US Sponsored Taliban back in power in Afghanistan

[Hassan1980]

Behrou, as much as he talks nonesense but he is right on this issue, the mensheviks (means minority in russian) under Julius Martov recieved huge financial and militarily support from the capitalist countries back in the 10´s or even late 00´s.

Back then the US and other capitalist countries were very busy to undermine the soviets that were formed under Lenin, even trotsky was on their payroll (although he later sided with the bolsheviks, but he remained a western agent). Later on Stalin started the huge ''terror'' that killed any menshevik and fully reinforced the bolsheviks as the soviet unions leader.

 

[Chinaski]

LOL. You're so funny bro. you have a problem talking about US support of the Shah 45 years ago and we have to start right at the 36 year mark for your arguments to hold any water, but you're relating the dissolution of the Soviet Union to the split of Bolsheviks in the early 20th century?!

Migam dige in hamoon saghfiye ke azash sohbat mikonam va motasefaane vaghti capacity tamoom mishe dige tamoom shodeh, na to mitooni kaarish koni , na man. Saghfe fekre to dar hamin hadde, daste khodetam nist. Inke in do taa system az bikh o bon baa ham dar tezaad boodan va donyaae capital be soorate gharizei hamishe baa donyaae commonisti dar kalanjaar o keshmakesh boodeh, in vaase to fahmidanesh sakhte chon hanooz chortke be dast donbaale 4 taa raghame birabt migardi vagarna mesle khar too gel gir mikoni

In yek process boodeh ke be khaateresh na be mc donalds ehtiaaj hast, na be taarikhe zendegiye edison na be bani omayeh. Vali chon baafte fekrit saadast, tamaame in process ro vel mikoni, michasbi be chernobyl. Yeki ham ke taaze miaad taarikhe in process ro yaadet mide, na faghat yaad nemigiri balke 4 taa jafange dige ham be jafangiaate ghablit ezaafeh mikoni. kheyli baahaali to jeddi migam.

 

[Chinaski]

bebin masalan arash, bache koon hast, aare, vali laa aghal raft google kard taa goftam ye white army ham boodeh. Bolshevik haa tanhaa naboodan, az hamoon aval jahaane capital baa in systme commonisti dar jang bood. to ham miri google mikoni vali characteret nemizaare biaai begi aaghaa maa nemidoonestim, eshtebaah kardim

 

[Hassan1980]

Bi honar agha,

Although it kinda officially started in 1917 but this had its roots way earlier, from the versions i have read i think it originated from the late 1880's or 1890's.

here is a wikipedia article on this, make sure to read the events before 1917 and you will see amount of interference of US in russian affairs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_and_the_Russian_Revolution

The Russian Revolution was the key event that pitted the United States and the Soviet Union against each other for the next seventy years. It was the foundation for a face off between the two nations that would emerge as the world's superpowers.

 

[Bi-honar]

Behrou, as much as he talks nonesense but he is right on this issue, the mensheviks (means minority in russian) under Julius Martov recieved huge financial and militarily support from the capitalist countries back in the 10´s or even late 00´s.

Back then the US and other capitalist countries were very busy to undermine the soviets that were formed under Lenin, even trotsky was on their payroll (although he later sided with the bolsheviks, but he remained a western agent). Later on Stalin started the huge ''terror'' that killed any menshevik and fully reinforced the bolsheviks as the soviet unions leader.

Dude, I don't have any issues tracing the roots of anything back as far as you want to trace it back. My problem is that we can only do it when China wants it to work with his argument and heaven forbid if you trace it for an extra day when it doesn't go with his argument! It's the same with him with Wiki. As long as it supports his argument he loves it and will quote it for you, but heaven forbid if it doesn't work with his argument, even if it's further down in the same article he posted!

And the battle between communism and capitalism was not a one way thing the way you're trying to make it look - in fact nothing in international politics ever is. All countries work to advance their influence in others (overtly via international relations and covertly via various other means), particularly when it's such a fierce rivalry. But again, China looks at these situations always from one angle and one angle only, depending on who he likes and who he doesn't like.

All that aside, not even an idiot would claim that the dissolution of something started before its formation or the fall of something started before it's rise!!! LOL

 

[Chinaski]

And the battle between communism and capitalism was not a one way thing the way you're trying to make it look - in fact nothing in international politics ever is. All countries work to advance their influence in the other, particularly when it's such a fierce rivalry. But again, China looks at these situations always from one angle and one angle only.

Once again you drag the whole thing into haashiyeh. The battle of communism and capitalism was not a one way thing! khob haalaa baa in harf maa baayad chikaar konim? We are talking about absolutely different issues though. You talk about some ridiculous stuff involving charnobyl as a factor that downed the soviets and i am laughing loud because as soon as you came up with that, i knew that we have another issue here that you have no clue about. This battle between absolute capitalists and those who wanted to share the capital on a more fair basis, is an old one and thus it was a long process that downed the soviets eventually and not that fucked up defect nuclear reactor chernobyl. The whites in russia, have been undermining, infiltrating and at times openly fighting the soviets up until its very last days. Alot of european and american money and weapons went to those anti-bolsheviki "whites", there has been a whole lot of effort to get them down, there have been serious attemts to infiltrate and channelize the communist party from within. This actually should show you another thing and its that the capitalistic world has an history to fuck up and destablize other systems from within by providing money, logistics, weapon, political and economical support to disintegrative elements. Right now the balance is not there. If the soviets were around, the americans would not even in their dreams think about invading iraq or fucking up syria or bombing libya. If there was one thing that was really usefull about the soviets, was the fact that they provided a certain balance that kept the other side in check and made them think twice before they invade other countries right and left. Since that balance is not existent any longer, the only power left, is reshaping, fucking, destroying and building whole regions at will without having to think about the consequences. Our region is suffering from that dysbalance.

 

[Flint]

The Soviet Union never really "fell" my friend and if it did the it was the Cehrnobyl disaster that put the final nail in its coffin. That catastrophic event became the catalyst for Gorbachev to push through his Glasnost (transparency) policy, leading to major reforms within the Soviet Union and paving the way for a steady and natural collapse of the old system.

I thought I had heard everything but Chernobyl? Earlier we heard that it was really Islam that brought down communism. I suppose people grasp at any straw to deny Reagan credit. I assure you the Berlin wall didn't come down because somebody pushed it over.

 

[Chinaski]

Haalaa shomaa khodeto naaraahat nakon. Shomaa crediteto be harki mikhaay bede. Doost daari bede be Reagan, doost nadaari, bede be yeki dige

 

[Flint]

Duly noted. BTW, some of the worlds finest shotguns are made in Saint-Etienne.

 

[Motori]

And I thought I had heard it all. So Islam defeated the Soviet Union. Is that it? Nowhere in the history of the cold war anyone attributes the fall of communism to Afghanistan. No one. There was not one single cause for their downfall but Reagan's military build up and what everyone at the time ridiculed as "star wars" played a significant role. True, Soviets were bloodied in Afghanistan and they left. It was over. That alone could not have caused the downfall of their entire system. The Islamists of today who are 1000 times stronger and more organized than what they were in the 80s can't even take over Dubai and Kuwait let alone topple a superpower.

I didn't say that, using Islamists against communism was one of the reasons. Also what ever US did against USSR in Afghanestann all happened during Reagan presidency, thus the credit many people usher toward Reagan.

SDI (Strategic Defense Initiative) or as you say Star Wars never left the paper which was written on, it was not an offensive proposal, it was defensive on its nature. USSR announced that it is going to mount MRBM missiles in Warsaw Pact countries and Reagan responded that if you guys do that we will put ABM batteries up in the Geostationary orbit. USSR backed down and SDI never left the paper, had nothing to do with dissolution of Soviets.

 

[Flint]

SDI (Strategic Defense Initiative) or as you say Star Wars never left the paper which was written on,

Doesn't matter. The Russians must have believed that Americans could do it. I don't want to pin the fall of communism on just one thing. What is not debatable is the total posture Reagan brought to the table. The posture that said hey you commies, I am not going to be diplomatic about it, you are no ordinary member of the UN. You are an evil empire. F*&^ detente, we are going to settle our differences the old fashioned way. We are going to DEFEAT you. Then he went back to work, built a 600 ship Navy( it is 200 today, by the way), confronted them by proxy wars everywhere he could (Afghanistan, El Salvador, Nicaragua), Pershing missile in Europe, all the while the Euro lefties were marching in the streets asking for a nuclear "freeze". Reagan minced no words. His speech in front of the Berlin Wall is a classic. I strongly recommend it to those here who are too young to remember it. No politician today would dare talk like for the fear of being accused of appearing "undiplomatic".

 

[Bi-honar]

Once again you drag the whole thing into haashiyeh. The battle of communism and capitalism was not a one way thing! khob haalaa baa in harf maa baayad chikaar konim? We are talking about absolutely different issues though. You talk about some ridiculous stuff involving charnobyl as a factor that downed the soviets and i am laughing loud because as soon as you came up with that, i knew that we have another issue here that you have no clue about. This battle between absolute capitalists and those who wanted to share the capital on a more fair basis, is an old one and thus it was a long process that downed the soviets eventually and not that fucked up defect nuclear reactor chernobyl. The whites in russia, have been undermining, infiltrating and at times openly fighting the soviets up until its very last days. Alot of european and american money and weapons went to those anti-bolsheviki "whites", there has been a whole lot of effort to get them down, there have been serious attemts to infiltrate and channelize the communist party from within. This actually should show you another thing and its that the capitalistic world has an history to fuck up and destablize other systems from within by providing money, logistics, weapon, political and economical support to disintegrative elements. Right now the balance is not there. If the soviets were around, the americans would not even in their dreams think about invading iraq or fucking up syria or bombing libya. If there was one thing that was really usefull about the soviets, was the fact that they provided a certain balance that kept the other side in check and made them think twice before they invade other countries right and left. Since that balance is not existent any longer, the only power left, is reshaping, fucking, destroying and building whole regions at will without having to think about the consequences. Our region is suffering from that dysbalance.

LOL @ haashieh. Dude, we're talking about the dissolution of the Soviet Union, you start talking about a period before the USSR was even formed! We talk about a certain leader being secular, you start talking about how they helped Israel! Then we talk about the history or sociopolitical effects of Islamist in a discussion about Islamism and you call it haashieh! Man keh goh gijeh shodam!