This is getting serious...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...dia&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=socialmedia
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...dia&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=socialmedia
Wouldn't that be jolly?! Maybe after this Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny can come to Iran and sit down with Khamenei and Jannati to write the greatest human rights charter of all time! 
Dude, what "democracy movement" in Iran?! Are we even living in the same world?! These guys have come to New York, thinking that they're coming to negotiate from a position of power. The biggest mistake you can possibly make in any negotiation is overestimating your position, because you'll be cornered into situations where you have to make one concession after another. If you're not willing to make concessions (a position the IR has repeatedly made clear) you're going to go back home with your tail in between your legs. So, how is that going to ideologically sideline the hardliners?! That's exactly the position they're looking for to reassert their 35 year old slogans - that the US is the Great Satan, that they continue to be a bullying power, that they want to enforce their will on the region, that they don't have respect for Iranians, and that we have been right the whole time.
If as you say, they have nothing to offer anymore, don't you think this is a brilliant move designed to give them exactly that - something to offer? Isn't that what has kept them going all this time, an outside entity hell bent on destroying Iran and the Muslim world? You think they just decided to drop that notion over night and became a friendly bunch?! Exactly what scenario are you envisioning that's going to end up with Rohani going back home and sidelining the hardliners?! That the US is going to turn around and say, it's great that you guys are doing enrichment, conducting proxy wars all over the ME, and shouting death to the US and Israel every week - keep up the good work?!
Unless we're willing to put all logic aside and ignore all the facts, there's absolutely no way forward for Iran and Iranians out of this mess, than to make some serious concessions. There's no way forward without stopping enrichment. The West is not going to back down from that position, just because Rohani has a pretty smile. They have no reason to because they're coming from a position of power and every day that passes the IR is losing another bargaining chip. If Rohani was even allowed to make concessions, that would just play into the hands of the hardliners. So, how exactly do you see this playing out, that you can get from point A (Iranian and US officials meeting in New York) to Point B (democratic movement in Iran being empowered and hardliners getting sidelined) without a great leap of imagination?! Please connect the dots for me...
Dude, what "democracy movement" in Iran?! Are we even living in the same world?! These guys have come to New York, thinking that they're coming to negotiate from a position of power. The biggest mistake you can possibly make in any negotiation is overestimating your position, because you'll be cornered into situations where you have to make one concession after another. If you're not willing to make concessions (a position the IR has repeatedly made clear) you're going to go back home with your tail in between your legs. So, how is that going to ideologically sideline the hardliners?! That's exactly the position they're looking for to reassert their 35 year old slogans - that the US is the Great Satan, that they continue to be a bullying power, that they want to enforce their will on the region, that they don't have respect for Iranians, and that we have been right the whole time.
If as you say, they have nothing to offer anymore, don't you think this is a brilliant move designed to give them exactly that - something to offer? Isn't that what has kept them going all this time, an outside entity hell bent on destroying Iran and the Muslim world? You think they just decided to drop that notion over night and became a friendly bunch?! Exactly what scenario are you envisioning that's going to end up with Rohani going back home and sidelining the hardliners?! That the US is going to turn around and say, it's great that you guys are doing enrichment, conducting proxy wars all over the ME, and shouting death to the US and Israel every week - keep up the good work?!
Unless we're willing to put all logic aside and ignore all the facts, there's absolutely no way forward for Iran and Iranians out of this mess, than to make some serious concessions. There's no way forward without stopping enrichment. The West is not going to back down from that position, just because Rohani has a pretty smile. They have no reason to because they're coming from a position of power and every day that passes the IR is losing another bargaining chip. If Rohani was even allowed to make concessions, that would just play into the hands of the hardliners. So, how exactly do you see this playing out, that you can get from point A (Iranian and US officials meeting in New York) to Point B (democratic movement in Iran being empowered and hardliners getting sidelined) without a great leap of imagination?! Please connect the dots for me...
Neither Obama and his admin are AMERICAN, nor the Rohani clan represent anything remotely Iranian. They are both PLAYERS in a play which has only one winner - the northern European Royals - all of them especially Norway which is today the top exporter of refined oil !!! Iran can make all the nuclear facilities it wants but if it starts building just one OIL REFINERY it will be bombed to ruins......have you asked yourselves why? Because Norway likes the jump from $9,000 to $90,000 GPD ever since 1978!!! what negotiations?
Don't beleive politicians! Both sides are nothing but bunch of sharlatans. Both sides thinking popularity contest and reelection. All talks have already taken please behind closed doors. This is just a show to keep the masses preoccupied by the way of thinking "your politicians are working hard'. The mullahs are fed well in Iran and they are as fat as a pig. The US politicians are the same. Nothing drastic is going to come out of these UN BS. Ask yourself this: has anything changed over the past 30 years? The west needs the evil Iran in order to sell its offshelve dusty arms to the retard arabs. So far they have sold around a Trilion Dollars! That is the bottom line.
All regional regimes/dictators who were faraway from the religion of Islam have fallen: The shah, Sadam, Mobarak, soon Assad. Islamic regime will be here after you and I are gone to haven or hell. All the talk about the nuclear issue will become an stalemate. The have made Iran a formidable monster in the region. But they can fall as easily as the shah did if the west chooses so. The USA wants to implement its long term startegy by taking control of the oil rich region and thus secure it economical future. Khamenei is nothing but a marxist who was trained by the Russian system. He now plays the role of an islamic leader! When Shah fell with his 5th largest army of the world or Sadam with his 6th largest, the mullahs can fall as easy. But as long as this terrorist regime is useful to the west, they will stay in power.
Dear PBW - I agree with you - nothing will come out of this. Yes there will be some political prisoners freed, IR may even accept Isreal or gays existance.........but nothing major will evolve. Obama just said in the UN: USA has a HISTORY of medling in IRAN!!! Goes to prove my point above. This guy is making sure Iran and USA will never be friend - which is what the Euros and the Russians want. Nobody profits more than Europe/Russia from the animosities between Iran and USA.
Honestly, the best way a country can move forward is if there is openness in a society. Narrow and rigid interpretations of anything only foster more hopelessness and less change (see North Korea, Cuba, Saudi Arabi etc. as examples).
Maybe this will spur some more democratic elements within Iran. I hope it does. But knowing history, this is self-interested power structures (both in Iran and America) that will utilize everything in their power to increase and stabilize their power, and employ brand and package a Public Relations spin to sell to the public.
Maybe this will spur some more democratic elements within Iran. I hope it does. But knowing history, this is self-interested power structures (both in Iran and America) that will utilize everything in their power to increase and stabilize their power, and employ brand and package a Public Relations spin to sell to the public.
This Obama guy has bambuzeled all of us. He is working for the Wall Street. His Obama care is going to ruin all of us but put billions of new money in pockets of Wall Street corp/insurance companies while service for you and me is going to plung. Just ask anyone in Canada! He is a puppet just to give false hopes to blacks and others. So a speech here and a speech there is not going to float my boat!
PBW and Massi you're both right to some extent... The only thing that you need to realize is the US does not want to control the oil in the ME - at least not any more. They just want to control the flow of oil (and other hydrocarbons) out of the middle east and North Africa to keep the price of oil at a certain threshold. The best way to do that is through a controlled creation, escalation and de-escalation of conflicts in the region. The US is now a net exporter of oil by some accounts and within the next few years by all other accounts (also a net exporter of energy now).
They need oil and other hydrocarbons to be at a certain price to make this a profitable venture for that industry (with serious lobbying power), in lieu of their high extraction costs. It's also a way of keeping the Chinese, Indians and Turks in check since they are net importers. Canada and other western producers of oil are all in the same shoes. If oil drops to $70 for example, Canada's economy will go to shits - China's economy will prosper on the other hand. That's why you see the Chinese opposing action in Syria and specifically mentioning the price of oil.
And of course the Saudis and other Arab nations are going along for the ride. They have the cheapest extraction costs in the world. The higher the price of hydro carbons, the better for them. And what better way to do that than to take Libyan, Syrian or Iranian oil (i.e. all the oil being sold by bad guys) off the markets - in a controlled manner, just to keep the supplies in check with demand to maintain that threshold. Unfortunately, we have a stupid government who finally caught on to this scheme just a few months ago. That's why you see Zanganeh coming out and saying that he wants to increase oil production - only to remember that we can't even sell the oil that we're extracting! And that's why you see the Obama administration specifically bringing up the threat of force against Syria, despite the deal reached last week, as soon as oil starts heading south!
The Americans are not going to give up this perfect set up they have going. Unless the political benefit of a potential deal with Iran is much bigger to Obama and the Democrats than the benefit to their supporters in the energy industry, there's absolutely no reason for them to mess up a good thing. Sure, if Obama comes out of this with a deal under which Iran halts all enrichment, allows unconditional access for IAEA inspectors to ALL sites and dismantles Fordow and a couple of other sites, and a gradual lifting of sanctions subject to verification of compliance with the first few items, where he can look like a total hero, we can expect a deal. But I'd say that's about the only scenario under which a deal can happen - the IR begging on its knees, accepting total defeat and still being out of oil markets for the next 6 months to a year. Even if Rohani was authorized to accept that deal, I can't see it going down in Iran with the hardliners - that would be the end of IR much sooner than the alternative!
They need oil and other hydrocarbons to be at a certain price to make this a profitable venture for that industry (with serious lobbying power), in lieu of their high extraction costs. It's also a way of keeping the Chinese, Indians and Turks in check since they are net importers. Canada and other western producers of oil are all in the same shoes. If oil drops to $70 for example, Canada's economy will go to shits - China's economy will prosper on the other hand. That's why you see the Chinese opposing action in Syria and specifically mentioning the price of oil.
And of course the Saudis and other Arab nations are going along for the ride. They have the cheapest extraction costs in the world. The higher the price of hydro carbons, the better for them. And what better way to do that than to take Libyan, Syrian or Iranian oil (i.e. all the oil being sold by bad guys) off the markets - in a controlled manner, just to keep the supplies in check with demand to maintain that threshold. Unfortunately, we have a stupid government who finally caught on to this scheme just a few months ago. That's why you see Zanganeh coming out and saying that he wants to increase oil production - only to remember that we can't even sell the oil that we're extracting! And that's why you see the Obama administration specifically bringing up the threat of force against Syria, despite the deal reached last week, as soon as oil starts heading south!
The Americans are not going to give up this perfect set up they have going. Unless the political benefit of a potential deal with Iran is much bigger to Obama and the Democrats than the benefit to their supporters in the energy industry, there's absolutely no reason for them to mess up a good thing. Sure, if Obama comes out of this with a deal under which Iran halts all enrichment, allows unconditional access for IAEA inspectors to ALL sites and dismantles Fordow and a couple of other sites, and a gradual lifting of sanctions subject to verification of compliance with the first few items, where he can look like a total hero, we can expect a deal. But I'd say that's about the only scenario under which a deal can happen - the IR begging on its knees, accepting total defeat and still being out of oil markets for the next 6 months to a year. Even if Rohani was authorized to accept that deal, I can't see it going down in Iran with the hardliners - that would be the end of IR much sooner than the alternative!
Dude, I hear horror stories from my buddies in Canada. One dude had to wait 6 months to see his Doctor! Anyhow, the message is this, once the market crashed in 2008 and millions lost their home and their 401k (ehem, I lost 90% of the value of my 401k after 15years of hard work and NOONE NOONE went to jail in 2008!). Anyhow they put this Obama guy who was only in the congress for couple of years, in the white house so that blacks who lost their homes and jobs wont run into the street and start shooting people! So the gov bought some time with this dude. AND he got reelected with the super rich or 1% money. Obamacare just added another 30 million 'sicker' people into the pipeline and with the shortage of Doc and nurses in this country, your wait for doc could be even longer. Obamacare also was a election move. He just bought himeself most of the 30 million vote for the democrate for the next election. Just see the big picture rather than speaches.
You just know the Iranian regime is desperate to establish relations with US and to escape sanctions. For some reason some folks feel as if this is driven by reformist! No khosh khial Khamenei himself wants this to happen. Thats why Rohani is your president and Fars news is so excited over Obama's speech.
Yani vaghean inghadr sadehi ke fekr mikoni ke this is some monumental initiative by reformers? Rohani would not even sleep with his own wife without Agha's blessing.
Yani vaghean inghadr sadehi ke fekr mikoni ke this is some monumental initiative by reformers? Rohani would not even sleep with his own wife without Agha's blessing.