Trump is the president

Pooya

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Gotta say both Trump and Biden suck ... however, are we discussing here as an Iranian or American point of view ?
Sure they both aint "perfect" . Unfortunately that is the common theme in many countries, look at Canada , no really good leader, same with Trump. Biden aint perfect, but I take him anyday over Trump.
 

Farz

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2018
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Don't we think this should indicate the way we've organised our societies is wrong rather than the particular people who rise to the top? I mean it is a system based on he who exploits better wins!
 
Oct 20, 2002
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LOL! the "damage" Trump has caused. Yeah. Don't worry though. Biden will fix it. No wait, Biden is an old man and white. EWWWWW! Fuck him.

Kamala Harris will fix it with the help of Alexander Occasional Cortex, Rashida Tlaib and the almighty patriot Ilhan Omar. Lovely bunch! All are women and not white! What could be better?
Trump has a good record at succeeding in nothing besides a reality TV show. I put more faith in Biden. You can put faith in a guy who believes drinking bleach will cure Covid. Let me ask you this, if Trump is re-elected sits down and talks with the mullahs re-negotiates a deal that lifts the sanctions will you still support him?
 
Oct 20, 2002
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I don't really support him. Who really supports people in power these days anyway?

He will most likely sit down with I.R and negotiate a deal. That has been his intention all along.
Support/like same thing. You obviously have a favorable view of him. And yes, he would sit down with Rouhani in a blink of an eye if he could which is sad because he is practically begging for a photo opt just like he did with Kim.
 
Support/like same thing. You obviously have a favorable view of him. And yes, he would sit down with Rouhani in a blink of an eye if he could which is sad because he is practically begging for a photo opt just like he did with Kim.
What is sad about it? He wants a deal on America's terms which he'll get if status-quo remains. What do you want him to do? Assassinate Khamenei and drop bombs? He might do that too, but then you'd probably call him a warmonger.

Trouble is, he's been doing the right thing in many cases, but he never gets credit for anything. The guy truly cares for his country and his people. Most times he gets it right. Sometimes he doesn't. He's been a very good president. The most transparent of all in recent history. He's far better than anything the democrats or even GOP could offer right now.
 
Oct 20, 2002
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What is sad about it? He wants a deal on America's terms which he'll get if status-quo remains. What do you want him to do? Assassinate Khamenei and drop bombs? He might do that too, but then you'd probably call him a warmonger.

Trouble is, he's been doing the right thing in many cases, but he never gets credit for anything. The guy truly cares for his country and his people. Most times he gets it right. Sometimes he doesn't. He's been a very good president. The most transparent of all in recent history. He's far better than anything the democrats or even GOP could offer right now.
So if he delivers cash to Iran just like the Obama administration did you would have no issue with that at all? And I laugh when you say he loves his country because that is false. He only loves himself and will do anything to elevate himself. That is why TV ratings, crowd sizes, polls are so important for him.
 
So if he delivers cash to Iran just like the Obama administration did you would have no issue with that at all? And I laugh when you say he loves his country because that is false. He only loves himself and will do anything to elevate himself. That is why TV ratings, crowd sizes, polls are so important for him.
You keep hypothesizing on things that haven't happened as if they're facts. Truth is, Trump has delivered the biggest blow to I.R's expansionism in history. Truth is, his tough stance against I.R has resulted in a much more transparent picture of the situation in Iran for the general masses and they can now easily see how the country is on a path to nowhere. This is directly thanks to Trump.

As for his love for his country, it's undeniable. He panders to those who want USA to be the absolute authority in everything. Of course, it's a dream that cannot fully materialize in this day and age, but it's his nationalist rhetoric that got him elected. Has he walked back on them? Not in my book. He's still looking for a way to weaken the competition (China more than others) and in the process he absolutely wants to make sure he makes a name for himself and his brand. What is wrong with that? How is that a bad thing for the US nation?

You talk about Trump's desire for good TV ratings, crowd sizes and polls as if it's a bad thing. It's not. This guy is running a divided country where he lost the popular vote to a cunt like Hillary Clinton and got impeached by a ruthless congress. If he manages to somehow survive this impossible division and lead his nation to more prosperity (which he absolutely did pre-covid), I would say he deserves credit and excellent TV ratings, crowd sizes and polls.

He doesn't play with words (because he doesn't have the brain for it). His actions speak loud. He's been good for America and he's good for the world of politics. If you can't see that, well, then ...
 
Oct 20, 2002
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You keep hypothesizing on things that haven't happened as if they're facts. Truth is, Trump has delivered the biggest blow to I.R's expansionism in history. Truth is, his tough stance against I.R has resulted in a much more transparent picture of the situation in Iran for the general masses and they can now easily see how the country is on a path to nowhere. This is directly thanks to Trump.

As for his love for his country, it's undeniable. He panders to those who want USA to be the absolute authority in everything. Of course, it's a dream that cannot fully materialize in this day and age, but it's his nationalist rhetoric that got him elected. Has he walked back on them? Not in my book. He's still looking for a way to weaken the competition (China more than others) and in the process he absolutely wants to make sure he makes a name for himself and his brand. What is wrong with that? How is that a bad thing for the US nation?

You talk about Trump's desire for good TV ratings, crowd sizes and polls as if it's a bad thing. It's not. This guy is running a divided country where he lost the popular vote to a cunt like Hillary Clinton and got impeached by a ruthless congress. If he manages to somehow survive this impossible division and lead his nation to more prosperity (which he absolutely did pre-covid), I would say he deserves credit and excellent TV ratings, crowd sizes and polls.

He doesn't play with words (because he doesn't have the brain for it). His actions speak loud. He's been good for America and he's good for the world of politics. If you can't see that, well, then ...
The reason I ask these hypothetical questions is because there is a very good chance it will happen because Trump has a tendency to do things that he complained about when Obama was the president and his supporters are blind to this fact. For example, Obama golfs too much (Trump has golfed more than any other president). Trump is not a man of principles, he will say one thing one day and act the total opposite the next day. I agree that he has done more damage to IRI compared to any other US president but that could all change. He would re-negotiate a deal tomorrow if he could which would benefit the IRI and there is a very good chance that could happen if he gets elected for a second term. Truth is that Trump doesn't give a shit about the IRI saying in power or not. All he cares about is getting a deal done with his name on it.

Nationalism in the United States is equated to preserving the white/European culture. This is not achievable in a country where its demographics are made of immigrants. Trumps love for the country extends to mostly white people and they are not the majority.

I am not talking about if he deserves credit about good ratings,crowd size or poll results. I am talking about the fact that the guy is a narcissist who only cares about those things. Trump was so upset about less people showing up to his inauguration compared to Obama that he made a big deal out of it and lied his ass off.
 
Nationalism in the United States is equated to preserving the white/European culture.
Why would you be opposed to preserving a culture that made America what it is?! Why would you want that culture replaced or mixed with garbage from Africa, South America, South Asia or Middle East where shitholes are abundant and everybody is looking to get the fuck out? This is the problem with most liberals. They want the goods without actually paying for it.

Hey, you enjoy living in a decent country because it was founded on white/European culture. Yes, it's not the culture you were born into and it's not as mushy in some aspects but that's the price you pay for living in it. Why would you want to change it and bring it closer to the culture that made you flee your place of birth?

Trump has a tendency to do things that he complained about when Obama was the president and his supporters are blind to this fact.
I am talking about the fact that the guy is a narcissist who only cares about those things
No one except a very small minority is blind to Trump's very apparent narcissism. Every single president in history has been a narcissist. It's a basic requirement of the job. They show it in different ways. It's not pleasant at all, but that's a very well known flaw of humans. They're drawn and conform to narcissistic behavior. We're not changing that anytime soon.

Trump is clearly the wiser choice in this election. There is no alternative right now. It's not his fault his opposition have gone absolutely insane.
 
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Why would you be opposed to preserving a culture that made America what it is?! Why would you want that culture replaced or mixed with garbage from Africa, South America, South Asia or Middle East where shitholes are abundant and everybody is looking to get the fuck out? This is the problem with most liberals. They want the goods without actually paying for it.

Hey, you enjoy living in a decent country because it was founded on white/European culture. Yes, it's not the culture you were born into and it's not as mushy in some aspects but that's the price you pay for living in it. Why would you want to change it and bring it closer to the culture that made you flee your place of birth?
These words should be written in gold and framed. I have been arguing this here for years.

I am always aghast at immigrants who have thrived in the UK system and have succeeded in life in a way that was never possible in their countries of origin. Yet they bash the system constantly and some even go as far as wanting it destroyed entirely (see BLM supporters). If this country is racist then get the fck out.

These people don't have an ounce of honesty with themselves, otherwise this wouldn't even an issue for them.
 
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Farz

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2018
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Why would you be opposed to preserving a culture that made America what it is?! Why would you want that culture replaced or mixed with garbage from Africa, South America, South Asia or Middle East where shitholes are abundant and everybody is looking to get the fuck out? This is the problem with most liberals. They want the goods without actually paying for it.

Hey, you enjoy living in a decent country because it was founded on white/European culture. Yes, it's not the culture you were born into and it's not as mushy in some aspects but that's the price you pay for living in it. Why would you want to change it and bring it closer to the culture that made you flee your place of birth?
Come on man, trolling is OK but white European culture as you put it is where it is because it managed to fuck the rest of the world to get it.. I'm not saying anyone else wouldn't have and previous empires did too, but the sudden advances in technology and industrialisation allowed to happen more efficiently than before and hence why it lasted.

Again, just to make it clear, not saying anyone else in their position would have done things any differently, but you need to understand why things are the way they are! It's like people voting for governments choosing to bomb other countries then being upset that people from those countries come over as refugees!

I think racial stereotypes sometimes have some truth to them and people from similar cultures do sometimes act in similar ways but this is born out of the circumstances that they've been subjected to - not subjected to by any particular person or entity but just by how things have turned out! But to say particular races are inherently inferior to particular other ones doesn't have any roots in facts or evidence and if anything evidence suggests people are very maluable and adapt to their environment.

Anyway I feel like a lot of people exaggerate their opinions because of how non politically correct in might seem and to piss off the liberals.. But yeah maybe if you noticed a difference across cultures, you're not imagining it, and be told to shut up about it but you need to delve a little deeper to understand the reasons rather than to become a white supremacist - and then divorcing your wife for being a sand n.. Lover?
 
Come on man, trolling is OK but white European culture as you put it is where it is because it managed to fuck the rest of the world to get it.. I'm not saying anyone else wouldn't have and previous empires did too, but the sudden advances in technology and industrialisation allowed to happen more efficiently than before and hence why it lasted.
The biggest reason White European culture flourished is the rule of law and the value of honesty among the elites, mostly thanks to the British empire. Not sure exactly how, but over the course of history, Europeans and most of all the British became more honest and mostly law-abiding people. Whoever undermines the value of honesty in a society deserves all the misery coming to them. Most other cultures around the world suffer from a much higher level of dishonesty among the masses. America was first and foremost founded on the concept of "a handshake is a promise not to be broken". Later, it adopted mostly English laws that were actually heeded by most people.

Again, just to make it clear, not saying anyone else in their position would have done things any differently, but you need to understand why things are the way they are! It's like people voting for governments choosing to bomb other countries then being upset that people from those countries come over as refugees!
Good for them. They got to the position of "bombing" first. It's a competition and it always will be. They've been winning and will continue to win until other cultures start valuing the rule of law.

I think racial stereotypes sometimes have some truth to them and people from similar cultures do sometimes act in similar ways but this is born out of the circumstances that they've been subjected to - not subjected to by any particular person or entity but just by how things have turned out! But to say particular races are inherently inferior to particular other ones doesn't have any roots in facts or evidence and if anything evidence suggests people are very maluable and adapt to their environment.
There was absolutely nothing racist in my post. NONE. Nowhere did I mention a race was superior or inferior to others. Cultures are indeed at different levels. Some are vastly superior to others.
Anyway I feel like a lot of people exaggerate their opinions because of how non politically correct in might seem and to piss off the liberals.. But yeah maybe if you noticed a difference across cultures, you're not imagining it, and be told to shut up about it but you need to delve a little deeper to understand the reasons rather than to become a white supremacist - and then divorcing your wife for being a sand n.. Lover?
Who are you referring to?
 

Farz

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2018
53
40
Thanks for taking the time to reply. I know people notoriously don't change their position on message boards but I know I've disagreed with you on stuff in the past, and then realised you were right.. Might happen again or the opposite could happen or pigs could fly.. Who knows!

The biggest reason White European culture flourished is the rule of law and the value of honesty among the elites, mostly thanks to the British empire. Not sure exactly how, but over the course of history, Europeans and most of all the British became more honest and mostly law-abiding people. Whoever undermines the value of honesty in a society deserves all the misery coming to them. Most other cultures around the world suffer from a much higher level of dishonesty among the masses. America was first and foremost founded on the concept of "a handshake is a promise not to be broken". Later, it adopted mostly English laws that were actually heeded by most people.
Is there any source or evidence for the claim " Europeans and most of all the British became more honest and mostly law-abiding people"?

I'm asking from a genuine place of ignorance!

Good for them. They got to the position of "bombing" first. It's a competition and it always will be. They've been winning and will continue to win until other cultures start valuing the rule of law.
Ok here I disagree.. I think we have been using the competition model for too long and it doesn't fit anymore. Competition makes sense when it's required for survival but when there is enough for everyone and somehow the people who already have power, just continue to gain more and more, it might be time to look at a new way?

You keep mentioning rule of law, but first I assume you're still referring to just amongst themselves because I'm sure you're aware how they gained and continue to gain their wealth and power internationally! But then even within esp the UK and US who seem to be separating themselves from the rest of the world in terms of neoliberalism, I don't rule see any respect for the law by the people in power so I'm not sure where this notion is coming from? Do you mean enforcing arbitrary laws on the powerless segments of society so you can use them as slave labour in prisons?

There was absolutely nothing racist in my post. NONE. Nowhere did I mention a race was superior or inferior to others. Cultures are indeed at different levels. Some are vastly superior to others.

Who are you referring to?
I apologise as I had thought you had referred to race rather than culture. Although there is a growing concensus* that a lot of racism now is disguised behind a critique of culture; I'm not going to get into that... I just misread your post!

And I was rather unsuccessfully trying to reference the chappelle show skit! I'll either try to do better next time or at least not try at all!
*growing concensus :I once heard one guy claim that on a podcast!
 
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Thanks for taking the time to reply. I know people notoriously don't change their position on message boards but I know I've disagreed with you on stuff in the past, and then realised you were right.. Might happen again or the opposite could happen or pigs could fly.. Who knows!
Always nice to discuss things with legitimately intelligent and well mannered people. Apologies if I sometimes sound harsh. I've been told I can be an asshole. I'm working on it.

Is there any source or evidence for the claim " Europeans and most of all the British became more honest and mostly law-abiding people"?

I'm asking from a genuine place of ignorance!
Yes. The evidence is in the millions. The rule of law is the sole reason you are not living in Iran and in a more well run country. Consistent enforcement of logical laws and the inevitable ensuing obedience results in less energy expelled on deceit and fraud by the masses. It reduces corruption and fear. It encourages innovation and ambition. Again, this is only true about logical laws, not shitty ones like slavery or forced hejab.

The rule of law always results in more honesty without exception. It would be a completely scientific stereotype to assign the label "more honest" to the people born and raised in countries like England, Canada, USA and Australia when compared to most other countries. It's a direct result of the rule of law.

Ok here I disagree.. I think we have been using the competition model for too long and it doesn't fit anymore. Competition makes sense when it's required for survival but when there is enough for everyone and somehow the people who already have power, just continue to gain more and more, it might be time to look at a new way?
Disagreeing with nature never works. I hate the fact that I have to pee 13 times a day and totally disagree with the digestion model. Our toilet hasn't seen any reduction in use due to my feelings.

You keep mentioning rule of law, but first I assume you're still referring to just amongst themselves because I'm sure you're aware how they gained and continue to gain their wealth and power internationally! But then even within esp the UK and US who seem to be separating themselves from the rest of the world in terms of neoliberalism, I don't rule see any respect for the law by the people in power so I'm not sure where this notion is coming from? Do you mean enforcing arbitrary laws on the powerless segments of society so you can use them as slave labour in prisons?
That's more a rant than an argument. Yes, the rule of law among their own population. That's where you start. And if it means using prisoners as slave laborers, then so be it. The rule of law has a price. Societies must be willing to pay for it.

As for conforming to UN laws and being fair to other countries, it's never going to happen. Humans are tribal mammals. They will never choose fairness over protecting and enriching their own. That's why the rule of law at the world level is next to impossible. If there's to be a superpower that acts like the world police, I much prefer it to be the USA, because it comes with more honesty and transparency.

Before I finish, I want to put this here as well: The rule of law encourages less dependency on relations. It makes children less dependent on parents' protection. This is the most important reward of the rule of law. Less dependence on parents and a more independent personality results in much desirable leaps in self-growth and attainments. Dependence on family relations in adulthood is one of the biggest hindrances faced by a typical 3rd-worlder. It's a mental disease that plagues many cultures, of which, some unfortunately embrace it instead of addressing it as a weakness. Again, the rule of law is the very first step in remedying this cultural plague.
 
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Farz

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2018
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Always nice to discuss things with legitimately intelligent and well mannered people. Apologies if I sometimes sound harsh. I've been told I can be an asshole. I'm working on it.
Yeah well it's part of internet culture to just use it to vent off sometimes, but it's good to be able to have a civilised conversation every now and then! :)


Yes. The evidence is in the millions. The rule of law is the sole reason you are not living in Iran and in a more well run country.
Plausible but still a bold assumption! I didn't choose to be where I am, stayed out of laziness and hope to move to mexico; not exactly known for its respect of the law!

Personally I think the only laws or restrictions that should be imposed by a central power would be to not harm anyone else (and no words don't count!). I think living in Iran I genuinely had this idea that European or western countries have more respect for thr law but my experience and especially try more I follow politics has been that the laws only apply to people without money or power (pretty much interchangeable terms). Boris Johnson was the mayor, managed to get funding assigned to a woman he was dating and even took her on trade missions, is on the record lying about everything and even hid in the fridge to avoid a piers Morgan interview and what is his punishment? He gets to be prime minister! Most politicians admit to having "tried" drugs and never really had to worry about punishments, the economy is structured in a way that bankers can swindle billions out of people and not only no one has to take responsibility and go to jail but they can also get government bailout because they're too big to fail! I'm sure you don't have to think hard to come up with examples of how the rule of law doesn't actually apply if you have money or power..

What I kinda half jokingly say about mexico is that I prefer that type of corruption as at least everyone has a chance to payoff the cops rather than just the top tier of society! :)

The rule of law always results in more honesty without exception. It would be a completely scientific stereotype to assign the label "more honest" to the people born and raised in countries like England, Canada, USA and Australia when compared to most other countries. It's a direct result of the rule of law.
Again without relying on stereotypes, can you please cite any study comparing the prevalence of honesty between different cultures and countries? I don't actually have an assumption one way or another but obviously in a country like Iran people would have to be less honest in order to avoid arrest and maybe "aberoo" but not sure iran with its extra unique set of circumstances is the best example of a non-western country!

Disagreeing with nature never works. I hate the fact that I have to pee 13 times a day and totally disagree with the digestion model. Our toilet hasn't seen any reduction in use due to my feelings.

That's more a rant than an argument. Yes, the rule of law among their own population. That's where you start. And if it means using prisoners as slave laborers, then so be it. The rule of law has a price. Societies must be willing to pay for it.
I would argue nature is a very vague notion as the nature of things keep evolving and changing!

There was a time and a place when burying people alive seemed like a natural thing to do.. We can't call our observation of people's behaviour rules of nature!

I'm pretty sure there are already scientific studies showing how differently people and other animals behave when they already have everything they need compared to when they have to fight for survival and I would argue there has never been a time in history where everyone could possibly have everything they need without harming others as there is now!

As for conforming to UN laws and being fair to other countries, it's never going to happen. Humans are tribal mammals. They will never choose fairness over protecting and enriching their own. That's why the rule of law at the world level is next to impossible. If there's to be a superpower that acts like the world police, I much prefer it to be the USA, because it comes with more honesty and transparency.
This gets thrown about a lot about usa being such a benevolent super power but again I don't know if there is any factual basis for it? It may just be a result of us being more exposed to certain media having already developed a hatrid for a party than we think of the other side (iri). Can you think of any country that has or would have overthrown more democratically elected governments than America and always under some other disguise?
I would concede the point you have made in other posts though that trump is the most honest American president in my life time! He literally said he wants to go to Venezuela because they have a lot of oil and if they get their person in l, they can have some of it and similar comments on Syria so yeah not many others who would have said the quiet parts out loud!

Before I finish, I want to put this here as well: The rule of law encourages less dependency on relations. It makes children less dependent on parents' protection. This is the most important reward of the rule of law. Less dependence on parents and a more independent personality results in much desirable leaps in self-growth and attainments. Dependence on family relations in adulthood is one of the biggest hindrances faced by a typical 3rd-worlder. It's a mental disease that plagues many cultures, of which, some unfortunately embrace it instead of addressing it as a weakness. Again, the rule of law is the very first step in remedying this cultural plague.
It's interesting you should make that point as I am fairly sure the number one indicator of wealth and therefore material "success" in most Western countries is family wealth! Of course there are the individuals who go against the trade and are used as motivation for the rest of the population but the chances of people from the wrong background is pretty much the same as winning the lottery but of course someone has to win every now and then otherwise people will stop playing and the whole thing falls apart!

Ps.. Sorry for all the typos and even wrong words sometimes.. I'm self diagnosed dyslexic and typing a long post with quotes on a phone was hard enough so really can't be bothered to go through it to correct; hopefully you'll understand me anyway!