Whats your view on EXECUTION?

[IranZamin]

You over simplify the situation. One law exists to protect children from being coerced. A maturity line needs to be drawn or the law becomes completely ineffective. Its a matter of necessity. The death penalty being imposed on the rape of a 12 year old, but not the rape of a 13 year old, does NOTHING.

Again, you're approaching this from the POV of deterrence only, whereas I believe in retribution as well. We just have a fundamental philosophical difference.

Also what if the person thought she was 18. You are going to kill someone based on strict liability? Come on...

I should be clear. By rape, I don't mean statutory rape where there the minors 'think' they are consenting, I'm talking about violent sexual assault. And honestly I couldn't give a crap if some rapist animal is dumb enough to mistake a 12 year old for an 18 year old.

That study is horseshit.

Oh I see. Thanks for sorting it out.

I think the best way to characterize your position is to say there is credible evidence to suggest the death penalty doesn't work. To declare that it doesn't as an absolute fact is a bit misleading.

Having said that, we've both made our cases and I think it's best to agree to disagree. As I said before, this comes down to a basic difference in worldviews.

 

[Farbod (ADC)]

Again, you're approaching this from the POV of deterrence only, whereas I believe in retribution as well. We just have a fundamental philosophical difference.

You are letting your emotions get involved. Why should retribution play a role in the criminal justice system?

I should be clear. By rape, I don't mean statutory rape where there the minors 'think' they are consenting, I'm talking about violent sexual assault. And honestly I couldn't give a crap if some rapist animal is dumb enough to mistake a 12 year old for an 18 year old.

Um. Go back and read what you said. You were talking about being a stud and being a criminal. No one is considered a stud for raping a girl, no matter what her age. You might not give a crap, but it is an important aspect of the law. Whether knowledge is involved or strict liability is involved is very important. Lets say you are 19 years old, and you are at a college party. You get drunk and sleep with a girl you met there, she happens to be much younger and the next morning said you raped her. You could conceivably get the death penalty under your analysis.

Oh I see. Thanks for sorting it out.

I think the best way to characterize your position is to say there is credible evidence to suggest the death penalty doesn't work. To declare that it doesn't as an absolute fact is a bit misleading.

Having said that, we've both made our cases and I think it's best to agree to disagree. As I said before, this comes down to a basic difference in worldviews.

Did you even read the article I posted?? They actually specifically show the complete worthlessness of the article you posted. The statistics in that article are beyond flawed and are actually purposefully skewed to justify their conclusion.

 

[IranZamin]

You are letting your emotions get involved. Why should retribution play a role in the criminal justice system?

I don't think it's emotional at all. I see retribution as nothing more than justice, especially in the case of heinous crimes.

Um. Go back and read what you said. You were talking about being a stud and being a criminal. No one is considered a stud for raping a girl, no matter what her age.

Now you're just being silly. It was pretty clear I was being facetious by using that term. I wasn't suggesting there is some formal definition of studliness. Give me a break.

Lets say you are 19 years old, and you are at a college party. You get drunk and sleep with a girl you met there, she happens to be much younger and the next morning said you raped her. You could conceivably get the death penalty under your analysis.

I really have a hard time believing that even a drunk couldn't tell the difference between a 12 year old and an 18 year old!

And there are such things as trials. I'm not saying one should be automatically executed if accused of rape by a child.

Did you even read the article I posted?? They actually specifically show the complete worthlessness of the article you posted. The statistics in that article are beyond flawed and are actually purposefully skewed to justify their conclusion.

This is not about one research article. There is a plethora of evidence on both sides offering pretty compelling arguments. Neither side has completely won me over, that's why I hesitate to make absolute declarations one way or the other. And even then, deterrence to me is only one component of justice; I repeat that I do believe in retribution.

Having said all that, I think we're just going in circles here. I've enjoyed the debate, but if your aim is to 'convert' me I'm not interested. Take care for now.

 

[Farbod (ADC)]

I don't think it's emotional at all. I see retribution as nothing more than justice, especially in the case of heinous crimes.

Now you're just being silly. It was pretty clear I was being facetious by using that term. I wasn't suggesting there is some formal definition of studliness. Give me a break.

I really have a hard time believing that even a drunk couldn't tell the difference between a 12 year old and an 18 year old!

And there are such things as trials. I'm not saying one should be automatically executed if accused of rape by a child.

This is not about one research article. There is a plethora of evidence on both sides offering pretty compelling arguments. Neither side has completely won me over, that's why I hesitate to make absolute declarations one way or the other. And even then, deterrence to me is only one component of justice; I repeat that I do believe in retribution.

Having said all that, I think we're just going in circles here. I've enjoyed the debate, but if your aim is to 'convert' me I'm not interested. Take care for now.

It was your hypo, not mine. Youd be amazed what some 12 year olds look like these days lol.

Ive been doing criminal law for almost 5 years now. Ive seen the way certain laws work. Trust me when I say retribution is not justice.