Trump pulls out

Bache Tehroon

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#44
i don't think this is an accident.
maybe trump is an iranian/russian mole in the wh.

https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...erica-keeps-accidentally-helping-iran/560024/

For decades, since the Iranian Revolution, the United States has engaged in a quasi-war with Tehran. Washington backed Saddam Hussein in the Iran-Iraq War, described Iran as being part of an “axis of evil” alongside Iraq and North Korea, launched the Stuxnet cyberattack on Iranian nuclear facilities in 2009, and provided weapons for Saudi Arabia to fight a proxy war against Iran in Yemen. Today, the United States and Iran still lack formal diplomatic relations. President Donald Trump described Iran as “the world’s leading state sponsor of terrorism,” with a “sinister vision of the future.” Meanwhile, Iranian propaganda pushes a narrative of resistance against the United States—the “great Satan”—as well as Israel.

It’s striking, then, that since 9/11, major U.S. foreign-policy gambits in the Middle East have consistently aided Iranian interests. America is not so much Iran’s frenemy as its fremesis: a supposedly mortal adversary that unintentionally gives critical support. By scrapping the Iran nuclear deal, Trump is following an established U.S. playbook of helping Tehran.
This is actually a very real possibility. One that I often find myself subscribing to. Chinaski provided some compelling reasons to believe in this theory as well. Still has some holes, but very viable still.
 

Bache Tehroon

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#45
Exactly! You would be both having this conversation in Tehran instead of online between Canada and the UK. You definitely have a point.
No not really. Iran was a total craphole long before USA ever set eyes on it. I can argue, even if there was no revolution in 1979, even Shah could not have prevented the inevitable turn of events against Iran. He had no ammo against a vastly uninformed, religious and unwilling and doubling population looking for government handouts. That's exactly what Khomeini promised them and they all begged for it. Had it not been Khomeini, it would've been someone else. Had it not been USA, it would've been another bully. Iran is a theater of plundering, not a theater of prospering. This has been the case for about 2 centuries (some say more, some say less, doesn't matter).
 

Bache Tehroon

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#46
IR is the biggest bully but naive people are stuck in the 1970s with their anti Imperialism BS.
I.R is a bully alright, but the bigger elephant in the room is the religion and subsequent laws/manifest it's based on. There is absolutely no reason why it should not be bullied back and actually defeated by the other bullies of the world. To wish otherwise would be very unrealistic and selfish. Quite inhumane too.
 
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Kian Pars

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#47
More sanctions will bring ordinary folks to their knees and unforseen consequences, I am against anarchy and chaos and war.
I'm all for peace and co existence, toleration.
i don't think people in iran benefited from lifting the sanctions in the last 2 years, only mulahs and mulah zadehs got their pocket filled up. People will suffer as long as we have this regime. Peace, co-existence and tolerance are words which IR regime is not familiar with.
 
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Feb 18, 2005
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#48
LOL. Now when the IR continues its fucked up path people like you will say it is because Trump pulled out that we are fucked up even though we were on our way down for 40 years.
Funny how you presume for yourself and brand people and label and pack them together according to your beliefs or taste of things or with your freindship gauge of how close they are to you or not ....!

Please go ahead and buy yourself a drink and send me the bill and give yourself a pat on the back !:love:
 
#49
This was entirely predictable and the regime knew it. I was in Iran in April and that's when the price of foreign currency rose. This wasn't without reason. It's because the regime got wind of what is coming with Trump planning to pull out of the deal and exported large amounts of dollars.
In the middle of all this, the poor people will pay the price.

To me though it was a good decision by Trump. The deal made no difference to the lives of Iranian people. Obama shipped billions to IR none of which was spent on the people. Teachers and factory workers were still unpaid, inflation rose. The deal was a farce and the only ones who benefited were the IR hierarchy.

IR made a complete fool of Obama and the EU. Anyone who things they actually complied with the IAEA is a fool. Trump wasn't.
 
Feb 18, 2005
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#50
i don't think people in iran benefited from lifting the sanctions in the last 2 years, only mulahs and mulah zadehs got their pocket filled up. People will suffer as long as we have this regime. Pease, co-existance and tolorance are words which IR regime is not familiar with.
That is true also .... we all know about the corruption there ,but don't forget the big bully's tactics in scaring off any potential investor or trader away also ...people have not seen much or any improvement for the combination of all these ..
 

Mahdi

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#51
No not really. Iran was a total craphole long before USA ever set eyes on it. I can argue, even if there was no revolution in 1979, even Shah could not have prevented the inevitable turn of events against Iran. He had no ammo against a vastly uninformed, religious and unwilling and doubling population looking for government handouts. That's exactly what Khomeini promised them and they all begged for it.
I forgot, people in Germany voted for Hitler for intellectual and spiritual reasons, for Trump for bringing back Americanism and for Brexit because they actually believe that Britain will kickstart a new intellectual empire and not because some moron promised them the NHS forever.

Had it not been Khomeini, it would've been someone else. Had it not been USA, it would've been another bully. Iran is a theater of plundering, not a theater of prospering. This has been the case for about 2 centuries (some say more, some say less, doesn't matter).
What's your point? Or have you become a Pessimist Historical Materialist all of a sudden?
 
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Mahdi

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#52
This was entirely predictable and the regime knew it. I was in Iran in April and that's when the price of foreign currency rose. This wasn't without reason. It's because the regime got wind of what is coming with Trump planning to pull out of the deal and exported large amounts of dollars.
In the middle of all this, the poor people will pay the price.

To me though it was a good decision by Trump. The deal made no difference to the lives of Iranian people. Obama shipped billions to IR none of which was spent on the people. Teachers and factory workers were still unpaid, inflation rose. The deal was a farce and the only ones who benefited were the IR hierarchy.

IR made a complete fool of Obama and the EU. Anyone who things they actually complied with the IAEA is a fool. Trump wasn't.
excellent! Trump and Bibi are the smart ones, everyone else is an idiot!
 

Mahdi

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#53
LOL. Now when the IR continues its fucked up path people like you will say it is because Trump pulled out that we are fucked up even though we were on our way down for 40 years.
Well, you can say that every time Iran was on the path to something better and progress over the past 200 years (Enghelabe Mashroote, Mossadegh, Shah in the 70ies, end of 90ies, early 2000s where there was a public forum of discussion etc.) some moron came along, usually from the outside, and supported the internal moronic forces and we went back to square one.

How Iran is going to benefit from Trump pulling out is questionable. On the other hand, it is just a repetition of history, when people believe that IR will fall in 2002, because Bush put Iran on the axis of evil and pressured IR and blabla and killed the "reform" movement and what not...and we were back to square 1 in the end and people waited and put their hopes on Mousavi and Rohani to get back to where they were in 2001. Ten years from now, Iran will be back to where we were last year and nothing will be changed.
 
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Bache Tehroon

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#54
How Iran is going to benefit from Trump pulling out is questionable
Mahdi this is where you need to rethink the entire thing. Iran is not and should not benefit from Trump pulling out. Why should Iran benefit from anything these days? Why exactly is Iran due a 'benefit'?

Ok we're all Iranian and wouldn't mind Iran benefiting in some way, but it would be illogical to expect it.

Trump pulling out is not a good thing. It won't result in I.R falling. It will make Iran poorer and more miserable for a good while. But why is this not acceptable given Iran's general culture, government, voting history, revolution, ideologies and actions?

If you think about it, Iran is actually not being bullied by anyone. For a volatile country with fairly shitty behavior, Iran has actually been quite successful at deciding its own fate and continuing its juvenile ways. No other country would've been allowed to behave like Iran. I can't find a single example.
 

Zob Ahan

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#56
Mahdi this is where you need to rethink the entire thing. Iran is not and should not benefit from Trump pulling out. Why should Iran benefit from anything these days? Why exactly is Iran due a 'benefit'?

Ok we're all Iranian and wouldn't mind Iran benefiting in some way, but it would be illogical to expect it.

Trump pulling out is not a good thing. It won't result in I.R falling. It will make Iran poorer and more miserable for a good while. But why is this not acceptable given Iran's general culture, government, voting history, revolution, ideologies and actions?

If you think about it, Iran is actually not being bullied by anyone. For a volatile country with fairly shitty behavior, Iran has actually been quite successful at deciding its own fate and continuing its juvenile ways. No other country would've been allowed to behave like Iran. I can't find a single example.
I disagree with not resulting in IR falling. Iran is hard to predict but I think if the economy tanks further the lower classes will revolt. If it happens on Trump's watch it won't end pretty for IR:
http://freebeacon.com/national-secu...me-change-iran/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
 

Bache Tehroon

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#57
I disagree with not resulting in IR falling. Iran is hard to predict but I think if the economy tanks further the lower classes will revolt. If it happens on Trump's watch it won't end pretty for IR:
http://freebeacon.com/national-secu...me-change-iran/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
I.R falling is merely a detail. It's already a very different regime than it was before. Its fall would be more symbolic than anything. Not sure there's any significant benefit to it other than some half-ass social freedoms that matter little in the grand scheme of things. Iranians don't really care about these things as they've shown in the past. They're not French or American.

Iran as a nation has always had a desire to be 'noticed'. Well, here they are. Noticed by the entire world as a very strange, self-defeating nation. Even you and I as Iranians couldn't figure it out. We had to get the fuck out.

The ruling elite in Iran keep asking for punishment and hostility. They haven't received even a fraction of what would be 'fair'. Trump pulling out is simply a slap on the wrist. I'm still waiting for the real blow. The real crash and burn. The real return to the median (in stock terms).
 

A8K

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#59
lower class revolt will be confronted. the lower class revolt you're talking about has to have a educated leaders etc.. they all eventually fall back on their religious believes and it's easy to repair and mend things up with promises etc when both sides have fundumental commonalities.

If any trouble, would be from the educated youth as they're going aimless, hopeless and hungry (hungry for a future and even more and more for piece of bread)



I disagree with not resulting in IR falling. Iran is hard to predict but I think if the economy tanks further the lower classes will revolt. If it happens on Trump's watch it won't end pretty for IR:
http://freebeacon.com/national-secu...me-change-iran/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
 

Zob Ahan

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Feb 4, 2005
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#60
lower class revolt will be confronted. the lower class revolt you're talking about has to have a educated leaders etc.. they all eventually fall back on their religious believes and it's easy to repair and mend things up with promises etc when both sides have fundumental commonalities.

If any trouble, would be from the educated youth as they're going aimless, hopeless and hungry (hungry for a future and even more and more for piece of bread)
Tunisians didn't have a leader either.