When the US is no longer the world leader

Jun 7, 2004
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0
#1
The recent European crisis is glimpses of what the world will be like when the US is no longer the world leader. In general the world is worse off. And some places that have been chief beneficiaries of the US leadership, in particular Europe, will be much, much worse off.

Up until now, every time there was a real crisis somewhere it was the US that stepped in and saved the day. For example in recent years when Asia had its crisis in 1998, it was the US that saved them. When Russia went bankrupt it was the US that bailed them out. Both these cost the US hundreds upon hundreds of billions of dollars. And the US did not even ask anything in return. It really is astonishing. The US has been the only, absolutely only, superpower in modern history that has been generous enough to make such sacrifices. In fact the only exception in all of world history is possibly Iran under Cyrus the Great.

US' position has weakened greatly in just 10 years due to structural economic problems that have not been dealt with, ill advised wars by Bush, and a truly small clueless president in Obama. Now Europe is left on its own, and you will witness just what lack of leadership really means. The only reason Europe has had peace and prosperity for 66 years is that the US has had it covered. Take US out, and you will see Europe fall into chaos once again. Just look at how pathetically they have handled the recent economic crisis. Look at their handling of Libya. Are you joking me!?

In the 2008 financial crisis and now, China could for example step in and help. Do you think they will? Absolutely not. I think they are more interested to have contracts with the likes of the Islamic Republic, oil in exchange for Chinese goods!

It is true that the US has also had much negative role to play, but I am certain that most of the people all around the world will be crying for good old days when the US led the world. You don't know what you've got until it is gone.
 

Mahdi

Elite Member
Jan 1, 1970
6,999
497
Mjunik
#2
historically US was by far the best superpower in history, no doubt about it. They have their fair share of fuckups in latin america and obviously Iran and Hiroshima/nagasaki, but not compareable to anyone else.
 
Aug 27, 2005
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Band e 209
#3
historically US was by far the best superpower in history, no doubt about it. They have their fair share of fuckups in latin america and obviously Iran and Hiroshima/nagasaki, but not compareable to anyone else.
Mahdi jAn,
I don't know if there was a better option (wrt to lesser loss of human lives and property) than what took place in Hiroshima/Nagasaki though. Not a rhetorical statement, I really don't know.
 

masoudA

Legionnaire
Oct 16, 2008
6,199
22
#4
Excellent post FP - but don't underestimate America.....
America is an attitude a "way of life" - not just a country. The best thing America has going is the “Ability to Adjust” – unlike just about everywhere in the world, Americans are not married to customs and ideologies. With the help of the rest of the world which we connected via the internet we will win this one too.
 

masoudA

Legionnaire
Oct 16, 2008
6,199
22
#6
attacking what scares you - eye?
A constitution is the core foundation of every society - especially one like the Americans have. I assure you it is neither custom nor idealogy.
BTW - How did you like the Court ruling on Obama's medicare being un-constitutional last week? lol
You see the constitution says: The government can not endorse or make the population to buy any product. If you could understand that - then you would not think of the Tea Party as a minority or a cult. ....and you would not be so scared of it!!!
 

Mahdi

Elite Member
Jan 1, 1970
6,999
497
Mjunik
#7
Mahdi jAn,
I don't know if there was a better option (wrt to lesser loss of human lives and property) than what took place in Hiroshima/Nagasaki though. Not a rhetorical statement, I really don't know.
well, as said, to me it wasn't necessary. The war was basically over, Japan was isolated and would have needed to fight all alone and they would have capitulated and lost one way or other. But it happened and as said, that is one of their 5 major fuckups in history and it's nothing compared to what Brits, French and others did.
 

The_Referee

National Team Player
Mar 26, 2005
5,534
0
Jabolqa Opposite Jabolsa
#8
The recent European crisis is glimpses of what the world will be like when the US is no longer the world leader. In general the world is worse off. And some places that have been chief beneficiaries of the US leadership, in particular Europe, will be much, much worse off.

Up until now, every time there was a real crisis somewhere it was the US that stepped in and saved the day. For example in recent years when Asia had its crisis in 1998, it was the US that saved them. When Russia went bankrupt it was the US that bailed them out. Both these cost the US hundreds upon hundreds of billions of dollars. And the US did not even ask anything in return. It really is astonishing. The US has been the only, absolutely only, superpower in modern history that has been generous enough to make such sacrifices. In fact the only exception in all of world history is possibly Iran under Cyrus the Great.

?????????
 
Feb 22, 2005
6,884
9
#9
Masoud, what is about the Tea party that is so appealing to you? If they take over the congress and presidency, what are the benefits that you see?

attacking what scares you - eye?
A constitution is the core foundation of every society - especially one like the Americans have. I assure you it is neither custom nor idealogy.
BTW - How did you like the Court ruling on Obama's medicare being un-constitutional last week? lol
You see the constitution says: The government can not endorse or make the population to buy any product. If you could understand that - then you would not think of the Tea Party as a minority or a cult. ....and you would not be so scared of it!!!
 

Chinaski

Elite Member
Jun 14, 2005
12,269
352
#11
Nonsense. absolute nonsense. As if this world necessariy needs atleast one major super power to dominate everything. I am not gonna get down to a level to try to compare a real super power with some imaginary superpower like the chinese and start speculating based on ifs and whens. Fact is this so called great super power has fucked up alot of things on this world and not only 5 times. The way some people talk here its a bit like Nitzsche and Darwin. Like hey there must be a dominating strong force to keep the rest in check, to enforce law and order. The stronger has a bigger right to live than the rest, and when they fuck up like in Japan where people are still suffering from side affects of those A-Bombs, so then be it. It had to be done, it was necessary. This kind of state of mind is dangerous and in alot of ways racistic, fashistic and elitist. China has never been a world power so why bother comparing them to US? What does US to do with cyrus and his kind of expansionism? What do we exactly know about those times and cyrus real intentions and motivations? Half of this worlds major dictators have been or still are supported by the US, as a direct result, People of those countries have been and are still suffering from those puppet dictators. Az ghadim goftan: Aavaaze dohol shenidan az door khosh ast. Neshestin too emrikaa, vazetoon khoobe, cnn o fox tamooshaa mikonin bah bah o chah chah mikonin fekr mikonin emrikaatoon daare be donyaa khedmat mikone. Chenin nist. Aslan in vaagheyat ke shomaa doostaan daarid yek zendegiye raahat o bi daghdaghe mikonid be in dalile ke emrikaatoon too donyaa daare harfe zoor mizane, be zoor na faghat haghe khodesho migire, balke haghe digaroon ro ham mikhore. Ye 4rome (25%) energiye donyaa ro yek keshvar daare masraf mikone be tokhmesham nist baghiye donyaa kamboode energy daare.

'Bebinid doostaan, man hich moshkeli nadaaram vaghti miaaid migid emrikaa ro doost daarid be in dalil ke behetoon in mogheyato daade ke ye zendegiye khoob o raahat daashte baashid. Matlab moghei naaform mishe vaghti shoroo mikonid dalil haaye bi paaye o bikhod biaarid ke kessaafat kaari haaye keshvaretoon (us) ro tojih konid o ghashang jelveh bedid. Mardoone begid: aaghaa joon zooremoon bishtare, mikonim, nooshe joonemoon oonvaght man kheyli bishtar ghabooletoon daaram. Faghat age in o ghabool mikonim, oonvaght baayad jaakeshaai eyne IR ro ham ghabool konim chon oonaa ham dar haddo hodoode khodeshoon too iran zooreshoon bishtare, mikonan, mikhoran mibaran o migan nooshe joonemoon!
 

ME

Elite Member
Nov 2, 2002
5,904
435
#12
unlike just about everywhere in the world, Americans are not married to customs and ideologies.
Among the white, 42 million Americans vote for what the presbyterian church wants. Hispanics vote for whoever is not going to shoot their brother over the Mexico-texas wall. Jews and blacks vote in the frame of their ethnic background. For the rest, the custo and ideology is survival.
 

masoudA

Legionnaire
Oct 16, 2008
6,199
22
#13
Masoud, what is about the Tea party that is so appealing to you? If they take over the congress and presidency, what are the benefits that you see?
Lordi - I don't know if you are being sarcastic....but in case you are not I must say I am so glad we are finally at the level of seriousd debates about the Tea Party - unlike the last months which due to a large scale liberal media propaganda Tea Party was turned to a "Disaster" which had to be rejected on sight!!! lol I was browing the TV channels today (Sunday) - CBS, ABC, NBC, CNN were all running anti Rick Perry propaganda shows......lol - do you think that is a coincidence.....or do we need a reform in our so called news media? If you think the leter...then welcome to the Tea Party!! I have a ton more to say.....and will later on. ME


Behruz and ME
Can you name ONE or TWO Countries in which people are more liberal minded to their "Customs & Idealogies" than USA?
 

Behrooz_C

Elite Member
Dec 10, 2005
16,650
1,566
A small island west of Africa
#14
Masoud jan, off the top of my head I'd say Canada.

But you talk about America and customs as though it is comparable to any other set of customs in the western world. I hate to say this, but as custom and heritage goes, Americans don't have any compared to anywhere else in Europe.

So even if it were true, being non-ideological may come by default, not that I believe they are as I said above.
 
Feb 22, 2005
6,884
9
#15
Masoud, by far, the majority of the US media is conservative and not liberal. Rick Perry has been problematic as he has been given favorite contracts to the people who put money into his campaign. Is that against the tea party ethics?

What you explained still does not answer why you like the tea party and why you think their demands will help the lives of the tea party? For example, if it is small government, how do you think the small government will help the lives of the tea party most of which looks like are blue color and some unemployed.

Lordi - I don't know if you are being sarcastic....but in case you are not I must say I am so glad we are finally at the level of seriousd debates about the Tea Party - unlike the last months which due to a large scale liberal media propaganda Tea Party was turned to a "Disaster" which had to be rejected on sight!!! lol I was browing the TV channels today (Sunday) - CBS, ABC, NBC, CNN were all running anti Rick Perry propaganda shows......lol - do you think that is a coincidence.....or do we need a reform in our so called news media? If you think the leter...then welcome to the Tea Party!! I have a ton more to say.....and will later on. ME


Behruz and ME
Can you name ONE or TWO Countries in which people are more liberal minded to their "Customs & Idealogies" than USA?
 

ME

Elite Member
Nov 2, 2002
5,904
435
#16
Lordi - I don't know if you are being sarcastic....but in case you are not I must say I am so glad we are finally at the level of seriousd debates about the Tea Party - unlike the last months which due to a large scale liberal media propaganda Tea Party was turned to a "Disaster" which had to be rejected on sight!!! lol I was browing the TV channels today (Sunday) - CBS, ABC, NBC, CNN were all running anti Rick Perry propaganda shows......lol - do you think that is a coincidence.....or do we need a reform in our so called news media? If you think the leter...then welcome to the Tea Party!! I have a ton more to say.....and will later on. ME


Behruz and ME
Can you name ONE or TWO Countries in which people are more liberal minded to their "Customs & Idealogies" than USA?
I am not able to make a comparison because of my lack of experience of living in other countries, I might say though Scandinavians and Danes but I am open to be wrong. Nonetheless, I can tell that in an absolute assessment, US is actually a deeply religous nation. There are 400,000 churches in this country and except in a few major urban areas of the north, they are extremely popular and powerful, and actively invloved in the local, state, and national politics.
 

Mahdi

Elite Member
Jan 1, 1970
6,999
497
Mjunik
#17
There are 400,000 churches in this country and except in a few major urban areas of the north, they are extremely popular and powerful, and actively invloved in the local, state, and national politics.
thanks to Reagan who gave the US in the 80ies nothing but khorafat and crack cocaine
 
Oct 20, 2003
9,345
1
#18
thanks to Reagan who gave the US in the 80ies nothing but khorafat and crack cocaine
LOOL, where that came from Agha Mehdi? I do not think Reagan was particularily religious He was nowhere near President George W Bush in religiosity. Although it is believed Nancy strongly believed in raml o ostorlAb.

Disclaimer: I am no Republican, have no association with the Tea Party and do not share any of masoudA opinion about the aforementioned.
 

Mahdi

Elite Member
Jan 1, 1970
6,999
497
Mjunik
#19
LOOL, where that came from Agha Mehdi? I do not think Reagan was particularily religious He was nowhere near President George W Bush in religiosity. Although it is believed Nancy strongly believed in raml o ostorlAb.

Disclaimer: I am no Republican, have no association with the Tea Party and do not share any of masoudA opinion about the aforementioned.
Whenever you have time, try to read "Sleepwalking through History" from Haynes Johnson. Reagan opened the door to the likes of Falwell to get more and more political influence and also his liberation of TV laws opened the door to the whole TV evangelical stuff on TV. He might not have been too religious himself but he knew how to use it.
 
Oct 20, 2003
9,345
1
#20
Whenever you have time, try to read "Sleepwalking through History" from Haynes Johnson. Reagan opened the door to the likes of Falwell to get more and more political influence and also his liberation of TV laws opened the door to the whole TV evangelical stuff on TV. He might not have been too religious himself but he knew how to use it.
I do not dispute that, he benefited from the moral majority group and the likes, but I disagree that he was instrumental in spreading khorafat if by that you mean religiosity. It did not start with Reagan, the Nixon administration also utilized the religious right's vote and influence to win the election.