Trump WAS the president

Jan 26, 2006
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Someone claimed here that we see destruction only in black populated protests,...well

and many other claims About Not racist America and trump that could only come out of minds not Having lived in the US
You gotta live with them to know them...
This is the misinformation era - when extreme opinions are now considered "moderate".


Amazing how in 10 years someone goes from supporting Mousavi and even Rafsanjani (!) to confusing which out of Trump and Biden is the centrist.

P.S. Where does this stuff about leftists supporting Biden come from? All one can see is that Leftists hate Biden in the same way that leftists in the UK hate Starmer. AOC attacked him as soon as he won. Surreal how extreme people's positions have become.....
 
Jan 26, 2006
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I don't understand how any human, with a bit of logic and decency for others, can support Trump. Really don't.
Misinformation and losing relationship with humanity.

E.g. working only with data or money, not really interacting much with humans on a day-to-day level. Though processes become clouded and it's easier to become brainwashed into extremist thinking.

There is a webmaster on an iranian football site who is hardcore Trump supporter, and believes the Antifa did the riots yesterday, posting the same combination of disinformation that you see on twitter/facebook/telegram etc..., e.g. that this symbol of white supremacy, the Norse Valknut, is a symbol of Antifa:


The problem of disinformation is huge now. I don't think we know quite how much this is just the start of it.....
 

rahim

Bench Warmer
Oct 23, 2003
1,259
594
behbahan
The most stupid comment that I have heard in the last 4 years, and specially yesterday is that : this is not America!

On the contrary, very good representation of large portion of America: Wild backwarded hillbillies left behind in modernity , hating all that don’t resemble them and yet such a pussy to conspiracy theories and manipulators of their minds and most importantly against their own class interest

wow , I think I also described half of Iranian society too!
 

Sly

Football Legend
Oct 18, 2002
27,531
434
Going back to our previous discussions: NOW I do realize that if the U.S. change system to true democracy and let the majority of the people's votes count, even today, there WILL be a civil war! Hard to believe.
 

rahim

Bench Warmer
Oct 23, 2003
1,259
594
behbahan
In a way, civil war never ended in US. The losing side took a long retreat and exerted muscle any time and anywhere they could. It was Trumpism that gave open platform to the masses to come out , eliminating those obligatory fake content.
it is not just the economy, is not Just the political power of” masses” is the lost white privilege that they have back. Racist rhetoric of “ white nationalism “ has equivalent Power of religious brain wash in the 3rd world countries .
 
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rahim

Bench Warmer
Oct 23, 2003
1,259
594
behbahan
Misinformation and losing relationship with humanity.

E.g. working only with data or money, not really interacting much with humans on a day-to-day level. Though processes become clouded and it's easier to become brainwashed into extremist thinking.

There is a webmaster on an iranian football site who is hardcore Trump supporter, and believes the Antifa did the riots yesterday, posting the same combination of disinformation that you see on twitter/facebook/telegram etc..., e.g. that this symbol of white supremacy, the Norse Valknut, is a symbol of Antifa:


The problem of disinformation is huge now. I don't think we know quite how much this is just the start of it.....
It was very predictable that they will drag their favorite boogeymen, antifa, into this.
After all , white mobs are incapable of terrorizing, so we have been told!
Is a typical tactic by fascists to have a bogeymen. There are people in this site and Iran that insist British killed neda!
Even the pop culture has adopted this gobles tactic. There is a football club in Iran that is known for issuing harsh language “ bayaniye” blaming “ behind the scenes enemies “ every time they don’t win , while they have gotten all the unfair support and advantages from the regime.
Fake news and ability to turn it to a believable fact is the new norm.
 

rahim

Bench Warmer
Oct 23, 2003
1,259
594
behbahan
This better articulated what I mentioned earlier. Few years down the road Democratic Party may go through the same road. Had trump not won 2016, or sanders wasn’t cheated by DNC, this split could have been the faith of Democrats in foreseeable future:

اکنون که ترامپ بازنده ی انتخابات شده است ترامپیسم و جنبش ضد برگزیدگان (الیت) حاکم که او را به قدرت رساند و پیشتر در قالب "تی پارتی" رخ نموده بود به صورتی دیگر ادامه پیدا خواهد کرد. این جنبش عمدتا سفید پوست است با تمایلات نژادپرستانه و ملی گرایانه که سخت از سیاست های اقتصادی نئولیبرال و فرایند جهانی شدن ضربه خورده و از الیت حاکم ناراضی و به آن بی اعتماد است.

حزب جمهوریخواه به دنبال انتخابات و شکست ترامپ موضع کم و بیش محتاطانه یی در برابر ادعای تقلب انتخاباتی ترامپ داشته است. بسیاری از جمهوریخواهان این مساله را نپذیرفته و به ترامپ توصیه کردند که شکست را بپذیرد. موضع گیری محتاطانه ی جمهوریخواهان از آن روست که ترامپ در میان رای دهندگان جمهوریخواه بسیار محبوب است و رویارویی مستقیم و مخالفت با او به معنای به خطر افتادن آینده ی سیاسی جمهوریخواهان است. با شکست ترامپ اختلاف های درون حزبی میان جمهوریخواهان رو به رشد است. مهمتر آنکه حزب جمهوریخواه پس از تجربه دوره ی ترامپ و در سایه ی جنبش اجتماعی حامی او دیگر آن حزب محافظه کار پیش از سال ۲۰۱۶ نخواهد بود. ترامپیسم حزب جمهوریخواه را دچار دگرگونی اساسی کرده است. شکاف و دوقطبی اجتماعی که با ظهور ترامپ در جامعه ی امریکایی تشدید شده، چه بسا به انشقاق و انشعاب در حزب جمهوریخواه بیانجامد و در نتیجه از خلال آن حزبی ترامپیست رخ نماید. طی دهه های متمادی فعالیت سیاسی در ایالات متحده در قالب دو حزب حاکم تعریف شده است اما اکنون در جامعه ی آمریکا امکان تشکیل حزبی خارج از این دایره امکانی واقعی می یابد
 
شکاف و دوقطبی اجتماعی که با ظهور ترامپ در جامعه ی امریکایی تشدید شده
This part is just wrong. This all gained momentum in the first year of Obama's presidency. A lot of Trump voters were actually Obama voters. This is the part the democrats refuse to understand and accept. They still don't get it. It will cost them again and it will further divide the US. As I have said many times in this thread, the next Trump will not be a centrist. Trump will be regarded as a good president by most Americans in the future.
 

tajrish

IPL Player
Oct 18, 2002
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San Diego, California
No different than the antifa/blm terrorist mobs that torched city after city just a few months ago. They're not the majority but they're the most active. Historically, these groups would've been shunned and condemned by the powers at helm. These days they're listened to and encouraged by the media and significant position holders. Biden replacing Trump means little. It's extremism that is gaining momentum on both sides. Everyone can see it.

The next Trump will not be as centrist, and of course Biden is basically a nobody who's controlled by the crazies. The divide is getting wider.
The comparison with BLM is a classic strawman argument.
The top elected official of this country, namely the president, encouraged and enticed his mobs to stand by, to show force and to invalidate the legislative branch of this country. This man was sworn in to defend the constitution. Obviously (hopefully) we can agree that he lost the election, the courts ruled, citizens voted and he was therefore constitutionally obliged to leave the office. His unproven and unfounded allegations and conspiracy theories have been completely and utterly overruled by ALL the judges, most of which were appointed by himself. The "American carnage" president turned to be the most devastating force of carnage himself in this nations history.
 

tajrish

IPL Player
Oct 18, 2002
2,985
139
54
San Diego, California
This part is just wrong. This all gained momentum in the first year of Obama's presidency. A lot of Trump voters were actually Obama voters. This is the part the democrats refuse to understand and accept. They still don't get it. It will cost them again and it will further divide the US. As I have said many times in this thread, the next Trump will not be a centrist. Trump will be regarded as a good president by most Americans in the future.
A lot of Trump voters were not Obama voters. Of course, a few changed their votes. That happens every 4-8 years. People get tired of one party and vote for the other in hope of change, like anywhere else in the civilized world. But to say that "a lot" of Obama voters changed to Trump voters is just not factually correct.

Trump lost the popular election by over 3 million votes to Clinton. There were some marginal swings in bible belt states that won Trump the presidency. This time around, Trump lost by 8 million votes.

Also, in my opinion, Trump will never be regarded as anything but a disaster that he was. A lying, self-serving, egomaniac, unintelligent and completely unfit president who divided this nation like no other president post the civil war era. Future generations will be ashamed of the America that he represented to the world: a racist, anti-science, anti-environment and backward America, consumed by conspiracies, fake news and scandals.
 

Playboy

IPL Player
Oct 18, 2010
4,876
508
breaking:

mexico has just annouced after watching the wednesday events in the capitol they will pay for the trump wall.
canada says they want one too and pay for it :ROFLMAO:
 
Jan 26, 2006
149
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A lot of Trump voters were not Obama voters. Of course, a few changed their votes. That happens every 4-8 years.
It helps a narrative. This is peddled a lot by the right wing alt-media (podcasts, radio shows etc...) and people who listen lap it up.


Also, in my opinion, Trump will never be regarded as anything but a disaster that he was. A lying, self-serving, egomaniac, unintelligent and completely unfit president who divided this nation like no other president post the civil war era. Future generations will be ashamed of the America that he represented to the world: a racist, anti-science, anti-environment and backward America, consumed by conspiracies, fake news and scandals.
I think he will be seen as the figurehead of an era. I hope that this cycle isn't the beginning of a 30s Europe situation where extreme or genuinely unhinged opinions are increasingly seen as "centrist", but that this is just a brief period of hypernormalisation before things improve again.

Have you seen the documentary Hypernormalisation?
 
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rahim

Bench Warmer
Oct 23, 2003
1,259
594
behbahan
Trumpism is not byproduct of Obama era. In fact the mother of Trumpism, tea party went on work before Obama had a chance to step in the office.
The economic crisis of later years of bush, the widening gap between 1%ers and disfranchised peaked in 2007-2008, gave a ground for economic justice movements. While Democrats spent their energy in suppressing the flag bearers of the movement in their side, republicans allowed and embraced the growth this populist movement within themselves.
the right’s problem with Obama was his skin color foremost, before he had any chance to implement his plan, which was actually saving a capitalist system at the verge of collapse.
the right incorporated race and hate issues into their strategy of redirecting economical justice issues. The racial and ethnic hate was their driving engine.Birther movement was in place when Obama came to political prominence and a candidate and not after his presidency. The ground work was in place.
it is plausible that some Obama voters turned trump voters. Their agenda was ignored by DNC and a illusive populist movement, having stolen some messages from left and superficially presenting them as their own now looked attractive.
This is not unusual at all. History shows that right and populist movements have been able to steal left’s agenda, disarm them , increase their Own base by depopulating opposition’s base and then redirect the message for their own political/ economic goals. Review Europe of 30s, growth And power grab of fascist movements. Even in our own modern history, we saw a glimpse of that in Ahmadinejad’s first run or how Kennedy imposed “ white revolution” on shah , stealing some of Tudeh parties platform but redirecting it to practically eliminate British favored feudal base and build a pro us small dependent to US capitalist base.
The legitimate economic justice demands of hard working people Of US was now in hands and control of The group that widened the economic gaps, gave the most generous tax breaks to billionaires and corporations And was unable to make any significant change to the working class but put a smile on their face because their pay check showed 20$ less taken off on taxes ( which they would end up paying at the end of year any way).

so in away, yes some trump supporters could have been potentially Obama or even sanders voters. Many common messages on the surface. But Obama and sanders could not have and would not have the ability of rejuvenating “ white nationalism”.
 
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