at their level of play, decision making, physicall readiness and ... but this to me shows the mental level of players and amount of exposure and experience they have at international level.

Ivic took TM to camp for months and basically stopped the league. The result was good performance at WC98 in France despite being guided with Talebi who according to players had no contribution and tell them to go and play your best!

Now Perspolis has won the league, so what's the harm to continue with few of their players? and as for other clubs and asian matches, what is important and more valuable: WC or IPL and Asian championship? As CQ has asked and reminded many times, what are your priorities?
 
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Sly

Football Legend
Oct 18, 2002
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You realize that the recovery camps has not been around for long, so when you keep saying months, it is not that he had players for 6-7 months, but we are talking about 6-8 sessions give or take (for each player) probably.

As it was reported before, the recovery camp has been helping the players with different aspect of their preparation (in comparison to the usual recovery session at their clubs), but apparently it has not be enough and when put into the test it has shown that they need more training and preparations. As Oghabealborz mentioned "it is a continuous assessment and you need to adopt and change as you go along."

You can blame him for his wrong assessment or lack of proper training for the players, but you gotta remember that even getting the clubs to agree to release their players for the recovery camp (as the minimum plan for the WC preparation) was a hard battle to win and faced heavy resistance from club coaches, imagine level of the fight and resistance if he wanted to go after his other plans.
Even now coaches like Branko insist that his players are ready for WC (anybody watched out of breath players during game vs Russia or other shortcomings during recent games?!).

You may recall he has asked officials and those involved in our football to choose between domestic league and Asian club competitions vs respectful WC presence for a long while now.
These problems have always been there. yet he could actually get the players for one day a week training quite easily. I don't think any coach actually protested that. They let go of their players directly. But who's fault is it that the players got only 6-8 training sessions? If he thought these players needed that recovery camp, he should have started with it much earlier. We were the second team to qualify to the WC! He had all the times in the world at his hand.

I'm sorry, as said, I have sided with CQ the whole time but in this case, making the players ready for the WC, it's all his responsibility. If the players are not ready, it's his fault. Specially now that IFF have given him more or less anything he wanted. and 40 days or 20 days or what ever....if he doesn't prepare the players as they should be and we don't play at least the way we played against Argentina in the last WC, I'd say he's failed us the WC miserably.
 
Feb 18, 2005
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It is really hard decision to sell. But remember we are in a very hard group as well. Our domestic players who are mainly in defensive roles either in the back line and goal or in the midfield, do not have much exposure to high level of international competition, are generally inexperienced and young, and not equipped with proper tools and training to be close to standard international level.

Did you not see Beiranvand's behavior towards the end of the game and right after, as if his team has eliminated a world cup opponent! I do not blame him much, after all he like many other players mostly have played against Arab and central asian teams during asian competitions (at club and national level) with couple of times vs. Korea (not to mention likes of Guam and India:). This is just a simple example. Of course coaches look at their level of play, decision making, physicall readiness and ... but this to me shows the mental level of players and amount of exposure and experience they have at international level.

Ivic took TM to camp for months and basically stopped the league. The result was good performance at WC98 in France despite being guided with Talebi who according to players had no contribution and tell them to go and play your best!

Now Perspolis has won the league, so what's the harm to continue with few of their players? and as for other clubs and asian matches, what is important and more valuable: WC or IPL and Asian championship? As CQ has asked and reminded many times, what are your priorities?

You are spot on , I don't think his request will be obliged ,he has to do the best he can with what he has got and the limited time he will have with the players to get them as prepared as possible .

He may not have the ideal 40 days he has asked for to prepare them physically , but knowing what a great motivator that he is he will have enough time to prepare them mentally .

The question is ,will that be enough ? ....well it is a challenge and nothing to lose , so give it your best and who knows it could be one of those off days for those football giants that we are going to face and when you have players like Azmoon ,Jahanbakhsh ,Ghodous you are always in with a chance to score against any team .
 
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zoozanagheh

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Feb 6, 2005
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These problems have always been there. yet he could actually get the players for one day a week training quite easily. I don't think any coach actually protested that. They let go of their players directly.
My recollection is different than yours. There were resistance as usual.
Keep in mind this (recovery camp) was like a compromise/minimal plan, so do not confuse it with his master plan (read on below).


Specially now that IFF have given him more or less anything he wanted. .
That's not true. He has asked since early on and on different occasions, over and over, to make a choice between WC and AFC/IPL, so he can have players during May when AFC has scheduled club championship games (I am not sure but those days may even be on FIFA days).

So in essence what he is asking for today is not much different than what he has been asking over a year now. May be the word "40 days" throws you off, but it is his way of sending yet another reminder and waking up call to IFF, officials at sports ministry and football society of Iran in general for the urgent need to understand the task at hand without any illusion about our own abilities and level, and the necessity to set the proper priorities straight and make a decision: choose WC or AFC.

To put in a language that officials would understand: you can not have both khar and khorma!


But who's fault is it that the players got only 6-8 training sessions? If he thought these players needed that recovery camp, he should have started with it much earlier. We were the second team to qualify to the WC! He had all the times in the world at his hand.

I'm sorry, as said, I have sided with CQ the whole time but in this case, making the players ready for the WC, it's all his responsibility. If the players are not ready, it's his fault. .
Specially now that IFF have given him more or less anything he wanted. and 40 days or 20 days or what ever....if he doesn't prepare the players as they should be and we don't play at least the way we played against Argentina in the last WC, I'd say he's failed us the WC miserably
As I mentioned in above what he says is nothing new in reality he is just presenting it in a different way to open officials, media and fan's eyes to the hardship of task at hand the need for special, focused and continues preparation at a higher level than those offered at clubs.

But it seems like you found the guilty party and are ready to hang him! Might as well throw couple of stones at him too!
But even if that's what he deserves, you gotta ask yourself: guilty party aside, do I want to see a successful performance at WC by TM where we earn world's attention and respect or not? If so, what would be the best option to go forward? Beat the hell of CQ for what you perceive as his failure and misjudgement and let him fail further by not giving what he says he needs, or give the helm to someone else or should we pave the path and listen to what he has been emphasizing on from day one since we qualified?
 
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Ali N.

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Aug 3, 2004
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I think this CQ's comment today can be looked at and taken 2 different ways.
One: For those players playing in domestic league including the club management and staff to take this as an insult and become defensive about it, trying to justify themselves by attacking or responding to CQ and others who stay behind this argument.
Two: Take this as a motivation factor for those domestic league players and work hard (and even harder) to improve (and even prove everyone behind that argument wrong based on their capabilities).
Let's face it, we knew from the beginning that our legionnaires are better than our domestic league players, that is why they were invited in the first place. Unfortunately, the problem is not mainly the domestic players... financial backing along with management and infrastructure of clubs are what explains the situation.
 

zoozanagheh

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Feb 6, 2005
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These problems have always been there. yet he could actually get the players for one day a week training quite easily. I don't think any coach actually protested that. They let go of their players directly. But who's fault is it that the players got only 6-8 training sessions? If he thought these players needed that recovery camp, he should have started with it much earlier. We were the second team to qualify to the WC! He had all the times in the world at his hand.

I'm sorry, as said, I have sided with CQ the whole time but in this case, making the players ready for the WC, it's all his responsibility. If the players are not ready, it's his fault. Specially now that IFF have given him more or less anything he wanted. and 40 days or 20 days or what ever....if he doesn't prepare the players as they should be and we don't play at least the way we played against Argentina in the last WC, I'd say he's failed us the WC miserably.
Here is an interview with Oceano de Cruz from about two months ago that would answer many of your concerns and questions.

I highly recommend you and everyone else to read it carefully before jumping to the gun:

Oceano's interview


Keep in mind that all along CQ has insisted on having domestic players in the camp during month of May and have arranged friendlies with syria and Uzbeks for that month, however the conflict is between WC preparations vs AFC competitions, and CQ and his staff has asked many times that IFF and sport ministry to make a decision and choose between the priority between the two. CQ's latest interview where he is asking for 40 days of training for domestic players is in line with that old request and unresolved issue.


- About level of cooperation or resistance of the clubs to release players to recovery camp:

برای ما ناراحت‌کننده است که برای در اختیار گرفتن بازیکنان برای یک و نیم روز دشواری داشتیم و مشکلاتی بین باشگاه‌ها، مربیان و فدراسیون فوتبال به وجود آمد و این هم به خاطر این مسئله است که فکر می‌کنم در مواقع اتخاذ چنین تصمیماتی تیم ملی ایران در اولویت دوم دیده می‌شود. در این شرایط متأسفانه اولویت اصلی با باشگاه‌هاست، اینکه باشگاه‌ها چه می‌خواهند، اینکه باشگاه‌ها در لیگ قهرمانان چه می‌کنند و بعد از آن نوبت به تیم ملی می‌رسد

- Regarding the need to have special and extended preparations :

وی با بیان جمله‌ای از کارلوس کی‌روش که شرایط آمادگی تیم ملی کیلومترها با حریفان فاصله دارد، گفت: ....اما ما با وجود کمبود امکانات مثل زمین تمرین و زمان ناکافی برای انجام تمرینات با بازیکنان، فکر می‌کنیم که باید از همه دنیا بهتر باشیم و این درست نیست.

مربی تیم ملی با بیان اینکه برای رقابت با حریفان و ایجاد غرور و افتخار ملی به دو برابر کار بیشتر در مقایسه با حریفان نیاز داریم، گفت: ما برای انجام دو برابر کار بیشتر به دو برابر زمان بیشتر برای در اختیار داشتن بازیکنان و دو برابر تمرین بیشتر و بازی‌های بیشتر با این بازیکنان نیاز داریم، چون امکان دارد حضوری این چنینی باعث ریسکی شرم‌آور شود و این نه برای ما، نه برای بازیکنان و نه برای فوتبال ایران خوب است.
- About the need to make a decision on priorities - WC or AFC:

برای جلوگیری از این اتفاق، اکنون زمانی است که کار بیشتری را شروع کنیم و نیاز داریم درخواست دوستانه‌ای داشته باشیم و خیلی جدی به این فکر کنیم که وقتی زمان اردوی نهایی در اردیبهشت می‌رسد و لیگ قهرمانان آسیا هم برگزار می‌شود، چه کنیم. بازیکنان را به تیم ملی بدهیم یا اینکه باشگاه‌ها در اولویت باشند و بعد از آن تیم ملی.

...

مربی تیم ملی با بیان اینکه حتماً باشگاه‌ها از اهمیت فراوانی برخوردارند، گفت: باشگاه‌ها مهم هستند و به این موضوع هم اعتقاد دارم که هر چقدر باشگاه‌ها بهتر کار کنند، ما هم بازیکنان بهتری در تیم ملی داریم، اما در سال جام جهانی فکر می‌کنم باید اولویت‌ها کمی تغییر کند و اولویت اصلی باید با تیم ملی باشد.

....

اگر ما می‌خواهیم ایرانی‌ها صد درصد شاد باشند باید صد درصد متوجه باشیم الان زمانی است که باید اولویت را به تیم ملی بدهیم. اگر همه بتوانیم به یک سمت فکر کنیم، تیم ملی می‌تواند نتایج بزرگی در جام جهانی کسب کند، اما این بستگی به کسانی دارد که در کشور تصمیم‌گیر هستند و نه تنها فوتبال.

- Regarding the objective and expectation of the recovery camps:


اوسیانو در پاسخ به این سؤال که تعامل ایجاد شده بین باشگاه‌ها و تیم ملی در موضوع ریکاوری بازیکنان راضی‌کننده و کافی است؟ گفت: راضی هستم اما کافی نیست. کاری که تلاش می‌کنیم انجام دهیم ریکاوری این بازیکنان است. نمی‌گویم همه تیم‌ها، اما تقریبا بخش بزرگی از تیم‌ها سالن جیم، استخر و دوچرخه‌های ویژه ریکاوری ندارند و ما به بازیکنانی که در ماتریکس تیم ملی حضور دارند کمک می‌کنیم که تمرینات ریکاوری را انجام دهند، اما این مربوط به بخش ریکاوری است و ما کمی بیشتر به این نیاز داریم. به بالا بردن توان فیزیکی بازیکنان در کمپ‌ها نیاز داریم چرا که بازیکنان در کمپ هر روز می‌توانند تمرینات ریکاوری، فیزیکی و تاکتیکی را انجام دهند.

- Regarding the need to have players during the month of May:

وی افزود: اگر از الان شروع کنیم در وسط کار مسابقات لیگ قهرمانان را داریم و در بعضی تاریخ‌ها سه روز قبل از شروع کمپ، لیگ قهرمانان برگزار می‌شود. از نظر من مهمترین کمپ، اردوی اردیبهشت است. در میانه این اردو مسابقات لیگ قهرمانان را داریم و برای بازیکنان داخلی خیلی بد است که مدام در بین کمپ و مسابقات لیگ قهرمانان در رفت و آمد باشند. این برای هیچ کس خوب نیست، حتی برای باشگاه‌ها و بیشتر از همه به ضرر بازیکنان است. بنابراین ممکن است نیاز باشد فکر دیگر و تصمیم دیگری گرفته شود. به خاطر اینکه اگر نتوانیم با بازیکنان در ابعاد تاکتیکی که از اهمیت بالایی در جام جهانی برخوردار است تمرین کنیم و همینطور در ابعاد فیزیکی آنها را بهبود ببخشیم، شاید نیاز پیدا کنیم به فکر این باشیم که روی بازیکنانی حساب کنیم که بتوانیم از آنها استفاده کنیم. در جام جهانی جزئیات اهمیت فراونی دارند و شما در این کمپ‌ها تلاش می‌کنید که همه این جزییات را بهبود ببخشید؛ جزییاتی که می‌تواند میزان اهمیت شما به آنها، شما را پیروز کند یا از شما یک بازنده بسازد.

 

zoozanagheh

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Feb 6, 2005
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If the objective of TM staff is to have the players during May, I do not think it would impact Daei's team, Saipa, as IPL final week is on 27 April/7 Ordibehesht.

In that case it only would concern the two sports ministry owned clubs (Perspolis and Esteghlal) and a government owned industrial team (Zob Ahan).