Why the world community has been quite in regard to Mousavi and Karubi?

magic

Ball Boy
Jul 9, 2006
449
0
#1
I was wondering what do think? It doesn't matter if you like them or not, but these two were in news for a while and now they are in house arrest. There must be some hidden agenda that the world community has been quite. What is that hidden agenda? And if you think there no hidden agenda, please elaborate.
 

Zob Ahan

Elite Member
Feb 4, 2005
17,476
2,231
#2
The political activists that care are in jail in Iran themselves. The ones overseas are jealous of the fact that MHM/Karubi were able to mobilize a great number of people where they couldn't in 34 years. People in Iran that aren't jailed are concerned about making ends meet and worried about putting food on their table. Thats it so when Iranians are quiet why should the world community give a $hit?
 
Jun 7, 2004
3,196
0
#3
The political activists that care are in jail in Iran themselves. The ones overseas are jealous of the fact that MHM/Karubi were able to mobilize a great number of people where they couldn't in 34 years. People in Iran that aren't jailed are concerned about making ends meet and worried about putting food on their table. Thats it so when Iranians are quiet why should the world community give a $hit?
Yes, but that is not the whole story. The rest of the story is that the Obama administration has been made it crystal clear that they simply want to make a deal with the current characters and will throw all Iranians, let alone Mousavi and Karoubi under the bus to that end in a heartbeat.
 
May 12, 2007
8,093
11
#4
ZA&FB combined with that no one is able to lead the people once these two are in jail. Maybe also because no one really knows what will happen once and If IRI is overthrown. The US plan for IRAN is not what we think it is.
 
Jun 9, 2004
13,753
1
Canada
#6
Who gives a shit about Mousavi and Karroubi? They were just a couple of pawns in IR's chess game against the people. They helped the regime flush out, arrest or kill most of the opposition 4 years ago and told the people to leave the streets and go back home and shout Allah-o-Akbar from their rooftops while the two of them fixed the system from within!!!. Other than getting people off the street in those critical early days and helping the regime identify and arrest the real opposition figures, and solidifying Khaenei's position, they did nothing that would be viewed as positive by either people inside Iran or political circles in other countries. Just a couple of old and stupid guys with zero capabilities and credibility. Why should they receive more media coverage than the other 1/2 billion old and stupid guys with zero capabilities and credibility in the world?!!! ;)
 

maziar95

Elite Member
Oct 20, 2002
2,285
63
39
Baltimore, MD
#7
And how do you know that? They were never a threat to the regime and for all we know they are living a very comfortable life under "house arrest" in some garden villa.
How are they living a comfortable life? Not being able to see their children or family members , not getting the proper medical attention , not being able to interact with other people and the outside world is not exactly comfortable . And how do they know they live in a “villa”? I thought Karoubi & Mousavi were moved a secret location and no longer live at their homes and were moved to a secret locations . I actually hate the fact that the media keeps saying they are “under house arrest” because their situation is no different than someone in prison if not worse. The IRI wants us to keep using the term “house arrest” because it makes their situation look not as bad .
No matter how much some people hate these 2 opposition figure it’s a fact that they did something no opposition figure inside and outside of Iran did since the revolution & now they are dearly paying the price while the so called “opposition “ figures in the West and are living a comfortable life without having to sacrifice anything .
 
Jun 9, 2004
13,753
1
Canada
#8
Maziar jaan, I respectfully dispute that "fact" and I'm not sure if I posted the detailed chronological events of those early days on ISP, but the crowds were mobilized and on the streets in large numbers with clashes taking place, hours before Mousavi even released a statement.

The real opposition figures were not and are not outside Iran - they were inside Iran. This had been planned long before the elections and Sepah was issuing statements more than a month before the election predicting exactly what happened and promising a reponse. At that point, Mousavi and Karroubi had said nothing and were working within the boundaries of the regime, as they did throughout the entire fiasco.

It wasn't the people who rallied behind these two characters, it was these two who rallied behind the people and tried to take charge of the situation. No opposition figure either inside or outside of Iran or in any other country in the last two decades did more damage to a genuine mass movement by the people than these two clowns.
 

maziar95

Elite Member
Oct 20, 2002
2,285
63
39
Baltimore, MD
#11
Maziar jaan, I respectfully dispute that "fact" and I'm not sure if I posted the detailed chronological events of those early days on ISP, but the crowds were mobilized and on the streets in large numbers with clashes taking place, hours before Mousavi even released a statement.

The real opposition figures were not and are not outside Iran - they were inside Iran. This had been planned long before the elections and Sepah was issuing statements more than a month before the election predicting exactly what happened and promising a reponse. At that point, Mousavi and Karroubi had said nothing and were working within the boundaries of the regime, as they did throughout the entire fiasco.

It wasn't the people who rallied behind these two characters, it was these two who rallied behind the people and tried to take charge of the situation. No opposition figure either inside or outside of Iran or in any other country in the last two decades did more damage to a genuine mass movement by the people than these two clowns.
Lets put it this way , if Musavi and Karoubi did not run as candidates and or did not claim the votes were rigged do you think people would of showed up on the streets and protested?
 
Jun 9, 2004
13,753
1
Canada
#12
^^^ Well, the people were on the street long before Mousavi and Karroubi made any claims that could even be interpreted as vote rigging. In fact, vote rigging was not their platform at all - it was the people's platform and they were already clashing with NE saying where's my vote. Don't you remember they requested a recount?! Why would you request a recount when you know the vote was rigged and the same people would be announcing the results?!

And to suggest that their mere candidacy did more for the revolution and led to the street protests would take a serious stretch of the imagination. I accept it as a valid perspective on the situation, but definitely not as a fact. But IMHO this thing was in the making long before the election, no matter who the candidates were. Mousavi was the excuse, not the means to the uprising.

The fact is that Mousavi and Karroubi played within the system before the elections and after the elections and their entire platform, based on their news releases was to save the system of VF, that's an undeniable fact based on their own words - not interpreting their intentions.
 

maziar95

Elite Member
Oct 20, 2002
2,285
63
39
Baltimore, MD
#13
^^^ Well, the people were on the street long before Mousavi and Karroubi made any claims that could even be interpreted as vote rigging. In fact, vote rigging was not their platform at all - it was the people's platform and they were already clashing with NE saying where's my vote. Don't you remember they requested a recount?! Why would you request a recount when you know the vote was rigged and the same people would be announcing the results?!

And to suggest that their mere candidacy did more for the revolution and led to the street protests would take a serious stretch of the imagination. I accept it as a valid perspective on the situation, but definitely not as a fact. But IMHO this thing was in the making long before the election, no matter who the candidates were. Mousavi was the excuse, not the means to the uprising.

The fact is that Mousavi and Karroubi played within the system before the elections and after the elections and their entire platform, based on their news releases was to save the system of VF, that's an undeniable fact based on their own words - not interpreting their intentions.
\
Are you suggesting Karoubi and Musavi never claimed the votes were rigged since they asked for a recount?
 

Flint

Legionnaire
Jan 28, 2006
7,016
0
United States
#14
The fact is that Mousavi and Karroubi played within the system before the elections and after the elections and their entire platform,
Precisely. No way the people in the streets just wanted a recount. Recount to put who in office? They wanted the whole system turned out, and for that Mousavi and Kahroubi were the worst ambassadors. Let me put this fantasy to rest that somebody will legally change the system. In fact, by definition changing the system legally is itself illegal, or something like that!
 

maziar95

Elite Member
Oct 20, 2002
2,285
63
39
Baltimore, MD
#15
^^^ Well, the people were on the street long before Mousavi and Karroubi made any claims that could even be interpreted as vote rigging. In fact, vote rigging was not their platform at all - it was the people's platform and they were already clashing with NE saying where's my vote. Don't you remember they requested a recount?! Why would you request a recount when you know the vote was rigged and the same people would be announcing the results?!

And to suggest that their mere candidacy did more for the revolution and led to the street protests would take a serious stretch of the imagination. I accept it as a valid perspective on the situation, but definitely not as a fact. But IMHO this thing was in the making long before the election, no matter who the candidates were. Mousavi was the excuse, not the means to the uprising.

The fact is that Mousavi and Karroubi played within the system before the elections and after the elections and their entire platform, based on their news releases was to save the system of VF, that's an undeniable fact based on their own words - not interpreting their intentions.
Here is a article for 6/13 the same day the protests started , Musavi made an announcement early in the morning about the votes being rigged , this is before people started coming out in masses . Also on 6/12 Mussavi aides were reporting voting irregularities on polling stations across the country and then Musavi made an announcement that he won the elections because he knew AN was going to claim he won no matter what but a few minutes later after Mussavi made that announcement IRNA made announcement that AN won a landslide and then the next day Musavi claimed the votes were rigged and manipulated early in the morning.
The capital, Tehran, has seen its most violent street disturbances for a decade as demonstrators protested over Mr Ahmadinejad's surprise defeat of Mir-Hossein Mousavi, the reformist challenger.

Mr Mousavi claimed he had been the victim of "fraud" and "manipulation" after he gained just 33.7 per cent of the vote, compared to Mr Ahmadinejad's 62.6 per cent.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...t-at-Mahmoud-Ahmadinejads-rigged-victory.html
 

maziar95

Elite Member
Oct 20, 2002
2,285
63
39
Baltimore, MD
#16
Precisely. No way the people in the streets just wanted a recount. Recount to put who in office? They wanted the whole system turned out, and for that Mousavi and Kahroubi were the worst ambassadors. Let me put this fantasy to rest that somebody will legally change the system. In fact, by definition changing the system legally is itself illegal, or something like that!
In the early days of the protests people wanted a recount of the votes or annulling all the votes because of claims of vote rigging . If you remember during the first week of the protests people had signs “where is my vote” , they held silent protests , they never chanted any anti-regime slogans like death to dictator until later when the regime acted violent against the protestors . When Khamenini made that speech at the Friday prayers that’s when everything changed , because up to that point people were still hoping Khameini would actually listen to their protests but he did the exact opposite and people started protesting against the regime. Now if you were watching LA channels from the first day of the protests they were trying to paint a picture that the protests were against the system but that was absolutely BS
 
Oct 16, 2002
39,533
1,513
DarvAze DoolAb
www.iransportspress.com
#17
Both Mousavi and Karoubi directly and indirectly "claimed" to oppose Velayate Faghih after Khamenei's speech in support of AN.

It's not easy to determine their level of honesty/confidence, but it's a known fact that Mousavi and Khamenei DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT see eye-to-eye. Being cousins makes this even more interesting. By all accounts Khamenei is not well liked by his own family.

As Flint pointed out, it's illegal to oppose the system (punishable capitally). Mousavi, Karoubi and Khatami were members of a political party that was considered "legal". It wouldn't have made sense for them to abandon their party's constitution.

The fact is we have an extremely Bi-Khayeh nation. It doesn't matter who's in charge. The vast majority of Iranians are passive chickens. Mousavi and Karoubi knew this very well because they were members of the chicken-party themselves. I don't believe them to have been involved in a conspiracy in the regime's favor. They are/were indeed opposed to the whole system, but clearly saw the lack of risk-taking will in the population.

Some of you folks are quite out of touch with the street-realities of Iran. Baba, we have a huge population of youth with no balls. They have no understanding of the phrase "Hard work pays off". To them, hard work is for poor village people. Losing something to gain something else is not a part of their lifestyle. They want it ALL and they want it EASY. It'll never happen.
 

Hassan1980

Bench Warmer
Feb 17, 2008
1,835
0
#18
Some of you folks are quite out of touch with the street-realities of Iran. Baba, we have a huge population of youth with no balls. They have no understanding of the phrase "Hard work pays off"
Chasm. Youth of Iran will pick up Ak47's and start to fight the government in street to street fights. They will also start to paralyze the daily mechanics of the country and paralyze the daily lifes of the people. They will also pave the way for thousands of extremist foreigners to come into Iran and start the Jihadi nonesenses.
Yes dear
 
May 12, 2007
8,093
11
#19
Iranian people supported Mosavi and Karubi in hope of seeing part of Sepah join people. Since they know Sepah is too strong to fight against alone. Once Mosavi and Karubi were arrested and Rafsanjani too seemed to have no affect people accepted the defeat. Sepah is united against any thread from inside or outside.
If Obama is doing anything against Iran it is engaging Basij and sepah more and more in Syria and other places.
Mosavi or Karubi are not Iranians favourite president but I think Iranians would respect them for what they did during the movement. It wouldnot make any difference if they said this instead of that. They were arrested like a mice and no one could help them. Several years ago a political prissoner(whose name I don't remember) in Iran rejected any idea that this regime can be overthrown from within. I believe the only way posibble is that people shape groups of 5-7 identify and follow every member of basij or sepah.
 

Zob Ahan

Elite Member
Feb 4, 2005
17,476
2,231
#20
^^^ Well, the people were on the street long before Mousavi and Karroubi made any claims that could even be interpreted as vote rigging. In fact, vote rigging was not their platform at all - it was the people's platform and they were already clashing with NE saying where's my vote. Don't you remember they requested a recount?! Why would you request a recount when you know the vote was rigged and the same people would be announcing the results?!

And to suggest that their mere candidacy did more for the revolution and led to the street protests would take a serious stretch of the imagination. I accept it as a valid perspective on the situation, but definitely not as a fact. But IMHO this thing was in the making long before the election, no matter who the candidates were. Mousavi was the excuse, not the means to the uprising.

The fact is that Mousavi and Karroubi played within the system before the elections and after the elections and their entire platform, based on their news releases was to save the system of VF, that's an undeniable fact based on their own words - not interpreting their intentions.
Nobody came out until MHM said I am the winner. You and I don't like him because of his past but give credit where its due.