Trump is the president

Farz

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2018
66
52
Sorry I just want to point out one more thing that made me proper disillusioned with uk rule of law.. Did you ever read about the undercover police officers that "infiltrated" environmentalist groups, and went as far as having children with women in the group under their false identities? The establishment obviously didn't accept responsibility for their actions but also didn't punish anyone - suggesting the actions were sanctioned! I've never even heard of iri going as far as making a pretend family with kids and everything to spy on people that want to protect the environment!

Not that I think you'll need convincing if you want to know examples of the American system subverting their own laws to manipulate their own people, this is a good conversation with someone who spent 20 years researching his book:
 
Sorry I just want to point out one more thing that made me proper disillusioned with uk rule of law.. Did you ever read about the undercover police officers that "infiltrated" environmentalist groups, and went as far as having children with women in the group under their false identities? The establishment obviously didn't accept responsibility for their actions but also didn't punish anyone - suggesting the actions were sanctioned! I've never even heard of iri going as far as making a pretend family with kids and everything to spy on people that want to protect the environment!

What is the point you are making? That story was exposed by the UK police itself and the person who did it was later punished according to the law.

To imply that was an example of institutional law breaking is fundamentally wrong. It was individual officers going against the code of practice.

Do you know how many judges in IR misuse their position by sleeping with women in order to free their husbands from jail? Such scandals are rife in IR.

What is also rife in IR, is Sepahi women called ""Parastoo", who are sent by Sepah to befriend dissidents and in some cases lure them back.
 

Farz

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2018
66
52
Why are you shouting? What was the punishment? So these were rogue officers who all happened to be very passionate about stopping people saving the environment? Dude iri is clearly fucked.. I'm sure we could have a few hours discussion about the reasons why but they have enough enemies not to have time to infiltrate environmentalist groups!

For those that don't know
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...ercover-policeman-robbed-chance-have-children

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_undercover_policing_relationships_scandal

Can you remind me what the punishment was again? You don't even need to shout!

Again in case there's a misunderstanding, I am not saying iri wouldn't do this cuz they're better, I'm not saying one government is corrupt and another isn't!

You could say I got "trigerred" by idea of superior or inferior cultures (which I had mistakenly read as race, otherwise probably wouldn't have started the conversation!) as if one is innately more immune to corruption than another! In fact as long as the basis for any of our societies is competition, there will always be corruption, and the more powerful one part gets, the more corrupt it is as it probably needed to get there!

It doesn't matter what race or creed or culture is involved, the result of competition is some people have to win and they have to fuck over other people to do it, the bigger they win, the more you know someone else got fucked!
 
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Ps.. Sorry for all the typos and even wrong words sometimes.. I'm self diagnosed dyslexic and typing a long post with quotes on a phone was hard enough so really can't be bothered to go through it to correct; hopefully you'll understand me anyway!
No worries. Your points were clear and I can summarize my understanding of them in two sentences:

"The laws in the west are not applied equally across the social spectrum"
"There needs to be consistent enforcement of the law at all levels"

I wholeheartedly agree with you.

Yet, your example of Mexico being your preferred place to live due to its accessible corruption and perhaps other climate-related factors is quite interesting.

Not sure if you've been to Mexico for anything other than a week-long vacation. I have and let me tell you this: It's a nightmare for someone with your belief-system. You will learn that the painful way if you ever move there without completely accepting the unfairness of it all. As a Canadian who can live like a king in places like Mexico or Cuba, I too prefer them to this frozen hell, but that's due to my selfishness and nothing else.

I stand by everything I said about the rule of law and it seems like you too are saying the same thing. It's just that in my opinion the whole thing doesn't have to be looked at in absolutes. Yes, the British, US, Canadian and generally the western version of "rule of law" is anything but perfect. It's actually garbage in some aspects, but it's still centuries ahead of what's being practiced in most other parts of the world. There is absolutely no comparison between the level of corruption and deceit experienced by the masses in most countries not defined as "the west" and those that are. You know this.
 
In fact as long as the basis for any of our societies is competition, there will always be corruption, and the more powerful one part gets, the more corrupt it is as it probably needed to get there!

It doesn't matter what race or creed or culture is involved, the result of competition is some people have to win and they have to fuck over other people to do it, the bigger they win, the more you know someone else got fucked!
I have no idea what philosophy or science that entire claim is based on. If anything, history proves you wrong over and over again. You don't even need to go back a long time. Just tell me, who has gotten "fucked" because of the Department of Defense communication mandate that brought us the internet from the deep server rooms of the Pentagon? Or the Covid vaccine that will inevitably show up in the next few months from the competitive laboratories of the biotech sector? Who got fucked when NASA landed man on the moon?
 

Farz

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2018
66
52
Yeah man I know about mexico, I've only spent a few months there but I did say "half jokingly" because they have a lot of their own problems.

The reason I want to go there is mainly the weather, the food, the nature and the people! I have pretty much liked every Mexican person I've ever had a meaningful exchange with! I know everything is more corrupt there than a lot of other places but I think the benefits out weight the issues but also..

I agree with your summation except I would add that the societies, which are in a better place are generally there at the cost of societies that are struggling. And the issues with mexico are not exempt from this as America has had a hand in pretty much all the Latin American countries! And again the point is not about America or England or Greece or persia or whatever.. It's just that I think as a species we need to be more aware of how we are affecting each other and the world around us.

I agree with you about history but we disagree that the future is limited by it!

Any idea that is followed blindly can be dangerous, but out of all ideologies, I find pantheism, which is very similar to rumi's sufi take on Islam and was Einstein's preferred way of looking at the nature of reality to be the most logical as well as helpful! Warning as this is going to turn into proper stoner talk if it wasn't already... but... Regardless of whether there is a real oneness between everything, if we believe it to be true and act as if that was the case, it would workout better for everyone!

The reason I say the competition way of looking at it is potentially flawed at least at this time in history is because there is no longer a real need for competition for resources for survival as we have the technology to make it possible but a profit motive stops it being reality! If as a species we actually looked at what makes us happy (happy to quote a bunch of research that you're probably already aware of!) and produces the most healthy societies, we would - in my opinion - realise that trying to make life better for everyone instead of competing with them actually makes life better for us! And I suppose this point applies to the immigration point you were making earlier as well!
 
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Farz

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2018
66
52
I have no idea what philosophy or science that entire claim is based on. If anything, history proves you wrong over and over again. You don't even need to go back a long time. Just tell me, who has gotten "fucked" because of the Department of Defense communication mandate that brought us the internet from the deep server rooms of the Pentagon? Or the Covid vaccine that will inevitably show up in the next few months from the competitive laboratories of the biotech sector? Who got fucked when NASA landed man on the moon?
I'm not saying the creation of the Internet or landing on the moon fucked others.. But the money to be able to create those things and do the research came from fucking others! I like that we're sticking with my technical term for it! :)

Also worthy to note most achievements didn't come from competition of market forces but investments made by government (I.e. Money gathered from a big population spent to serve that population - first step would be to just make the scope more international rather than bound by imaginary borders!)
 
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What is the point you are making? That story was exposed by the UK police itself and the person who did it was later punished according to the law.

To imply that was an example of institutional law breaking is fundamentally wrong. It was individual officers going against the code of practice.

Do you know how many judges in IR misuse their position by sleeping with women in order to free their husbands from jail? Such scandals are rife in IR.

What is also rife in IR, is Sepahi women called ""Parastoo", who are sent by Sepah to befriend dissidents and in some cases lure them back.
Shouting? Who is shouting? What are you talking about?

I never said the system in the West is perfect. Where there are humans there will be injustices. All states are guilty of miscarriage of justice to some degree. It's exactly those quantities that we need to evaluate. Where are checks and balances where the individual has recourse to fair treatment and advancement? Which system allows you better treatment in all sects of the society?

Would you rather be George Floyd's lawyer in the US or Navid Afkari's lawyer in IR?

Also, to say that the money to create those systems came from fucking others is cliched claptrap. Money doesn't buy you a working system. Mentality and rule of law does. If money could create a functioning system, IR would be top of the list in every department. They are last. Even the rich Arab states don't have any properly functioning infrastructure to envy. Injustice and corruption are rife.

A working system comes from implementing freedom, liberty and rights across society. The wealth comes from facilitating private enterprise. The advancement comes from allowing freedom of thought. These are the superior mechanisms that exist in the West which the third world largely lacks because it is littered with ideology and corrupt leaders, to put it simply.

As for the British empire, Every country in the commonwealth of nations is in a better place than it would be outside it. India is the largest democracy in the world thanks to the empire. Most Indians now recognise this, despite the massacres and the looting of their wealth. They don't shout "death to England", like we do somehow, blaming "the queen" for all their misfortune.

Again, mentality.
 
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Farz

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2018
66
52
I said shouting as you seem to write in a bigger font size to everyone else; it's as annoying as someone shouting for no reason.

Your last post contradicted me on a point and I twice asked you for further information on it and in the next post you just ignored that question! Not much point in a discussion if that's how it's going to be conducted.

You're already quoting yourself so I shall let you carry on conversing with yourself without disturbing you any further.
 
Oct 18, 2002
16,353
203
Folks a word of advice from somebody who has heavily involved himself with Iranian and American politics many years ago.

it is good to be informed of what's going on in the world to a reasonable degree.

if you get involved too emotionally it is gone start eating at you and it is going significantly lessen the quality of your life.

if you are looking for civic involvement, good for you. get off the internet forums and go teach kids some subject, volunteer as election worker, help the old who can't, get a hammer and punch in a few nails for habitat for humanity and ....

if you wane be involved in politics, go all in and work at least five hours a day for some kind of campaign.

sitting on your chair disucssing these things with people remotely will just make frustrated and furious.
 
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I said shouting as you seem to write in a bigger font size to everyone else; it's as annoying as someone shouting for no reason.

Your last post contradicted me on a point and I twice asked you for further information on it and in the next post you just ignored that question! Not much point in a discussion if that's how it's going to be conducted.

You're already quoting yourself so I shall let you carry on conversing with yourself without disturbing you any further.
I use bigger font because it is easier to read.
Online shouting used to be writing in capital letters. Have things changed?

I was responding to your cliche that the western system was built on fucking other countries. How on earth you manage to link the two only you know. There is no evidence for it.

Anyway, choose to ignore it.
 

Playboy

IPL Player
Oct 18, 2010
4,508
444
the huge boats are a sitting duck in a pond like the
persian gulf.trump might not understand it but his
military folks do.
iran sends him some postcards just to remind trump
not to try anything stupid for re-election.



 

siavash_8

Bench Warmer
Mar 26, 2006
3,017
3,377
حالا همون عکسایی که از ناو آمریکایی گرفتین و لوله کن و بکن تو کص خار مادر هر چی آخونده با نوچه هاشون